Japan Jambo Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: You probably thought this was a great posting ? It’s not . You lost me in the first sentence by discrediting people regarding their “ faux outrage “ . The vaccine is still in its early stages so it’s safety and efficacy is still in question. If it’s that’s safe are vaccinated people landing in Hospital ? Horribly patronising posting Yes vaccinated folks are landing in hospital but at a much lower rate than those who are unvaccinated. I believe the facts clearly belie your assertion that the vaccines are not efficacious. With regard to safety there have of course been side effects identified with all of the vaccines deployed, statistics show that these are outweighed in age groups I6+ which is why there was a stooshie around vaccinating 12-15 year old's. I understand the argument that long term effects may well exist that aren't yet know. At the end of the day folks are free to make up their own mind but I'd implore them to do so based on the facts and not internet disinformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, been here before said: Given a the money, all the testing, all the technological advancements, could you tell us what side effects, if any, we should expect a year, 2 years, 5, 10, or 15 years down the line? https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/vaccines-are-highly-unlikely-to-cause-side-effects-long-after-getting-the-shot- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, JamesM48 said: Only due to blackmail and coercion . Despicable This virus is here to stay. Is it wrong for people to get a jab that can help prevent the transmission and also vastly reduce the chances of you getting ill with a highly transmissable illness if that jab is as safe as we can make it. Sorry JM48, I can't accept the premise of not getting it if you are able to. Personal choice is does not absolve people of consequences for their choice. This is one of the consequences of this choice. I have chosen to never sit a driving test therefore I can never legally drive a motor vehicle. I accept that consequence of this action which has seriously restricted my career path and the lives of my family as I cannot drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewiseone Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 It's become evident that those following a particular political persuasion have negated their ability to discern, perhaps in some sort of warped party protocol or belief in following the leader.It's part of the brain washing and stealth that has worked to arrive at this point and all this time they've been allowed to be consumed by the fight for freedom and that of independence. It seems this issue has clouded their ability to think clearly as regards health. Accepting the party line doesn't make it right! Arguing for it is a clear sign of a " lack of wisdom". Enjoy the game little do you know but your players in it, take your boots just in case! 4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Why don't you just stay in your house if you don't want to get the big scary jab? Let others get on with their lives. Probably the most perverse response to date! Is your head on upside down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, Ray Gin said: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/vaccines-are-highly-unlikely-to-cause-side-effects-long-after-getting-the-shot- "Highly unlikely" isnt really where Im aiming. The poster stated "That statistic, in itself, is proof of the various vaccines safety and efficacy". Its reasonable therefor for him to provide the statistics into long term safety and efficacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, thewiseone said: Probably the most perverse response to date! Is your head on upside down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBugner2 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said: Yes vaccinated folks are landing in hospital but at a much lower rate than those who are unvaccinated. I believe the facts clearly belie your assertion that the vaccines are not efficacious. With regard to safety there have of course been side effects identified with all of the vaccines deployed, statistics show that these are outweighed in age groups I6+ which is why there was a stooshie around vaccinating 12-15 year old's. I understand the argument that long term effects may well exist that aren't yet know. At the end of the day folks are free to make up their own mind but I'd implore them to do so based on the facts and not internet disinformation. oh you missed this one, which is probaly more relevant to vaccine passports... for anyone over 40 you are much more likely to have Covid if you ARE vaccinated. Maybe we should enforce an age limit at the stadium? Dont be surpised if they do that by the way , thats how crazy all this stuff is. Lets see who starts objecting then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 16 minutes ago, Mars plastic said: Tremendous postings from the 80's white hope. He got his lights punched out frequently iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Reynolds Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 This thread has just turned into a competition of who can be the most outraged. 15 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I’ve printed a copy of certificate off and will stick in my pocket for the game. Not that big a deal for me. The implementation of the passport scheme in the wider sense has been very poor and the poor roll out will see it fail. It’s not difficult to do effectively either imo, hey ho, many ideas been scuppered by pish implementation. Pretty much where I'm at with everything. I can see it being canned fairly quickly to be honest. Numbers will keep going down and a decision will be made in line with the data blah blah blah. 17 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Why don't you just stay in your house if you don't want to get the big scary jab? Let others get on with their lives. 