energy prices

[ri Alban]

6 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Does this cover you then?

 

"But those using traditional or "non-smart" pre-payment devices will instead receive a discount voucher in the first week of each month, either via text, email or in the post. Homeowners will then need to redeem these in person at their usual top-up point".

👍Cheers bud. Voucher not token

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

See this £400 , will that go to me or my landlord?

 

This should tell you how it'll be paid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62338543

[Victorian]

Truss's mutterings today suggest options are open towards more direct support.  I don't think there's any doubt that it's inevitable.  But she wont say so and wont provide any details.  Why? Because it doesn't massage the inhumane ideology of the scumbags in the party vote.  

 

More fantasies about tax cuts and creating economic growth to come.  The mugs who hang on every word will lap it up.  What they wont get is exactly the thing they're happy to be deceived about.  She'll probably land on roughly the same area as Sunak would have,  plus some margin tinkering tax cuts to fulfill the tax cut deception.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

25 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Truss's mutterings today suggest options are open towards more direct support.  I don't think there's any doubt that it's inevitable.  But she wont say so and wont provide any details.  Why? Because it doesn't massage the inhumane ideology of the scumbags in the party vote.  

 

More fantasies about tax cuts and creating economic growth to come.  The mugs who hang on every word will lap it up.  What they wont get is exactly the thing they're happy to be deceived about.  She'll probably land on roughly the same area as Sunak would have,  plus some margin tinkering tax cuts to fulfill the tax cut deception.

 

Nose picking IBS was getting his arse handed to him by Eddie Mair this evening as he was trotting out the Truss-o-nomics

Like all their bullshit it just evaporates on contact with reality 

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Nose picking IBS was getting his arse handed to him by Eddie Mair this evening as he was trotting out the Truss-o-nomics

Like all their bullshit it just evaporates on contact with reality 

 

Well whoever is advising the Truss campaign is certainly concentrating on a particular perception of the supposed Conservative method of dealing with the problem at hand.  Pushing the right buttons.  Repeating the right buzz words and phrases.  Hawking around the favourable image of an economic philosophy that's actually obsolete in reality.  They certainly know their target audience.  

 

Such a shame that the target audience wont be getting what it says on the tin.  It would be interesting to learn how many of them will notice.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/10/tax-profits-freeze-energy-prices-bring-suppliers-into-public-sector-gordon-brown#comments
 

Say what you will about Gordon Brown (and I always quite liked him) but he’s right about this. Nobody in parliament has the stones though 

[Captain Sausage]

47 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/10/tax-profits-freeze-energy-prices-bring-suppliers-into-public-sector-gordon-brown#comments
 

Say what you will about Gordon Brown (and I always quite liked him) but he’s right about this. Nobody in parliament has the stones though 

Solid piece from a competent man. 
 

This whole situation is staggering. Mortgage rate rises combined with insane energy cost increases and spiralling inflation on an unprecedented scale. 
 

And a government posted missing. Johnson and his cronies should be up in court on gross negligence charges. 
 

I think the only solution in the short term is a strict windfall tax for producers and distributors alike and government payment of all costs above the current cap for all households. If we could do it for covid, we can do it now. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

I did see petrol at £1.59 for unleaded at Costco while Diesel was £1.74.

Still expensive but a fair bit cheaper than it was.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

Resy easy boys and girls some Tory Minister, see post above has confirmed that the heads of the energy companies have been "hauled into a meeting" to explain the high profits.  What he means they were asked nicely to attend a chat over coffee to discuss best process of getting the kick backs to the off shore accounts of the elite.  Hauled in, aye right.

 

Heard the meeting would have been sooner but the energy company bosses were holding out for chocolate biscuits, whereas the government were only offering rich tea.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Jambo-Jimbo

[fabienleclerq]

6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

 

 Staggering. 

 

They still don't get it.

 

They remind me of the oxfam adverts of give a man a fish he will feed his family for a day. We don't need hand outs we need the energy prices brought under control and the obscene profits used to do so.

