Official Neilson Out Thread ( merged )

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

 

So, you think we can get our defence fixed with two quality centre-halves, acquire at least one decent winger, and strengthen the midfield to have a side that is more consistent from the start of next season than the likes of Motherwell, Livi, St Johnstone?

 

We clearly need cover in other positions for injuries to add to that with no backups for Kingsley or Smith at full-back, and perhaps one other striker to challenge the front two.

 

Some people have their heads up their asses when it comes to assessing the expectations of the team.

We will have the 3rd biggest wage bill in the country.
 

maybe if we had spunked money on yet more expensive shit we’d finish exactly where we should be finishing. And that isn’t ducking 6th. 

 

13 players signed under neilson alone, and average of 15 players signed every season under budge.

 

it’s gross 

[Bazzas right boot]

24 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You mean it's all about the things AB & her board haven't been doing for the last seven years.

Planning ahead : like the club did when Neilson/Cathro/Levein all left and they hadn't got a clue what they were doing about manager recruitment or succession planning.

Never mind, it's all good, it's only taken 7 years. 

 

 

In that seven years we've been promoted 

Ended up 3rd, 5th, 6th and 6th

That has been at least average for us in my life time. 

We also made 2 sc finals. 

 

The outlier is demotion. 

That was completed by a vote with 8 games left. 

 

We are now promoted again. 

 

We are also debt free and have built a stand with a host of other functions completed as well. 

 

When you take away all the emotion and opinions the outlier is the demotion, everything else is what Hearts have been in my life time - ups and downs. 

 

Demotion, although we were bottom I won't forget we were voted down as others benefited by a corrupt leadership. 

 

All in the past, tho and 100% not Robbies fault. 

 

We are now promoted again. 

 

We have a new structure in place, a sound financial footing and unlike some I'm ready for Hearts to get back to the top and start handing out medicine, under Robbie or another. 

 

Starving the club of funds won't help. 

 

[frankblack]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

We will have the 3rd biggest wage bill in the country.
 

maybe if we had spunked money on yet more expensive shit we’d finish exactly where we should be finishing. And that isn’t ducking 6th. 

 

13 players signed under neilson alone, and average of 15 players signed every season under budge.

 

it’s gross 

 

Recruitment has clearly been an issue as is the contract terms which aren't performance based.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I think with the right manager we have a great chance of that yes. Motherwell have had an awful season. Livingston are a tiny club who are more hamstrung than us because if anybody comes in for any of their players they are gone. Which leaves, in my opinion obv, it being unrealistic to expect to finish above St Johnstone? Really? 

 

You are comparing the size of club instead looking at the quality of the squads.  Ours is extremely poor in a number of areas.

[Lfhearts]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

The bigger picture is not a few poor results. The bigger picture 100% this season was promotion. That had 

 

The bigger picture is various things, most of it the fans won't have a clue about. 

 

It's about, amongst other things - planning ahead, having a structure and not being reactive. 

 

It's about allowing the new football side that includes a director, Savage and a new mgt side time to have normal top flight transfer window and build on the success of promotion. 

 

It's about the financial stability of the club, now and going forward. 

 

It's not about personalities or being emotional. 

 

It's not about "awbody oot". That is not any picture, never mind the bigger one. 

 

For the fans it's about supporting the team to allow it to grow and improve, not withholding funds because they are in a huff, therefor hindering us. 

 

Finally, it's about the future, not CL, not Stendel but the manager and team going forward. 

 

That is just a short summary of the the bigger picture. 

 

 

 

 

God help us.

[Rods]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

In that seven years we've been promoted 

Ended up 3rd, 5th, 6th and 6th

That has been at least average for us in my life time. 

We also made 2 sc finals. 

 

The outlier is demotion. 

That was completed by a vote with 8 games left. 

 

We are now promoted again. 

 

We are also debt free and have built a stand with a host of other functions completed as well. 

 

When you take away all the emotion and opinions the outlier is the demotion, everything else is what Hearts have been in my life time - ups and downs. 

