John souttar

[luckydug]

2 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

If you don’t think we rushed players back over the past 3 seasons consider the consequences of playing Peter Haring in that cup final.

 

We were a mess medically for a couple of years. That many injuries, repeat injuries, continued absences and muscle injuries in particular is not bad luck.

I thought you meant Soapy's latest injury and recovery. 

[Four faces]

We do have some leverage here.Soapy may think signing a pre contract is too risky.An injury would put the deal dead in the water.For that reason he may want to sign for bigger wages elsewhere in January.This is where we have some power.I believe a few clubs will be interested in him,Premiership and championship.2 million is nothing to these clubs and the reward outweighs the risk for them.So a wee auction for him may see us ok.Maybe.

[Bozi]

It's like the Bruno Aguiar situation all over again

 

Comes into the club and looks brilliant,  gets a long term injury, finally gets back to full fitness and looks different class, looks like a top player, fans love him...leaves for feck all 

[Carl Fredrickson]

A decent article by Tom English Re Scotland team and this part jumped out at me

"After that, it was a horrific journey through the brutal side of elite sport. A hip injury and 100 days on the sidelines. An ankle issue and 149 days out of action. A ruptured Achilles tendon and 121 days gone. Another Achilles rupture and another 221 days. He had one in 2017, too."

 

That is a lot of days injured. I think he is a tremendous player for us and would love him to stay but cant see it. 

 

Full article

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59304738

 

[Lone Striker]

14 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

of course. Joe Savage has already shown what he's capable of. But not just down to him - from a finance point of view Budge, Anderson and others will be doing all we can within reason.

 

the amount of hindsight and memory loss from some makes me chuckle. we should 'push the boat out' to offer a long term deal to a player who's had a few potentially career threatening injuries. If the poor guy was to suffer another such injury we'd possibly be stuck paying loads of money to someone who can't play.

 

we also thankfully have those in charge of our finances who aren't chucking money around the place like they're in a casino.

Well... if you ignore the big overspend on the new stand ... then yes.  🙂.   His injury history probably makes it a case of  "damned if we do  and damned if we don't" as regards Souttar's contract situation.   Every game he plays for us carries a risk both to him, his future  and to Hearts.  If we don't sell outright in January and he just signs  a P-C,  it then also becomes a risk to his new  club, although they can probably mitigate the risk in the P-C.  

 

It looks like the 2 least worst situations from Hearts point of view are either him signing a new contract with us or we sell him outright in January. 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

47 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

You've not explained what push the boat out means, and we may have already done that. 

 

I've never said don't bother. 

I've said offer him the best deal we feel is best for the club. I think we've already done that. 

 

Our best offer may have already been offered, rejected and not better than other offers he has. 

 

Your posts indicate that you think the club has not thought of these quite obvious things and benefits.

It will have, despite popular opinions from some Savage is cleverer than he looks. 

 

 

Do you think we've done nothing, not offered him a new deal? 

Do you really think that? 

 

If so, what more can we do? 

I’m not criticising the club at all, I don’t doubt for a second they’ve thought of all these things. I just hope the club don’t have the same doubt as folk on here and I hope we haven’t held anything back

[Bazzas right boot]

52 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

of course. Joe Savage has already shown what he's capable of. But not just down to him - from a finance point of view Budge, Anderson and others will be doing all we can within reason.

 

the amount of hindsight and memory loss from some makes me chuckle. we should 'push the boat out' to offer a long term deal to a player who's had a few potentially career threatening injuries. If the poor guy was to suffer another such injury we'd possibly be stuck paying loads of money to someone who can't play.

 

we also thankfully have those in charge of our finances who aren't chucking money around the place like they're in a casino.

 

 

Correct. 

Some go on about it like Hearts and the combined mental power of Savage, Budge, Anderson and all our coaching staff haven't thought of great ideas like offering more money, a longer contract and speaking to him.... 

 

Unfortunately it looks like he's gone. 

 

If he's not went in January and no pre Contract has been announced then I'll think he's going to an arse cheek. 

 

If only CL was still here, he had Souttars ear..... 

 

[Lfhearts]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Correct. 

Some go on about it like Hearts and the combined mental power of Savage, Budge, Anderson and all our coaching staff haven't thought of great ideas like offering more money, a longer contract and speaking to him.... 

 

Unfortunately it looks like he's gone. 

 

If he's not went in January and no pre Contract has been announced then I'll think he's going to an arse cheek. 

 

If only CL was still here, he had Souttars ear..... 

 

The First Minister has spoken load of bunkum but hey ho.

