Irving - signs for SK Austria Klagenfurt ( updated )

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

What's wrong with Hearts being the pinnacle of your career exactly?

Nothing. The issue is the amount that never go on to anything better, including those who have been at higher levels prior to joining us. It’s not like many players are here for 200 plus games, that would put a different spin on it. 

[buzzbomb]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

How do you know I haven't worked in Germany? I've worked all over. Stendel under-estimated Scottish football IMO, and your comment simply backs that up.

Who did you coach ?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, buzzbomb said:

I had plenty to say re Hickey as he was being vilified on here for maybe going to celtic when he wasn't even going to celtic. 

 

I'm not biased, if anyone has blinkers on it's people on here. 

 

I know people at Hearts too. Many do. Edinburgh's a small place. I just don't post actual conversations (supposedly in your case) I'm told 1st hand or hear 2nd hand from someone else who knows someone at Hearts. Anyhow, looking forward to your regular updates on Irving's time in Germany.

[5-1Jambo]

A waste. He will be back in Scotland in 18 months. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Nothing. The issue is the amount that never go on to anything better, including those who have been at higher levels prior to joining us. It’s not like many players are here for 200 plus games, that would put a different spin on it. 

 

There are many that have gone on to better things. One did last season. Before him Patterson. Are Hearts alone responsible for bringing through good footballers in Scotland? There's a dearth of talent everywhere, as reflected in the misfortunes of our national team the last 25 years.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

Who did you coach ?

 

Bayern Munich youth. Prove me wrong. Ask the player I talked to in a car park just before a game when I told him he wasn't good enough.

Edited June 22, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

There are many that have gone on to better things. One did last season. Before him Patterson. Are Hearts alone responsible for bringing through good footballers in Scotland? There's a dearth of talent everywhere, as reflected in the misfortunes of our national team the last 25 years.

I never mentioned the national side. So in the last three seasons or so Hickey went to Bologna and Lafferty back to huns and that’s about it. It can’t be viewed as a good thing that we haven’t been buying players or bringing players through the ranks who have attracted interest from bigger clubs or leagues. As I said, it’d be different if we had players who were staying for 4 or 5 seasons and doing well but we aren’t achieving that either. Just a high turnover of mediocre players who either disappear to lower leagues, football backwaters or retire. 
 

The club clearly see this and are at last saying they want to change it. 

[Ford Prentice]

1 hour ago, buzzbomb said:

German 3rd tier = SPL standard minus Rangers and Celtic. 

 

The reason Andy leaving is what he heard from Robbie and Joe. There was no real attempt to convince Andy that Hearts was the place for him to stay, play and develop. Robbie told him he still saw him as a development player and never did tell him the 'plan' he had for him that he mentioned in the EEN a few weeks back. Why not tell a laddie you see every day at training? 

 

Joe told him he should sign because he'd done nothing, played against no one, hadn't won anything and no one would pay a fee for him, so sign.

 

Andy only ever rejected one offer despite what was said in the press. Ann Budge was different class and did everything she could.

 

Ultimately, what Robbie and Joe said made Andy's decision for him. Andy was looking for a half-decent offer (the 2nd one was fine) and a 'you're a valued member of the squad and will be a big part going forward'. That would have seen it signed in January.

 

Disappointing the way it has ended up considering Andy has been going to Tynie since he was 2 and half and has been at the club since his 8th birthday. Anyway, that's professional football for you. 

 

Andy didn't 'hold the club to ransom', didn't have his head turned by agents, didn't think he was bigger than the club, the most un-billy big-time person. Just a normal, down to earth laddie trying to make a long-term career in football. 

 

Hearts removed the second offer weeks ago. Munchen came in a couple of weeks back and made Andy a very good offer. Union Berlin were keen to take him with a loan to a 2nd league club, but in the end Munchen were really keen and it seems like a good entry point into German football. Time will tell if this is the right move, but based upon what he heard, staying at Hearts wasn't.

Thanks for the background. Interesting that he turned down Union Berlin, Turkgucu Munchen must have been persuasive and I really hope it works out for him. May even justify a weekend in Munich.

 

A bit off topic, I really hope Andy Halliday hasn't been told 'you're a valued member of the squad and will be a big part going forward'.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Ford Prentice said:

Thanks for the background. Interesting that he turned down Union Berlin, Turkgucu Munchen must have been persuasive and I really hope it works out for him. May even justify a weekend in Munich.

 

A bit off topic, I really hope Andy Halliday hasn't been told 'you're a valued member of the squad and will be a big part going forward'.

I would hope we have better than Halliday in our starting 11 but given he can fill in in a few positions and looked competent at wing back last season I am happy for him to stay. We are no strangers to injury crisis and he’s going to be handy in those circumstances, unless he is injured 😀

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Glad that’s finally over with. A move that’s on that line between bravery and stupidity. I personally think it has crossed that line into stupid as I do not particularly rate him as a player, but obviously he’s gambling on the maybe slower, more methodical pace of that level suiting his game better and then trying to get up to the main bundesliga so, all the best to him. 
 

