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TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )


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The Goalscoring Knee
1 minute ago, davemclaren said:
11 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Think there is some sort of aeration technology installed to help pitch.

A fan?

:arf:

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1 hour ago, broxburnjambo said:

I may be totally wrong but was there not something about letting light in to the houses behind the Gorgie stand as part of planning permission. Cant see it being an issue with the Roseburn.

Think that was for the building of the Gorgie stand. That's why the top left corner as you look at it isnlower than the rest.

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jambo-in-furness
16 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Think that was for the building of the Gorgie stand. That's why the top left corner as you look at it isnlower than the rest.

 

 

Aye and now the trees growing behind that stand are now higher than the stand, thus blocking the light the stand was designed to let in!

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1 hour ago, jambo-in-furness said:

 

 

Aye and now the trees growing behind that stand are now higher than the stand, thus blocking the light the stand was designed to let in!

Time to get the roof raised to the same level as the rest of the Gorgie and put done more seats in.

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Libertarian
18 hours ago, chrisyboy7 said:

Looking like our games against the mighty county is a sellout....we could have done with a few thousand extra seats even for this game.

Absolutely correct. It's glaringly obvious that Hearts need to somehow increase the capacity of Tynecastle. The way that the club are currently progressing we could possibly have 18,000 season ticket holders in a few years. The club has to somehow increase the capacity in order for Hearts to continue growing.

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1 minute ago, Libertarian said:

Absolutely correct. It's glaringly obvious that Hearts need to somehow increase the capacity of Tynecastle. The way that the club are currently progressing we could possibly have 18,000 season ticket holders in a few years. The club has to somehow increase the capacity in order for Hearts to continue growing.

I have been slated for this...You are spot on......we cant grow now as this is it.....would love to know if they are even thinking about any sort of expansion.

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I

9 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

Absolutely correct. It's glaringly obvious that Hearts need to somehow increase the capacity of Tynecastle. The way that the club are currently progressing we could possibly have 18,000 season ticket holders in a few years. The club has to somehow increase the capacity in order for Hearts to continue growing.

 

6 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

I have been slated for this...You are spot on......we cant grow now as this is it.....would love to know if they are even thinking about any sort of expansion.

When we sustain 15k STs for a 3 or 4 years and cement 3rd/4th or better in the league will regular European games along with it then we could justifiably look at expansion or moving from Tynie. Finish 6th this year and we will be right back to 15k attendances next year.

05/06 2nd

06/07 4th

08/09 3rd

09/10 6th

10/11 3rd

11/12 5th

15/16 3rd

16/17 5th

 

Too inconsistent.

 

Edited by hughesie27
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15 hours ago, Homme said:

 

Some good advertising opportunities on the columns IMO. Either that or a place to put some Hearts graphics. I'm sure it's probably been looked at but perhaps written off for one reason or another. 

 

Didn't we have some legend banners on them years ago? 

 

Would also close off the ground a bit better and address the wind you mention.

Never mind the wind the seagulls were a right menace on Saturday. 

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Libertarian
7 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

I have been slated for this...You are spot on......we cant grow now as this is it.....would love to know if they are even thinking about any sort of expansion.

I would be astonished if the club hasn't carried out a feasibility study of all the issues surrounding increasing the capacity of Tynecastle. 

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Niemi’s gloves
14 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

Absolutely correct. It's glaringly obvious that Hearts need to somehow increase the capacity of Tynecastle. The way that the club are currently progressing we could possibly have 18,000 season ticket holders in a few years. The club has to somehow increase the capacity in order for Hearts to continue growing.

“Somehow increase the capacity of Tynecastle” isn’t very helpful. It seems to me that there are really only two answers: accept that we have to make do with a capacity at best only slightly above the current one; or move away from Tynecastle. I don’t see any great enthusiasm for the second of these.

