Vaccination certificates needed at Tynecastle?

[JoeBugner2]

11 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

If you are inferring, which I suspect you are, that you are more likely to catch COVID if you have been jagged, I refer you back to the points I made earlier.

oh and I am not inferring this - the data confirms this - you are more likely to have COVID currenlty if you are double jagged, than those not double jagged (if you are over 40). 

 

I didnt mention anything about transmission rates which I think is what you are referring to. 

[Heartsofgold]

Just now, been here before said:

 

The informed choice that all the evidence for its long term safety and efficacy isnt there.

 

You've used the arguments about its speed of development, the money thrown at it etc as an argument why everyone should get it if they can.

 

Thats a spurious argument if you cant address the concern over long term effects in the same way.

How can you have long term effects analysis for something that has not even been administered for a year in the general population?

 

Tell me this then?  Take the vaccines out of the equation.  What's your solution?  What would you have the world do?  

 

2 choices as I see them. 

 

1. Keep everyone in lockdown until a long term vaccination study (which is deemed to be 3-5 years out from the initial administering of the vaccine to the test group) is completed and debated in medical and governmental circles to validate the various vaccines safety and efficacy.

 

2. Let everyone get on with their lives with the virus in free circulation to infect as many people as it could and see where the chips land.  Deal with the death toll and the potential overwhelming of the worlds medical infrastructure.

 

Option 2, by the way was the original UK Governments accepted and publicised approach, and even in lockdown the NHS was close to being overwhelmed at the start.  Imagine if the infection rates had continued to rise and people could come and go from old age care homes.

 

Pick one cos that's your choices without the vaccine roll out.

[NANOJAMBO]

21 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

 

As I said, I don't feel the passport scheme is fair or even workable.  It's no more unworkable than asking every boozer & nightclub in the country to demand punters prouduce ID

It's a crock of shit "emotive" , very

and does nothing to help in my opinion. I'll go with the science behind the idea

 

The vaccine argument is emotive and I think I have pointed out my side in this argument.  Vaccines work. hooray !

These ones are different of course they are, they're all different

due to the ultra short timescale of research, development and rollout. Irrelevant 

As I also pointed out, this can be argued away by the massive funding and research sharing via technology which means this vaccine program cannot be compared to others in history.

This is irrelevant. It's no different from the polio vaccine , which faced similar problems of take up in the UK in the 1950s.

 

Do I fully trust governments? You really mean you don't trust the science behind the vacccines ? Can you clarify ? 

No I don't there have been too many instances of them shafting their people. With vaccines ? Where/when ? 

 

Simply put, I want my life to return to 100% the normal life I has in February 2020. We all do and vaccines will help us get there. 

  I hate wearing masks but will continue to do it until there is no requirement to do so.

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[been here before]

13 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

And the potential consequence of doing that is I could have caused a fatal accident mate!!!  That is why I CHOSE not to get it, just like I have chosen to get the vaccines.  Not a 100% solution but my choice to do something I think will help.

 

That's the comparison.

 

No there is no comparison, its a ridiculous analogy...

 

31 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

No, I wanted to but found that I was not a particulaly good or confident driver while learning.  Therefore, as I felt I would be a danger to other road users if I legally got a licence, I decided not to get one.  See the comparison with the original argument?

 

You tried driving, found it wasnt for you so stopped in case you were a danger. In other words you changed your mind after trying it, removed yourself from the situation and possible effects.

 

Is there a way to get the vaccine where if someone decides they dont want it after a while, for whatever reason, lets say unknown side effects in 5 years, that it they could remove it from their body?

[JoeBugner2]

2 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

The number of unvaccinated people used in those calculations is unreliable, it uses people registered with a doctor to count the unvaccinated.

People registered with two doctors are double counted, and some people who have left the country are still registered with a doctor

It's explained at the start of this episode of the statistics programme More Or Less. 

 

The Public Health England report contains a caveat that these figures should not be used to assess vaccine effectiveness, I'm surprised you missed it.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000zkzq

 

If you are telling me I shouldn't trust these government figures and that they are presented in a way that is very misleading then I think that makes a good point also. 