[luckydug]

20 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’m not criticising the club at all, I don’t doubt for a second they’ve thought of all these things. I just hope the club don’t have the same doubt as folk on here and I hope we haven’t held anything back

There isn't any doubt about his abilities. 

There is no getting away from his injury record though. 

Clubs will take that in to account when negotiating. 

 

 

[SUTOL]

3 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Rushed him back?

 

Played him when he wasn’t quite right or as strong as he could have been?

 

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

He said himself he had rushed back before and was happy to take it slower this time. 
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/6877566/hearts-scotland-john-souttar-injury-hell-return/

 

He "rushed" himself back, not persuaded or forced by the club. 

 

 

"He said: “I think previously I rushed to get back to the team, which was probably detrimental to me."

[SUTOL]

4 minutes ago, luckydug said:

There isn't any doubt about his abilities. 

There is no getting away from his injury record though. 

Clubs will take that in to account when negotiating. 

 

 

 

Maybe we can't afford the insurance premium. 

[Bazzas right boot]

28 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’m not criticising the club at all, I don’t doubt for a second they’ve thought of all these things. I just hope the club don’t have the same doubt as folk on here and I hope we haven’t held anything back

 

 

It's not a doubt, it's a fact. 

It's part of Souttars package. 

He has had a couple of really bad injuries. 

Ofc that will be a consideration, more so to a club that is offering relatively large wages or planning on making him a key player. 

 

I hope we've done all we should have done but depending on where he ends up any a actions are Likley futile. 

 

Likley hood is the deal is all but done behind the scenes and it's just a matter of time. 

 

[August Landmesser]

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/dundee-united/2740182/exclusive-john-souttar-dad-scotland-hero/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

 

Really nice article about Soapy's folks and their pride in the lad.

[ramrod]

One thing in our favour come January is there is going to be a fair few clubs looking to sign him on a pre contract, some might think there best chance of getting him is to stump up and sign him in January. 

Would be lovely if he signed a year extension even with say 10% guarantee of any future transfer fee .

We've got to be approaching this kinda left field. 

Another factor is if he signs a pre contract and doesn't move on he could be struggling for game time with Taylor Moore around   Would affect his chances of playing for Scotland in the play offs  

[john thomas]

4 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

If you don’t think we rushed players back over the past 3 seasons consider the consequences of playing Peter Haring in that cup final.

 

We were a mess medically for a couple of years. That many injuries, repeat injuries, continued absences and muscle injuries in particular is not bad luck.

Haring wasn't 'rushed back' he actually wanted to play in the game prior to the cup final .

[OTT]

Its a very bitter sweet feeling. Obviously, knowing the injuries he's overcame to end up scoring on his return to the national side should be a source of pride for me as a fan, but the flip side of it is knowing he's running that contract down, and in effect we have a choice between buttons in January and hope we can reinvest wisely, or nothing in the summer. 

 

As long as its down South rather than West I'm about as happy as this situation allows. 

 

The difficulty we have now, is do we risk a repeat of the Paterson situation or do we wrap him in cotton wool till January and cash in for pennies on the pound so we can try and get enough together to make a bid for Moore? (FWIW not holding out any hope for Moore tbh, Bristol will want megabucks despite him not making the grade there... English football)

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

8 minutes ago, john thomas said:

Haring wasn't 'rushed back' he actually wanted to play in the game prior to the cup final .

Is he a dr?

[FarmerTweedy]

8 hours ago, HEARTS FOREVER said:

I think he'd be better coming out with what his plans are. Instead he's keeping the Hearts fans in the dark and it feels a bit like he's pulling the wool over our eyes here.

 

Think the fans  and the club deserve a bit better from John imo.

Hearts fans do not deserve to have John Souttar, or any other player for that matter, spell out their future career plans in public for them and everyone else in football to know about. 

 

What a ridiculous claim!

[Fxxx the SPFL]

1 hour ago, August Landmesser said:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/dundee-united/2740182/exclusive-john-souttar-dad-scotland-hero/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

 

Really nice article about Soapy's folks and their pride in the lad.

Can you copy and paste article as I don’t want to subscribe to the paper cheers 

[Jumper]

18 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Is he a dr?

Naw. He’s a DM.😉

[jr ewing]

Must keep until the end of the season. 

[upgotheheads]

Report: Nottingham Forest want to beat Rangers to John Souttar signing

 

Looks like it's hotting up.

[August Landmesser]

45 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

Can you copy and paste article as I don’t want to subscribe to the paper cheers 

Ah shit, didn't realise it was behind a paywall now. It was free when I read it.

