energy prices

[Gizmo]

6 hours ago, tightrope said:

Look, no offence but this is a forum for all to express their views. So regardless of expression, is there really as my need for personal insults? We are all entitled to our opinion. 👍

Truth isn't an insult. Especially when directed at an obvious troll with nothing but undisguised contempt for anyone not on their political wavelength.  


 

[Unknown user]

55 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I'm not dismissing it completely but big effect?  Not compared to the other factors.

 

All the guy said was that the pandemic and brexit need to be financed, seems pretty reasonable to me.

[FWJ]

Is it all working?

 

We’re (Europe) winding down buying Russian oil & gas (and they’re turning off the taps) - but is it hitting them financially?  God knows it’s hitting us.

 

Or are they just flogging it all to China, India etc instead, while we thrash about buying LNG from the US & Qatar.

[frankblack]

43 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

All the guy said was that the pandemic and brexit need to be financed, seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

Your view, perhaps but I find it tedious and irrelevant.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Your view, perhaps but I find it tedious and irrelevant.

Ah well, I'm sure you'll be back to your normal, effervescent self before long

[frankblack]

11 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Is it all working?

 

We’re (Europe) winding down buying Russian oil & gas (and they’re turning off the taps) - but is it hitting them financially?  God knows it’s hitting us.

 

Or are they just flogging it all to China, India etc instead, while we thrash about buying LNG from the US & Qatar.

 

I think we need a like for like comparison with countries across Europe to show the breakdown of the energy bills.

 

I would also like detailed analysis of the turnover of the energy firms to see if the prices are justified.  This means identifying if UK profits are being moved offshore and declared as losses.

 

I think we need to get enough rope to hang this zombie government and pitiful regulator.

[ri Alban]

11 hours ago, tightrope said:

*Look, no offence but this is a forum for all to express their views. So regardless of expression, is there really as my need for personal insults? We are all entitled to our opinion. 👍

*Nae offense, but this a forum for all to express their views. And that's his.  

 

 

Not mine, tho. 👍Yet.  sorry it is mine, I thought he was talking to you. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

17 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

It would of helped if we had stored gas as the Germans have as they're not getting whacked with anything like our increases .

The German ambassador was just speaking on LBC .

We've known since 2014 that Russia might be daft enough to invade Ukraine and we've prepared nothing .

Also  since 2012 we dramatically reduced funding to insulate homes which again has turned out to be a disaster .

Do you ever see any blame with the Tories ? 

 

David Cameron stopped government investment/subsidies into renewables anaw.

[ri Alban]

11 hours ago, indianajones said:

Riddled with windfarms up here. 

 

They are everywhere. How and why is the local community not getting free (or almost free) electricity? 

The national grid are robbing us and the government won't take control.

[ri Alban]

11 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

That would be fine if there weren't homicidal maniacs in charge of superpowers on our doorstep.

 

You need to have a lie down. Then seek specialist psychiatric help.

He's talking about Pakistan, not the UK. 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

The usual lazy crap you read on here.

 

Its all Brexit's fault for Putin invading Ukraine etc.  Tiresome nonsense.

You don't think Brexit is a problem? 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Section Q said:

The battle field that is Ukraine will continue to be backed by the west until the last man,"Ukrainian" is standing. The amount of money generated through this war is huge, and a convenient excuse for gas increases. No coincidence that power costs rise as we're buying electric cars. All part of the masterplan.....

The war started when the cap was lifted. You'd think the cap would have been pit back in place until after the Russian Brian fart. Tho I hope we have a good look at Ukraine after the war.

[frankblack]

59 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

He's talking about Pakistan, not the UK. 

 

I made a correction above when he pointed it out the context.  

 

I reacted to the conspiracy theory nonsense surrounding it.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

You don't think Brexit is a problem? 

 

There is too much noise from other issues like the fall out from the pandemic or Ukraine to tell.

