Irving - signs for SK Austria Klagenfurt ( updated )

[stotty]

22 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Minnows in Germany? How would Germans describe a team that struggled in most games in the second tier in Scotland. And when last seen in Europe some time ago lost to Birkirkara. Of Malta.

Hearts are a huge club compared to what he's just signed for, just because they're from Germany doesn't mean it's a good career move. 

[GinRummy]

26 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Minnows in Germany? How would Germans describe a team that struggled in most games in the second tier in Scotland. And when last seen in Europe some time ago lost to Birkirkara. Of Malta.

If they knew their football they’d describe us as a much, much bigger club than themselves. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by GinRummy

[Unknown user]

28 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Minnows in Germany? How would Germans describe a team that struggled in most games in the second tier in Scotland. And when last seen in Europe some time ago lost to Birkirkara. Of Malta.

In what way are they not minnows in Germany?

[Francis Albert]

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

In what way are they not minnows in Germany?

In the way that the top tier in Scotland is packed with minnows by German standards.

[Yoda]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furkan_Zorba

 

I imagine Hearts will be keeping tabs on this chap. Shares the same first name as most of his potential team mates, and would have the fans chanting his name.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

As I said above, HMFC will be the biggest club he ever plays for.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Minnows in Germany? How would Germans describe a team that struggled in most games in the second tier in Scotland. And when last seen in Europe some time ago lost to Birkirkara. Of Malta.

2/10 - you can do much better than this

[Francis Albert]

31 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

2/10 - you can do much better than this

Irving has played most of his career playing against teams who would struggle in  the third tier in Germany.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

46 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Irving has played most of his career playing against teams who would struggle in  the third tier in Germany.

Of course. Your attempt was just about Irving.

[Diadora Van Basten]

What an idiot. His agent has just ruined his career.

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Of course. Your attempt was just about Irving.

I am not sure  what attempt you mean. I was commenting on the dismissal of Irving 's new team as a minnow. When our own giants have struggled to perform against lesser teams for much of the last year and more.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

In the way that the top tier in Scotland is packed with minnows by German standards.

 

I don't see attendances for this season, but for last season they never got a home league crowd over a thousand as far as I can tell.

 

3 figure attendances = minnows in Germany.

 

 

[Bongo 1874]

All the best Andy 👍. 

[Bongo 1874]

8 hours ago, GinRummy said:

F

That’s even more bizzare. He had the chance to sign for Barnsley but needed up in Germany playing for a nothing club? Just so strange. 

Barnsley only seen him as backup. 

[Francis Albert]

14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I don't see attendances for this season, but for last season they never got a home league crowd over a thousand as far as I can tell.

 

3 figure attendances = minnows in Germany.

 

 

Hamilton Accies for example minnows in German terms. Almost every team Irving faced last season minnows in German terms. The resentment of someone thinking there might be another way forward than playing in Scotland just annoys me. Like when Hickey goes to Bologna (obviously a vastly higher level) there are posters who say he will be coming back to us on loan. I wish Irving well and it is potentially a great move for him.

 

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Hamilton Accies for example minnows in German terms. Almost every team Irving faced last season minnows in German terms. The resentment of someone thinking there might be another way forward than playing in Scotland just annoys me. Like when Hickey goes to Bologna (obviously a vastly higher level) there are posters who say he will be coming back to us on loan. I wish Irving well and it is potentially a great move for him.

 

 

All the guy was saying was why would Irving leave his boyhood heroes for minnows in Germany. The draw from Hearts is obvious, he's a boyhood fan, been with the club since he was 8, he was staking a claim for a regular starting place.

 

Meanwhile the club he signed for are minnows, without a doubt, he's looking at playing in front of 5% of tynie in home games, and it's not like they're linked to a big club or known for developing players.

 

What is there to argue with there?

[Maple Leaf]

I can't help but wonder where things went wrong with Irving.