I am happy we have a good amount of funds now to bring a more effective midfielder in. Another Djoum is what’s been needed over the last 2 years imo, not Irving. The weak powderpuff midfield has been a constant thorn in our side and Irving has been a stalwart in many of the very worst displays we’ve had over that 2 year period. 

[Bad Religion]

Another embarrassment. 

[mscjambo]

Good luck to him. Strange move. But not irreplaceable. Hopefully we start to keep the young boys we want to. This move must have been in the pipeline for q while

[Jamboscanbevicius]

That’s a shame. Decent potential but very replaceable. Hope he proves many (including myself) wrong but I doubt this will end up being a great move for him. Fair play to him for having the balls to take the risk! 

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Glad that’s finally over with. A move that’s on that line between bravery and stupidity. I personally think it has crossed that line into stupid as I do not particularly rate him as a player, but obviously he’s gambling on the maybe slower, more methodical pace of that level suiting his game better and then trying to get up to the main bundesliga so, all the best to him. 
 

I am happy we have a good amount of funds now to bring a more effective midfielder in. Another Djoum is what’s been needed over the last 2 years imo, not Irving. The weak powderpuff midfield has been a constant thorn in our side and Irving has been a stalwart in many of the very worst displays we’ve had over that 2 year period. 

I wonder how much of the money saved on Irving, Naisy, Berra etc will actually be reinvested in wages. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

17 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I never mentioned the national side. So in the last three seasons or so Hickey went to Bologna and Lafferty back to huns and that’s about it. It can’t be viewed as a good thing that we haven’t been buying players or bringing players through the ranks who have attracted interest from bigger clubs or leagues. As I said, it’d be different if we had players who were staying for 4 or 5 seasons and doing well but we aren’t achieving that either. Just a high turnover of mediocre players who either disappear to lower leagues, football backwaters or retire. 
 

The club clearly see this and are at last saying they want to change it. 

 

Apparently Irving turned down Barnsley though, and also apparently the German 3rd tier is a higher level than us. We're always told by Hearts detractors on here that the English Championship and even League One are a higher level than Scotland, so what about Washington, Uche, Clare, Edwards, Lee? The fact is there aren't many bigger teams than us in Scotland. And while there are bigger teams in the lower leagues in England they don't offer as good a chance of silverware or Europe as we do, so players who could play at a supposed higher level than Hearts, like Gordon, Smith, Kingsley, Boyce, Naismith, Walker, instead stay with us.

 

The last few years we've been shite so it's no surprise we've not got lots of players creating interest. But there are plenty of examples of Hearts helping players push their careers on from not that long ago. With so much money in the game now though, good players, eg Djoum, often choose the money over a better league.

Edited June 22, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[sadj]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

👍 Cheers for posting. In the meantime the usual suspects who know zilch about the background at Hearts and even less about German football will continue to have a go at the lad. Shame Hearts have failed yet again to keep hold of a promising talent.

 

So you just take the word of someone who says negative but not someone who says positive. Says more about you i think. 
 

Absolutely JS and RN did the right thing if they told him he will not be a mainstay moving forward unless he improves the weak aspects of his game. That going by the post is what made the difference and the likes of yourself would be first to rip into the club if he had stayed been made those promises then we ended up in a relegation dogfight because of it. 
 

Andy may well benefit from the different style and slower game over there. Hopefully it will help him push forward and either mask his failings or he will

overcome them and step up. If he does then he can go far in the game. If he doesn’t he may float about that level for a while. 

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Apparently Irving turned down Barnsley though, and also apparently the German 3rd tier is a higher level than us. We're always told by Hearts detractors on here that the English Championship and even League One are a higher level than Scotland, so what about Washington, Uche, Clare, Edwards, Lee? The fact is there aren't many bigger teams than us in Scotland. And while there are bigger teams in the lower leagues in England they don't offer as good a chance of silverware or Europe as we do, so players who could play at a supposed higher level than Hearts, like Gordon, Smith, Kingsley, Boyce, Naismith, Walker, instead stay with us.

The Irving situation (as I said further up the page) is just utterly baffling to me. I just can’t understand why someone would leave his boyhood club and go to lower level German football. Even if every single word that Buzzbomb said is true I still don’t get his decision. 
 

I don’t consider league 1 a step up from the SPL, not in the slightest. 
 

I’d also add that turning down Barnsley and going to that level in Germany is also a massive fail for Irving and his agent. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by GinRummy

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, GinRummy said:

I wonder how much of the money saved on Irving, Naisy, Berra etc will actually be reinvested in wages. 