👏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, been here before said: Just out of interest, and lets call it fourthly... Given a the money, all the testing, all the technological advancements, could you tell us what side effects, if any, we should expect a year, 2 years, 5, 10, or 15 years down the line? Im asking as Im wasnt sure anyone knew until you came along. No I can't and, as I have just responded to JM48, if there are consequences later on then so be it. I have trusted that those vaccines are as safe as they can be. You don't accept that argument that's fine. I, and billions of other people, will pay the price in later. Let's put it this way. Without the vaccines, the world would still be shut down and we would be having a whole different debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Looks like there's plenty on here who will be driving to Tynie with their masks on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBugner2 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said: oh you missed this one, which is probaly more relevant to vaccine passports... for anyone over 40 you are much more likely to have Covid if you ARE vaccinated. Maybe we should enforce an age limit at the stadium? Dont be surpised if they do that by the way , thats how crazy all this stuff is. Lets see who starts objecting then! oh I posted the old data actually , here is the latest ... and it is getting worse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said: I have chosen to never sit a driving test therefore I can never legally drive a motor vehicle. I accept that consequence of this action which has seriously restricted my career path and the lives of my family as I cannot drive. Was part of the reason you not taking your test because you didnt fancy having a car injected into your body and hoping for the best re short term side effects and not having a clue about the long term ones? Thats about the only way your comparison would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewiseone Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said: This virus is here to stay. Is it wrong for people to get a jab that can help prevent the transmission and also vastly reduce the chances of you getting ill with a highly transmissable illness if that jab is as safe as we can make it. Sorry JM48, I can't accept the premise of not getting it if you are able to. Personal choice is does not absolve people of consequences for their choice. This is one of the consequences of this choice. I have chosen to never sit a driving test therefore I can never legally drive a motor vehicle. I accept that consequence of this action which has seriously restricted my career path and the lives of my family as I cannot drive. Nope you win it! This isn't action it's in- action. When you talk of trust you've been misguided in placing trust in others . There's a level below this, it's called " trusting yourself". For you to find this you must first have confidence in yourself. Ah that age old Scottish problem - lack of self confidence, now where have I seen that before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, been here before said: Was part of the reason you not taking your test because you didnt fancy having a car injected into your body and hoping for the best re short term side effects and not having a clue about the long term ones? Quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBugner2 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, thewiseone said: Enjoy the game little do you know but your players in it, take your boots just in case Since you seem to know all about it, can you outline in your own words exactly what the game is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, been here before said: Was part of the reason you not taking your test because you didnt fancy having a car injected into your body and hoping for the best re short term side effects and not having a clue about the long term ones? Thats about the only way your comparison would work. No, I wanted to but found that I was not a particulaly good or confident driver while learning. Therefore, as I felt I would be a danger to other road users if I legally got a licence, I decided not to get one. See the comparison with the original argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, been here before said: "Highly unlikely" isnt really where Im aiming. The poster stated "That statistic, in itself, is proof of the various vaccines safety and efficacy". Its reasonable therefor for him to provide the statistics into long term safety and efficacy. All drugs have side effects. You've got to balance the good they do against the side effects. If we can't trust the medical profession then we are really goosed imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said: No I can't and, as I have just responded to JM48, if there are consequences later on then so be it. I have trusted that those vaccines are as safe as they can be. You don't accept that argument that's fine. I, and billions of other people, will pay the price in later. Let's put it this way. Without the vaccines, the world would still be shut down and we would be having a whole different debate. I can accept those arguments- no problem. Its people like you who post the kind of post you made who cant accept the other side of the arguments. You're only arguing half the argument whilst ignoring a