 

Demotion, although we were bottom I won't forget we were voted down as others benefited by a corrupt leadership. 

 

All in the past, tho and 100% not Robbies fault. 

 

We are now promoted again. 

 

We have a new structure in place, a sound financial footing and unlike some I'm ready for Hearts to get back to the top and start handing out medicine, under Robbie or another. 

 

Starving the club of funds won't help. 

 

I am going to go against the grain here and agree on this post.

 

The club actually could be going in the right direction again. 
 

Top 4 is a must though not top 6. I hope whoever is setting the bar sets a high one. 
 

I am also nervous with giving time to a manager after backing Levein a lot. 

[Bazzas right boot]

47 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

That's the dream. The same one being kicked about by the board for the last 7 years. 

I'm not going to even go into the off the field stuff. I'll stick to the football. 

In reality we've seen the continual decline of the football operation through a succession of appalling decisions and appalling appointments. 

Recruitment has been shocking.

The academy has delivered diddly. 

'One more window' has been the continual war cry, as if next time it will be better. 

The money wasted is offensive. 

'Awbody oot'? Aye it makes as much sense as allowing the guy that signed Popescu another shot at the treasure chest. 

If it is to be about moving forward then we need to be brutal and take out the trash. Starting at the top. 

 

 

 

There Popescu remark does it for me Tbh. 

He was a ch with top flight experience with St Mirren. 

 

We were in the championship in a reduced season - what type of quality did you expect? 

 

We also lost out on Findlay recently. 

 

Reality check required imo. 

 

 

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

You are comparing the size of club instead looking at the quality of the squads.  Ours is extremely poor in a number of areas.

I agree with the second sentence. We also will, almost definitely, have more money to invest in out squad than any of the clubs you mentioned. I don’t accept that 4th or 5th is an unrealistic target given the gulf in recruitment resources between ourselves and our rivals. Our main issue is our head coach and his complete failure to get anywhere near the best out of the players he has. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by GinRummy

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Rods said:

I am going to go against the grain here and agree on this post.

 

The club actually could be going in the right direction again. 
 

Top 4 is a must though not top 6. I hope whoever is setting the bar sets a high one. 
 

I am also nervous with giving time to a manager after backing Levein a lot. 

 

Agree. 

 

Top 4 should be the target. 

Top 6 is bare minimum. 

 

I think whoever is manager we'll achieve something like that. 

I have no fear of hibs either who are third, easily catchable imo. 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

In that seven years we've been promoted 

Ended up 3rd, 5th, 6th and 6th

That has been at least average for us in my life time. 

We also made 2 sc finals. 

 

The outlier is demotion. 

That was completed by a vote with 8 games left. 

 

We are now promoted again. 

 

We are also debt free and have built a stand with a host of other functions completed as well. 

 

When you take away all the emotion and opinions the outlier is the demotion, everything else is what Hearts have been in my life time - ups and downs. 

 

Demotion, although we were bottom I won't forget we were voted down as others benefited by a corrupt leadership. 

 

All in the past, tho and 100% not Robbies fault. 

 

We are now promoted again. 

 

We have a new structure in place, a sound financial footing and unlike some I'm ready for Hearts to get back to the top and start handing out medicine, under Robbie or another. 

 

Starving the club of funds won't help. 

 

Tosh, we are not debt free. Budge has funded a deficit. Indeed, one purported reason for the FoH takeover not being completed is this debt but no one truly knows as apparently it is because we all want a party.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Tosh, we are not debt free. Budge has funded a deficit. Indeed, one purported reason for the FoH takeover not being completed is this debt but no one truly knows as apparently it is because we all want a party.

 

 

Replace debt free with the most  financially secure position in 50 years then. 

 

Points stand.

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

In that seven years we've been promoted 

Ended up 3rd, 5th, 6th and 6th

That has been at least average for us in my life time. 

We also made 2 sc finals. 

 

The outlier is demotion. 

