John souttar

[1971fozzy]

Just now, Batistuta87 said:

Why would someone buy him in Jan and loan him back for the rest of the season? They'd be better just signing him on a pre contract and getting him for nothing if they're willing to wait until the end of the season to get him. 

exactly , he will likely be away away in January

[Drew Wallace]

The reality for me is we are going to lose JS for next to nothing Re of what we try

 

Just hope those behind the scenes prove me wrong 

[Sid]

5 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Why would someone buy him in Jan and loan him back for the rest of the season? They'd be better just signing him on a pre contract and getting him for nothing if they're willing to wait until the end of the season to get him. 

We don’t have to sell him in January. If clubs wait until the Summer, they may lose out or have to pay (him) more to win him. 
Pre-contract is his decision. Possibly some loyalty to us for paying him/recuperating him through his injuries? 

[Peakybunnet]

His injury problems will tell him to move for big money as his career might not last. 

 

As my old boss said, let them go if they want.  As you can always find somebody out there who is better. 

[jr ewing]

30 minutes ago, Sid said:

We don’t have to sell him in January. If clubs wait until the Summer, they may lose out or have to pay (him) more to win him. 
Pre-contract is his decision. Possibly some loyalty to us for paying him/recuperating him through his injuries? 

Cochrane would be an excellent replacement. 👌 

[Lfhearts]

4 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Cochrane would be an excellent replacement. 👌 

Gee whizz different positions totally.

[The White Cockade]

If Soapy is leaving it's absolutely vital we get Kingsley on a new deal

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Look Souttar is a top class defender.

 

But two of our best footballing performances this season were in games where Moore played for Souttar when JS was injured. Our other best performance was with Moore in the team also.

 

Is Moore better than Souttar? No.

 

But as a team can we perform well without him with Moore in the team? Yes.

 

One man doesn’t make a team and we are better equipped now than in the past to replace a player.

 

 

 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

10 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

If Soapy is leaving it's absolutely vital we get Kingsley on a new deal

It’s just as vital whether or not JS leaves IMO

[The White Cockade]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

It’s just as vital whether or not JS leaves IMO

you are right but we definitely can't afford to lose both

you aren't going to replace those two with similar quality imo

[jr ewing]

26 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

Gee whizz different positions totally.

Use the money wisely, if he goes on someone you will easily get your investment back. 

[SectionDJambo]

46 minutes ago, Peakybunnet said:

His injury problems will tell him to move for big money as his career might not last. 

 

As my old boss said, let them go if they want.  As you can always find somebody out there who is better. 

Your old boss was right. If someone wants to leave any job, let them go. If you persuade them to stay the chances are their heart won’t be in it anymore. 
The situation with John Souttar is really a simple one in footballing terms. Hearts can’t afford to give him the wages he can now attract. He is at a stage in his career where he feels he needs to maximise his income, especially given his past injuries must cause some doubt in his mind as to whether he can stay injury free or play into his 30s.

It’s unfortunate that we won’t get a transfer fee to reflect his ability, and we haven’t had much benefit from his last contract in playing time. As long as he doesn’t end up in Glasgow, we should wish him well for his future.

[EH11]

23 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Your old boss was right. If someone wants to leave any job, let them go. If you persuade them to stay the chances are their heart won’t be in it anymore. 
The situation with John Souttar is really a simple one in footballing terms. Hearts can’t afford to give him the wages he can now attract. He is at a stage in his career where he feels he needs to maximise his income, especially given his past injuries must cause some doubt in his mind as to whether he can stay injury free or play into his 30s.

It’s unfortunate that we won’t get a transfer fee to reflect his ability, and we haven’t had much benefit from his last contract in playing time. As long as he doesn’t end up in Glasgow, we should wish him well for his future.

 

All that is fair enough however I feel that the only one on here who's been on the Murphy's.  I don't think it's unreasonable to look for a degree of recognition of the loyalty and support that Hearts has shown JS.  I'd love to think that he would sign a one year extension with a low-ish release clause, recognising all you've mentioned in your post but ensuring that Hearts get remunerated.  

[jambo_trigger]

This is perhaps controversial, but why should we accept losing Souttar for little or nothing. There needs to be a compromise from both parties.

 

We should be saying look we want you to stay, develop further and will make you a top earner within our pay structure as you are a very important player.

