Festive Fixtures - supporters return from 17/1 (updated )

[hughesie27]

Just now, hearts00 said:

Ooooh the “conspiracy theory line”.  

 

Here’s the facts

 

The virus even before vaccination killed less than 1% of people that tested positive. Due to the dodgy way deaths are recorded plus the fact that many many people had it but didnt test and lived means it is much less than 1%. 
 

The average age of someone dying in the UK is still close to 80. 

 

Omicron is clearly by all available data less severe than Delta. And we dont need much data to know this, just like all of history. Vaccines mutate, become more transmissable but become far less deadly over time. 
 

There is zero medical purpose or science behind covid passports. 
 

The need for endless boosters is questionable and there is at least equal harm to an under 18 year old of taking the vaccines vs. Catching covid. 
 

Covid was over from the moment people had ample time to get the second vaccine. If people choose not to it is up to them. 
 

Boris and Sturgeon have zero business now interfering with businesses and people’s lives. 

And this.

[JimmyCant]

10 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Doncaster is an arse but he’s hamstrung as he’s under contract with SKY to show these games on the scheduled dates - why are people not getting this! 🤷‍♂️

So that covers games that Sky are scheduled to show. What about the non TV games ?

[Mister Dee]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

How many lives are these new measures going to save?

how many would it take for the decision to be acceptable to you? 

[soonbe110]

29 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

If all cases reported since the beginning of December were Omicron then your argument would stand up. Delta was still the prominent variant until Friday.

 

I put up an illustration of the progression/doubling of the Omicron Variant on the Covid thread in the Shed, but it is worth repeating here to aid understanding.  The reported figures suggest that Delta cases are stable (R no = 1) and that the recent increase is driven by Omicron (R no >3).

 

Day 1 10,000 cases (9900 Delta, 100 Omicron)

Day 3 10,100 cases (9900 Delta, 200 Omicron)

Day 5 10,300 cases (9900 Delta, 400 Omicron)

Day 7 10,700 cases (9900 Delta, 800 Omicron)

Day 9 11,500 cases (9900 Delta, 1600 Omicron)

Day 11 13,100 cases (9900 Delta, 3200 Omicron)

Day 13 16,300 cases (9900 Delta, 6400 Omicron)

Day 15 22,700 cases (9900 Delta, 12,800 Omicron)

 

The above example shows the total number of cases doubling over two weeks, but with Omicron doubling every two days.  Without mitigating actions that doubling would lead to an exponential increase in case numbers.  The guidelines that have announced before today may already have slowed that increase as parties and events have been cancelled.

 

Stronger restrictions as announced today should also slow the rate of increase going forward.

 

That's the theory, lets hope it works in practice. 

Unfortunately they haven’t really got the accurate numbers and have been saying since the start of omicron that they believe there’s been much more of it than is being indented and/or reported.  That makes the 14 days possibly much closer than the current ‘guessed’ two  to three days. In total we have been in the 3-6k  per day range for the last three weeks. 

[Nookie Bear]

10 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Doncaster is an arse but he’s hamstrung as he’s under contract with SKY to show these games on the scheduled dates - why are people not getting this! 🤷‍♂️

 

With all due repect, SKY do not pay nearly enough to have that kind of influence on our game.

 

Bring the break forward. It may not give us enough time but it will be something for the benefit of the supporters and may allow them to attend in 3 weeks.

 

It should at least be on the table.

[hughesie27]

2 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

People need to get to games. If you went by % of capacity then you'd have 1000s still on public transport, supporters buses, pubs etc in Glasgow and Edinburgh every week.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Just now, JamboBoy said:

So why have any of us bothered to get jabs? The whole thing is a complete farce. We are being controlled and not allowed to make our own decisions on anything any more?