 

Not sure if anyone else subscribes to the courier on here...

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

Report: Nottingham Forest want to beat Rangers to John Souttar signing

 

Looks like it's hotting up.

Good to see. Also Forest play a back 3 ATM which is where he excels.

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

He "rushed" himself back, not persuaded or forced by the club. 

 

 

"He said: “I think previously I rushed to get back to the team, which was probably detrimental to me."

Who do you think allowed him to play? Surely the manager and the medical staff have a duty of care to players? Look at Haring for example. Berra also said he rushed back, as did Naismith. All to their detriment. 

[JimmyCant]

2 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

Report: Nottingham Forest want to beat Rangers to John Souttar signing

 

Looks like it's hotting up.

Forest ? The English version of Aberdeen with their best years before Sky killed football in this country. A curly perm club , floating along happy being a nothing club with a rusty old trophy gathering dust and with fans who weren’t even alive when it was won. That Forest ?. I’d actually have more respect for him if he went to Rangers.

[Armageddon]

591 days out injured.

Played 22 games in 3 years.

 

Superb player, and even better guy, his family are top top notch, I’d be amazed if he doesn’t ensure the club receive a fee and/or chunky sell on.

 

Theres no loyalty in football mind.

 

[FarmerTweedy]

11 hours ago, Stu_HMFC said:

I'm disappointed that we have got to this situation we find ourselves in with John Souttar. Injury or not why have we managed to get into the last year of his contract, Players we deem as key players shouldn't get past 18 months without opening contract talks from the club. Arsenal are the best at this letting players run down their contracts and loosing them cheap or free. 

 

I know John has been injured but a contract for 2/3 years could of been offered at the time he would of probably signed it. No one can see what will happen in the future. I do think he will leave come the end of the season but I also think he owes us! We have stuck by him throughout his injury. He needs to play the game sign a 2 year contract knowing it really means nothing and still get his move in the summer and fill our pockets with a nice healthy transfer fee. I don't really care who he goes to down south but would hate it to see him joining one of the old firm capitalizing on our poor business with contracts ( Pre Joe Savage ) 

You're talking utter drivel here.  Nobody knew, not the club nor the player, whether he'd ever even play again at the time when you're arguing we should have been giving him a new contract, never mind whether he'd come back as good a player as he'd been before.  It's utterly ludicrous to suggest we should have been giving him a new contract then, but hey, some people just can't resist looking for opportunities to slag the club!

 

[SUTOL]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Who do you think allowed him to play? Surely the manager and the medical staff have a duty of care to players? Look at Haring for example. Berra also said he rushed back, as did Naismith. All to their detriment. 

 

He said himself that he "rushed" himself back.

The duty of care from the medical staff can only go so far, if the player themselves say they feel good enough to play and their training performance backs that up. 

[FarmerTweedy]

11 hours ago, Stu_HMFC said:

Injury or not he would of still been deemed at Hearts as one of our key assets, So yeah a contract should of still been offered regardless of an injury or not, also for the players benefit. If he was still injured now he would be sweating going into the last few months of his deal thinking he might be unemployed in a few months! 

 

The amount of crap Hearts have throwing money too and giving massive contracts to players like Aidy White, Damour, Naismith over the last couple of years, Why wasn't a big contact not been offered to a current player Hearts already knew his potential. Not as if John Souttar was a Jamie Brandon. 

If we'd given him a new contract then, and he was still injured now, you'd currently be going absolutely mental slagging the club for having given a total crock a lengthy new contract and costing us an absolute fortune.  And the thing is, you'd be justified in that scenario.  You're not remotely justified in the scenario that's actually unfolded.

[FarmerTweedy]

11 hours ago, gar jambo said:

Why know give John douttar 20k a week 3 year contract he is roughly worth between 6 million to 10 million and get it back if their is clause in his contract  got to speculate yo accumulate  

Trying my best to translate this into English, it's been explained lots of times now by the more sensible posters on the thread why that's complete looney tunes, la la land thinking!

[FarmerTweedy]

10 hours ago, StirlingJambo said:

If we can afford to give him somewhere around 15k on a 2 year contract with the promise he can leave this coming summer then why not. His price is only going to rise. 
 

It's an incredibly simple answer: we can't afford to pay our top players £15k per week! 

 

It's truly baffling that some people are genuinely struggling with this!

[gar jambo]

How are you the clubs treasurer 

[gar jambo]

And your a guffy farmer tweedy 

[gar jambo]

Also your only surmising  mate just like myself ehhh !