 

If this is unacceptable, A deal should be placed in front of him before January which compromises the objectives of both parties. It should make him top earner at the club and have a clause which allows him to leave if a £1.5m - £2m offer is submitted. 
 

If the deal is not signed by the 31st of December. He should be told that if no bid which is acceptable to hearts is offered in January and there is no intention to sign an extension, he will no longer be considered for first team selection for the rest of his contract

 

Stop this infuriating opportunism and strategic weakening of our team through offering players(tapping up) lucrative deals if they wait for pre contracts. Which seems to be a favourite Rangers and Celtic, with crappy offers in January and threats of we’ll get him anyway.

 

Yes, if we wait until January a battle may commence and make more, but we might not receive some crappy ones.

 

I think Souttar is sensible and professional player, who does care about the club. Who would hopefully recognise the need for a compromise. But equally let’s not be nieve as to why it has got to the pre contract precipice. When it is lucrative for the player and other clubs.

[Bongo 1874]

Hearts have nothing to lose offer Souttar 10k a week, if he rejects that then try sell him on. 

 

Straight forward really also may i ask if Souttar has been offered 20k a week by these championship clubs could people show evidence of this? Because the last time i checked Souttar has more than 6 months left on his contract, what does this mean? Legally it means only one club can offer him a contract as it stands and guess what club that is? 

 

Unless people are saying he's being tapped up which if the case this will need to reported, as this is an offence you cannot approach a player unless he has 6 months or less remaining on his contract. 

 

 

 

 

 

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, EH11 said:

 

All that is fair enough however I feel that the only one on here who's been on the Murphy's.  I don't think it's unreasonable to look for a degree of recognition of the loyalty and support that Hearts has shown JS.  I'd love to think that he would sign a one year extension with a low-ish release clause, recognising all you've mentioned in your post but ensuring that Hearts get remunerated.  

I’d love it to be true. Sadly, most footballers don’t have the same loyalty to their club as us fans. It wouldn’t be unreasonable for John Souttar to give Hearts something back. It could end up being more lucrative in the long term for him. I just don’t think it’s happening.

[Hectormasson]

4 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

If he is desperate to go in January and we get offered a shitty price, damn right we should stand in his way.

 

For the sake of 6 month? We’re hardly completely pissing on his chips FFS

Stay till summer and go for 3 million, give the club credit for looking after you,   that I'm sure he will, its only a couple of months...🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦that's if he wants to go......

[jambostuart]

Always slightly frustrates me when I read about understanding footballers needing a big pay day as their career won't last. While I fully appreciate he could make £20k a week elsewhere such is his talent, and as he's not a Hearts fan, has every right to look for that, it's not like he's on sweeties here. A senior player at Hearts is still earning £3-5k a week. That sum of money over three years would see most people set up almost for life. 

I'm aware it's all relative and that's the world and sport we live in, but I do think Souttar showing us some loyalty is in order given how we helped him resurrect his career and while I again I appreciate it's his right to chase a pay day, that to me isn't good enough for me not to be frustrated if we do end up with nothing for him, given he will still be paid handsomely while at Hearts

[tian447]

All the calls to bin Souttar and not let him play for us ever again if he signs a pre-contract are ****ing laughable. 

 

Aye, right, we're not going to play our best defender out of spite.  Especially when we're pushing the top spots in the league 

 

Sometimes I'm really glad fan ownership doesn't extent as far as fan management. 

[Cruyff]

52 minutes ago, tian447 said:

All the calls to bin Souttar and not let him play for us ever again if he signs a pre-contract are ****ing laughable. 

 

Aye, right, we're not going to play our best defender out of spite.  Especially when we're pushing the top spots in the league 

 

Sometimes I'm really glad fan ownership doesn't extent as far as fan management. 

****ing mental mate. 

[The Treasurer]

I wonder how many on this thread going on about loyalty would turn down an offer to double their wages with an other firm. 

Hearts mean a great deal to us, but for most players we are just their current employer. 

 

[Dazo]

8 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Hearts have nothing to lose offer Souttar 10k a week, if he rejects that then try sell him on. 

 

Straight forward really also may i ask if Souttar has been offered 20k a week by these championship clubs could people show evidence of this? Because the last time i checked Souttar has more than 6 months left on his contract, what does this mean? Legally it means only one club can offer him a contract as it stands and guess what club that is? 