[Boab]

8 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said:

Unless their parents who take them cannot or will not attend. Which prob the majority of younger kids rely on. 

True, but’s that’s where we are with this. To take it out of a footballing context, my reasons for taking up the jab didn’t include getting to the football ! There aren’t really two sides here, Joe. As heart of gold said, I think we’re all a bit pissed off with this but I don’t think for a minute that these rules are long term. Hopefully in a month’s time it might not even be in place when vax numbers get to a point where it’s at an ultimate peak. 
Who knows ?

 

[been here before]

5 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

How can you have long term effects analysis for something that has not even been administered for a year in the general population?

 

Tell me this then?  Take the vaccines out of the equation.  What's your solution?  What would you have the world do?  

 

2 choices as I see them. 

 

1. Keep everyone in lockdown until a long term vaccination study (which is deemed to be 3-5 years out from the initial administering of the vaccine to the test group) is completed and debated in medical and governmental circles to validate the various vaccines safety and efficacy.

 

2. Let everyone get on with their lives with the virus in free circulation to infect as many people as it could and see where the chips land.  Deal with the death toll and the potential overwhelming of the worlds medical infrastructure.

 

Option 2, by the way was the original UK Governments accepted and publicised approach, and even in lockdown the NHS was close to being overwhelmed at the start.  Imagine if the infection rates had continued to rise and people could come and go from old age care homes.

 

Pick one cos that's your choices without the vaccine roll out.

 

Exactly, you've finally got it.

 

And that is where your technology, money, research argument falls squarley on its arse.

 

If you want to get it bash on but you cannot criticise or moan about people not wanting it because as you put it yourself...

 

"How can you have long term effects analysis for something that has not even been administered for a year in the general population?".

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by been here before

[Japan Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

The number of unvaccinated people used in those calculations is unreliable, it uses people registered with a doctor to count the unvaccinated.

People registered with two doctors are double counted, and some people who have left the country are still registered with a doctor

It's explained at the start of this episode of the statistics programme More Or Less. 

 

The Public Health England report contains a caveat that these figures should not be used to assess vaccine effectiveness, I'm surprised you missed it.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000zkzq

 

I could make some specious comment about it being geo blocked but he didn't miss it, he just made a conscious decision to ignore it. You'll also note the selective extraction of facts or comments that support his arguments while washing over those that don't. It's almost as if he has been trained...  

[Beni]

24 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

I think you know as you've chosen to join haven't you or did you just do it cos everybody else did?

 

A simple "no I can't outline the game I claim is happening" would have sufficed. 

But thanks for confirming.

[Costanza]

Tempted to create a business that prints your vaccine passport on a face mask.

That'll sort the queues and annoy the right people.

 

Might add a Maroon star on it as well to signify it's Hearts affiliated.

 

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, been here before said:

 

Exactly, you've finally got it.

 

And that is where your technology, money, research argument falls squarley on its arse.

 

If you want to get it bash on but you cannot criticise or moan about people not wanting it because as you put it yourself...

 

"How can you have long term effects analysis for something that has not even been administered for a year in the general population?".

 

 

So give me YOUR solution without this vaccine!

 

My initial point in all this is get the vaccine or don't, it's your choice but accept that your personal freedoms may be restricted if you don't get it and don't bitch about it if you suffer those restrictions.

 

You can't have it all ways.  This is a public health issue.

[JoeBugner2]

1 minute ago, Boab said:

I don’t think for a minute that these rules are long term.

I sincerely hope you are right!!  But seriously what will you do if it isnt? What will you do if it gets worse? 

 

... and the other day I overheard a 17 year old chatting at seven a sides to his pal saying his birthday is coming up soon so  he needs to get his 2nd jab so he can go to the matches.  I find that disgusting. 

[thewiseone]

1 minute ago, Heartsofgold said:

How can you have long term effects analysis for something that has not even been administered for a year in the general population?

 

Tell me this then?  Take the vaccines out of the equation.  What's your solution?  What would you have the world do?  

 

2 choices as I see them. 

