****Official Dundee Utd V Hearts matchday thread****

[GinRummy]

Just now, Jambo92 said:

 

With 3 CBs and 2 defensive mids its imperative we get pace and creativity into those wing back roles. In my eyes Ginnelly is perfect for that rwb in this system if fit. Sure he will be found up the pitch at times but you have that solid back 5 to cover.

It’s been mentioned and I’m not against it but I doubt it’ll happen unless through absolute necessity and certainly not at the start of a game. 
 

I don’t think much will change today as far as the line up or formation is concerned (unless because of fresh injury). Maybe Woodburn for one of GMS or Gino? Other than that it’ll be 3-4-3, same side as last week. Tbf, we did dominate the first half last week, against a better side than United. Though we could have been doing with some better play in final third. 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Surprise me, but I don’t see us winning this.  Happily take a point. 

 

A point would be OK, but no reason why we can't win this. 

 

I'm with you-Pretty 50/50 tho. 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Debut 4 said:

Very much agree.  In he heat of the game, concentration can go too. I don’t necessarily mean players lose focus on their individual efforts but their positional awareness maybe slips, where they should be at any given time in relation to the passage of play. 
 

I didn’t think our system worked efficiently enough, in an attacking sense, often enough.  People have spoken about Ginnelly moving to wing back. I was against it at first but it may be worth a look? I just think we need more instant pace and power on the right side and stop playing Halliday on the left ,push Cochrane forward.  
 

Or, we have a system that keeps one of GMS or Ginnelly in and have Woodburn playing off MBoyce.  I’d like to see McEneff get a chance and have one less defensive midfielder.  He’s got the legs to work the length of the park and get back into defend. But more importantly, another attacking threat from the middle to link with the forwards.  

Absolutely. My fear, in an attacking sense today, is that Halliday and Smith at WB will be more focussed on defending, as it’s an away game and Haring and Baningime though good players, just aren’t attacking mids, Boyce will drop deep looking for the ball and rinse and repeat. 
 

You stick McEneff in for Haring and tell him to get up and support the forwards and it’s a whole different ball game. Deliberately missed out Woodburn here because I know nothing about him really, though obviously he could make a big difference from what I’ve read. 
 

 

[superjack]

I would go for a 3 5 2. Only 1 defensive midfielder.  Play beni, mceneff and woodburn as a 10. Gino and Cochrane as wing backs with boyce and nando up front. 

An easy 5 1 victory today. Boyce 2, nando, woodburn and mceneff.

[magicjohnston]

3 minutes ago, superjack said:

I would go for a 3 5 2. Only 1 defensive midfielder.  Play beni, mceneff and woodburn as a 10. Gino and Cochrane as wing backs with boyce and nando up front. 

An easy 5 1 victory today. Boyce 2, nando, woodburn and mceneff.

If only! 😢 would love something like this

[GinRummy]

11 minutes ago, superjack said:

I would go for a 3 5 2. Only 1 defensive midfielder.  Play beni, mceneff and woodburn as a 10. Gino and Cochrane as wing backs with boyce and nando up front. 

An easy 5 1 victory today. Boyce 2, nando, woodburn and mceneff.

Wouldn’t be against something like that. 3-5-2 gets a bad rep on here after the Celtic cup game but if there are enough attacking players in the line up it doesn’t need to be defensive. 

[jambo_74]

12 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Very much agree.  In he heat of the game, concentration can go too. I don’t necessarily mean players lose focus on their individual efforts but their positional awareness maybe slips and where they should be at any given time in relation to the passage of play. 
 

I didn’t think our system worked efficiently enough, in an attacking sense, often enough.  People have spoken about Ginnelly moving to wing back. I was against it at first but it may be worth a look? I just think we need more instant pace and power on the right side and stop playing Halliday on the left ,push Cochrane forward.  
 

