Top European Soccer Teams Agree to Join Breakaway League

[sandyk]

6 minutes ago, Boab said:

The most depressing stat that came out a while back was that most EPL teams would still show a profit if no fans were at any games. Before the pandemic incidentally.

If ever there was a indictment of the modern game, that was it !

Very true.  Bournemouth had an average attendance of just 10.5K from their 14 games in 19/20.  If TV revenue is reduced as a result of the 'big 6' leaving, then they will be in all sorts of bother.

 

If the powers to be in the English FA are not careful, this whole shitshow will come crashing down

Edited April 19, 2021 by sandyk

[Armageddon]

Also what I find totally annoying, the funding is coming from JP Morgan - utter pish, I wonder who is REALLY behind the funding, JP Morgan is just a front.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Armageddon

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 real things for me is how the FA will react, will they bling first and submit to this in order to keep them in the EPL for TV money or will they punt the 6 from the league, a league in which they own 50% of?

 

The other thing is, just how mental with the phone calls be from the OF just now to get an invite?

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

Very true.  Bournemouth had an average attendance of just 10.5K from their 14 games in 19/20.  If TV revenue is reduced as a result of the 'big 6' leaving, then they will be in all sorts of bother.

 

If the powers to be in the English FA are not careful, this whole shitshow will come crashing down

The only “bother” they will have is not having £40m to spend on the likes of Jordan Ibe and Dominik Solanke. 
 

They will find their level and adjust appropriately through smaller wages, as will every other club. 
 

Personally I am starting to see this Super League as being good for everyone not actually involved!

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I think Leipzig, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim and Leverkusen are different but I don't think the have the interest worldwide. 

 

However, imo I think the 15 are going to struggle to get another 5 teams in their league and will have to invite clubs from perhaps Asia, the Americas and maybe clubs like Leipzig to make up the numbers. 

They must have to go down the route of expanding into other countries and if that means going through the list of ‘thanks but no thanks clubs’ in countries like Germany and France to get to the likes of Leipzig they may well do so.

 

If they don’t it’s not so much of a European Super League as a triumvirate of elite* clubs from Spain, Italy and England.

 

 

*plus Spurs

[Spellczech]

I see this as just a way for these clubs to get a bigger slice of the existing pie. Spanish clubs have busted themselves trying to stay ahead of the Sky-funded English, Italians also have no money except dodgy Chinese investment. English big 6 want to control the English game rather than fund the rest (as they see it).

 

The English clubs would ironically be happy to have the Scottish model for grabbing the majority of the dosh, but are hamstrung by a similar setup for resistance to change - makes you wonder how the OF managed to get the votes to rig the system here...

[TheOak88]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

The only “bother” they will have is not having £40m to spend on the likes of Jordan Ibe and Dominik Solanke. 
 

They will find their level and adjust appropriately through smaller wages, as will every other club. 
 

Personally I am starting to see this Super League as being good for everyone not actually involved!

 

Yep. The financial bubble of the English lower leagues was always going to burst eventually. And TBH, I welcome it. If it means we are no longer getting outgunned by teams like Brentford and Preston, it sounds all good. 

[Pasquale for King]

21 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Fans own the clubs. 

Not all it would seem,4 that aren’t according to the posts up there 👆. RB Leipzig might well join up. 

[Footballfirst]

I listened to Talksport this morning and Simon Jordan gets it.  He said that the same thing happened in 1992 when the EPL was formed and had the same widespread discontent among fans.

 

In 1992 the big clubs wanted control and a bigger share of the pot, exactly same as what the big clubs want in 2021.  Lots of opposition to the EPL in 1992 ended up with the breakaway league conceding promotion/relegation between itself and the EFL, but with the EPL taking the lion's share of the cash on offer.

 

Jordan believes that the ESL won't happen, for now, but having made so much noise about it, some compromise with UFEA will follow, with those same clubs benefitting from a revamped CL or other competition.

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

From The Athletic:

 

"The 12 clubs have hired InHouse Communications as a British public affairs agency to promote the launch.

 

Katie Perrior, the chair of InHouse, was formerly head of communications for Theresa May during her period as prime minister"

 

   

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I listened to Talksport this morning and Simon Jordan gets it.  He said that the same thing happened in 1992 when the EPL was formed and had the same widespread discontent among fans.

 

In 1992 the big clubs wanted control and a bigger share of the pot, exactly same as what the big clubs want in 2021.  Lots of opposition to the EPL in 1992 ended up with the breakaway league conceding promotion/relegation between itself and the EFL, but with the EPL taking the lion's share of the cash on offer.