 

1. Keep everyone in lockdown until a long term vaccination study (which is deemed to be 3-5 years out from the initial administering of the vaccine to the test group) is completed and debated in medical and governmental circles to validate the various vaccines safety and efficacy.

 

2. Let everyone get on with their lives with the virus in free circulation to infect as many people as it could and see where the chips land.  Deal with the death toll and the potential overwhelming of the worlds medical infrastructure.

 

Option 2, by the way was the original UK Governments accepted and publicised approach, and even in lockdown the NHS was close to being overwhelmed at the start.  Imagine if the infection rates had continued to rise and people could come and go from old age care homes.

 

Pick one cos that's your choices without the vaccine roll out.

When we relenquish our own personal power in times of coercion we invariably  and unwittingly hand that power to the other, person or persons manipulating.

[JudyJudyJudy]

50 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/vaccines-are-highly-unlikely-to-cause-side-effects-long-after-getting-the-shot-

Stop being so naive 

47 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

It's become evident that those following a particular political persuasion have negated their ability to discern, perhaps in some sort of warped party protocol or belief in following the leader.It's part of the brain washing and stealth that has worked to arrive at this point and all this time they've  been allowed to be consumed by the fight for freedom and that of independence. It seems this issue has clouded their ability to think clearly as regards health. Accepting the party line doesn't make it right! Arguing for it is a clear sign of a " lack of wisdom".

Enjoy the game little do you know but your players in it, take your boots just in case! 

 

Probably the most perverse response to date! Is your  head on upside down! 

Yes there is a massive correlation with that SNP fan boys and vaccine zealots . One in the same . They can’t seem to be critical of Frau Sturgeon 

43 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

No I can't and, as I have just responded to JM48, if there are consequences later on then so be it.  I have trusted that those vaccines are as safe as they can be.

 

You don't accept that argument that's fine.  I, and billions of other people, will pay the price in later. 

 

Let's put it this way.  Without the vaccines, the world would still be shut down and we would be having a whole different debate.

Safe as they can be ? after less than a year ? Wake up 

41 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

Was part of the reason you not taking your test because you didnt fancy having a car injected into your body and hoping for the best re short term side effects and not having a clue about the long term ones?

 

Thats about the only way your comparison would work.

 

It really was a silly analogy 

40 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said:

😂😂

37 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

I can accept those arguments- no problem. Its people like you who post the kind of post you made who cant accept the other side of the arguments. You're only arguing half the argument whilst ignoring a massive part of it because it doesnt suit.

 

You're raging because some people have sat down and made a more informed choice than perhaps you have.

In a nutshell . Stamping his feet because people Made An informed choice . 

35 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Why would he be raging? He can go where he wants with his vaccine ID. 

 

And why are those who have been vaccinated raging at those unvaccinated . It shouldn’t matter one jot to them 

33 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Welcome to late 1930's Germany everyone. 

It’s a perfectly legitimate comparison 

28 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 
You should really think before you post at times Ray. 
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

👍👍

24 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Too late !

I have already had the vaccine twice and soon to get the booster 👍

From a purely personal point of view

I don't need to worry about side effects 20/30 years down the line. 

I'm seventy and already on enough BP and diabetes medication. 

At my time of life refusing a vaccine that's going to stop me getting seriously ill would be like a suicide note. 

I can understand the concerns younger people might have but they should be cautious about where they are getting their 'informed opinion' from. 

Well says it all . A 70 years old with the “ I’m all right Jack “ attitude . To think of the sacrifices young people , young adults and children made to

ensure your age group were safe from harm And you don’t give seem to about how some might now be excluded from various areas of society ? 

23 minutes ago, luckydug said:

This is not helping the debate 🙁

You should know 

17 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

The informed choice that all the evidence for its long term safety and efficacy isnt there.

 

You've used the arguments about its speed of development, the money thrown at it etc as an argument why everyone should get it if they can.

 

Thats a spurious argument if you cant address the concern over long term effects in the same way.

He can’t 

[JoeBugner2]

Just now, Heartsofgold said:

So give me YOUR solution without this vaccine!