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3 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

3 or 4 years lol.....are you serious....The club has grown and needs this now....What you are saying is buy the time its all put in place your talking about 6/7 years time...when its complete....how many fans are locked out and how much revenue is lost in this time lol. We should add seats regardless....the European games and the bigger league games will demand 23k-30k alone now...we are losing out on millions that can be invested in an even better team and this needs to be done asap so we can actually challenge now...The demand has always been there...we just needed a team and the club to be ran properly.....It will also be more expensive the longer we leave it.......If we cant grow then we should have moved....The club has an opportunity here...or will we miss the boat...You just need to look at the crowds when we where rock bottom too...14k approx....This just shows the potential......I thik we are heading in the right direction....There is land available now...but if we wait it might nor be....We will blow the only chance m8....The club must be looking at this......It takes a good two years of planning....best to get on with regardless if we do it or not....Having the planning will make it quicker and avoid more costs in construction.....I fully understand where you are coming from...but the rise of the club is there for all to see.....going bust to selling out against ross county ffs.....come on......we can only currently get around 19k....way way short of whats required to achieve anything in the modern game....Lets do it....

 

When we sustain 15k STs for a 3 or 4 years and cement 3rd/4th or better in the league will regular European games along with it then we could justifiably look at expansion or moving from Tynie. Finish 6th this year and we will be right back to 15k attendances next year.

3 or 4 years lol

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22 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I

 

When we sustain 15k STs for a 3 or 4 years and cement 3rd/4th or better in the league will regular European games along with it then we could justifiably look at expansion or moving from Tynie. Finish 6th this year and we will be right back to 15k attendances next year.

05/06 2nd

06/07 4th

08/09 3rd

09/10 6th

10/11 3rd

11/12 5th

15/16 3rd

16/17 5th

 

Too inconsistent.

 

Averages out at 3.7 for the seasons you have quoted.

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davemclaren
17 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

I would be astonished if the club hasn't carried out a feasibility study of all the issues surrounding increasing the capacity of Tynecastle. 

They did - it was called The New Main Stand project. 

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Libertarian
Just now, Niemi’s gloves said:

“Somehow increase the capacity of Tynecastle” isn’t very helpful. It seems to me that there are really only two answers: accept that we have to make do with a capacity at best only slightly above the current one; or move away from Tynecastle. I don’t see any great enthusiasm for the second of these.

I like most Hearts fans would prefer to remain at Tynecastle. I am no architect but it would be interesting to find out how to increase the capacity to 25,000 and what the cost would be. A good friend of mine who was instrumental in getting the FOH off the ground had plans in his office to flatten the existing stands (this was before the new stand was built) and turn the pitch from North/south to east/west and on the existing footprint build (by his calculations) a 40,000 capacity stadium funded by the FOH. I'm not suggesting that we do this now, however I think that this is a good example of what could be done if an architect was given the task of increasing the capacity to 25,000.

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Watt-Zeefuik
29 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

Absolutely correct. It's glaringly obvious that Hearts need to somehow increase the capacity of Tynecastle. The way that the club are currently progressing we could possibly have 18,000 season ticket holders in a few years. The club has to somehow increase the capacity in order for Hearts to continue growing.

 

26 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

I have been slated for this...You are spot on......we cant grow now as this is it.....would love to know if they are even thinking about any sort of expansion.

 

I don't disagree but it's my bit on here to point out that because of planning constraints, expanding by even one seat right now is very expensive. It doesn't become cost effective until we add 6-8k seats at least, and with inflation and labor costs high and the potential for an economic downturn in the UK very strong, it's an insane time to try to expand. The club just doesn't have that kind of money at the moment.

 

We can wring our hands about it and moan that we're leaving money on the table, but we quite simply cannot expand Tynecastle at the moment with our present resources.

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Just now, sac said:

Averages out at 3.7 for the seasons you have quoted.

And the seasons I never quoted we were nowhere near. I only looked at the seasons we finished 3rd or better and the season immediately after.

So from 05/06 to last year we finished 3rd or better only once every 3.4 seasons.

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Libertarian
3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

They did - it was called The New Main Stand project. 

My understanding is that the club basically had to build the new main stand as the old one was literally falling apart and a threat to health and safety.

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Watt-Zeefuik
4 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

I like most Hearts fans would prefer to remain at Tynecastle. I am no architect but it would be interesting to find out how to increase the capacity to 25,000 and what the cost would be. A good friend of mine who was instrumental in getting the FOH off the ground had plans in his office to flatten the existing stands (this was before the new stand was built) and turn the pitch from North/south to east/west and on the existing footprint build (by his calculations) a 40,000 capacity stadium funded by the FOH. I'm not suggesting that we do this now, however I think that this is a good example of what could be done if an architect was given the task of increasing the capacity to 25,000.