Or, we have a system that keeps one of GMS or Ginnelly in and have Woodburn playing off MBoyce.  I’d like to see McEneff get a chance and have one less defensive midfielder.  He’s got the legs to work the length of the park and get back into defend. But more importantly, another attacking threat from the middle to link with the forwards.  

If Ginnelly has space to run onto the ball rather than playing back to goal, it would benefit him. Linking play from back to front isn't his game, he wants to get in behind and put the pedal to the metal. If we played him, as you have suggested in the wingback role, he would have the space to get beyond the right sided forward in a 3-4-3. It really comes down to the player in that position having good passing ability under pressure and in tight confines.

 

Smith, as much as I love him as a defensive player, doesn't have the range of passing/crossing or pace to get beyond his man and swing in a good cross. I'd be happy to see Ginnelly given a run out in that position. the cover is there, two sitting midfielders and three at the back allow this formation to cope with more attacking players in the wide areas.

[Debut 4]

13 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

If Ginnelly has space to run onto the ball rather than playing back to goal, it would benefit him. Linking play from back to front isn't his game, he wants to get in behind and put the pedal to the metal. If we played him, as you have suggested in the wingback role, he would have the space to get beyond the right sided forward in a 3-4-3. It really comes down to the player in that position having good passing ability under pressure and in tight confines.

 

Smith, as much as I love him as a defensive player, doesn't have the range of passing/crossing or pace to get beyond his man and swing in a good cross. I'd be happy to see Ginnelly given a run out in that position. the cover is there, two sitting midfielders and three at the back allow this formation to cope with more attacking players in the wide areas.

👍🏻

[JimmyCant]

17 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

If Ginnelly has space to run onto the ball rather than playing back to goal, it would benefit him. Linking play from back to front isn't his game, he wants to get in behind and put the pedal to the metal. If we played him, as you have suggested in the wingback role, he would have the space to get beyond the right sided forward in a 3-4-3. It really comes down to the player in that position having good passing ability under pressure and in tight confines.

 

Smith, as much as I love him as a defensive player, doesn't have the range of passing/crossing or pace to get beyond his man and swing in a good cross. I'd be happy to see Ginnelly given a run out in that position. the cover is there, two sitting midfielders and three at the back allow this formation to cope with more attacking players in the wide areas.

Good call on Ginelly at RWB. I think he could play that role. Only question mark was he let the guy run off him for Aberdeen’s goal last week. Goal wasn’t entirely his fault but he was in the mix when the blame is being handed out 

[Jambof3tornado]

38 minutes ago, superjack said:

I would go for a 3 5 2. Only 1 defensive midfielder.  Play beni, mceneff and woodburn as a 10. Gino and Cochrane as wing backs with boyce and nando up front. 

An easy 5 1 victory today. Boyce 2, nando, woodburn and mceneff.

No danger of us going away from home with 2 holding/defensive midfielders. We will hopefully weather any early pressure then force our way into the match. Hopefully Robbie will trust his attacking players enough to let them influence the game without fear of losing the ball occasionally, plenty behind to win it back.

 

I'm going for a 3-1 win for us.

[frankblack]

4 hours ago, GinRummy said:

We need to give teams more to think about. Hopefully the new look central midfield and Woodburn will see more threat through the middle. Right now, if teams deal with our wingers we aren’t much of an attacking threat.  

 

That is my thoughts on why we need Gnando + Boyce + Ginelly/GMS.  I think Gnando will at the very least draw defenders off Boyce.

[JimmyCant]

13 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

No danger of us going away from home with 2 holding/defensive midfielders. We will hopefully weather any early pressure then force our way into the match. Hopefully Robbie will trust his attacking players enough to let them influence the game without fear of losing the ball occasionally, plenty behind to win it back.

 

I'm going for a 3-1 win for us.