 

He is a die-hard Jambo who has been in the Hearts organisation for 13 years.  He has 40+ appearances for the first team, plus 4 appearances for Scotland youth teams.  He was one of our lowest paid players, maybe even the lowest paid.  He wanted to stay with Hearts, but now he's gone.  What are we saving by Irving leaving?  A whopping grand a week, based on comments in this thread. 

 

And what did we get in return for the 13 year investment in his career?  Maybe a development fee, but no-one seems clear how much that will be or when we'll get it.  Maybe we'll get nowt. It seems like a poor deal to me, but time will tell.

 

Despite some appalling performances last year, Neilson's job is safe because he won the league.  Fair enough, but Irving was a prominent member of the team that won the league, and was in the starting line-up for most of the season, so maybe he should have been cut a bit of slack.

 

Maybe Irving has passed the peak of his career, as some on this thread are predicting.  At 21 years of age, he has plenty of time to improve, so those predictions are premature, and we should have tried harder to keep him, imo.

 

One thing I do know is that RN and Joe Savage have yet to prove their recruiting skills at HMFC, so no-one should assume that they've done the right thing here.  Again, time will tell.

 

Best wishes for a long and successful career, Andy. 

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

All the guy was saying was why would Irving leave his boyhood heroes for minnows in Germany. The draw from Hearts is obvious, he's a boyhood fan, been with the club since he was 8, he was staking a claim for a regular starting place.

 

Meanwhile the club he signed for are minnows, without a doubt, he's looking at playing in front of 5% of tynie in home games, and it's not like they're linked to a big club or known for developing players.

 

What is there to argue with there?

You would have to ask Irving why he would leave. But he has and it was his  decision and I wish him well. And I'd add that the better players in wee countries like ours go abroad (and in a Scotland context I don't just mean England) to progress and relatively few Scots do go outside the UK. Which contributes to our parochialism compared to say for example Croatia. So when one does, why deride the decision?

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

You would have to ask Irving why he would leave. But he has and it was his  decision and I wish him well. And I'd add that the better players in wee countries like ours go abroad (and in a Scotland context I don't just mean England) to progress and relatively few Scots do go outside the UK. Which contributes to our parochialism compared to say for example Croatia. So when one does, why deride the decision?

The guy wasn't deriding the decision, just asking what would make this particular move more attractive than staying with his boyhood heroes.

 

No one's slagging the concept of moving abroad, just asking why this move to this club over Hearts.

It's a totally reasonable question, let it go.

 

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The guy wasn't deriding the decision, just asking what would make this particular move more attractive than staying with his boyhood heroes.

 

No one's slagging the concept of moving abroad, just asking why this move to this club over Hearts.

It's a totally reasonable question, let it go.

 

I think I answered the question.

Staying with his boyhood heroes? He is a professional footballer.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Central Belt 1874]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

I can't help but wonder where things went wrong with Irving.

 

He is a die-hard Jambo who has been in the Hearts organisation for 13 years.  He has 40+ appearances for the first team, plus 4 appearances for Scotland youth teams.  He was one of our lowest paid players, maybe even the lowest paid.  He wanted to stay with Hearts, but now he's gone.  What are we saving by Irving leaving?  A whopping grand a week, based on comments in this thread. 

 

And what did we get in return for the 13 year investment in his career?  Maybe a development fee, but no-one seems clear how much that will be or when we'll get it.  Maybe we'll get nowt. It seems like a poor deal to me, but time will tell.

 

Despite some appalling performances last year, Neilson's job is safe because he won the league.  Fair enough, but Irving was a prominent member of the team that won the league, and was in the starting line-up for most of the season, so maybe he should have been cut a bit of slack.

 

Maybe Irving has passed the peak of his career, as some on this thread are predicting.  At 21 years of age, he has plenty of time to improve, so those predictions are premature, and we should have tried harder to keep him, imo.