massive part of it because it doesnt suit. You're raging because some people have sat down and made a more informed choice than perhaps you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, been here before said: I can accept those arguments- no problem. Its people like you who post the kind of post you made who cant accept the other side of the arguments. You're only arguing half the argument whilst ignoring a massive part of it because it doesnt suit. You're raging because some people have sat down and made a more informed choice than perhaps you have. Why would he be raging? He can go where he wants with his vaccine ID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBugner2 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, luckydug said: All drugs have side effects. You've got to balance the good they do against the side effects. If we can't trust the medical profession then we are really goosed imo. Serioulsly.... please just googe pfizer history ... you CANNOT trust these guys... at all... its not even an argument. .. and thats the thing ... you will read all that and still not change your mind about anything.... I gaurantee it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Ray Gin said: Why would he be raging? He can go where he wants with his vaccine ID. Welcome to late 1930's Germany everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Heartsofgold said: No, I wanted to but found that I was not a particulaly good or confident driver while learning. Therefore, as I felt I would be a danger to other road users if I legally got a licence, I decided not to get one. See the comparison with the original argument? No, theres no comparison. You could have worked on your confidence passed your test or waited a while and tried again, perhaps drove for a while and then changed your mind and thought 'nah its no for me I dint like it, Ill just leave it' and never set foot in a car again. Can you change your mind about an injection if a few years later something crops up due to it and it isnt for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, JoeBugner2 said: oh you missed this one, which is probaly more relevant to vaccine passports... for anyone over 40 you are much more likely to have Covid if you ARE vaccinated. Maybe we should enforce an age limit at the stadium? Dont be surpised if they do that by the way , thats how crazy all this stuff is. Lets see who starts objecting then! The response was specifically in regard to hospital admissions, at no point have I advocated passports. Seen them in force in Germany over the summer and I want nothing to do with them, I happen to think the back to normal approach here in London is what is needed. Completely different issue from the need to get vaccinated though. With regard to what you've highlighted above I note you have chosen to ignore the two age groups that contradict your point, regardless I'd be very careful of the stats in this block as they are somewhat self selecting in that they rely on folks taking NHS tests. I'd posit that those that don't trust medical science are much less likely to take those tests. What is irrefutable is someone occupying a hospital bed and for that the numbers are clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, Ray Gin said: Why would he be raging? He can go where he wants with his vaccine ID. Exactly. And people who haven’t got it, can’t ! No gloating, just stating a fact. Why would people be raging when they can do anything ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Why would he be raging? He can go where he wants with his vaccine ID. Youd have to ask him that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBugner2 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 ... and to clarify something a lot of folk here talking about risks of vaccines vs rewards etc. You are maybe confusing this with someone who is SICK considering a treatment that has side effects. That is a valid risk based decision for the doctor and the patient. Giving a HEALTHY child something which may harm them is totally different. It is NOT ethical. In the past any adverse effects or deaths then the vaccine or treatment would be pulled. Even killing one person to save 1000 sick people is not a path we can go down. Think about where that can lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 33 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Why don't you just stay in your house if you don't want to get the big scary jab? Let others get on with their lives. You should really think before you post at times Ray. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewiseone Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, JoeBugner2 said: ... and to clarify something a lot of folk here talking about risks of vaccines vs rewards etc. You are maybe confusing this with someone who is SICK considering a treatment that has side effects. That is a valid risk based decision for the doctor and the patient. Giving a HEALTHY child something which may harm them is totally different. It is NOT ethical. In the past any adverse effects or deaths then the vaccine or treatment would be pulled. Even killing one person to save 1000 sick people is not a path we can go down. Think about where that can lead. Stretching a bit there! Asking the vaxxed on here to start thinking. What next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBugner2 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said: The response was specifically in regard to hospital admissions, at no point have I advocated passports. Seen them in force in Germany over the summer and I want nothing to do with them, I happen to think the back to normal approach here in London is what is