Neilson’s first priority when he selects a team and formation and tactics for an away game (and some home games)is ‘avoid defeat’ That is never going to change the whole time he is here. We’ve got loads of more attacking options we could employ today to take the game to them, but he won’t consider them. 8 defensively minded positions, 3 attackers. It’s what he does

[jambo_74]

23 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Good call on Ginelly at RWB. I think he could play that role. Only question mark was he let the guy run off him for Aberdeen’s goal last week. Goal wasn’t entirely his fault but he was in the mix when the blame is being handed out 

I'd take that on the chin, he isn't a defensive player by nature, so you would have to hope that in much the same way as Brellier would cover for Fysass when he marauded forward, the CDM or RCB would be there and read the danger. I would say however, if played there, he would need to up his defensive attributes. Perhaps that in itself is the very reason why it won't happen 👍

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That is my thoughts on why we need Gnando + Boyce + Ginelly/GMS.  I think Gnando will at the very least draw defenders off Boyce.

It’s great to finally have some options up front and agree about Gnando. It’s early days but feels like a good squad is being assembled.

[Gordon Ramsay]

Hopefully Gnando is involved at some point we need something different to mix it up a bit. 

[JimmyCant]

13 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

I'd take that on the chin, he isn't a defensive player by nature, so you would have to hope that in much the same way as Brellier would cover for Fysass when he marauded forward, the CDM or RCB would be there and read the danger. I would say however, if played there, he would need to up his defensive attributes. Perhaps that in itself is the very reason why it won't happen 👍

We’ll that and the fact that Neilson is averse to putting a primarily attacking player at wing back. It’s like he just doesn’t understand the benefit of wing backs at all. If you have 3 at the back surely you can coach them to cover a wing back attacking. Especially when you have 2 deep midfielders in the same line up 

Edited August 28, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Walrus]

2 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

do it 👍 a Hearts win , in the sun ☀️ a perfect day

Tickets booked 🇱🇻

[JimmyCant]

13 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Hopefully Gnando is involved at some point we need something different to mix it up a bit. 

Boyce must be awful frustrated having to play that false 9 role all the time. Working so hard for little reward

[151]

11 minutes ago, Walrus said:

Tickets booked 🇱🇻

 

That's the spirit.

 

 

We're just to the left of the goal. 

[king.Robbo]

Would like to see 3-5-2 today

 

big Nando and Boyce wae Ben behind in free role

 

bring GMS and Ginnelly off bench later 

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t know if swapping our forwards about will necessarily work. Wingers are inconsistent but poor wing back play and no attacking intent from the middle is the real issue. We played a home game with 8 predominantly defensive players and the one wing back who can get up and down the pitch all game playing at LCB.  We need more attack minded players on the pitch and the tactics to allow them to get up the park. 

Ginnelly is the most attack minded player we have!

[DS98]

If we had won last week I would’ve took a point today. 3 points is a must now against a 1 man team with out the 1 man. 
 

2-0 Boycie brace. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Thomaso said:

Ginnelly is the most attack minded player we have!

I’m not against including Ginelly in a front three. My point is the connection/service or whatever, from the midfield to the front three is the problem. GMS, Gino, Boyce, Gnando all capable forwards.

[jambo_74]

20 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

We’ll that and the fact that Neilson is averse to putting a primarily attacking player at wing back. It’s like he just doesn’t understand the benefit of wing backs at all. If you have 3 at the back surely you can coach them to cover a wing back attacking. Especially when you have 2 deep midfielders in the same line up 

Neilson is definitely a pragmatist, he will always lean more towards building a solid defensive unit than a gungho attacking team. But, once the defensive part of the team is in place and is working as a cohesive unit, the more forward thinking players will naturally feel more confident to move higher up the pitch. It provides a solid foundation, something to build on and in turn gives players the confidence to step out of their comfort zone and move the game forward. I think if they live up to expectations, the new players will provide the catalyst to go from strength to strength. I am looking forward to seeing Woodburn, it will be interesting to see which position he occupies. False number nine? 