 

One thing I do know is that RN and Joe Savage have yet to prove their recruiting skills at HMFC, so no-one should assume that they've done the right thing here.  Again, time will tell.

 

Best wishes for a long and successful career, Andy. 

 

Nothing has went wrong with Irving. He just isn't good enough for a Hearts team looking to get back into the top 4 of Scottish football. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I am satisfied he has now left. 

 

I would question the poor managment and running of the club over the past 4-5 years that allowed someone like him to even get into the first 11.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Standards at this club and among some fans have dropped significantly since Budge arrived.

 

There's still along way to go. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Central Belt 1874

[Kiwidoug]

If I was given the choice of Ginnelly or Irvine I'd take Ginnelly.

[Arthur Morgan]

He won't play for a bigger club than us in whole career, won't be missed.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Arthur Morgan said:

He won't play for a bigger club than us in whole career, won't be missed.

Correct. This thread will be his biggest legacy.

[Francis Albert]

What happened to that "Irving get him signed" thread?

He didn't sign presumably.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Bongo 1874]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

I can't help but wonder where things went wrong with Irving.

 

He is a die-hard Jambo who has been in the Hearts organisation for 13 years.  He has 40+ appearances for the first team, plus 4 appearances for Scotland youth teams.  He was one of our lowest paid players, maybe even the lowest paid.  He wanted to stay with Hearts, but now he's gone.  What are we saving by Irving leaving?  A whopping grand a week, based on comments in this thread. 

 

And what did we get in return for the 13 year investment in his career?  Maybe a development fee, but no-one seems clear how much that will be or when we'll get it.  Maybe we'll get nowt. It seems like a poor deal to me, but time will tell.

 

Despite some appalling performances last year, Neilson's job is safe because he won the league.  Fair enough, but Irving was a prominent member of the team that won the league, and was in the starting line-up for most of the season, so maybe he should have been cut a bit of slack.

 

Maybe Irving has passed the peak of his career, as some on this thread are predicting.  At 21 years of age, he has plenty of time to improve, so those predictions are premature, and we should have tried harder to keep him, imo.

 

One thing I do know is that RN and Joe Savage have yet to prove their recruiting skills at HMFC, so no-one should assume that they've done the right thing here.  Again, time will tell.

 

Best wishes for a long and successful career, Andy. 

Great Post. 

 

[Maple Leaf]

36 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

Nothing has went wrong with Irving. He just isn't good enough for a Hearts team looking to get back into the top 4 of Scottish football. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I am satisfied he has now left. 

 

I would question the poor managment and running of the club over the past 4-5 years that allowed someone like him to even get into the first 11.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Standards at this club and among some fans have dropped significantly since Budge arrived.

 

There's still along way to go. 

 

It wasn't Budge who picked Irving 4 times to represent Scotland.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Maple Leaf said:

 

It wasn't Budge who picked Irving 4 times to represent Scotland.

 

How many times did Clum pull on a Scotland shirt? Pulling on a Scotland jersey at Under-X age levels means chuff all!

[jambo-rocker]

Only player to break through to the first team in years. Says nothing other than get a ****ing grip he wasn't good enough or get a ****ing grip we should be churning out better. Amiryt

Edited June 22, 2021 by jambo-rocker

[Maple Leaf]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

 

How many times did Clum pull on a Scotland shirt? Pulling on a Scotland jersey at Under-X age levels means chuff all!

 

What's that got to do with Irving?  Is there a higher national recognition he should have attained?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

14 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

What's that got to do with Irving?  Is there a higher national recognition he should have attained?

I'm saying the recognition is meaningless.

[No Idle Talk]

So many things I could say about this player and people's attitude towards him. But I won't.

 

I will simply say good luck Andy. You're better than some people think you are. Go prove me right young man. 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I think I answered the question.

Staying with his boyhood heroes? He is a professional footballer.