Thats what rips my tights,  We have had 3 jabs, so what was the point, we cant live, we have to stay in doors.  We used to have people still turning up to work with the flu.  South africa has 23% of its population vacinated, Hospitalisations down 40% in a week, natural imunity is working.  Overkill over here. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

I have done every single thing required - been proactive in getting vaccinated and boosted so that I got them earlier than I would have had I waited on letters.

 

But I think this latest move is starting to stink. Propaganda and people who have experienced control getting far too friendly with it. 
 

A SAGE member effectively admitted that they only provide models of worse case scenarios in their reports and those are the basis on which decisions are made - even though best case scenarios can be just as if not more likely. 
 

And these models are like trying to predict how many points Hearts will get from the next 5 games.

 

I’m sorry to say but we are being played like fiddles now.

 

Ive had covid and it was shit.

 

But in the last two years my mental health has cracked, my alcohol intake increased a chunk and my weight increased by a couple of stones. I don’t feel particularly protected any more.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[InternationalJambo]

4 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

And this.

I’m intrigued to know where you think the poster is wrong there and why? 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

Just now, Hagar the Horrible said:

Thats what rips my tights,  We have had 3 jabs, so what was the point, we cant live, we have to stay in doors.  We used to have people still turning up to work with the flu.  South africa has 23% of its population vacinated, Hospitalisations down 40% in a week, natural imunity is working.  Overkill over here. 

spot on

[Thomaso]

12 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

They could postpone all other fixtures though. 

The SPFL may feel that gives an unfair sporting advantage/disadvantage to some teams.

[soonbe110]

25 minutes ago, Diego10 said:

I'm pretty sure he meant positive test rate percentage.  Which is not affected by the number of tests

What is positive test rate percentage then?  How is it calculated ? 

[Mister Dee]

5 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I don't think that attitude is helpful. Plenty people struggle with mental health issues, especially around Christmas and football is an outlet that provide relief. 

 

There are too many covid nutters on one side and too many self-righteous folk on the other. Learn some compassion and understanding that folk might have different problems than you do in life. 

I have plenty of compassion and have had my struggles during Covid. 
This is about helping the sick.  

[jr ewing]

8 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

Just looked at the LFT tests that the wife gets through her work produced by Zhejiang Orient Biotech based in guess where China hey ho the'll be making billions population of over 1 billion very few deaths hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Lockdown there has a whole different meaning. 

[Thomaso]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

So that covers games that Sky are scheduled to show. What about the non TV games ?

Answered that one

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

The SPFL may feel that gives an unfair sporting advantage/disadvantage to some teams.

Yes, will be interesting discussion. What do Rangers and Celtic want to happen to benefit their brand best?

[AlphonseCapone]

1 minute ago, Mister Dee said:

I have plenty of compassion and have had my struggles during Covid. 
This is about helping the sick.  

 

Well then you'll appreciate there is more than one way to be sick mate.

[Nookie Bear]

13 minutes ago, Mister Dee said:

I’m amazed at how upset people are about missing a few football matches. 

There is so much other stuff going on which is well worth getting upset about, yet some are greeting that their Christmas plans have been disrupted. 

This ultimately about saving lives and preventing the NHS from collapse. Think about that if you have to dial 999 this Christmas. 

 

It's not just a few football matches though, is it.

 

People are frustrated. We are coming up for 2 years of restrictions. Many have had two vaccines plus a booster. Millions have not seen family since it all began and it is having a detrimental affect on the mental health of so many.

 

I am not saying we should ignore it but you must surely see that people are just frustrated beyond belief now. Any further restrictions will be ignored imo.

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

Yes, will be interesting discussion. What do Rangers and Celtic want to happen to benefit their brand best?

Exactly!Doncaster will be in discussion with the ugly sisters as we speak!

[Dazo]

7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

With all due repect, SKY do not pay nearly enough to have that kind of influence on our game.

 

Bring the break forward. It may not give us enough time but it will be something for the benefit of the supporters and may allow them to attend in 3 weeks.

 

It should at least be on the table.