 

I'm not an architect but I have an advanced degree from an architecture school in planning, and I've been on the board of an organization for the planning stage of a major commercial building project before. I read most of the public materials for the new main stand project and remember most of the specific difficulties.

 

Bottom line: we need £40m minimum. We don't have it.

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Currently Tyncastle can only hold around 19k due to segregation apart from the hibs games..approk 19.8k

 

currently we need around 22/23k.....Yip a few k short......

 

At the current rate of growth this could increase to around 25k in the next 5 years.....But it can't........too small eh....

 

Demand for european games is already at 25-32k You just need to look at past figures to clarify this...80's, 90's & Muddyfield...

 

Now before i get panned from the usual on here...you just need to look at the sales in the last few years. They are growing. Even in tough times as these are, they are still growing....it's crazy but fact!

 

The club has also kept the prices low which has helped grow the sales in season tickets which are currently at a record 15.7k approx. This may well have exceeded to 16-17k......but we don't have the seats....Yet!

 

Fabulous position for the club to be in and all possible due to our brilliant support.....

 

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1 minute ago, Libertarian said:

My understanding is that the club basically had to build the new main stand as the old one was literally falling apart and a threat to health and safety.

His point is that when they planned to build it they looked at various potential options across the stadium.

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Just now, Led Tasso said:

 

I'm not an architect but I have an advanced degree from an architecture school in planning, and I've been on the board of an organization for the planning stage of a major commercial building project before. I read most of the public materials for the new main stand project and remember most of the specific difficulties.

 

Bottom line: we need £40m minimum. We don't have it.

You are correct we don't it..but some of our fans do.....Some of it can be borrowed and raised.....Its not impossible. Just a challenge but we have went from bust to a new stand etc in a very short space of time....We are Hearts and everything is possible.

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Watt-Zeefuik
2 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

My understanding is that the club basically had to build the new main stand as the old one was literally falling apart and a threat to health and safety.

 

Not quite. The old main stand had stopped producing any revenue to speak of because the annual maintenance on it was so high that it basically ate any proceeds from it. What spurred action was the renovation of the nursery, giving us a chance to acquire that land and build if we included the nursery in our main stand.

 

However, the limit on stadium size was and is the COMAH regulations regarding the ethanol tanks at NBDC. Even if we flattened everything, rotated the pitch, dug a hole in the ground, and did a jig, we would still end up with a stadium with a maximum capacity of exactly where it is now. We built every single seat we were allowed under planning.

 

NBDC has repeatedly expressed willingness over the years to move the ethanol provided we helped pay for the cost of solving the problem. It has yet to be worth it to us to do so.

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24 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I

 

When we sustain 15k STs for a 3 or 4 years and cement 3rd/4th or better in the league will regular European games along with it then we could justifiably look at expansion or moving from Tynie. Finish 6th this year and we will be right back to 15k attendances next year.

05/06 2nd

06/07 4th

08/09 3rd

09/10 6th

10/11 3rd

11/12 5th

15/16 3rd

16/17 5th

 

Too inconsistent.

 

 

Yet the never ending "see how it goes in a few seasons" attitude is just a sure fire way of sitting mediocrity forever.

Not sure what the answer is but its pretty clear the inconsistent revenue from Europe, hospitality dinners and selling the odd rising star isnt going to put us into OF contention each season. We need other ways to bridge the gap and capitalizing on the ticket demand seems to be pretty sensible , albeit is going to take a massive investment in the first instance.

 

I think the best option would be relocation of the stadium in due course , own the land and dictate what you build to increase the revenue, never know maybe Shankland will be worth 80m by the end of the season and and we can get the applications for planning permission in.

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Watt-Zeefuik
1 minute ago, chrisyboy7 said:

You are correct we don't it..but some of our fans do.....Some of it can be borrowed and raised.....Its not impossible. Just a challenge but we have went from bust to a new stand etc in a very short space of time....We are Hearts and everything is possible.

 

I repeat that it's an expensive time to build with a lot of economic uncertainty. Tynecastle as it stands now is a beautiful, functional, well-maintained, and sturdy stadium that accommodates our needs for most of our games. Yes, we are leaving revenue on the table, but not enough to justify the cost of expansion.

 

If we find some regular success in Europe, I expect in 5-10 years, hopefully when construction costs are less volatile and the economic outlook is less chaotic, the case will become more compelling. For instance, if we catch lightning in a bottle, finish second, and make it through the CL qualifiers to the group stage, we'll have the cash and the business case to expand to 30k without a problem. There's less fanciful ways similar could happen for us as well.