 

Unless people are saying he's being tapped up which if the case this will need to reported, as this is an offence you cannot approach a player unless he has 6 months or less remaining on his contract. 

 

 

 

 

 

Its a dangerous game to start offering that sort of wage. Trickle effect through the team will push wages up come  contract negotiation time. I think he deserve to be a top earner but not on that money imo. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Dazo

[Dazo]

10 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Look Souttar is a top class defender.

 

But two of our best footballing performances this season were in games where Moore played for Souttar when JS was injured. Our other best performance was with Moore in the team also.

 

Is Moore better than Souttar? No.

 

But as a team can we perform well without him with Moore in the team? Yes.

 

One man doesn’t make a team and we are better equipped now than in the past to replace a player.

 

 

 

Hard to argue with this. JS is going the quality of the replacement is where our focus should be. Moore is more than capable to take his place until such time. 

[hmfc_liam06]

20 hours ago, Ribble said:

 

If EPL sides aren't looking at him then he needs a better agent, just need to look at Hanley at Norwich or Shane Long at Brighton and you could easily see Souttar playing EPL

EPL sides generally don’t take gambles on players from Scotland (outside of the OF and even then they go to teams at the lower end).

 

Souttar will be pretty well served going to a decent sized Championship side and then potentially on to a mid-level EPL side.

[XB52]

14 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Do you mean that if someone offers £2million we should say nah, £1millions enough.

Of course that's what I meant😳😳

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

EPL sides generally don’t take gambles on players from Scotland (outside of the OF and even then they go to teams at the lower end).

 

Souttar will be pretty well served going to a decent sized Championship side and then potentially on to a mid-level EPL side.

 

Crikey, you sound like my mother: "what's the point of  applying for that job, you'll never get it. The butchers looking for a delivery boy and you might end up getting to serve behind the counter"

[rudi must stay]

What will he want? New car, new house. Let's get the contract sorted on this thread 

[JackLadd]

I'm sure a new motor would swing it.

[Beni]

😄

If Hearts sign a great out of contract player in the summer not one person on here will give a second thought to the club that he left for nowt, but there are folk on this thread performing all kinds of elaborate mental gymnastics to make out Souttar is somehow different to every other player in football.

The club will have offered him an extension within the budget, it's up to him if he wants to sign or not, and if any offers come in during January a decision will have to be made.

 

[Mikey1874]

Good signing on fee from his new club.

 

But probably a chance to develop his career.

[jambokev]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

I'm sure a new motor would swing it.

Hello John gotta new motor ? !   (one for us oldies).

[rudi must stay]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Good signing on fee from his new club.

 

But probably a chance to develop his career.

 

There's no place for that negative chat on this thread 

[AlimOzturk]

Clubs are signing a ready made 5-10 million defender here with the potential to be 20-30 million pound defender. 2million is the minimum price we should take in January 

[tian447]

I think he'll want about 3 more dedicated threads on here.

[Hibs Nil]

16 minutes ago, jambokev said:

Hello John gotta new motor ? !   (one for us oldies).

👏

[milky_26]

15 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Clubs are signing a ready made 5-10 million defender here with the potential to be 20-30 million pound defender. 2million is the minimum price we should take in January 

yep £2M+ in jan or keep him til the summer and try and finish as high as possible, maybe a good run in the scottish cup. you never know we might end up with more subject to qualifying for group stages in europe

[David McCaig]

10 hours ago, jambostuart said:

Always slightly frustrates me when I read about understanding footballers needing a big pay day as their career won't last. While I fully appreciate he could make £20k a week elsewhere such is his talent, and as he's not a Hearts fan, has every right to look for that, it's not like he's on sweeties here. A senior player at Hearts is still earning £3-5k a week. That sum of money over three years would see most people set up almost for life. 

I'm aware it's all relative and that's the world and sport we live in, but I do think Souttar showing us some loyalty is in order given how we helped him resurrect his career and while I again I appreciate it's his right to chase a pay day, that to me isn't good enough for me not to be frustrated if we do end up with nothing for him, given he will still be paid handsomely while at Hearts

 

£5k per week is obviously a very comfortable wage, but its a long way from setting you up for life.