[ri Alban]

It's not the correct thread, so I'll not really argue about Brexit. But to think that Putin hasn't been emboldened by the UK leaving the EU and it's anti EU rhetoric. You're having a laugh.

[ri Alban]

Millionaires like Alistair Jack getting his energy bills and all other costs paid for by the taxpayers. And that's on top of an £85,000 salary for doing diddly squat.

[ri Alban]

Amazing how they like to put all our money in a pot, when it suits them. They've swindled more money out of the taxpayers than they'll every contribute. 

[OBE]

15 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Pandemic yes.  Stop your bullshit with Brexit

 

9 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

The usual lazy crap you read on here.

 

Its all Brexit's fault for Putin invading Ukraine etc.  Tiresome nonsense.

 

You're familiar with faeces, your heads been up your arse too long...

 

 

 

[Dazo]

Just checked my account and Scottish power calculate my dd will need to be £497 a month. 
 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Just checked my account and Scottish power calculate my dd will need to be £497 a month. 
 

Crikey.

I thought I was paying a lot at £61.00(sixty one) pm.

[Dazo]

22 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Crikey.

I thought I was paying a lot at £61.00(sixty one) pm.

We pay just under £300 at the moment. We do have a decent surplus but I always prefer that going into the winter. 

[doctor jambo]

31 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Just checked my account and Scottish power calculate my dd will need to be £497 a month. 
 

Yeah, Shell have pegged mine at £482

[WorldChampions1902]

10 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Yeah, Shell have pegged mine at £482

Christ!
 

One thing’s for sure, there’s going to be an explosion in the number of U.K. debt collection agencies, if this Junta don’t introduce meaningful measures to alleviate this catastrophe.

[The Real Maroonblood]

25 minutes ago, Dazo said:

We pay just under £300 at the moment. We do have a decent surplus but I always prefer that going into the winter. 

I stay in a first floor flat with great insulation.

My present deal still has a year to run.

 

[indianajones]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I stay in a first floor flat with great insulation.

My present deal still has a year to run.

 

 

Thats some deal. 

 

I live in a small place too and i dont pay for heating. Just water heating, cooking and showering. Probably going to start showering at work now. 

 

They've got me at £140.

[doctor jambo]

39 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Christ!
 

One thing’s for sure, there’s going to be an explosion in the number of U.K. debt collection agencies, if this Junta don’t introduce meaningful measures to alleviate this catastrophe.

The thing that I am a bit confused about , is that they calculate it over 12 months, how can they do that when the price fluctuates so wildly?

anyways, I’m just going to pay on a month to month basis

[The Real Maroonblood]

47 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Thats some deal. 

 

I live in a small place too and i dont pay for heating. Just water heating, cooking and showering. Probably going to start showering at work now. 

 

They've got me at £140.

It is.

 

[frankblack]

2 hours ago, OBE said:

 

 

You're familiar with faeces, your heads been up your arse too long...

 

 

 

 

You are like a bairn that doesn't stop greetin because they lost a vote.   Get over yourself. 👍

[Jambo-Jimbo]

52 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The thing that I am a bit confused about , is that they calculate it over 12 months, how can they do that when the price fluctuates so wildly?

anyways, I’m just going to pay on a month to month basis

 

Your right, I said similar the other week, that when you get your new DD amount it's worked out for the next 12 months, which your provider knows is a pile of crap as they know the rates will change again in 3 months time, so yes you are better off just paying monthly when the bill comes in, or I don't see any reason why you can't ask for a refund of the excess you are paying every month, example say your DD is £350pm but your bill is only £290, I don't see any reason why they can refuse to return that £60 to you.

[The Mighty Thor]

BBC News - Energy bills: Liz Truss 'rules out' more direct help for all
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62703858

 

This will be interesting.

[The Real Maroonblood]

18 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

BBC News - Energy bills: Liz Truss 'rules out' more direct help for all
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62703858

 

This will be interesting.

According to the headline in today's Express there's a "Golden Future Ahead."

What a slavering erse.