 

Cool, we'll pretend this isn't about you being triggered by the word minnows then

[Guest ToqueJambo]

9 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

Embarrassing mate 

 

Hearts fans using this to have a go at the club is mate yes.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Minnows in Germany? How would Germans describe a team that struggled in most games in the second tier in Scotland. And when last seen in Europe some time ago lost to Birkirkara. Of Malta.

 

I thought we'd scraped the barrel the other day when a supposed Hearts fan on this forum said Kevin Nisbet was as good as John Robertson. Now another supposed Hearts fan thinks Hearts and Türkgücü München are comparable.

[Gulf Jambo]

I like Irving, but he was never too well suited to Scottish football. 

He prefers the ball at his feet and time on it to pick a pass. 

Have a feeling that he could do well in Germany

 

I don't see it as a bad thing that young players like Irving, Gould, Henderson are going out to different European league's to play.

 

We need more Scottish players abroad and the style seems more suited to them

 

Wishing him well and hopefully he kicks on and fulfils his potential

[gregzy2k7]

Good luck to the porty pirlo hope it works out for him, however im not too fussed that he is gone.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Roman Plesche, sporting director added: "With his good physique, his extraordinary left foot and also his ability to steer a game, Andy already brings some important components to his game at the age of 21,” he said.

 

I'd be interested to know which game he's referring to here. The frustration with Andy was he didn't do that, despite seeming to have the ability. He's a playmaker who doesn't dictate the play. Maybe they can get that out of him in a different (slower, more technical) football league. In recent years, Haring, Gomis and Djoum have all been able to control the midfield in games, before them Ian Black and Paul Hartley. Maybe that's expecting too much of Irving at 21, but he's still all potential right now so I can understand why we couldn't guarantee him a starting place.

 

German teams are taking an interest in Scottish young players right now so maybe there's a window where they're willing to take a risk on a young player around this age but any older and there are fewer chances. So it could have been a now or never type move from Irving's perspective. Still one of the strangest decisions I've seen from a young Hearts player.

Edited June 23, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[77Mackay77]

14 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

Way I see it, may be wrong. Asked for daft wages, everyone saw him as not in the game for the right reasons so there were no offers. Lowered them and this was his only option. Seen it before, I think he's made a mistake 

So so so far from the truth. 

[77Mackay77]

18 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

German 3rd tier = SPL standard minus Rangers and Celtic. 

 

The reason Andy leaving is what he heard from Robbie and Joe. There was no real attempt to convince Andy that Hearts was the place for him to stay, play and develop. Robbie told him he still saw him as a development player and never did tell him the 'plan' he had for him that he mentioned in the EEN a few weeks back. Why not tell a laddie you see every day at training? 

 

Joe told him he should sign because he'd done nothing, played against no one, hadn't won anything and no one would pay a fee for him, so sign.

 

Andy only ever rejected one offer despite what was said in the press. Ann Budge was different class and did everything she could.

 

Ultimately, what Robbie and Joe said made Andy's decision for him. Andy was looking for a half-decent offer (the 2nd one was fine) and a 'you're a valued member of the squad and will be a big part going forward'. That would have seen it signed in January.

 

Disappointing the way it has ended up considering Andy has been going to Tynie since he was 2 and half and has been at the club since his 8th birthday. Anyway, that's professional football for you. 

 

Andy didn't 'hold the club to ransom', didn't have his head turned by agents, didn't think he was bigger than the club, the most un-billy big-time person. Just a normal, down to earth laddie trying to make a long-term career in football. 

 

Hearts removed the second offer weeks ago. Munchen came in a couple of weeks back and made Andy a very good offer. Union Berlin were keen to take him with a loan to a 2nd league club, but in the end Munchen were really keen and it seems like a good entry point into German football. Time will tell if this is the right move, but based upon what he heard, staying at Hearts wasn't.

Pretty much bang on. 

[Nookie Bear]

Let’s see who replaces him. 