[Jambo_jim2001]

Won't be long till they run advertising in Africa to help us😳 I wonder how much money is hidden overseas instead of getting reinvested into our economy 🤔

[Pans Jambo]

8 hours ago, Victorian said:

Let us amplify once more...

 

These companies have always made profits,  which is good.  That's how the economy works.  But these companies currently generate excess profits via market forces on the unit price.  These are windfall profits that require to be subjected to suitable taxation in order to finance the government to provide financial support to the people worst affected by the market price.

 

Wonder if we're getting through.

Private companies make huge profits off the back of the piblic. 
 

Support is paid out to the public from the public purse. 
 

Its the tory way. 

[OTT]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 Staggering. 

 

They still don't get it.

 

They remind me of the oxfam adverts of give a man a fish he will feed his family for a day. We don't need hand outs we need the energy prices brought under control and the obscene profits used to do so.

 

Of course they don't. They're all extremely wealthy and used to using the tax payers dime as an expense account. 

 

The people are being utterly failed by this shower of shit. 

[ArcticJambo]

2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I did see petrol at £1.59 for unleaded at Costco while Diesel was £1.74.

Still expensive but a fair bit cheaper than it was.

Morrisons, Dundee 169.9, yesterday. Cheapest I've see it this week out and about.

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I did see petrol at £1.59 for unleaded at Costco while Diesel was £1.74.

Still expensive but a fair bit cheaper than it was.

Mal, please don't fall into this mindset, that's exactly what they want. It needs to go down to 120p at least, not accepting a new norm of 160p.

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

This should tell you how it'll be paid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62338543

👍.

 

My only concern is it will be sent to my landlord. I pay the bills, not them, so it should come to us. 

[ri Alban]

UK government support package £15b/€18b.

 

Germany €60b

Italy €50

France €45b

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

👍.

 

My only concern is it will be sent to my landlord. I pay the bills, not them, so it should come to us. 

Unless they had a pp meter it'd be useless to them, even then it'd be credited to your account and it'd be traceable when it had been redeemed etc. You'll get it.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

Unless they had a pp meter it'd be useless to them, even then it'd be credited to your account and it'd be traceable when it had been redeemed etc. You'll get it.

[That thing you do]

13 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

Resy easy boys and girls some Tory Minister, see post above has confirmed that the heads of the energy companies have been "hauled into a meeting" to explain the high profits.  What he means they were asked nicely to attend a chat over coffee to discuss best process of getting the kick backs to the off shore accounts of the elite.  Hauled in, aye right.

Sounds about right.

 

 

[That thing you do]

7 hours ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

Won't be long till they run advertising in Africa to help us😳 I wonder how much money is hidden overseas instead of getting reinvested into our economy 🤔

Alot. This was always the real reason for Brexit. Avoid EU disclosure laws coming in.

 

Farage plays the villian and drums up the anti EU vote all the while applying and getting a german passport through his wife.

 

Rees Mogg, panto villian 2, also has his businesses move their EU registration. 

 

They lost nothing. The rest of us our rights to live and work in 27 countries and to be protected from worst excesses of a shameless tory regime

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Mal, please don't fall into this mindset, that's exactly what they want. It needs to go down to 120p at least, not accepting a new norm of 160p.

Dream on! Russia produces 10% of oil output and that is under sanction. Oil producers can't fill that gap even if they wanted to.

[The Mighty Thor]

 

[periodictabledancer]

31 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Dream on! Russia produces 10% of oil output and that is under sanction. Oil producers can't fill that gap even if they wanted to.

The report from the US mentioned in the Ukraine war thread suggests otherwise. It mentions Saudi reluctance to do so ( not clear if that is still/ actually the case) but it can be done . It also mentions Qatar , Australia and Algeria in relation to alternate gas supplies. The US also used it's own vast domestic supplies on a temp basis to reduce demand and lower prices . Russia is a minnow in terms of oil production in global terms. What we need to know is what the west plans to do for the longer term because there doesn't seem to be any plan and the current situation isn't sustainable beyond this winter. 