 

Jordan believes that the ESL won't happen, for now, but having made so much noise about it, some compromise with UFEA will follow, with those same clubs benefitting from a revamped CL or other competition.

 

 

I don’t remember that the EPL wanted it to be a closed shop with no relegation. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

From The Athletic:

 

"The 12 clubs have hired InHouse Communications as a British public affairs agency to promote the launch.

 

Katie Perrior, the chair of InHouse, was formerly head of communications for Theresa May during her period as prime minister"

 

   

Hahahahaha ffs 

[The Old Tolbooth]

I genuinely don't think this will get off the ground tbh, no German or French clubs involved, Spanish clubs need permission from their members as that's how their system works, English fans seem dead against it (and Boris has vowed to block it )

 

If it did go ahead however, it would leave the English leagues in a mess in my opinion, because they've now gotten used to the massive wage bills that they're paying players, and if this ESL went ahead, then surely no one in their right mind would pay the same sort of money without the 6 breakaway teams involved in it, it could financially cripple the rest of English football, and I could even see them agreeing to let in the Old Firm as some sort of shake up, because the 6 breakaway clubs will not be allowed to play in England or English competitions any more, it could have a domino effect on everyone if it somehow gets off the ground. 

 

Personally, I don't agree with it one bit, it's just a money making greed machine which distances itself from the true and proper fans of the game, just a shit idea really! 

[Rogue Daddy]

37 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

I wonder how many leagues are praying their greedy 'top teams' just fuvk off out their league structure, it cant just be Scotland.

 

An unregulated league, managed by the greedy 12, what could possibly go wrong?

Absolutely.... hey, if the uglies are not invited, maybe they'll set up their own World Super League where it's just the 2 of them playing home and away every week? No relegation!... prize money only pays out on 1st & 2nd.

 

Strangely enough, this is kind of akin to what we're seeing now. However, Scottish club's revenue mostly comes from paying at the gate and season ticket holders....same can definitely not be said for down south. If the OF were to piss off 🙏, it would be the making of Scottish Football.

[sadj]

2 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

It will be very interesting if this ESL did start up and FIFA subsequently and successfully banned players from representing their national teams. 

 

Then we'd get to see which players valued bank balances over national pride.

Bank balances would win out its a short career with a limited (timewise) earning period. 

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I don’t remember that the EPL wanted it to be a closed shop with no relegation. 

 

I was thinking that too. Jordan's great but he's got that bit wrong.

[Pasquale for King]

So the boards of the English 6 are split but the owners are still pushing ahead. They were prepared for criticism. They want less games, not happy about internationals and chuffed if their guys are banned. Weakened teams for league games as they think they will be allowed to stay, but going anyway if they’re kicked out. 
The Glazers don’t understand relegation. Man City didn’t want to be left behind.,

Kaveh on Sky just said all that. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Hashimoto said:

Family owned...

 

Well the gobshite Spanos family own what used to be the San Diego Chargers and I'm pretty sure that team is a franchise. 

[shaun.lawson]

Not their official website, unfortunately

 

[Tazio]

I’m totally against this idea but just to play devil’s advocate for a moment. 
Wasn’t there a massive thread on here about how Hearts should get out of the Scottish leagues and join the English set up? Wouldn’t that be destroying decades of tradition and self serving? Of course not everyone agreed but a significant number did. 

[jambopilms]

It will end up with the big clubs getting an invitation to the Champions League no matter where the end up in their respective leagues.

[sandyk]

19 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

The only “bother” they will have is not having £40m to spend on the likes of Jordan Ibe and Dominik Solanke. 
 

They will find their level and adjust appropriately through smaller wages, as will every other club. 
 

Personally I am starting to see this Super League as being good for everyone not actually involved!

Again, very true, especially the last line!

 

Problem some may have is how quickly this will happen.  If quickly, then the megabucks contracts thrown about may cause issues if the cash is cut.  Money owed to investors, money borrowed against projected income, etc may also have a few clubs sweating.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

6 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

 

Personally, I don't agree with it one bit, it's just a money making greed machine which distances itself from the true and proper fans of the game, just a shit idea really! 

 

Which is exactly what the creation of the EPL and CL did but without the media faux outrage. These clubs have been unhappy at the governance by UEFA and FIFA for years (mostly UEFA tbf) and have been seeking significant change from the governing body. It hasn't happened so here we have the ESL. By creating this into an actual entity (as opposed to just threatening to do so) they now massively increase the pressure on UEFA to start making the changes they want. This could just be the start of a protracted negotiation. 