I agree with the sentiment but 3 weeks from her could easily turn into 6 or more. Then what ? The whole mess is a joke and she doesn’t give a shit about football. 

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, Mister Dee said:

how many would it take for the decision to be acceptable to you? 

Like all these decisions you’d have to weigh it up with the financial consequences. I assume after two years the government will have done the modelling and will have an idea about how many lives it will save though. I doubt they take these decisions lightly so be good for them to let us know the answer. 

[Ribble]

13 minutes ago, Mister Dee said:

I’m amazed at how upset people are about missing a few football matches. 

There is so much other stuff going on which is well worth getting upset about, yet some are greeting that their Christmas plans have been disrupted. 

This ultimately about saving lives and preventing the NHS from collapse. Think about that if you have to dial 999 this Christmas. 

 

People are upset at sporting events being targeted for an arbitrary 3 week period, if the risks are so high why allow games to go ahead this week? Also why not close down utter shite like the xmas market and non-essential shops, those would have a much more positive impact on the NHS? 

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Dazo said:

I agree with the sentiment but 3 weeks from her could easily turn into 6 or more. Then what ? The whole mess is a joke and she doesn’t give a shit about football. 

 

Oh yeah, she can **** right off. 😄

 

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, Mister Dee said:

I have plenty of compassion and have had my struggles during Covid. 
This is about helping the sick.  

How many sick will it help?

[Leveins Battalion]

Mods clearing out posts here quicker than Claus Schwabbs team on Twitter.😂😂

[buzzbomb1958]

1 minute ago, Ribble said:

 

People are upset at sporting events being targeted for an arbitrary 3 week period, if the risks are so high why allow games to go ahead this week? Also why not close down utter shite like the xmas market and non-essential shops, those would have a much more positive impact on the NHS? 

That will come guaranteed 

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, InternationalJambo said:

I’m intrigued to know where you think the poster is wrong there and why? 

He appears solely focused on Deaths being the only important factor on what covid can seriously impact.

He rightly highlights that Omicron is so far appearing to be less severe than Delta but fails to mention that it infects about 4 times as many people as Delta (and thus fails to see how that might play out).

He brings up vaccine passports for some reason. Not sure why. 

He says the need for endless boosters is questionable, despite a lot of data suggesting that it significantly helps reduce severe symptoms in many.

He fails to realise that the vaccines for the vast majority aren't there to really protect people from the symptoms of covid/ilnees, but rather to prevent us getting it at all and thus stop us spreading it to those who are at risk.

He then verges well into the anti-vax mode of saying that they are actually a threat to U-18s. He will probably come back with some sort of data that mentions reported 'side effects', without going any deeper. A sore arm is a side effect.

 

That pretty much covers it from a quick reading.

 

Oh aye, and earlier he suggested that PCR tests are chucked in the bin instead of being sent to a lab. I think that might have been a joke though to be fair. I hope.

[Mister Dee]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

How many sick will it help?

how many would it take for the decision to be acceptable to you? 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Oh yeah, she can **** right off. 😄

 

I don’t think any of the restrictions during any part of this crisis have lasted only for the initial period suggested. 

[Pancakejambo]

As gutted as I am by this news, this thread has completely lost any sense of perspective.  The level of ill-informed science being bandied around here beggars belief. 

 

This is a pandemic. It takes years to get through these things. Nobody knows what will happen next at any given point. Real scientists form advice on intensely complex information and they don't do these things to piss us off. They do it to look after us - and they do it specifically to look after the most vulnerable in our communities. The interests of the self-entitled outraged but vocal minority on this forum aren’t necessarily the priority. People who might die from covid or who might die because of an over-whelmed NHS are the priority. And the spread of covid removes staff from our care service - so the vulnerable at home risk being left alone in their own waste because there are no carers available.

 

Be upset, I know I am. But just to take a few minutes and really think about why these decisions get made. Don’t judge a pandemic by your direct experience of the world. It’s not about football, it’s about lives.