needed. Completely different issue from the need to get vaccinated though. With regard to what you've highlighted above I note you have chosen to ignore the two age groups that contradict your point, regardless I'd be very careful of the stats in this block as they are somewhat self selecting in that they rely on folks taking NHS tests. I'd posit that those that don't trust medical science are much less likely to take those tests. What is irrefutable is someone occupying a hospital bed and for that the numbers are clear. Glad you agree.... however effective the vaccines are at preventing hospitalisation or deaths(which I agree with and am pleased at) , the data is clear that for those vaccinated first, ie the over 40s, they are more likley now to have Covid.... and a perfectly valid reason on its own that Vaccine Passports are ridiculous. ... and also confirms why there will be (maybe never ending) boosters required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Is there a court case going on trying to prevent the introduction of the passports? Overheard someone saying it was one of the Unions doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBugner2 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said: oh I posted the old data actually , here is the latest ... and it is getting worse.... ... and just to be clear anybody still thinking these vaccine passports are about health and the protection of those in the stadium then this data blows that out the water - Jaws I stlye 😉 Edited September 30, 2021 by JoeBugner2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Just now, JoeBugner2 said: Serioulsly.... please just googe pfizer history ... you CANNOT trust these guys... at all... its not even an argument. .. and thats the thing ... you will read all that and still not change your mind about anything.... I gaurantee it. Too late ! I have already had the vaccine twice and soon to get the booster 👍 From a purely personal point of view I don't need to worry about side effects 20/30 years down the line. I'm seventy and already on enough BP and diabetes medication. At my time of life refusing a vaccine that's going to stop me getting seriously ill would be like a suicide note. I can understand the concerns younger people might have but they should be cautious about where they are getting their 'informed opinion' from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, been here before said: I can accept those arguments- no problem. Its people like you who post the kind of post you made who cant accept the other side of the arguments. You're only arguing half the argument whilst ignoring a massive part of it because it doesnt suit. You're raging because some people have sat down and made a more informed choice than perhaps you have. What informed choice BHB? Following the minority or dissenting opinion in medical matters? Look, let's agree to disagree. As I said, I don't feel the passport scheme is fair or even workable. It's a crock of shit and does nothing to help in my opinion. The vaccine argument is emotive and I think I have pointed out my side in this argument. Vaccines work. These ones are different due to the ultra short timescale of research, development and rollout. As I also pointed out, this can be argued away by the massive funding and research sharing via technology which means this vaccine program cannot be compared to others in history. Do I fully trust governments? No I don't there have been too many instances of them shafting their people. Simply put, I want my life to return to 100% the normal life I has in February 2020. I hate wearing masks but will continue to do it until there is no requirement to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said: ... and to clarify something a lot of folk here talking about risks of vaccines vs rewards etc. You are maybe confusing this with someone who is SICK considering a treatment that has side effects. That is a valid risk based decision for the doctor and the patient. Giving a HEALTHY child something which may harm them is totally different. It is NOT ethical. In the past any adverse effects or deaths then the vaccine or treatment would be pulled. Even killing one person to save 1000 sick people is not a path we can go down. Think about where that can lead. Keeping it in the context of Vax passports for the football, any U18 can rock up to Tynecastle on Sat. Vaccinations are not mandatory for anyone and, as regards kids, matter not a jot at the football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, Mars plastic said: Welcome to late 1930's Germany everyone. This is not helping the debate 🙁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewiseone Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, Beni said: Since you seem to know all about it, can you outline in your own words exactly what the game is? I think you know as you've chosen to join haven't you or did you just do it cos everybody else did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, luckydug said: This is not helping the debate 🙁 Disagree. The analogy is entirely appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, been here before said: No, theres no comparison. You could have worked on your confidence passed your test or waited a while and tried again, perhaps drove for a while and then changed your mind and thought 'nah its no for me I dint like it, Ill just leave it' and never set foot in a car again. Can you change your mind about an injection if a few years later something crops up due to it and it isnt for you? And the potential consequence of doing that is I could have caused a fatal accident mate!!! That is why I CHOSE not to get it, just like I have chosen to get the vaccines. Not