[Drumjambo]

23 hours ago, Robbies Tackle said:

 

None of them.  Celtic want him. 

 

With their revised biscuit tin approach 

[Drumjambo]

So come January if we are still top 3 Its an interesting decision for Robbie

 

Im guessing he'll keep him to the end of the season in that scenario 

 

 

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Drumjambo said:

So come January if we are still top 3 Its an interesting decision for Robbie

 

Im guessing he'll keep him to the end of the season in that scenario 

 

 

Depends if he has an option to bring in someone decent with any fee offered. 

[Jim Panzee]

3 hours ago, David McCaig said:

 

£5k per week is obviously a very comfortable wage, but its a long way from setting you up for life.

yeah - nowhere near enough. presume players are paying tax and NI on that so take home is less. 

 

its only the top flight players earning £25k plus that are setup for life after a couple of big contracts.

[Jim Panzee]

15 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Hearts have nothing to lose offer Souttar 10k a week, if he rejects that then try sell him on. 

 

Straight forward really also may i ask if Souttar has been offered 20k a week by these championship clubs could people show evidence of this? Because the last time i checked Souttar has more than 6 months left on his contract, what does this mean? Legally it means only one club can offer him a contract as it stands and guess what club that is? 

 

Unless people are saying he's being tapped up which if the case this will need to reported, as this is an offence you cannot approach a player unless he has 6 months or less remaining on his contract. 

 

 

 

 

 

how do you manage Gordon, Beni, Devlin, Boyce, Kingsley subsequently knocking on the door asking for more cash?

 

I'd imagine the board have a wage structure which we work within which will not be broken for any player or circumstance. 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Jim Panzee said:

how do you manage Gordon, Beni, Devlin, Boyce, Kingsley subsequently knocking on the door asking for more cash?

 

I'd imagine the board have a wage structure which we work within which will not be broken for any player or circumstance. 

Either pay them enough to secure a big fee or don’t and let them go. 

[Jim Panzee]

9 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Either pay them enough to secure a big fee or don’t and let them go. 

probably have to let them go then, otherwise we end up with a reputation where we give in to player demands and operate outwith our finances

[tian447]

8 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Either pay them enough to secure a big fee or don’t and let them go. 

 

Secure a big fee?

 

Just because a player is on a large contract, doesn't mean we'll get top money for them, otherwise the Vlad years would have had us rolling in multi-million pound player sales.  This is not football manager, and unfortunately, players come toward the end of their contracts without settling on a contract renewal.  It's the way it's been for a long time now.

 

****ing up the entire wage structure led to us ending up in all kinds of bother and nearly losing the club entirely.  A strict budget plan is exactly what we should be aiming for, and it can bend and stretch on the back of success but we shouldn't be remortgaging the house on a "what if".  Too many clubs go all out chasing a dream that will never be reached and end up ****ed.  I'd be keen not to repeat that any time soon.

[AndyNic]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59337275

 

 

[AndyNic]

Looks like Robbie sending a wee message to the board to splash the cash and get him secured.

[kingantti1874]

12 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

probably have to let them go then, otherwise we end up with a reputation where we give in to player demands and operate outwith our finances

i disagree tbh, but it can’t be reckless. 

[kingantti1874]

12 minutes ago, tian447 said:

 

Secure a big fee?

 

Just because a player is on a large contract, doesn't mean we'll get top money for them, otherwise the Vlad years would have had us rolling in multi-million pound player sales.  This is not football manager, and unfortunately, players come toward the end of their contracts without settling on a contract renewal.  It's the way it's been for a long time now.

 

****ing up the entire wage structure led to us ending up in all kinds of bother and nearly losing the club entirely.  A strict budget plan is exactly what we should be aiming for, and it can bend and stretch on the back of success but we shouldn't be remortgaging the house on a "what if".  Too many clubs go all out chasing a dream that will never be reached and end up ****ed.  I'd be keen not to repeat that any time soon.

then we will never be able to retain players or grow the club, will occasionally be great then we will get cherry picked to death. We should be looking at ways to increase our maximum wage.

[Jim Panzee]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

i disagree tbh, but it can’t be reckless. 

no probs.

 

but breaking a wage structure for one player  is a dangerous game to play. turn down other players who genuinely believe they're just as crucial to our success (as my aforementioned player list was) and you run the risk of annoying said players and team morale drops.