[Gizmo]

4 hours ago, ramrod said:

One thing in our favour come January is there is going to be a fair few clubs looking to sign him on a pre contract, some might think there best chance of getting him is to stump up and sign him in January. 

Would be lovely if he signed a year extension even with say 10% guarantee of any future transfer fee .

We've got to be approaching this kinda left field. 

Another factor is if he signs a pre contract and doesn't move on he could be struggling for game time with Taylor Moore around   Would affect his chances of playing for Scotland in the play offs  

In what world is Souttar not first pick in this Hearts side after Craig Gordon. 

[Doc Rob]

7 hours ago, milky_26 said:

You're first paragraph didn't that happen with driver or am I misremembering?

Nah, you’re right enough. We expected to make a mint on Driver, especially after he was capped by England U21 - no small feat for a player at a non-OF SPL club! However, injury killed off all of that, and in the end he never even got a Scotland cap (despite eventually establishing his eligibility).

[jr ewing]

58 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

591 days out injured.

Played 22 games in 3 years.

 

Superb player, and even better guy, his family are top top notch, I’d be amazed if he doesn’t ensure the club receive a fee and/or chunky sell on.

 

Theres no loyalty in football mind.

 

How much is that per game?

[SUTOL]

3 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

How much is that per game?

 

What does it say in his contract? 

[Section Q]

Do Dundee Utd have a sell on clause....?

[Unknown user]

58 minutes ago, gar jambo said:

And your a guffy farmer tweedy 

 

I really enjoyed this post, keep it up gar!

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

Report: Nottingham Forest want to beat Rangers to John Souttar signing

 

Looks like it's hotting up.

 

A team the best part of £100m in debt can offer more than us. 

 

I honestly hope every one of these clubs go the same way as Derby. 

 

 

[Armageddon]

28 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

How much is that per game?

The players do call him Rolls Royce, I assumed it was because he’s class…. but maybe it’s because of his MPG and expensive servicing costs 🤣

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, SUTOL said:

 

He said himself that he "rushed" himself back.

The duty of care from the medical staff can only go so far, if the player themselves say they feel good enough to play and their training performance backs that up. 

The information they have these days would inform them he wasn’t ready, same as all the others that were rushed back. The only question is whether the manager over ruled the medical department, and I think we all know the answer to that. 

[john thomas]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

The information they have these days would inform them he wasn’t ready, same as all the others that were rushed back. The only question is whether the manager over ruled the medical department, and I think we all know the answer to that. 

You think we all know !

That settles that then 

[Japan Jambo]

I see we need Rentokil - we have a vermin infestation again this evening.

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The information they have these days would inform them he wasn’t ready, same as all the others that were rushed back. The only question is whether the manager over ruled the medical department, and I think we all know the answer to that. 

 

 

Manager over ruling the medical department. 

Ffs. 

😂😂

 

Full moon tonight? 

 

 

 

[Bongo 1874]

On 16/11/2021 at 05:06, Cruyff said:

Yer awf yer heid. John can leave for nothing and get 15 grand a week at some shitey wee championship club like Luton. There's no danger he will sign a new contract. Football is about money. It's a short career and he especially needs to make the most of it.

 

I'm sure he loves Hearts and it will be difficult to leave but he's got to put his interests first and foremost. Folk need to stop viewing everything through maroon tinted specs and accept the reality that Soapy is offski for pennies in January or f all in the summer. 

 

All we can hope for is that he doesn't end up over at the Galactic Empire playing for either of those two and that Savage and Co. are scouring the planet for a replacement. 

 

 

Why settle for English championship, we're it's evident to see if he keeps his performances up English Premiership is where he will be, and not playing for a relegation survival team, you also have to consider would Souttar turn down playing abroad? Being at us on 10k a week would be good for him and with the possibility of playing Europa league football. 

 

I'm sure Taylor Moore will be having a quiet word with him 👍. 

[Bongo 1874]

20 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Not for him it's not. 

 

Why would you knock back £20k + for £10k?

 

Because if his performances keep up he can get a far better move than an English championship team, as @John Findlaysaid and i don't always agree with him, Souttar is every bit the player Ben White is and he went for £50 mil to Arsenal, at no point do i disagree that 20k a week would be hard to turn down, but at the same time 10k will be a massive increase on what he is on, and with the opportunity to play Europa league next season. 

 

You can't do that playing in the championship. 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[Kiwidoug]

Being a sensible chap he'll be working this out for himself.  Is it really a good move to go to the championship on a 3 year deal.

 

Tricky for us as well.  If we offer him big money to extend his contract by another season it can create relatively issues 

 

Anyway, what will be will be.