That was completed by a vote with 8 games left. 

 

We are now promoted again. 

 

We are also debt free and have built a stand with a host of other functions completed as well. 

 

When you take away all the emotion and opinions the outlier is the demotion, everything else is what Hearts have been in my life time - ups and downs. 

 

Demotion, although we were bottom I won't forget we were voted down as others benefited by a corrupt leadership. 

 

All in the past, tho and 100% not Robbies fault. 

 

We are now promoted again. 

 

We have a new structure in place, a sound financial footing and unlike some I'm ready for Hearts to get back to the top and start handing out medicine, under Robbie or another. 

 

Starving the club of funds won't help. 

 

Just discounting if we don’t finish top 4 next season it will be the 2nd worst run in our history? Not quite the average for your lifetime. 
We are not debt free, we owe Budge £3.1m that she loaned to us because of her awful decisions, including the over budget unfinished stand built by her brother. 
The regime have used £60m of the fans money to get us back where we started. 
But we’re promoted now so no worries, it’s all in the past. 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

There Popescu remark does it for me Tbh. 

He was a ch with top flight experience with St Mirren. 

 

We were in the championship in a reduced season - what type of quality did you expect? 

 

We also lost out on Findlay recently. 

 

Reality check required imo. 

 

 

Popescu is the tip of a recruitment iceberg. 

GMS is another. Shay Logan with 4 games left?

I could go on and on and on. 

Neilson's signings are poor, or rather Neilson's 'brand' of football is poor and the signings are therefore perfect for it. 

 

The reality check will come. It'll come next season when Neilson takes his team (no doubt with new players similar to Popescu/GMS) to the Premiership and tries Neilson-ball on teams full of guys who play football for a living. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Tosh, we are not debt free. Budge has funded a deficit. Indeed, one purported reason for the FoH takeover not being completed is this debt but no one truly knows as apparently it is because we all want a party.

Indeed, I’ve made a ***** of this here’s a loan with interest that you need to pay back before I leave the board. 

[HMFC 86]

22 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

as I said above (accidentally omitting the quote) I admire SRB’s ability to stand up to narrow group think and respond rationally in the face of persistent provocation. 

Laughable post, but what we’ve come to expect from the Levein/Budge/ Neilson supporters over the last few years

[Hearts1975]

What is the point in having a woman In Charge of the football club and one, by her own admission, I might add, that doesn’t have a clue about how to run a football club . Makes no sense, whatsoever. 

 

The appointment of Andrew McKinlay is another enigma - a golf enthusiast who has been posted missing and since he started. What does he actually do or is supposed to do ? 
 

Then there is the manager and his coaching buddies - don’t doubt RN wants the best for Hearts, but it’s unfortunate that he can’t see, that by him removing himself, that it would be the best thing for the club. 
 

It needs cleared starting with Ann Budge. Change is good - it’s refreshing - it doesn’t need or have to be negative. She has had 7 years. Time for something different and to Breath new life into the club 

 

Not saying nothing at this point and against Savage. Comes with a good pedigree and would be good to see what he can bring moving forward.

 

Highly sceptical, that the others mentioned, 

will do likewise 

[Silvery_Moon]

46 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Poor with Utd too, if irc they played Hibs last year and it was the slow laborious build up we’ve witnessed this season. 

Yep. I'm sure Inverness also turned them over at Tannadice in the cup the season before. 

[Hearts1975]

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Replace debt free with the most  financially secure position in 50 years then. 

 

Points stand.

 

 

You said earlier on that the last 7 years and based on performance were par for the course in your time supporting the club 

 

If we are at the point of being the most financially secure in the last 50 years, is this not further evidence that we should be doing better and the expectations should be a lot higher ? 

[Des Lynam]

33 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

Personally, I admire SRB’s ability to stand up to narrow group-think and respond rationally in the face of persistent provocation. 

     
 

[Agentjambo]

15 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

There Popescu remark does it for me Tbh. 

He was a ch with top flight experience with St Mirren. 