[Victorian]

A source on his campaign team added: "Tory members will not like the sound of Liz Truss boosting welfare - once it goes up, it's hard to take back down.

"It also means the worst off this winter are hardworking families and pensioners on middle incomes, which are Conservative and swing voters. Truss's plan is a gift to Labour."

 

Jesus wept.  A meteor is about to hit the poorest and this cretin's reasoning is all about electability.

 

Also,  "the worst off" is NOT the middle income section.  They could be the ones getting less help.  But they still wont be "the worst off".  

 

What a hideous,  rancid mindset this is.

 

VAT cuts are risky.  It's dangerous to rely on a tax cut that is collected by businesses who can find ways to edge a bit more margin for themselves.  A lot of that money can be lost in profiteering.

 

Increasing personal allowance does **** all for most of the worst off.  

Edited August 28, 2022 by Victorian

[SwindonJambo]

15 minutes ago, Victorian said:

A source on his campaign team added: "Tory members will not like the sound of Liz Truss boosting welfare - once it goes up, it's hard to take back down.

"It also means the worst off this winter are hardworking families and pensioners on middle incomes, which are Conservative and swing voters. Truss's plan is a gift to Labour."

 

Jesus wept.  A meteor is about to hit the poorest and this cretin's reasoning is all about electability.

 

Also,  "the worst off" is NOT the middle income section.  They could be the ones getting less help.  But they still wont be "the worst off".  

 

What a hideous,  rancid mindset this is.

 

VAT cuts are risky.  It's dangerous to rely on a tax cut that is collected by businesses who can find ways to edge a bit more margin for themselves.  A lot of that money can be lost in profiteering.

 

Increasing personal allowance does **** all for most of the worst off.  

 

I think she’s going to be a catastrophic PM. I can’t stick Boris, but it looks like we’re going to be out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

She has shown herself to have poor judgment in her current role with her embarrassment of a meeting with Sergei Lavrov and this week’s ill judged comments about Macron. 

 

Her tax plans and energy price crisis plans  reek of total economic illiteracy. At a time of rampant inflation, firms collecting VAT will simply keep their prices the same and trouser the tax cut for themselves, just as the fuel companies largely did.

 

A lot of financially vulnerable and even middle income earners are going to crippled by energy price hyperinflation and she proposes tax cuts which will not help the poorest at all and put money in the pockets of the wealthy who do not need it. Even Sunak is saying help needs to be targeted.

 

The next election must take place by January 2025 and she’s handing it to Labour on a plate at this rate. I fully expect the Tories to bin from within before we get there. Styles herself as the 2nd coming of Thatcher yet Thatcher probably wouldn’t let her carry her handbag. She is quite simply not equal to the task or anywhere close and as her glaring multiple inadequacies become very obvious, she will come under intense pressure very quickly.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I think she’s going to be a catastrophic PM. I can’t stick Boris, but it looks like we’re going to be out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

She has shown herself to have poor judgment in her current role with her embarrassment of a meeting with Sergei Lavrov and this week’s ill judged comments about Macron. 

 

Her tax plans and energy price crisis plans  reek of total economic illiteracy. At a time of rampant inflation, firms collecting VAT will simply keep their prices the same and trouser the tax cut for themselves, just as the fuel companies largely did.

 

A lot of financially vulnerable and even middle income earners are going to crippled by energy price hyperinflation and she proposes tax cuts which will not help the poorest at all and put money in the pockets of the wealthy who do not need it. Even Sunak is saying help needs to be targeted.

 

The next election must take place by January 2025 and she’s handing it to Labour on a plate at this rate. I fully expect the Tories to bin from within before we get there. Styles herself as the 2nd coming of Thatcher yet Thatcher probably wouldn’t let her carry her handbag. She is quite simply not equal to the task or anywhere close and as her glaring multiple inadequacies become very obvious, she will come under intense pressure very quickly.

 

Rules out universal help... ponders raise to personal allowance.

 

 

It's more or less policies put in a blender.  

[SwindonJambo]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Rules out universal help... ponders raise to personal allowance.