If you are ill stay in your house. 

If you are ill and need to go out, wear a mask. 

If you are vulnerable or elderly follow the above and consider the jags. 

 

Thats it.

[Heartsofgold]

As Boab pointed out, I also don't think this rule will be long term as it will be completely unworkable and the there is no real evidence that large gatherings are superspreader events.

 

For what it's worth I hope each and every one of us on here can get to the Hearts games completely unhindered ASAP, vaccinated or not.

 

I'm double vaxxed and if I get the virus, so be it.  I'm as protected as I can be.

[thewiseone]

7 minutes ago, Boab said:

True, but’s that’s where we are with this. To take it out of a footballing context, my reasons for taking up the jab didn’t include getting to the football ! There aren’t really two sides here, Joe. As heart of gold said, I think we’re all a bit pissed off with this but I don’t think for a minute that these rules are long term. Hopefully in a month’s time it might not even be in place when vax numbers get to a point where it’s at an ultimate peak. 
Who knows ?

 

They say hopes are for dopes!

[Boab]

1 minute ago, thewiseone said:

When we relenquish our own personal power in times of coercion we invariably  and unwittingly hand that power to the other, person or persons manipulating.

You and I, and everyone on here have done that our entire lives. Read some Machiavelli. As true now as when it was written.

[been here before]

7 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

So give me YOUR solution without this vaccine!

 

My initial point in all this is get the vaccine or don't, it's your choice but accept that your personal freedoms may be restricted if you don't get it and don't bitch about it if you suffer those restrictions.

 

You can't have it all ways.  This is a public health issue.

 

I dont have a solution, never claimed to have had one. I leave that to folk who sit on messageboards telling people how they should live their lives, what they should have injected into their bodies and what restrictions they should have placed upon them.

 

The 2 'alternatives' you provided though...

 

No 1 is essentially you're part of a massive worldwide medication trial whilst No 2 well you've no way of knowing that wont happen as a long term effect of the vaccine.

 

You've as much as admitted that yourself.

 

Can you see why it might not sit too well with some folk?

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by been here before

[Heartsofgold]

2 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said:

If you are ill stay in your house. 

If you are ill and need to go out, wear a mask. 

If you are vulnerable or elderly follow the above and consider the jags. 

 

Thats it.

But, just like the cold, some people don't even know they have the virus and can still spread it. 

There will always be those who still go to work or a social gathering even when they feel like hell.

[Boab]

5 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said:

I sincerely hope you are right!!  But seriously what will you do if it isnt? What will you do if it gets worse? 

 

... and the other day I overheard a 17 year old chatting at seven a sides to his pal saying his birthday is coming up soon so  he needs to get his 2nd jab so he can go to the matches.  I find that disgusting. 

It’s not worse. Nor will it get so. This time last year we were going into another lockdown. The vaccine programme has ensured that will never happen again.

[Boab]

4 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

They say hopes are for dopes!

Do they aye ?

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, Boab said:

True, but’s that’s where we are with this. To take it out of a footballing context, my reasons for taking up the jab didn’t include getting to the football ! There aren’t really two sides here, Joe. As heart of gold said, I think we’re all a bit pissed off with this but I don’t think for a minute that these rules are long term. Hopefully in a month’s time it might not even be in place when vax numbers get to a point where it’s at an ultimate peak. 
Who knows ?

 

Oh please wake up ! “ I don’t think these rules are long term “ ! 

7 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said:

I sincerely hope you are right!!  But seriously what will you do if it isnt? What will you do if it gets worse? 

 

... and the other day I overheard a 17 year old chatting at seven a sides to his pal saying his birthday is coming up soon so  he needs to get his 2nd jab so he can go to the matches.  I find that disgusting. 

So sad to hear this . Imagine having to take a vaccine so you can go to a football match 

4 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

As Boab pointed out, I also don't think this rule will be long term as it will be completely unworkable and the there is no real evidence that large gatherings are superspreader events.

 

For what it's worth I hope each and every one of us on here can get to the Hearts games completely unhindered ASAP, vaccinated or not.