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I’m totally against this idea but just to play devil’s advocate for a moment. 
Wasn’t there a massive thread on here about how Hearts should get out of the Scottish leagues and join the English set up? Wouldn’t that be destroying decades of tradition and self serving? Of course not everyone agreed but a significant number did. 

The trouble is, the big 6 want to have their cake and eat it.  They want to join the ESL for weekday fun and cash, but still take part in their national league, with mega, mega bucks more that the rest of the teams. 

[sadj]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

This started 30 years ago. The current format of the champions league, the money that it created, and the consolidation of wealth to the big 3/4 leagues already effectively killed off some of Europe’s  leagues. Scotland, Holland, Portugal..

 

I didn’t hear any crying before . It was only a matter of time before the greed was narrowed to a smaller cohort

 

all of this said. I do think that European football needs a shake up.  I would love to see European leagues with a regional system underpinning it. As long as the pyramid is maintained and there is opportunity to progress.
 

 

Don’t disagree with this

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

The trouble is, the big 6 want to have their cake and eat it.  They want to join the ESL for weekday fun and cash, but still take part in their national league, with mega, mega bucks more that the rest of the teams. 

I realise it’s very different and nothing to do with sport and everything to do with money. 

[Jeff]

10 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

Not their official website, unfortunately

 

 

Pro Evolution Soccer seen the future!

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Well the gobshite Spanos family own what used to be the San Diego Chargers and I'm pretty sure that team is a franchise. 

It’s a good point and gives an insight into how these types think. 

[shaun.lawson]

3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

The trouble is, the big 6 want to have their cake and eat it.  They want to join the ESL for weekday fun and cash, but still take part in their national league, with mega, mega bucks more that the rest of the teams. 

 

And in the process, wreck their national leagues.

 

"And it's a warm welcome to this evening's vital clash between Arsenal and Leeds. 10th-placed Arsenal are guaranteed a place in Europe next season. For 2nd-placed Leeds, only the title will suffice". 

 

The broadcasters will sue if this goes ahead. And that 25-year-long bubble will finally burst, irrevocably.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

It’s a good point and gives an insight into how these types think. 

 

They moved the team because the San Diego Tax Payers refused to build them a swanky new stadium. 

[davemclaren]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

And in the process, wreck their national leagues.

 

"And it's a warm welcome to this evening's vital clash between Arsenal and Leeds. 10th-placed Arsenal are guaranteed a place in Europe next season. For 2nd-placed Leeds, only the title will suffice". 

 

The broadcasters will sue if this goes ahead. And that 25-year-long bubble will finally burst, irrevocably.

Interesting that there is no clear definition on how the 5 lucky ‘guest’ teams will be selected every season. 

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

They moved the team because the San Diego Tax Payers refused to build them a swanky new stadium. 

 

In the process, displaying as much self-awareness of how important their team was as, well, Tottenham. Because nobody in LA could give a **** about the Bolts either!

 

The Spanos family are disgusting vultures. I think this is about the first thing you've ever said on here I've completely agreed with!

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Interesting that there is no clear definition on how the 5 lucky ‘guest’ teams will be selected every season. 

Whatever it is I’m sure there will need to be a check on their financial suitability. 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Interesting that there is no clear definition on how the 5 lucky ‘guest’ teams will be selected every season. 

 

Auction. Highest 5 bidders win the right.

[Heartsofgold]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Bayer Leverkusen and Wolfsburg are both privately owned, by Bayer and Volkswagen respectively

Did they not start as 'works' teams though rather than community clubs like the rest?

[shaun.lawson]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Interesting that there is no clear definition on how the 5 lucky ‘guest’ teams will be selected every season. 

 

Twice European Champions Nottingham Forest on the edge of their seats in anticipation...

[hmfc_liam06]

3 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

^This 

His rant was funny tbh, the Irony of what he was trying to say wasn't lost, he was all for more and more billions of pounds to be ploughed into the EPL though and for that to create an even bigger chasm between them and the rest of the world, but not in a European league eh gary? whats the fecking difference? Because it's not English clubs getting all the money? The epl has already lost touch with the common football fan and was skating over very dangerous waters for a while with the embarrasing amount of riches floating around in their game. They never complained at that time did they?

Christ if the scottish league had even 5% of the epl money in terms of sponsorship we would be absolute fecking quids in! have these guys seriously not seen this coming ? It was always going to happen eventually, thats what happens when you sell the soul of the game for money, you reap what you sow, I've no sympathy, could not give a toss either.