[ri Alban]

43 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Dream on! Russia produces 10% of oil output and that is under sanction. Oil producers can't fill that gap even if they wanted to.

90% comes from elsewhere.

[theAlvasection]

2.8 days of energy for £50 in January is the latest estimate from Utilita.

Edited August 11, 2022 by theAlvasection

[The Mighty Thor]

25 minutes ago, theAlvasection said:

2.8 days of energy for £50 in January is the latest estimate from Utilita.

The boss of Utilita was on the radio earlier saying (to paraphrase) that the government should be pumping money into maintaining his profits

[Konrad von Carstein]

20 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

I can't remember who said it, but to vote Tory, you either need a six figure bank balance, or a single digit IQ. 

Wonder what category MAI105 falls into 🤔🫢

 

Joking MIA 😉

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Wonder what category MAI105 falls into 🤔🫢

 

Joking MIA 😉

[Victorian]

Truss has got £8bn to give back though.  The NIC rate increase is being reversed.  

 

What she wont say is that £6.8bn of that goes back to the top half of earners.  But the top half knows.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Powerful stuff 

[JudyJudyJudy]

I didn’t know he was in Edinburgh

He’s been right all

along 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I didn’t know he was in Edinburgh

He’s been right all

along 

 

 

 

I can't believe he was an option and people chose the alternative. I've developed a real disdain for the UK populace over the last 8 years or so. 

 

I guess I'm free to move somewhere else if I don't like it rather than bump my gums I suppose.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

11 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

Solid piece from a competent man. 
 

This whole situation is staggering. Mortgage rate rises combined with insane energy cost increases and spiralling inflation on an unprecedented scale. 
 

And a government posted missing. Johnson and his cronies should be up in court on gross negligence charges. 
 

I think the only solution in the short term is a strict windfall tax for producers and distributors alike and government payment of all costs above the current cap for all households. If we could do it for covid, we can do it now. 

Add to this the fact that while everyone is getting more and more skint, house prices are getting more and more out of control. It makes no sense.

 

Government (if different colours to be fair) has let us down on so many fronts - the economy, the housing market, renewable energy, travel infrastructure, the lot. On the big issues, they’re ****ing nowhere - mainly because they’re too busy scheming and playing party politics.

 

Truss doesn’t give a feck about people on London estates. She only cares about her ego and her ambition 

[hmfc_liam06]

Probably an overly simplistic way of looking at it but during lockdown the government appeared like they couldn’t give money away quick enough. Businesses issued with £10k council grants literally overnight, furlough and then support schemes with businesses being handed out 6 figure sums.

 

Yet now, in a proper living crisis, we’re handed £400 and told to get on with it and there’ll be no more hand outs.

 

Something just is not right.

[SectionDJambo]

Never mind.

The energy companies are being "hauled in" to see a couple of government ministers today. Two of the gang who were happy to appear on tv defending Johnson for months, allowing themselves to be ridiculed. Real heavyweights.

I'm fairly sure the energy company representatives will enjoy a wee cuppa and a cosy chat, with a press release which won't tell us much.

Meanwhile, our current PM is relaxing and going through his bucket list, whilst still taking his salary. 

[Harry Potter]

21 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Never mind.

The energy companies are being "hauled in" to see a couple of government ministers today. Two of the gang who were happy to appear on tv defending Johnson for months, allowing themselves to be ridiculed. Real heavyweights.

I'm fairly sure the energy company representatives will enjoy a wee cuppa and a cosy chat, with a press release which won't tell us much.

Meanwhile, our current PM is relaxing and going through his bucket list, whilst still taking his salary. 

Nothing will change.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Harry Potter

[Malinga the Swinga]

6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Mal, please don't fall into this mindset, that's exactly what they want. It needs to go down to 120p at least, not accepting a new norm of 160p.

No, I agree that it has still to come down more. Just pointing out prices in case anyone looking for cheaper petrol than big chains 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Not sticking up for Boris but folk could not wait to see the back of him and now moaning because hes not there for them.

The other MPs should be taking over and doing the job, but seems that is not the case, beyond me, hopeless the lot o them.