[Hagar the Horrible]

people are not getting cancer diagnosis until its too late, Time to stop anti-vac idiots getting allowed into hospitals, its a conspiracy after all, so why do they need any care?  I think its time to start living again, herd immunity.  Its my choice to go to games, If I get it, i think I am healthy enough to cope,  If I did not then I would stay away and be causious around all aspects of life.  But I got the jab to protect those who cant live a normal life.

[McCrae]

People would buy into this if it was made clear who was at serious risk and why.

The waters have been muddied further by the FM linking lockdown measures to UKG funding.

 

If public health is at serious risk lockdown should occur with or without funding. Peoples safety is more important that funding.

[buzzbomb1958]

1 minute ago, Pancakejambo said:

As gutted as I am by this news, this thread has completely lost any sense of perspective.  The level of ill-informed science being bandied around here beggars belief. 

 

This is a pandemic. It takes years to get through these things. Nobody knows what will happen next at any given point. Real scientists form advice on intensely complex information and they don't do these things to piss us off. They do it to look after us - and they do it specifically to look after the most vulnerable in our communities. The interests of the self-entitled outraged but vocal minority on this forum aren’t necessarily the priority. People who might die from covid or who might die because of an over-whelmed NHS are the priority. And the spread of covid removes staff from our care service - so the vulnerable at home risk being left alone in their own waste because there are no carers available.

 

Be upset, I know I am. But just to take a few minutes and really think about why these decisions get made. Don’t judge a pandemic by your direct experience of the world. It’s not about football, it’s about lives.

At last a sensible outlook ,praise be

[Mister Dee]

As someone who works in the NHS & has spent time in ICU today, it’s a pretty bleak place at the best of times. 
The staff who work there are amazing. 
 

 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

If there is a genie in a bottle here, won’t it be well and truly free 5 days from now?

[portobellojambo1]

22 minutes ago, tazhearts said:

Do you think Hearts will still try and allow 500 season ticket holders to attend?  Will the 500 include players, officials, media, etc. etc.

 

The media are describing it as football being effectively without fans, and I think that is what the clubs will do, they will play the games behind closed doors. Just using Hearts as an example how are HMFC meant to decide on which 500 of the ST holders s/b allowed into that game. And would they have to consider money already received from those going to hospitalty in the figure, where although I suspect a fair few of them will already be ST holders the number may also include block bookings by employers which coud include some who are fans of other clubs as well.

Edited December 21, 2021 by portobellojambo1

[been here before]

22 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

This page has turned into a panel of Facebook experts. Its a Karen club!

 

Im amazed the JKB Experts On Everything who were posturing about what was definitaly going to happen missed this 500 limit.

[GinRummy]

27 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The restrictions will make little difference. In 4 days time the entire country will be spending 4 or 5 hours in each other living rooms with no masks. A week later a sizeable proportion will be crammed into each other houses at New Years parties and then a couple of days after that everyone will toddle off back to work and school. 
 

Saving the NHS by asking folk to stay a metre apart in pubs or to not go to football is utter nonsense. 

@Mister Dee 

 

here are my thoughts above from earlier.

 

If she’s shutting down football and restricting hospitality, I think it’s reasonable to expect her to have some figures on how many people this will stop passing away or becoming seriously ill. Don’t you?

[Do The Dance]

Bringing the break forward seems like the most logical thing to do, surely!?

[buzzbomb1958]

1 minute ago, Mister Dee said:

As someone who works in the NHS & has spent time in ICU today, it’s a pretty bleak place at the best of times. 
The staff who work there are amazing. 
 

 

Thanks for your service stay safe

[Jambo92]

What is the logical reason for letting games be at full capacity tomorrow?  Christmas will be a super spreader event much larger than every football match over the next 3 weeks put together... 

[TyphoonJambo]

If the infection growth rate is this bad,why waste 5 days?