 

 

It's more or less policies put in a blender.  

Increases in personal allowance can look impressive but it only benefits taxpayers to the tune of 20% of whatever they go up by. She talks of increasing benefits for those who do not pay tax. Both of those measures will be hard to take away later, once energy prices return to normal.  

 

Sunak Proposed targeted help for however long the crisis lasts. I don’t like him but he at least understands economics and I’d take him over Truss in a heartbeat. Given the demographic of the Tory Membership, I.e mostly wealthy white pensioners, you have to suspect his colour plays some part in their preferences but that’s a whole other debate.

 

Truss might have gone to Oxford but the woman is an idiot. An absolutely stupid blundering embarassment of a woman  with piss poor judgement and diminished empathy. 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Increases in personal allowance can look impressive but it only benefits taxpayers to the tune of 20% of whatever they go up by. She talks of increasing benefits for those who do not pay tax. Both of those measures will be hard to take away later, once energy prices return to normal.  

 

Sunak Proposed targeted help for however long the crisis lasts. I don’t like him but he at least understands economics and I’d take him over Truss in a heartbeat. Given the demographic of the Tory Membership, I.e mostly wealthy white pensioners, you have to suspect his colour plays some part in their preferences but that’s a whole other debate.

 

Truss might have gone to Oxford but the woman is an idiot. An absolutely stupid blundering embarassment of a woman  with piss poor judgement and diminished empathy. 

 

The allowance hike is wasted support money.  Anything that goes to people who will be able to afford the essentials is pissing it up a wall.  Every pound needs to go to the bottom and then work up a bit if there's more to come.

 

If they're now trying trying to create a bogus belief that benefits increases are hard to reverse then it's a blatant lie.  They were uprated for covid and then reversed.

[Victorian]

In addition..

 

Why is it even a bad thing for some benefits to stay at a higher level?  I know that there needs to be an element of incentivising coming off benefits but the general level of benefits is already too low to provide a living income.  Why not give more because it enables real economy spending without representing an input cost,  therefore less inflationary than some wage rises.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

Her tax plans and energy price crisis plans  reek of total economic illiteracy. At a time of rampant inflation, firms collecting VAT will simply keep their prices the same and trouser the tax cut for themselves, just as the fuel companies largely did.

 

A lot of financially vulnerable and even middle income earners are going to crippled by energy price hyperinflation and she proposes tax cuts which will not help the poorest at all and put money in the pockets of the wealthy who do not need it. Even Sunak is saying help needs to be targeted.

 

 

 

Imo if she goes ahead and cuts VAT by 5% across the board, it only benefits those who'll have money to spend and not the vast majority of ordinary people who'll have little to no disposable cash.  The 5% VAT reduction on energy bills will equate to around about £160 per year, which will probably be about half off most people's monthly DD for one month, the saving of about £13 pm won't even touch the sides of most people's bills.

 

I really do believe that Truss hasn't got a clue.

[ri Alban]

Scrap tax up to the first £25000.

[The Mighty Thor]

Cap the energy cost at Oct 21 levels & an inflationary increase. 

 

It's still the quickest way out of all the shit heading down the pipe. 

 

 

[Footballfirst]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Scrap tax up to the first £25000.

The lower earners will not get the full benefit of such an increase while the highest earners still get the full benefit.

 

If you want a tax change, then increase the 45%/46% top rate to 50% 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Footballfirst

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Cap the energy cost at Oct 21 levels & an inflationary increase. 

 

It's still the quickest way out of all the shit heading down the pipe. 

 

 

 

Ideally yes.  Price cap and state backed energy mortgage over 30 years.  Or full nationalisation of the UK's energy generation and market.

 

Neither is going to happen under the Tories.  It's tantamount to accepting that a perceived socialist policy has rescued the country.  Tories finished.

 

They'll try to blunder on with a mix of policies they claim are of Conservative ethos,  plus some direct support.  It wont be enough and there will be big trouble.  Kicked out at the next election but will claim they were on the right track.  Tories live to fight another day.