 

I'm double vaxxed and if I get the virus, so be it.  I'm as protected as I can be.

Another one needs to wake up.  

[Beni]

18 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said:

 

If you are telling me I shouldn't trust these government figures and that they are presented in a way that is very misleading then I think that makes a good point also. 

 

You should probably have read the report including the caveat I mentioned.

That way you'd understand the screenshots you're sharing and the claims you're making, and you wouldn't look as silly as you do now. 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Beni

[thewiseone]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

You and I, and everyone on here have done that our entire lives. Read some Machiavelli. As true now as when it was written.

Not so sure I have but.....certainly tried not to ..thanks for the advice!

[thewiseone]

1 minute ago, Boab said:

Do they aye ?

 

👏👏👏👏👏

[Boab]

4 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

I dont have a solution, never claimed to have had one. I leave that to folk who sit on messageboards telling people how they should live their lives, what they should have injected into their bodies and what restrictions they should have placed upon them.

 

The 2 'alternatives' you provided though...

 

No 1 is essentially you're part of a massive worldwide medication trial whilst No 2 well you've no way of knowing that wont happen as a long term effect of the vaccine.

 

You've as much as admitted that yourself.

 

 

No one on here is telling anyone else what they should do. 

[thewiseone]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh please wake up ! “ I don’t think these rules are long term “ ! 

So sad to hear this . Imagine having to take a vaccine so you can go to a football match 

Another one needs to wake up.  

Good post!

[Heartsofgold]

Just now, been here before said:

 

I dont have a solution, never claimed to have had one. I leave that to folk who sit on messageboards telling people how they should live their lives, what they should have injected into their bodies and what restrictions they should have placed upon them.

 

The 2 'alternatives' you provided though...

 

No 1 is essentially you're part of a massive worldwide medication trial whilst No 2 well you've no way of knowing that wont happen as a long term effect of the vaccine.

 

You've as much as admitted that yourself.

 

 

As I said, pick one as the solution without the vaccines.  Those are the alternatives.

 

1st one we wait.  Perfectly legitimate but with untold harm to peoples mental and physical health due to the imposed isolation.  I know I was climbing the walls at home with no adult contact outside my wife for 6/7 months.

 

2nd one.  Well the less said about that option the better.  I think the death toll would have been horrendous, especially amongst the elderly and those other people at risk to this virus (of which I am one).

 

BHB, I understand your arguments, I really do, but given the stark choices given I'm willing to take a chance on the vaccines.  I'm nearly 50 and with life limiting illnesses so the vaccines was never really a choice for me.  Others it may be but they have to accept the consequences of their actions.  I have accepted mine. 

[Boab]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh please wake up ! “ I don’t think these rules are long term “ ! 

So sad to hear this . Imagine having to take a vaccine so you can go to a football match 

Another one needs to wake up.  

How long do you think they will be in place then ?

I’ve given my opinion, let’s hear yours !

[Costanza]

Amused that folk are thinking vaccine passports* are the start of a slippery approach to reduced civil freedoms.

I'm guessing the passing of the Police Protest Bill and proposals for Voter ID didn't have the same resonance with a hassle when getting into Tynecastle.

 

btw on the usual sh1te about the long term impacts of the vaccine; almost all vaccine monitoring shows that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving your vaccine dose.

Uninformed scepticism v medical and scientific expertise; hmm who to listen to...

 

 

*I'm not a fan of these btw but it's not the start of something more sinister, it's just a crude and likely largely ineffective method to reduce transmission.

[Heartsofgold]

10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh please wake up ! “ I don’t think these rules are long term “ ! 

So sad to hear this . Imagine having to take a vaccine so you can go to a football match 

Another one needs to wake up.  

The laws may remain on the statute books for hundreds of years to come and may never be repealed, just like this lot.

 

https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/18753224.9-bizarre-laws-still-exist-scotland---probably-already-broken/ 

 

Any one of these will see you break the law and be subject to judicial punishment.

[Heartsofgold]

2 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Amused that folk are thinking vaccine passports* are the start of a slippery approach to reduced civil freedoms.