 

There's only one prime minister and he's getting paid plenty to do the job - it's his responsibility.

 

A good man would beast the job until leaving office, knowing he can chill as much as he wants then.

[Section Q]

20 hours ago, Victorian said:

Let us amplify once more...

 

These companies have always made profits,  which is good.  That's how the economy works.  But these companies currently generate excess profits via market forces on the unit price.  These are windfall profits that require to be subjected to suitable taxation in order to finance the government to provide financial support to the people worst affected by the market price.

 

Wonder if we're getting through.

Profits should be re-invested into essential services and not taken out of the country by some company registered in the Caymans..... fact....!

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I didn’t know he was in Edinburgh

He’s been right all

along 

 

 

Public ownership is radical ? 😂

[Don Dan]

Energy bills could soar even higher than expected to more than £5,000 next year, experts have warned, as industry bosses will be told to explain their profits and payouts to ministers.

Ofgem could be forced to raise the price cap to £5,038 in April — more than £200 above previous estimates — according to the energy consultancy Auxilione, with bills hitting £4,467 in January.

Because their prediction was based on wholesale market figures, Auxilione said there was little energy companies could do to try to bring prices down and said there was “little appreciation [of] just how impossible that task is”.

However, Nadhim Zahawi, the chancellor, and Kwasi Kwarteng, the business secretary, are set to meet energy bosses today and will tell them the government expects them to invest record profits in green energy and gas production to help deliver lower bills.

Energy bills could top £5,000 by April as ministers hold crisis talks with industry

August 11 2022, The Times

Energy bills could soar even higher than expected to more than £5,000 next year, experts have warned, as industry bosses will be told to explain their profits and payouts to ministers.

Ofgem could be forced to raise the price cap to £5,038 in April — more than £200 above previous estimates — according to the energy consultancy Auxilione, with bills hitting £4,467 in January.

Because their prediction was based on wholesale market figures, Auxilione said there was little energy companies could do to try to bring prices down and said there was “little appreciation [of] just how impossible that task is”.

However, Nadhim Zahawi, the chancellor, and Kwasi Kwarteng, the business secretary, are set to meet energy bosses today and will tell them the government expects them to invest record profits in green energy and gas production to help deliver lower bills.

Before the meeting, Zahawi said: “They haven’t changed anything they’re doing, they haven’t had any increase in their input costs at all, but they’re getting a much higher return because of the unusually high gas price because of Putin.”

But Gordon Brown, the former Labour prime minister, has urged ministers and leadership candidates to go further and temporarily re-nationalise firms which do not work to lower bills.

Writing in The Guardian, Brown warned: “Time and tide wait for no one. Neither do crises. They don’t take holidays, and don’t politely hang fire — certainly not to suit the convenience of a departing PM and the whims of two potential successors.”

And he said Boris Johnson, Zahawi, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak should hold an “urgent” summit, a move ruled out by Truss.

Brown said the four could suspend and “fundamentally reform” the price cap, agree to more financial support in October, identify more supplies abroad and more storage in the UK, and agree on voluntary energy reductions.

But he also suggested that the government could bring into public ownership “as a last resort” companies who do not provide social tariffs dictated by “what people can afford”.

Brown suggested his proposals could be paid for “with a watertight windfall tax on energy companies and a tax of the high levels of City bonus payments”.

The government introduced a windfall tax in May, which is expected to raise around £5 billion.

But extending that was not expected to be on the table in discussions with Zahawi and Kwarteng today, with both ministers being instinctively against the measure.

However, it could still be an option if company chiefs do not make investment progress.

Mark Spencer, the Commons leader who is backing Sunak, told Times Radio he would not rule it out.

He said: “I’m certainly not a huge fan of big taxes, but at the same time, we’ve got to try and help people through this through this crisis. So it’s not something I would rule out at this moment in time.”

Spencer said: “I think we need everyone to be putting their shoulder to the wheel, including those energy producers and energy companies to try and assist with this global challenge we face.”