[Rocky jamboa]

I don't think we've got the players to suit 3 at the back - it just ends up being 7 defenders! so would go 4231.  Could bring Haring off for Gnando and go 442 later on, depending on how things are going.

 

                   Gordon 

Smith   Souttar   Halkett   cochrane

           Beni        Haring

Gino         Woodburn       GMS

                    Boyce

[lost in space]

19 minutes ago, DS98 said:

If we had won last week I would’ve took a point today. 3 points is a must now against a 1 man team with out the 1 man. 
 

2-0 Boycie brace. 

This is also my view - re points.

We have better players in just about every position. They are at home though which gives them one advantage.

If the players are motivated to push forward from the start and don't park the bus if we get ahead, we have a very good chance of winning.

[JimmyCant]

12 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

Neilson is definitely a pragmatist, he will always lean more towards building a solid defensive unit than a gungho attacking team. But, once the defensive part of the team is in place and is working as a cohesive unit, the more forward thinking players will naturally feel more confident to move higher up the pitch. It provides a solid foundation, something to build on and in turn gives players the confidence to step out of their comfort zone and move the game forward. I think if they live up to expectations, the new players will provide the catalyst to go from strength to strength. I am looking forward to seeing Woodburn, it will be interesting to see which position he occupies. False number nine? 

Sure I read Neilson say he would start off in a wide attacking role. To me that says replacing either Ginelly or GMS, more likely GMS and keeping the same broken system.( unless he can find a RWB or mould someone into a RWB)

[A_A wehatethehibs]

16 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

I don't think we've got the players to suit 3 at the back - it just ends up being 7 defenders! so would go 4231.  Could bring Haring off for Gnando and go 442 later on, depending on how things are going.

 

                   Gordon 

Smith   Souttar   Halkett   cochrane

           Beni        Haring

Gino         Woodburn       GMS

                    Boyce

take it you don’t watch much of Halkett. His deficiencies as a defender are the reason we are playing 3 at the back. He can’t play in a 4. But in the middle of the 3 he can hold his own because there’s not much thinking to do. 
 

But now that we’ve got Moore in, a switch to a back 4 is possible - if he’s good. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by A_A wehatethehibs

[jambo_74]

Just now, JimmyCant said:

Sure I read Neilson say he would start off in a wide attacking role. To me that says replacing either Ginelly or GMS, more likely GMS and keeping the same broken system.( unless he can find a RWB or mould someone into a RWB)

Does Woodburn have the pace to play in the wide areas? I've watched the highlights real, and it is fair to say his touch and movement is immaculate. He also has a decent dig as well, just curious if anyone has been lucky enough to have seen him in the flesh and comment on how fast he is. I think we need our front players to stay further forward, open up the channels to run into. Stop dropping so deep to get involved in the play, bide their time and have confidence that a ball in behind will allow them to turn and spin away. The last few games we have been to eager to drop deep. Hopefully that improves and we see the whole teams starting position ten yards further forward.

[Gordon Ramsay]

19 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

I don't think we've got the players to suit 3 at the back - it just ends up being 7 defenders! so would go 4231.  Could bring Haring off for Gnando and go 442 later on, depending on how things are going.

 

                   Gordon 

Smith   Souttar   Halkett   cochrane

           Beni        Haring

Gino         Woodburn       GMS

                    Boyce

 

Like the look of that. 

[JimmyCant]

13 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

I don't think we've got the players to suit 3 at the back - it just ends up being 7 defenders! so would go 4231.  Could bring Haring off for Gnando and go 442 later on, depending on how things are going.

 

                   Gordon 

Smith   Souttar   Halkett   cochrane

           Beni        Haring

Gino         Woodburn       GMS

                    Boyce

Gordon 

 

smith

souttar

moore

cochrane

 

Gino

beni

woodburn

GMS

 

Boyce

Gnando

[gordiegords]

Any idea for a stream today?