I'm guessing the passing of the Police Protest Bill and proposals for Voter ID didn't have the same resonance with a hassle when getting into Tynecastle.

 

btw on the usual sh1te about the long term impacts of the vaccine; almost all vaccine monitoring shows that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving your vaccine dose.

Uninformed scepticism v medical and scientific expertise; hmm who to listen to...

 

 

*I'm not a fan of these btw but it's not the start of something more sinister, it's just a crude and likely largely ineffective method to reduce transmission.

Bingo.

[thewiseone]

6 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Amused that folk are thinking vaccine passports* are the start of a slippery approach to reduced civil freedoms.

I'm guessing the passing of the Police Protest Bill and proposals for Voter ID didn't have the same resonance with a hassle when getting into Tynecastle.

 

btw on the usual sh1te about the long term impacts of the vaccine; almost all vaccine monitoring shows that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving your vaccine dose.

Uninformed scepticism v medical and scientific expertise; hmm who to listen to...

 

 

*I'm not a fan of these btw but it's not the start of something more sinister, it's just a crude and likely largely ineffective method to reduce transmission.

Sounds to me you are trying to convince yourself of something, wonder what that would be🤔. I take it your another who has been played and started to question that choice. Not surprising, well welcome you on the light side in a week or two!

[Boab]

1 minute ago, thewiseone said:

Sounds to me you are trying to convince yourself of something, wonder what that would be🤔. I take it your another who has been played and started to question that choice. Not surprising, well welcome you on the light side in a week or two!

You still going on about this supposed enlightened position you and others seem to be on ?

Thought we had agreed it was naive…in the extreme !

[Costanza]

Just now, thewiseone said:

Sounds to me you are trying to convince yourself of something, wonder what that would be🤔. I take it your another who has been played and started to question that choice. Not surprising, well welcome you on the light side in a week or two!

You're clearly wiser than me as I'm not sure what you are trying to infer here.

I have great swathes of criticism with the UK and Scottish Governments approach to covid but I'm not into conspiracies on the passport or the vaccine itself.

[Auldbenches]

Big brother, Germany 1936 etc.  Ffs. 

And it's the politicians that like to use fear fillied rhetoric...

What's next on the agenda when it comes to our freedoms?  

[thewiseone]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

You still going on about this supposed enlightened position you and others seem to be on ?

Thought we had agreed it was naive…in the extreme !

Your back assuming! 

[thewiseone]

2 minutes ago, Costanza said:

You're clearly wiser than me as I'm not sure what you are trying to infer here.

I have great swathes of criticism with the UK and Scottish Governments approach to covid but I'm not into conspiracies on the passport or the vaccine itself.

Thank you but You do yourself a disservice. No me neither, there's no conspiracy, just those who choose not to see, listen, learn and discern.

[Taffin]

Very pleased passports for those not vaccinated in Scotland has been ironed out and the club where very quick to respond to me when I eventually enquired about it, so fair play to them on that.

 

In a swift kick in the stones though, I've since developed a requirement to be back down south on Saturday 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

 

Not so gutted though as I now know I'll be able to attend in future and this weekend was always a bit of hit and hope by trying to marry up two separate events.

 

 

Still think vaccine passports are wrong though in general but glad me and my old man will get to more games from a selfish perspective.

[JudyJudyJudy]

41 minutes ago, Boab said:

No one on here is telling anyone else what they should do. 

Yes they are , they are telling people to take the vaccine if they want to participate fully in society 

36 minutes ago, Boab said:

How long do you think they will be in place then ?

I’ve given my opinion, let’s hear yours !

As long as the gullible public believe it has any impact 

39 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

As I said, pick one as the solution without the vaccines.  Those are the alternatives.

 

1st one we wait.  Perfectly legitimate but with untold harm to peoples mental and physical health due to the imposed isolation.  I know I was climbing the walls at home with no adult contact outside my wife for 6/7 months.

 

2nd one.  Well the less said about that option the better.  I think the death toll would have been horrendous, especially amongst the elderly and those other people at risk to this virus (of which I am one).