a 100% solution but my choice to do something I think will help. That's the comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, thewiseone said: Stretching a bit there! Asking the vaxxed on here to start thinking. What next! If we are already vaxxed why are you lecturing us. You're wasting your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, JoeBugner2 said: Glad you agree.... however effective the vaccines are at preventing hospitalisation or deaths(which I agree with and am pleased at) , the data is clear that for those vaccinated first, ie the over 40s, they are more likley now to have Covid.... and a perfectly valid reason on its own that Vaccine Passports are ridiculous. ... and also confirms why there will be (maybe never ending) boosters required. Going to have to stop feeding you as this isn't my day job (though I do strongly suspect it is yours!) but quickly; All those vaccinated now have COVID antibodies unless they are immunocompromised or the effects have worn off, so yes more likely to have COVID. If you are inferring, which I suspect you are, that you are more likely to catch COVID if you have been jagged, I refer you back to the points I made earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said: What informed choice BHB? Following the minority or dissenting opinion in medical matters? Look, let's agree to disagree. As I said, I don't feel the passport scheme is fair or even workable. It's a crock of shit and does nothing to help in my opinion. The vaccine argument is emotive and I think I have pointed out my side in this argument. Vaccines work. These ones are different due to the ultra short timescale of research, development and rollout. As I also pointed out, this can be argued away by the massive funding and research sharing via technology which means this vaccine program cannot be compared to others in history. Do I fully trust governments? No I don't there have been too many instances of them shafting their people. Simply put, I want my life to return to 100% the normal life I has in February 2020. I hate wearing masks but will continue to do it until there is no requirement to do so. The informed choice that all the evidence for its long term safety and efficacy isnt there. You've used the arguments about its speed of development, the money thrown at it etc as an argument why everyone should get it if they can. Thats a spurious argument if you cant address the concern over long term effects in the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewiseone Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, luckydug said: If we are already vaxxed why are you lecturing us. You're wasting your time. Not lecturing you. There's always the next time when you are directed to roll your sleeve up, might just choose differently, if you still have the capacity to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBugner2 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Boab said: Keeping it in the context of Vax passports for the football, any U18 can rock up to Tynecastle on Sat. Vaccinations are not mandatory for anyone and, as regards kids, matter not a jot at the football. Unless their parents who take them cannot or will not attend. Which prob the majority of younger kids rely on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBugner2 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said: so yes more likely to have COVID. again , happy we agree. you realise a lot of folk will label you an "anti vaxxer" for our agreements ? Edited September 30, 2021 by JoeBugner2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: Glad you think so 👍 40 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said: Yes vaccinated folks are landing in hospital but at a much lower rate than those who are unvaccinated. I believe the facts clearly belie your assertion that the vaccines are not efficacious. With regard to safety there have of course been side effects identified with all of the vaccines deployed, statistics show that these are outweighed in age groups I6+ which is why there was a stooshie around vaccinating 12-15 year old's. I understand the argument that long term effects may well exist that aren't yet know. At the end of the day folks are free to make up their own mind but I'd implore them to do so based on the facts and not internet disinformation. One of the side effects is “ death” it’s quite an extreme one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, JoeBugner2 said: oh I posted the old data actually , here is the latest ... and it is getting worse.... The number of unvaccinated people used in those calculations is unreliable, it uses people registered with a doctor to count the unvaccinated. People registered with two doctors are double counted, and some people who have left the country are still registered with a doctor It's explained at the start of this episode of the statistics programme More Or Less. The Public Health England report contains a caveat that these figures should not be used to assess vaccine effectiveness, I'm surprised you missed it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000zkzq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewiseone Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Oh it's all gone quiet over there! That was a song when I started going to the football way before you had to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said: Is there a court case going on trying to prevent the introduction of the passports? Overheard someone saying it was one of the Unions doing it. There was and it has failed. Hence this morning's meltdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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