[Phage]

15 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Gordon 

 

smith

souttar

moore

cochrane

 

Gino

beni

woodburn

GMS

 

Boyce

Gnando

This please

[JudyJudyJudy]

53 minutes ago, DS98 said:

If we had won last week I would’ve took a point today. 3 points is a must now against a 1 man team with out the 1 man. 
 

2-0 Boycie brace. 

Yes . Must win game really . Good chance to get the 3 points away 

[XB52]

3 hours ago, Tambo_The_Jambo said:

Yep 100% and we are favourites according to bet365

Not that it matters but UTD are favourites at these odds. 45/20 against 48/20 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

Not that it matters but UTD are favourites at these odds. 45/20 against 48/20 

Where you getting Hearts at that price ?

[Jamiemac]

https://t.co/bytlD9hh6I

 

Interview with our new number 9, Ben Woodburn. Talks about what attracted him to Hearts, playing alongside Liverpool’s finest stars and his early impressions of Robbie Neilson and his “good style of play” (his words not mine 😂😂)

[weegie jambo]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Neilson’s first priority when he selects a team and formation and tactics for an away game (and some home games)is ‘avoid defeat’ That is never going to change the whole time he is here. We’ve got loads of more attacking options we could employ today to take the game to them, but he won’t consider them. 8 defensively minded positions, 3 attackers. It’s what he does

sadly this what I fear. We have the personel to be positive and attack, but will play them? will he heck as like!

[Rocky jamboa]

35 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

take it you don’t watch much of Halkett. His deficiencies as a defender are the reason we are playing 3 at the back. He can’t play in a 4. But in the middle of the 3 he can hold his own because there’s not much thinking to do. 
 

But now that we’ve got Moore in, a switch to a back 4 is possible - if he’s good. 

I take it you've not been watching much of Smith and Cochrane as wing backs in the 5 of a 352??? 

[160598]

15 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Where you getting Hearts at that price ?

Utd 11/5 hearts 6/5

[1971fozzy]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

Ginnelly is the most attack minded player we have!

100%.  Definite starter for me

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Paulp74 said:

I don't think we've got the players to suit 3 at the back - it just ends up being 7 defenders! so would go 4231.  Could bring Haring off for Gnando and go 442 later on, depending on how things are going.

 

                   Gordon 

Smith   Souttar   Halkett   cochrane

           Beni        Haring

Gino         Woodburn       GMS

                    Boyce

This but I’d maybe start Mceneff instead of Haring. 

[Debut 4]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

This but I’d maybe start Mceneff instead of Haring. 

I hope so.  Haring looks a lot slower these days. Neilson needs to see we need creativity in the middle and at least have one player who’s got the natural ability and thought to play forward. 

[Russ1977]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

This but I’d maybe start Mceneff instead of Haring. 

Also our only player with genuine pace. He didn’t have the best game against aberdeen but on the couple of occasions he ran at them he looked dangerous. If one of him or GMS was to be dropped It would be GMS sitting on the bench for me. 

[south morocco]

2 minutes ago, Russ1977 said:

Also our only player with genuine pace. He didn’t have the best game against aberdeen but on the couple of occasions he ran at them he looked dangerous. If one of him or GMS was to be dropped It would be GMS sitting on the bench for me. 

Isn’t Gino quick?

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

31 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Not that it matters but UTD are favourites at these odds. 45/20 against 48/20 

We are 23/20? They are 9/4…..I’ve gambled for 40 years…..we are favs mate

[Jambos_1874]

Is this on TV at all for those who can't make the game today?

[Russ1977]

2 minutes ago, south morocco said:

Isn’t Gino quick?

It’s Gino I’m talking about having pace. 

[milky_26]

1 minute ago, Jambos_1874 said:

Is this on TV at all for those who can't make the game today?

dundee united ppv

[Russ1977]

Just now, Russ1977 said:

It’s Gino I’m talking about having pace. 

Just noticed I’ve quoted the wrong post in my original reply🙈 was meant to quote the one above.