[SwindonJambo]

8 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Imo if she goes ahead and cuts VAT by 5% across the board, it only benefits those who'll have money to spend and not the vast majority of ordinary people who'll have little to no disposable cash.  The 5% VAT reduction on energy bills will equate to around about £160 per year, which will probably be about half off most people's monthly DD for one month, the saving of about £13 pm won't even touch the sides of most people's bills.

 

I really do believe that Truss hasn't got a clue.

 

That sentence is equally applicable to her current post let alone her likely next one. The thing about being a 2nd string is that while clanging faux pas are made, as she has, as long her her boss likes her, they’re swept under the carpet and she gets away with it. 

 

Moving to the top job is a whole different ball game though. When the buck stops with her, The public scrutiny will be so much more intense and she’ll have nowhere to hide. Her many failings will quickly be exposed and she could easily be the shortest serving PM since Alex Douglas-Home in 1963-4! I predict she’ll be toppled from within.

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The lower earners will not get the full benefit of such an increase while the highest earners still get the full benefit.

 

If you want a tax change, then increase the 45%/46% top rate to 50% 

It would give me about £90 extra a week. So bring it on.

 

[SwindonJambo]

8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The lower earners will not get the full benefit of such an increase while the highest earners still get the full benefit.

 

If you want a tax change, then increase the 45%/46% top rate to 50% 

They tried that not so long ago and It hardly raised any extra tax receipts.

[Victorian]

You can use PAYE to reverse the flow of money,  a bit like furlough.  Perhaps something devised to provide negative tax pounds to the very lowest earners who are already under the NIC and personal allowance thresholds.  

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

That sentence is equally applicable to her current post let alone her likely next one. The thing about being a 2nd string is that while clanging faux pas are made, as she has, as long her her boss likes her, they’re swept under the carpet and she gets away with it. 

 

Moving to the top job is a whole different ball game though. When the buck stops with her, The public scrutiny will be so much more intense and she’ll have nowhere to hide. Her many failings will quickly be exposed and she could easily be the shortest serving PM since Alex Douglas-Home in 1963-4! I predict she’ll be toppled from within.

 

Exactly, that's another reason why I think she doesn't have a clue.

[dobmisterdobster]

44 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Ideally yes.  Price cap and state backed energy mortgage over 30 years.  Or full nationalisation of the UK's energy generation and market.

 

Neither is going to happen under the Tories.  It's tantamount to accepting that a perceived socialist policy has rescued the country.  Tories finished.

 

They'll try to blunder on with a mix of policies they claim are of Conservative ethos,  plus some direct support.  It wont be enough and there will be big trouble.  Kicked out at the next election but will claim they were on the right track.  Tories live to fight another day.

 

A price cap is an unforgivable waste of money. Not really a socialist or progressive policy. It's tantamount to corporate welfare.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

A price cap is an unforgivable waste of money. Not really a socialist or progressive policy. It's tantamount to corporate welfare.

A price cap doesn't waste money as its not government backed. It limits what distributors and generators can charge. 

 

There's currently an incredible heist going on. There's a big honey pot of public funds thst these greedy shitehawks think they're going to get their hands on. 

 

**** them. Bankrupt the greedy kants. 

[Victorian]

11 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

A price cap is an unforgivable waste of money. Not really a socialist or progressive policy. It's tantamount to corporate welfare.

 

No it isn't.  It would represent a type of deferred mortgage,  repayable over 30 years after the market has stabilised,  with a very small amount of interest if absolutely necessary.  It isn't welfare of any conceivable sort.  It would also be directly anti-inflationary,  which in turn contributes to economic growth / less economic recession.  It would be an investment.

 

The Tories wibble about economic growth.  They're only interested in economic growth they can attribute to Conservative ideology.  Successful economic growth policy borne out of someone else's ideology isn't welcome.  Because it's all about retention of power and protection of the Conservative free market model.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Victorian