 

We also went from contending for the league to bust in a very short space of time. We should take care not to do that again.

 

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1 minute ago, Americana said:

 

Yet the never ending "see how it goes in a few seasons" attitude is just a sure fire way of sitting mediocrity forever.

Not sure what the answer is but its pretty clear the inconsistent revenue from Europe, hospitality dinners and selling the odd rising star isnt going to put us into OF contention each season. We need other ways to bridge the gap and capitalizing on the ticket demand seems to be pretty sensible , albeit is going to take a massive investment in the first instance.

 

I think the best option would be relocation of the stadium in due course , own the land and dictate what you build to increase the revenue, never know maybe Shankland will be worth 80m by the end of the season and and we can get the applications for planning permission in.

Moving away from Tynecastle would definitely be the most cost effective answer. The dinosaur fans would never allow that to happen though.

 

 

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Just now, hughesie27 said:

Moving away from Tynecastle would definitely be the most cost effective answer. The dinosaur fans would never allow that to happen though.

 

 

We are the straiton boys not have the same ring to it?

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Watt-Zeefuik
1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

Moving away from Tynecastle would definitely be the most cost effective answer. The dinosaur fans would never allow that to happen though.

 

 

Nobody can ever manage to justify this statement. Aberdeen are ready to spend £75-80m on an out of town stadium that's smaller than Tynecastle currently is. Getting Tynecastle to 30k is probably a £50m proposition. How on earth is a new stadium more cost effective?!?

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22 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

Currently Tyncastle can only hold around 19k due to segregation apart from the hibs games..approk 19.8k

 

currently we need around 22/23k.....Yip a few k short......

 

At the current rate of growth this could increase to around 25k in the next 5 years.....But it can't........too small eh....

 

Demand for european games is already at 25-32k You just need to look at past figures to clarify this...80's, 90's & Muddyfield...

 

Now before i get panned from the usual on here...you just need to look at the sales in the last few years. They are growing. Even in tough times as these are, they are still growing....it's crazy but fact!

 

The club has also kept the prices low which has helped grow the sales in season tickets which are currently at a record 15.7k approx. This may well have exceeded to 16-17k......but we don't have the seats....Yet!

 

Fabulous position for the club to be in and all possible due to our brilliant support.....

 

When you say 30k for OF games, are you planning on giving them 10k seats? Because if so, **** that.

Edited by hughesie27
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Watt-Zeefuik
2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

When yous aye 30k for OF games, are you planning on giving them 10k seats? Because if so, **** that.

 

I imagine for OF games we'd give them 5-6k. You want to justify a bigger stadium, you take money off the OF fans. (And Aberdeen, Hibs, and European opponents, TBF)

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5 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I repeat that it's an expensive time to build with a lot of economic uncertainty. Tynecastle as it stands now is a beautiful, functional, well-maintained, and sturdy stadium that accommodates our needs for most of our games. Yes, we are leaving revenue on the table, but not enough to justify the cost of expansion.

 

If we find some regular success in Europe, I expect in 5-10 years, hopefully when construction costs are less volatile and the economic outlook is less chaotic, the case will become more compelling. For instance, if we catch lightning in a bottle, finish second, and make it through the CL qualifiers to the group stage, we'll have the cash and the business case to expand to 30k without a problem. There's less fanciful ways similar could happen for us as well.

 

We also went from contending for the league to bust in a very short space of time. We should take care not to do that again.

 

I see what your saying but would it not be best to do the planning now...not so much the building works etc?

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4 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

When yous aye 30k for OF games, are you planning on giving them 10k seats? Because if so, **** that.

No idea where your getting your 30k number from.....As for your team Hibs............................:)

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Just now, hughesie27 said:

Moving away from Tynecastle would definitely be the most cost effective answer. The dinosaur fans would never allow that to happen though.

 

 

How not to win friends and influence people!

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1 minute ago, Led Tasso said:

Nobody can ever manage to justify this statement. Aberdeen are ready to spend £75-80m on an out of town stadium that's smaller than Tynecastle currently is. Getting Tynecastle to 30k is probably a £50m proposition. How on earth is a new stadium more cost effective?!?