 

BHB, I understand your arguments, I really do, but given the stark choices given I'm willing to take a chance on the vaccines.  I'm nearly 50 and with life limiting illnesses so the vaccines was never really a choice for me.  Others it may be but they have to accept the consequences of their actions.  I have accepted mine. 

Well at least your admitting that due to your own circumstances you don’t mind that others as basically not allowed in joining things in society ? See I have also had a serious illness this year and also have a long term chronic condition but I’ve made my own personal risk assessment and not demanded that others should take a vaccine to protect my health . Im

Not saying you have but it’s been an entirely selfish argument from some . I believe in choice and don’t think people should be punished making their choices 

Edited September 30, 2021 by JamesM48

[Costanza]

5 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Thank you but You do yourself a disservice. No me neither, there's no conspiracy, just those who choose not to see, listen, learn and discern.

That's a bit too vague for me. If I'm being played, then would rather you point me to the substance that I'm choosing not to see (or seeing but interpreting differently).

[Heartsofgold]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes they are , they are telling people to take the vaccine if they want to participate fully in society 

As long as the gullible public believe it has any impact 

Well at least your admitting that due to your own circumstances you don’t mind that others as basically not allowed in joining things in society ? See I have also had a serious illness this year and also have a long term chronic condition but I’ve made my own personal risk assessment and not demanded that others should take a vaccine to protect my health . Im

Not saying you have but it’s been an entirely selfish argument from some . I believe in choice and don’t think people should be punished making their choices 

100% not my reasons.  If you don't get it then that's your choice.  I got it for me with the (potential) added benefit that I may protect others.

 

As someone insinuated, humans are a selfish being and I'm no different.

[Boab]

24 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Your back assuming! 

I’m only taking what is being said.

It was alluded to earlier in the thread.

To paraphrase, “ They’re trying to control us….I’m not giving them my information…”

 

While typing on the internet !

 

Laughable and sad in equal measure !

And we’re the gullible ones ?

😂

 

[chuck berrys hairline]

What about people who have only had one dose? Are we half vaccinated or vaccinated. I don't see the point in having two jags never had two of anything else required via vaccination before. Are we persecuted or allowed in?

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

100% not my reasons.  If you don't get it then that's your choice.  I got it for me with the (potential) added benefit that I may protect others.

 

As someone insinuated, humans are a selfish being and I'm no different.

Well I obviously got it too with reservations but no way would I ever argue that everyone should get it . It’s an individuals choice . 

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Well I obviously got it too with reservations but no way would I ever argue that everyone should get it . It’s an individuals choice . 

I agree it's their choice but they also have to realise that a 'negative' choice can have 'negative' consequences.  That's all my argument it really.

 

Someone called my analogy of my driving choice as ridiculous.  Sorry, I don't see it as being ridiculous.  I chose not to drive as I never felt confident driving and, while yes I may have got better with time and practice, I didn't feel that way and was worried about hurting myself and others while driving.  Therefore, if I chose to move forward with getting a licence, this would represent a risk. 

 

I actually see this as a 'negative' choice for me as I have had to turn down career opportunities in the past as I couldn't drive.  I accepted these consequences though.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Heartsofgold

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Boab said:

I’m only taking what is being said.

It was alluded to earlier in the thread.

To paraphrase, “ They’re trying to control us….I’m not giving them my information…”

 

While typing on the internet !

 

Laughable and sad in equal measure !

And we’re the gullible ones ?

😂

 

Lol so I got to you with my “ gullible “ comment . How gullible 😂

3 minutes ago, chuck berrys hairline said:

What about people who have only had one dose? Are we half vaccinated or vaccinated. I don't see the point in having two jags never had two of anything else required via vaccination before. Are we persecuted or allowed in?

You get to watch the first half 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Heartsofgold said:

I agree it's their choice but they also have to realise that a 'negative' choice can have 'negative' consequences.  That's all my argument it really.

It’s still not right no matter how you spin it .

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

I agree it's their choice but they also have to realise that a 'negative' choice can have 'negative' consequences.  That's all my argument it really.

There u go again , value judgments stating it’s a “ negative “ choice ! Explain