He said the companies were in a “hugely privileged position of controlling and having huge influence over a marketplace”.

He added: “And we need to work with them, alongside them to make sure that they’ve got the cash to invest in the future so that we can see energy prices come down in the long and medium term, but at the same time, you know, not to exploit hard-working people around the country.”

Truss backers have previously said she does not support a further windfall tax.

Sir Iain Duncan Smith, the former Tory leader who is backing the foreign secretary, said it would not be appropriate for her to be part of discussions with Johnson and Sunak, or with energy companies.

“She’s in a campaign and it would be quite wrong for her to try and adjust things in accordance to what would suit her,” he told Times Radio.

“But what obviously we want from the government is that the government gets the idea of what the problem is, to what degree, how much therefore — if there is requirement — how much would be required? How much of that would be offset as a result of the tax reduction policy that Liz has? And finally, that key point, who will need the money most?”

There has been widespread anger at Shell, BP and British Gas owner Centrica announcing bumper financial results while households struggle with soaring bills.

During the meeting in Downing Street today, bosses will be asked to submit a breakdown of expected profits and payouts, as well as investment plans for the next three years.

Zahawi said: “I think it’s important we all get round the table, I will continue to do the work I need to do as chancellor, but I also want to challenge them, to say are you making the investment? How can you help your customers? What more can we do together? That’s the reason for the meeting.”

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Times Money Mentor

The Government’s and I include the Scottish government in this need to review their power generation strategy now and in the future. Fracking for example needs to be reviewed to easy the supply of Gas. 
smaller nuclear plants that are quicker and cheaper to build need to be started now both these need to be done with sensitivity to locals and the environment and the costs  or part there of should be covered from the obscene profits made by the energy companies. No time to dilly dally and pontificate about especially for political reasons just get on and do it. At the same time other forms of natural generation need to be pursued to readdress the balance of our supply. A restarting of grants for PV panels,  insulation etc and more efficient heating and cooling need to be looked at with urgency. Tea and biscuits and how are my shares doing will not solve this crisis. 
it’s all about rising prices but I’m not hearing  any concrete  plans to combat it. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Imaman

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

No, I agree that it has still to come down more. Just pointing out prices in case anyone looking for cheaper petrol than big chains 

👍

[Don Dan]

So no results from the meeting. But but the profits will be decreased. 

[doctor jambo]

5 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

I can't believe he was an option and people chose the alternative. I've developed a real disdain for the UK populace over the last 8 years or so. 

 

I guess I'm free to move somewhere else if I don't like it rather than bump my gums I suppose.

SNP taking all the solid labour seats , leaving the UK stuck with the conservatives didn’t help …..kind of ironic that they moan about the tories yet are holding them in power

[Don Dan]

34 minutes ago, Imaman said:

So no results from the meeting. But but the profits will be decreased. 

They are all counting the money Big bonuses and more tax and vat for the government

[Dean Winchester]

46 minutes ago, Imaman said:

But but the profits will be decreased. 

Where did you read that?  

 

All that nonsense about him wanting to stay on as caretaker and the main thing that needs serious attention from the Government right now he's kicking the can down the road to his successor.

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

SNP taking all the solid labour seats , leaving the UK stuck with the conservatives didn’t help …..kind of ironic that they moan about the tories yet are holding them in power

 

It's the English electorate doing that, every voter in Scotland could turn out for Labour, we'd still have a Tory government.

[The Old Tolbooth]

40+ members of the House of Lords have investments or senior roles at oil & gas companies

 

Shell earnings: nearly £10bn from April-June

 

23 peers own shares in Shell

 

Their investments increased by at least £640,000 in the last six months

 

And people wonder why they're doing absolutely hee haw about it... 

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

40+ members of the House of Lords have investments or senior roles at oil & gas companies

 

Shell earnings: nearly £10bn from April-June

 

23 peers own shares in Shell

 

Their investments increased by at least £640,000 in the last six months

 

And people wonder why they're doing absolutely hee haw about it... 

Indeed there will be NO government interference in pricing whilst this exists.