[Dazo]

All the best Andy. Brave decision but it’s a career choice gamble rather than decision made with the heart. Seems people want him to sign and be happy to sit on the bench. I’m sure he tried his best when he played for us so not sure the laddie deserves to be mocked or put down. He’ll get the chance to play far more regular football you’d image which will help his development. Time will tell. 

[Ron Burgundy]

Liked him a lot. Hope he does well.

[Nookie Bear]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

Roman Plesche, sporting director added: "With his good physique, his extraordinary left foot and also his ability to steer a game, Andy already brings some important components to his game at the age of 21,” he said.

 

I'd be interested to know which game he's referring to here. The frustration with Andy was he didn't do that, despite seeming to have the ability. He's a playmaker who doesn't dictate the play. Maybe they can get that out of him in a different (slower, more technical) football league. In recent years, Haring, Gomis and Djoum have all been able to control the midfield in games, before them Ian Black and Paul Hartley. Maybe that's expecting too much of Irving at 21, but he's still all potential right now so I can understand why we couldn't guarantee him a starting place.

 

German teams are taking an interest in Scottish young players right now so maybe there's a window where they're willing to take a risk on a young player around this age but any older and there are fewer chances. So it could have been a now or never type move from Irving's perspective. Still one of the strangest decisions I've seen from a young Hearts player.

 

You're right in that we probably do expect too much from him.

 

As it seems we are either unable or unwilling to spend the kind of money that will get us a ready-made midfielder it is really up to us to develop what we have, and that includes investing in them while they find their feet.

 

No guarantees for a starting position, but certainly a financial commitment to their future at the club.

[Fozzyonthefence]

19 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

German 3rd tier = SPL standard minus Rangers and Celtic. 

 

How do you know?  How many German 3rd tier games have you seen?  I would imagine very few, if any, on this forum are qualified to make that argument either way.

 

More interesting comparison if you’d said English 3rd tier where we know they have bigger clubs than many of our Premiership clubs and we can watch them on Sky if we can be arsed.  I’d be very surprised if the German 3rd tier compares well to the English 3rd tier but that’s just me guessing. 

[King prawn]

He seems to be getting better the longer this thread goes on. 

 

I still don't think he will go on to play for a bigger club than Hearts but good luck to him. New country, new culture, new language all whilst being paid to kick a football around - not a bad life. 

[Wilson Wood, Would You?]

 

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

How do you know?  How many German 3rd tier games have you seen?  I would imagine very few, if any, on this forum are qualified to make that argument either way.

 

More interesting comparison if you’d said English 3rd tier where we know they have bigger clubs than many of our Premiership clubs and we can watch them on Sky if we can be arsed.  I’d be very surprised if the German 3rd tier compares well to the English 3rd tier but that’s just me guessing. 

I’ve actually attended German third tier matches , though I would caveat that with the fact it was prior to the Bundesliga 3 so it was Regional Liga. It wasn’t as good as Scottish premier league and comprised a handful of bigger clubs ( I was watching Hannover 96 ) experiencing hard times with a lot of tiny clubs that even the 96 fans had never heard of. 

[Harry Potter]

7 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I thought we'd scraped the barrel the other day when a supposed Hearts fan on this forum said Kevin Nisbet was as good as John Robertson. Now another supposed Hearts fan thinks Hearts and Türkgücü München are comparable.

Nisbet could not lace wee robbos boots, strange this place a times, maybe a disguised hobo said this.

[hmfc_liam06]

10 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

He was one of our lowest paid players, maybe even the lowest paid.  He wanted to stay with Hearts, but now he's gone.  What are we saving by Irving leaving?  A whopping grand a week, based on comments in this thread.

 

Can you clear this bit up Maple?

 

You claim he's the lowest paid player at Hearts, presumably you're posting that as fact.

 

But then you say he was on a grand a week based on comments on this thread.

 

There's no way the lowest paid player at the club is on £1,000 per week.

 

So my question is, is your post just made up pish?