[The Treasurer]

Like most others I've followed the regulations, got my jabs when required and done regular tests.

I had hoped this would allow me to do the things I want to do, which includes going to the football.

While I am all for some rules (face masks etc) I do think the time is coming that we just have get on with normal life.

I also think a lot of the scientists and experts that are constantly on TV are starting to enjoy their "celebrity" status and continually want to make headline statements and decisions in order to keep themselves in the limelight

[buzzbomb1958]

Just now, portobellojambo1 said:

 

The media are describing it as football being effectivwely without fans, and I think that is what the clubs will do, they will play the games behind closed doors. Just using Hearts as an example how are they meant to decide on which 500 of the ST holders s/b allowed into that game. And would they have to consider money already received from those going to hospitalty in the figure, where although I suspect a fair few of them will already be ST holders the number may also include block bookings by employers which coud include some who are fans of other clubs as well.

Even with limited fans there is still outgoing such as stewards and police etc not worth the hassle 

[Nookie Bear]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t think any of the restrictions during any part of this crisis have lasted only for the initial period suggested. 

 

To be honest, by the time this one ends we will all be back to the grim reality of work with **** all to look forward to so it doesn't really matter.

[john thomas]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Thanks martoon but I don't have any symptoms so I am one of the dangerous ones. I wouldn't have even tested without getting the e-mail and would have spread it round my family and friends, which is fine if they're young, healthy and have had their boosters, but some are old, have health conditions, and are a risk of hospitalisation. Plus the strain on the local NHS.

 

But FITBAWWWWWWW!!!!!

Thank **** for some common sense

[InternationalJambo]

13 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

He appears solely focused on Deaths being the only important factor on what covid can seriously impact.

He rightly highlights that Omicron is so far appearing to be less severe than Delta but fails to mention that it infects about 4 times as many people as Delta (and thus fails to see how that might play out).

He brings up vaccine passports for some reason. Not sure why. 

He says the need for endless boosters is questionable, despite a lot of data suggesting that it significantly helps reduce severe symptoms in many.

He fails to realise that the vaccines for the vast majority aren't there to really protect people from the symptoms of covid/ilnees, but rather to prevent us getting it at all and thus stop us spreading it to those who are at risk.

He then verges well into the anti-vax mode of saying that they are actually a threat to U-18s. He will probably come back with some sort of data that mentions reported 'side effects', without going any deeper. A sore arm is a side effect.

 

That pretty much covers it from a quick reading.

 

Oh aye, and earlier he suggested that PCR tests are chucked in the bin instead of being sent to a lab. I think that might have been a joke though to be fair. I hope.

All fair points on the other side of the coin but what I want to know - that no one has been able to answer so far is - where’s the endgame? 
 

I understand we need to do all we can to help protect the vulnerable and that is our responsibility but at what cost? Without meaning to get political how long are we willing to let the Scottish and even to an extent the UK government make these types of decisions that are screwing over the vast majority of the population? What is their basis on bringing in restrictions again when their own words were we will be back to normal when you get the vaccine? Now it’s the booster… Wonder what’ll be next? 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by InternationalJambo

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

The media are describing it as football being effectively without fans, and I think that is what the clubs will do, they will play the games behind closed doors. Just using Hearts as an example how are HMFC meant to decide on which 500 of the ST holders s/b allowed into that game. And would they have to consider money already received from those going to hospitalty in the figure, where although I suspect a fair few of them will already be ST holders the number may also include block bookings by employers which coud include some who are fans of other clubs as well.

Might piss people off but support those attending/paying for hospitality being the 500 - it’s better for the club.

 

Appreciate it might be viewed as elitist but it maximises money for the club.

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, TypoonJambo said:

If the infection growth rate is this bad,why waste 5 days?

 

Exactly. If we are going to shut it down, do it now and get ahead of it.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Just now, been here before said:

 

Arent they just. Its like Nicola is running the forum

 

Why just run the MSM?