 

👏

Wonder how Neville's morals will sit when the broadcaster of this new league offer to double his Sky wages? Off like a shot

Edited April 19, 2021 by hmfc_liam06

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Did they not start as 'works' teams though rather than community clubs like the rest?

I couldn't say TBH, just saying it's not just RB Leipzig who aren't majority fan owned.

 

I know Hoffenheim are privately owned and didn't start as a works team though.

[Footballfirst]

23 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I don’t remember that the EPL wanted it to be a closed shop with no relegation. 

I have it in my mind that it was part of the initial thinking behind the breakaway, but, to be fair, I can't find a reference for that.

 

However, looking at sources from that time, the split was driven by five clubs, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton.  They also wanted an 18 team league.  The five also had support from nine other clubs, in the then First Division, who all resigned from the EFL.  The EPL initially had the backing of the FA, who thought that the EFL was getting too powerful (little did they know).  Following discussions between the leagues and the FA the EPL eventually started with  league of 20 comprising the top 19 clubs from the last season of the First Division and the champion of Division Two. 

[Heartsofgold]

27 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Well the gobshite Spanos family own what used to be the San Diego Chargers and I'm pretty sure that team is a franchise. 

Every single team in the NFL is a city based franchise from the National Football League.  Family owned means nothing.  If the city does not pony up the readies for a new stadium and facilities, then the franchise moves a la San Diego and the Raiders in recent years.

[SectionDJambo]

23 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Absolutely.... hey, if the uglies are not invited, maybe they'll set up their own World Super League where it's just the 2 of them playing home and away every week? No relegation!... prize money only pays out on 1st & 2nd.

 

Strangely enough, this is kind of akin to what we're seeing now. However, Scottish club's revenue mostly comes from paying at the gate and season ticket holders....same can definitely not be said for down south. If the OF were to piss off 🙏, it would be the making of Scottish Football.

Just saw Andy Walker say what we all know. If Rangers and Celtic got an invite to join this, or similar, they’d be off like a shot. He suggests that Rangers will be very concerned about how much money they can make from the Champions League if enough of the big teams go and prize money is thereby affected. He rightly pointed out they are in some financial peril again and need big income from European competition.

It would be interesting to see how the SFA would react if UEFA told them to exclude them both from domestic football in Scotland if they joined up with a similar idea to this Super League. 
One thing is for sure. If Rangers and Celtic get access to the kind of funds being quoted for this Super League, the rest of the Scottish clubs would have to separate themselves from them or face even more domination. Sadly, there are clubs in Scotland who would take their money and doff their caps to them.

[Hagar the Horrible]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s a good point and gives an insight into how these types think. 

The guy who owns the jacksonville jaguars wanted to move to London either Wembley in which he tried to buy or to WHL

 

But the raiders have moved from oakland to LA and back again before nomading in Vagas

Chargers moved in the void of LA, where they were before?

Rams from LA to St Louis and back again

I think the Cleveland Browns are now the Baltimore Ravens but did an Sevco and Airdrie and resurected

In a Bizaar move the Eagles and the Steelers swaped cities in 1940 the Entity (Sevco) but not the franchise WTF!

Oilers moved from Houston to Tennesee Inbreds sorry Titans

St louis Cardinals to Arizona (cardinals now being a bird rather than a senior kafflic thing)

 

Fans and cities have zero importance,  history has no memory, its all about the $$$$$

 

Even the Dallas Cowboys moved from Irvine (Dallas) to Arlington about the same as Meadowbank to Livingston

 

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

I have it in my mind that it was part of the initial thinking behind the breakaway, but, to be fair, I can't find a reference for that.

 

However, looking at sources from that time, the split was driven by five clubs, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton.  They also wanted an 18 team league.  The five also had support from nine other clubs, in the then First Division, who all resigned from the EFL.  The EPL initially had the backing of the FA, who thought that the EFL was getting too powerful (little did they know).  Following discussions between the leagues and the FA the EPL eventually started with  league of 20 comprising the top 19 clubs from the last season of the First Division and the champion of Division Two. 

 

It started with 22, and was reduced to 20 in 1995, three seasons into the Premier League. So at the start, there was no change: three down, three up ahead of the first season.

 

That FA v FL war had a lot to do with it though, yes. And the FL were indeed becoming too powerful. It was they who, days after they'd won the playoff final at Wembley in 1990, ludicrously demoted Swindon from the top flight to the third flight... before the FA stepped in with the correct compromise of keeping Swindon in the second tier instead. And all this after Swindon's own Chairman had offered to withdraw from the playoffs - to which the FL said no!