 

We were in the championship in a reduced season - what type of quality did you expect? 

 

We also lost out on Findlay recently. 

 

Reality check required imo. 

 

 

Looser mentality....you on the board??

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

Outstanding post

 

 

Cheers, not sure it is that good 😂but imo perfectly logical and balanced. 

[martoon]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Popescu is the tip of a recruitment iceberg. 

GMS is another. Shay Logan with 4 games left?

I could go on and on and on. 

Neilson's signings are poor, or rather Neilson's 'brand' of football is poor and the signings are therefore perfect for it. 

 

The reality check will come. It'll come next season when Neilson takes his team (no doubt with new players similar to Popescu/GMS) to the Premiership and tries Neilson-ball on teams full of guys who play football for a living. 

 

Feck, what a sobering thought.

 

[luckydug]

53 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Fail to finish top 4?  There is nothing like setting unreasonable targets to have something to moan about.

 

Top 6 would be a fair season.

I think top four is a reasonable target. 

Celebrating a top 6 finish is accepting the level of mediocrity we have attained over the last few seasons. 

[Mars plastic]

22 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Agree. 

 

Top 4 should be the target. 

Top 6 is bare minimum. 

 

I think whoever is manager we'll achieve something like that. 

I have no fear of hibs either who are third, easily catchable imo. 

 

Given ‘Robbie’ will unfortunately be in charge and his, ahem, eye for a player, we’ll be nowhere near third. Third of the bottom six is a more realistic target for the Paisley Pep.

[Nookie Bear]

25 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Just discounting if we don’t finish top 4 next season it will be the 2nd worst run in our history? Not quite the average for your lifetime. 
We are not debt free, we owe Budge £3.1m that she loaned to us because of her awful decisions, including the over budget unfinished stand built by her brother. 
The regime have used £60m of the fans money to get us back where we started. 
But we’re promoted now so no worries, it’s all in the past. 

Think of the “bigger picture”, peasant. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So again, let's assume Neilson stays. Based on his previous transfer windows with HMFC, why should anyone be confident that his signings will improve things? Give us some evidence.

[Rods]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So again, let's assume Neilson stays. Based on his previous transfer windows with HMFC, why should anyone be confident that his signings will improve things? Give us some evidence.

 

I was under the impression the transfer window will be on Savage's watch rather than Neilson's?

[The Shed Floodlight]

4 hours ago, Hashimoto said:

Absolutely.....However, the pseudo supporters on this forum will just see Brora as a bump on the road towards champions league football with Neilson leading from the front.

I really question the sanity of some on here!

Neilson Out

Exactly. Also the fact the club have not acknowledged the most disastrous result in our history tells you all you need to know about how the club is run.

[Pasquale for King]

29 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Given ‘Robbie’ will unfortunately be in charge and his, ahem, eye for a player, we’ll be nowhere near third. Third of the bottom six is a more realistic target for the Paisley Pep.

Paisley Pep hahahahaha love it 😆👍🏽👏🏾

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Rods said:

 

I was under the impression the transfer window will be on Savage's watch rather than Neilson's?

We can but hope. 

[fast_blood]

4 minutes ago, Rods said:

 

I was under the impression the transfer window will be on Savage's watch rather than Neilson's?

 

This

[glynnlondon]

5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So again, let's assume Neilson stays. Based on his previous transfer windows with HMFC, why should anyone be confident that his signings will improve things? Give us some evidence.

Who knows our previous track record would say not.

Tho perhaps Savage will awaken like Bagpuss in the close season and all will be well re signings.

I have my doubts

[Jodami]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So again, let's assume Neilson stays. Based on his previous transfer windows with HMFC, why should anyone be confident that his signings will improve things? Give us some evidence.

Even if we signed decent players the issue is Neilson is clueless about setting a team up. As soon as teams sussed us after the first round of games he was unable to make changes to break teams down. To put things in perspective we have one of the best strikers in Scotland and can't find a way to maximise it. Our international goalkeeper is the principal reason we won the league so easily and his absence led to the worst result in our history. This is why it won't improve until he is removed.