Long term there are no restrictions for space. We can build into retail opportunities/hotel/restaurant/bars. Some money recouped from selling on the land in Gorgie.

Given we have just built the main stand it's clearly not on the agenda for another 15 or 20 years at least but I'm not even convinced we have the space to bump Tynie into the 30k range. You can't do anything to the Gorgie or Main Stand, Wheatfield could in theory be totally rebuilt, not sure there such behind that to restrict it, it would have to double in size at least. 

 

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Watt-Zeefuik
Just now, chrisyboy7 said:

I see what your saying but would it not be best to do the planning now...not so much the building works etc?

 

I would be shocked if there weren't members of the board or of the executive team who didn't keep a side glance on these issues as we go. The big advantage we have is that NBDC are both the source of the primary planning constraint and the owner of most of the land we'd need to execute an expansion. As for formal planning approval, you can't get that until you have at least rough plans in hand, and that doesn't make any sense to do until you know when you're going to be building.

 

The other side of this is that with the whisky industry in a strong position, NBDC aren't sitting still. They're investing in their physical plant and don't plan to stop just because we might want to do something in the future. Nor should they—they're a very large, employee-owned business providing solid, steady jobs in a wobbly economy, and I wish them all success provided it doesn't hamstring us.

 

The wild card in this is if planning approval for the school housing bit falls through because of ethanol issues. With the right developer, there's probably quite a bit of money to be made in putting together the school, NBDC, and stadium properties and coming up with a master plan for the whole thing on the scale of a £250-350m housing and hotel development that transforms the area and includes new Wheatfield and Roseburn stands. But that would be an enormous lift in terms of coordination.

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13 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I imagine for OF games we'd give them 5-6k. You want to justify a bigger stadium, you take money off the OF fans. (And Aberdeen, Hibs, and European opponents, TBF)

5/6k absolutely, but that puts us at around 22k. I don't see there being demand from Hearts fans that would see 8k more coming to a run of the mill OF game thats likely on TV and on a Sunday at half 12.

Edited by hughesie27
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10 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

No idea where your getting your 30k number from.....As for your team Hibs............................:)

When you said "...the European games and the bigger league games will demand 23k-30k alone now."

 

 

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Watt-Zeefuik
10 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

5/6k absolutely, but that puts us at around 22k. I don't see there being demand from Hearts fans that would see 8k more coming to a run of the mill OF game thats likely on TV and on a Sunday at half 12.

 

If we're pushing one of them for second place, I think the demand would absolutely be there.

 

If we're just expecting a regular doing, no, not so much.

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1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

And the seasons I never quoted we were nowhere near. I only looked at the seasons we finished 3rd or better and the season immediately after.

So from 05/06 to last year we finished 3rd or better only once every 3.4 seasons.

👍

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Libertarian
1 hour ago, chrisyboy7 said:

You are correct we don't it..but some of our fans do.....Some of it can be borrowed and raised.....Its not impossible. Just a challenge but we have went from bust to a new stand etc in a very short space of time....We are Hearts and everything is possible.

If for example we could invest in increasing the capacity at Tynecastle to around 25,000. We could potentially be selling 18,000 season tickets. This would increase revenue by around £900,000 + bigger travelling support and walk ups, Hearts could be looking at a conservative estimate of increasing income by around £1.3m per-season.

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All we need is disco lights. Get them in and it's perfect. 

 

We don't need more seats.Our crowd numbers fluctuate too much to make it worth while. 

 

 

 

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davemclaren
25 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

All we need is disco lights. Get them in and it's perfect. 

 

We don't need more seats.Our crowd numbers fluctuate too much to make it worth while. 

 

 

 

Disco lights. 🥸

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heartsfc_fan

Can someone clarify, in the late 1980s when we got high 20k's for some league games against Hibs and the Old Firm. How many away fans attended roughly?

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14 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

Can someone clarify, in the late 1980s when we got high 20k's for some league games against Hibs and the Old Firm. How many away fans attended roughly?

7k?

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Libertarian
16 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

Can someone clarify, in the late 1980s when we got high 20k's for some league games against Hibs and the Old Firm. How many away fans attended roughly?

Remember in 2017 while playing at Murray field a poor Hearts side had around 26,000 against Aberdeen and 36,000 against Rangers. I know that there were large away supports at both games but the home crowd was in excess of 20,000

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  • davemclaren changed the title to TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

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