 

Both organisations were unbelievably backward at the time - but the FL much more so than the FA.

[Heartsofgold]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I couldn't say TBH, just saying it's not just RB Leipzig who aren't majority fan owned.

 

I know Hoffenheim are privately owned and didn't start as a works team though.

Fair enough.  Funny how there is not the same animus against them as there is to RB Leipzig.  Maybe its because they are owned by an individual (Dietmar Hopp) rather than a massive corporation like Red Bull.

[MCW1976]

I’m not saying I agree with the Super League. I understand where it comes from, but it’s just more crass, unfettered capitalism. It’s nauseating.

 

But ... how many Hearts fans have agreed over the years that nothing changes for us. We go through the motions every single season. 4 ties against the same bored teams and bored fans, ad nauseam.

 

I say, let’s see what happens here. This is such a major explosion, that there is gonna be a lot of debris. 
 

Barriers have been breached (and how). A lot of change can come from this. It may be that the SL never gets underway, but there has been a paradigm shift - a massive one ... and that gets a thumbs-up from this Hearts fan who, if things don’t change, can predict the next 30 years of how every season will pan out for us, ie., just look at the last 30 years (some would say 100) for a spoiler.

 

 

[Cruyff]

55 minutes ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

They must have to go down the route of expanding into other countries and if that means going through the list of ‘thanks but no thanks clubs’ in countries like Germany and France to get to the likes of Leipzig they may well do so.

 

If they don’t it’s not so much of a European Super League as a triumvirate of elite* clubs from Spain, Italy and England.

 

 

*plus Spurs

Yep, that's how I see it. 

46 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not all it would seem,4 that aren’t according to the posts up there 👆. RB Leipzig might well join up. 

Everyone hates them anyway. Most German football fans would be delighted. 👍

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, MCW1976 said:

I’m not saying I agree with the Super League. I understand where it comes from, but it’s just more crass, unfettered capitalism. It’s nauseating.

 

But ... how many Hearts fans have agreed over the years that nothing changes for us. We go through the motions every single season. 4 ties against the same bored teams and bored fans, ad nauseam.

 

I say, let’s see what happens here. This is such a major explosion, that there is gonna be a lot of debris. 
 

Barriers have been breached (and how). A lot of change can come from this. It may be that the SL never gets underway, but there has been a paradigm shift - a massive one ... and that gets a thumbs-up from this Hearts fan who, if things don’t change, can predict the next 30 years of how every season will pan out for us, ie., just look at the last 30 years (some would say 100) for a spoiler.

 

 

 

This is all true. And is why this whole thing is a fait accompli. If it doesn't happen now, it's bound to happen soon - but what's needed is a European pyramid which feeds into a Super League, not this nonsense closed shop.

[Rogue Daddy]

7 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Just saw Andy Walker say what we all know. If Rangers and Celtic got an invite to join this, or similar, they’d be off like a shot. He suggests that Rangers will be very concerned about how much money they can make from the Champions League if enough of the big teams go and prize money is thereby affected. He rightly pointed out they are in some financial peril again and need big income from European competition.

It would be interesting to see how the SFA would react if UEFA told them to exclude them both from domestic football in Scotland if they joined up with a similar idea to this Super League. 
One thing is for sure. If Rangers and Celtic get access to the kind of funds being quoted for this Super League, the rest of the Scottish clubs would have to separate themselves from them or face even more domination. Sadly, there are clubs in Scotland who would take their money and doff their caps to them.

If anyone offered that pair the chance of more money they'd be off.... and good riddance to them.

 

My problem is that (for arguments sake) if they were offered a seat at the ESL table, our governing body would do the exact opposite to the English FA. They would fall over themselves to allow the OF to piss off while allowing them as many colt teams as they wanted in Scotland, so that there was always a clear path back to the SPFL (Premiership), when they're relegated out in their first season!

[Norm]

11 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Fair enough.  Funny how there is not the same animus against them as there is to RB Leipzig.  Maybe its because they are owned by an individual (Dietmar Hopp) rather than a massive corporation like Red Bull.

As I understand it, Hoffenheim used to be 51-49 too. However the German system allows owners who have shown sustained financial commitment to their clubs to go above that number. Hopp has spent millions on the area and community. He's not just some rich owner looking for a fast buck on a football side. 

 

Bayer and Wolfsburg were originally created as work teams, a-la Ferranti Thistle. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Norm

[David Black]

What surprised me when I first read this was that both Celtic and Rangers were not included, then it dawned on me, it says TOP teams.