[Hashimoto]

6 minutes ago, Rods said:

 

I was under the impression the transfer window will be on Savage's watch rather than Neilson's?

Not as I understand.

Did we not read that Neilson would identify his targets and Savage would go away and follow up with the signing negotiations? 

Seems like Neilson will be calling the shots when it comes to recruitment...sigh!!! 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Even if we signed decent players the issue is Neilson is clueless about setting a team up. As soon as teams sussed us after the first round of games he was unable to make changes to break teams down. To put things in perspective we have one of the best strikers in Scotland and can't find a way to maximise it. Our international goalkeeper is the principal reason we won the league so easily and his absence led to the worst result in our history. This is why it won't improve until he is removed.

These are pretty much my thoughts as well. 

[colinzeal]

2 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

Not as I understand.

Did we not read that Neilson would identify his targets and Savage would go away and follow up with the signing negotiations? 

Seems like Neilson will be calling the shots when it comes to recruitment...sigh!!! 

I  think it is more that Neilson will identify positions and attributes he wants players for. Savage will go and identify personnel and then Neilson will pick his preferred option. 

[glynnlondon]

We'll go through the same cycle of continually lowering the bar in face of poor results and performance.

How long till the narrative is shifted to the old trope of it being difficult for newly promoted clubs and consolidation in the league was always the aim.

Ho hum nothing much changes till Budge leaves.

Open revolt may move things along sooner the better for all concerned imo

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

Not as I understand.

Did we not read that Neilson would identify his targets and Savage would go away and follow up with the signing negotiations? 

Seems like Neilson will be calling the shots when it comes to recruitment...sigh!!! 

No Savage identifies the targets and Neilson picks them I think, like McEneff. Neilson asks for an attacking RB and Savage gives him 3 choices. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, glynnlondon said:

We'll go through the same cycle of continually lowering the bar in face of poor results and performance.

How long till the narrative is shifted to the old trope of it being difficult for newly promoted clubs and consolidation in the league was always the aim.

Ho hum nothing much changes till Budge leaves.

Open revolt may move things along sooner the better for all concerned imo

Absolutely, and after stating that RN had us 3rd when we went up as a reason to back him will

then say it’s different this time as another reason to defend him. 

[Hashimoto]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

No Savage identifies the targets and Neilson picks them I think, like McEneff. Neilson asks for an attacking RB and Savage gives him 3 choices. 

OK, happy to be corrected!

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Hashimoto said:

OK, happy to be corrected!

Hopefully it will mean a better quality of player who can adapt to the next managers tactics. Savage must see the writing on the wall

and prepare for it. 

[JackLadd]

Oot and oot

Edited April 18, 2021 by JackLadd

[sadj]

5 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

The myth that 'everyone knew' the St Mirren game was effectively a relegation play-off before the game, has gained traction recently.

Here's the match day thread, I saw one person in about 30 pages raising the possibility of football being suspended prior to kick off.

The rewriting of history to suit a particular agenda would make Big Brother blush.

 

 

It hasnt really , plenty of folk were talking about it. I havent read that thread but because its not posted on a jkb thread doesnt mean it wasnt in the air or being discussed. 
 

it also doesnt change the fact that the performance was as abysmal as any weve seen over the last few years. 
 

someone said Stendel gave us two of our best ever performances v Rangers which is utter shite. By that metric Cathro gave us one of our best ever too. He got us a great result but the performance v Rangers in the 4-1 wasnt that good. Same with the people who say our 2-0 win over Rangers in Neilsons last game was a great performance. It wasnt it was as attritional as most of Neilsons performances are. Difference between all three above is Neilson has got results consistently. 
 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

55 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Given ‘Robbie’ will unfortunately be in charge and his, ahem, eye for a player, we’ll be nowhere near third. Third of the bottom six is a more realistic target for the Paisley Pep.

 

We were last time tho. 

To remind, Robbies league positions with us-

1st

3rd

Left in 2nd

1st

 

If anything we are a pretty safe bet for a good league finish and certainly not at a disadvantage having Robbie in charge. 

 

Nothing suggests we'll be poor in the league under him. 

 

Cup progress is a different matter tho. 

[sadj]

21 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

Not as I understand.

Did we not read that Neilson would identify his targets and Savage would go away and follow up with the signing negotiations? 

Seems like Neilson will be calling the shots when it comes to recruitment...sigh!!! 

Not how it works mate 👍🏻

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, sadj said:

It hasnt really , plenty of folk were talking about it. I havent read that thread but because its not posted on a jkb thread doesnt mean it wasnt in the air or being discussed. 
 

it also doesnt change the fact that the performance was as abysmal as any weve seen over the last few years. 
 

someone said Stendel gave us two of our best ever performances v Rangers which is utter shite. By that metric Cathro gave us one of our best ever too. He got us a great result but the performance v Rangers in the 4-1 wasnt that good. Same with the people who say our 2-0 win over Rangers in Neilsons last game was a great performance. It wasnt it was as attritional as most of Neilsons performances are. Difference between all three above is Neilson has got results consistently. 
 

 

I said it was two of our best home performances against Rangers, because I loved the way we pressed them into submission.The 4:1 under Cathro was pretty good too.  
Could you name any better ones? 

[sadj]

15 minutes ago, glynnlondon said:

We'll go through the same cycle of continually lowering the bar in face of poor results and performance.

How long till the narrative is shifted to the old trope of it being difficult for newly promoted clubs and consolidation in the league was always the aim.

Ho hum nothing much changes till Budge leaves.

Open revolt may move things along sooner the better for all concerned imo

Open Revolt? I love peoples use of language on here. Makes me picture something like the French Revolution. 
 

I think the minimum next season has to be top 6. Somewhere between consolidation and where we should be. The make up of the squad will be different I think. Imo we only need a couple of changes in the first XI to be more than competitive. Wether that also brings entertainment people want is very different. 
 

The club coming up determines if its difficult or not. Teams like Dundee , St Mirren , Hamilton it can be. Teams like Livi with no expectation its a lot easier. Teams like Rangers , Hibs and us - simple consolidation should never be “difficult”

[Rods]

7 minutes ago, sadj said:

Not how it works mate 👍🏻

 

Yeh I was going to say that to @Hashimoto

 

My understaning of the structure is Savage finds and recruits the players. Neilson just says the positions he beleive's needs strengthend. 

 

McEneff and Gnando are two examples.

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, glynnlondon said:

We'll go through the same cycle of continually lowering the bar in face of poor results and performance.

How long till the narrative is shifted to the old trope of it being difficult for newly promoted clubs and consolidation in the league was always the aim.

Ho hum nothing much changes till Budge leaves.

Open revolt may move things along sooner the better for all concerned imo

Open revolt is the only thing that makes her change her stubborn view, usually a financial one as our money is all she gives a **** about. 

[sadj]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I said it was two of our best home performances against Rangers, because I loved the way we pressed them into submission.The 4:1 under Cathro was pretty good too.  
Could you name any better ones? 

I think the 1-0 in 2006 , 3-0 at Ibrox , 3-2 in Scottish Cup 86 are all far better performances for a start. 
 

Stendels games it felt like most at the moment we get a goal we can do ok , if not 🤷🏻‍♂️ I really didn’t feel like we pressed Rangers into submission in those games
 

The 3-0 v Hibs was a great performance but even that could have gone the other way until we got the goal.

 

The 4-1 under Cathro was lucky more than anything.

 

The 4-0 v Celtic was a brilliant performance , tactically and performance levels. 
 

 

Meant to add Sc 98 too - that was a team performance too where despite the pressure , outside of our own fears of conceding a goal because of the historic nature of the game , watching back you never felt we werent in control

Edited April 18, 2021 by sadj