Delighted the wage bill and squad size has been trimmed massively. Clearly been identified by the manager as a priority, when he joined, we had about 35 players or something stupid like that.  He’s now emptied about 20+ odd players, but has only actually brought in half that number, all of the inbound players on short 1 or 2 year deals. Thats been the correct way to manage the transitional season of getting us back promoted. As for the war chest I expect we are trying to combine a number of those 10-15 offloaded wages into two or three real quality players. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Delighted the wage bill and squad size has been trimmed massively. Clearly been identified by the manager as a priority, when he joined, we had about 35 players or something stupid like that.  He’s now emptied about 20+ odd players, but has only actually brought in half that number, all of the inbound players on short 1 or 2 year deals. Thats been the correct way to manage the transitional season of getting us back promoted. As for the war chest I expect we are trying to combine a number of those 10-15 offloaded wages into two or three real quality players. 

Yeah, it’s been a largely successful cull. I hope your last sentence turns out to be true.  The suspense is killing me tbh. 

[colinmaroon]

1 hour ago, buzzbomb said:

many games did Marcel play in the second tier? Doubt any. He was a youth player at Schalke. 85 million people in germany vs 6 million in scotland. Hmmm.. And look no further than our ex assistant to Stendel, who thought the SPL was the equivalent to the 3rd league in germany. No doubt you'll know better.

 

What proof do you want of what Joe said. A recording? 

 

Listen, if you don't want to believe it, fine. Go back into your wee Hearts bubble.

 

Using where you got your information to prove the point your making!

 

Tak!  Tak!

[fabienleclerq]

Irving has been imo terribly advised. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The Irving situation (as I said further up the page) is just utterly baffling to me. I just can’t understand why someone would leave his boyhood club and go to lower level German football. Even if every single word that Buzzbomb said is true I still don’t get his decision. 
 

I don’t consider league 1 a step up from the SPL, not in the slightest. 
 

I’d also add that turning down Barnsley and going to that level in Germany is also a massive fail for Irving and his agent. 

 

 

It's pretty clear it's for lifestyle reasons and all this other stuff is bollocks from the usual suspects who love noting more than having a go at Hearts. On a football level the only advantage I can see is he might get more time on the ball at a lower level and play with more technical players.

 

Scottish football is unfortunately not the place for the silkier players like Irving, which is why he stood out and why I really wanted him to stay as he offered something different. He did need to add other things to his game to be an effective player here though. Europe is probably a better place for him so that could be his long-term aim, and we'll find out if he's as good as we thought he could be. 

[DS98]

Thank **** for that. Not good enough. See ya 👋 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

It's pretty clear it's for lifestyle reasons and all this other stuff is bollocks from the usual suspects who love noting more than having a go at Hearts. On a football level the only advantage I can see is he might get more time on the ball at a lower level and play with more technical players.

 

Scottish football is unfortunately not the place for the silkier players like Irving, which is why he stood out and why I really wanted him to stay as he offered something different. He did need to add other things to his game to be an effective player here though. Europe is probably a better place for him so that could be his long-term aim, and we'll find out if he's as good as we thought he could be. 

Fair enough. Maybe he’ll do well at that level. Out of Barnsley, Hearts and forget there name, Barnsley would be the best move for any player imo. If Buzzbomb is right and he turned down Barnsley that makes the whole episode beyond my understanding I’m afraid. Unless his sole ambition was to move to Germany regardless of club or level. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Unless his sole ambition was to move to Germany regardless of club or level. 

 

 

It does sound this way, no matter how much some are trying to make out it's something else. From the man himself in the EEN: "I had the big dream of playing in Germany for some time." Barsnley would have been a great opportunity at a higher level with the EPL one good season away, and would have earned him a lot more money.

Edited June 22, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[tolcross lad]

Really disappointed that Andy Irving has not made it at Hearts.I watched him when on loan as a 17 year old and he looked as though he could develope into a special talent but along with a great range of passing and technical skills came the basic flaws that were evident last season - short of defensive capabilities,slow to the breakdown and at times too static in possession.

For whatever reason he did not progress in the way I had hoped.

In summer 2019 I was walking along Portie Prom with the grandkids enjoying our ice creams and along came Andy walking towards us.When he had passed our chat became all about Hearts.Who was Hearts best player and so on.Oh for some local heroes in our team!

I wish Andy Irving all the best .He may still have a good football career and in later life he can always say that he played for the

Hearts.Not too many of us can say that. 

[Des Lynam]

The more I hear about Joe Savage and the way he works the more I’m warming to him. At last some standards. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yeah, it’s been a largely successful cull. I hope your last sentence turns out to be true.  The suspense is killing me tbh. 

The 11 contacts dished out this summer by Neilson, to the next batch of 16-18 year olds, is another factor as well. Some of the money saved has gone into that. We might’ve only seen 3 or 4 of these kids signing pro contracts. 11 is quite a big number of youngsters from what I recall in recent years. Could even have been something Naisy asked when he retired, wanted a chunk his hefty wage given to a few more youngsters. To be honest his playing wage would have probably funded 6 or 7 of them kids. If that’s not investing in youth, I don’t know what is. As for the previous batch of Irving Moore etc, previous management structure is a lot more to blame. Hopefully Euan Henderson can keep up the momentum he started to build 

[JamboAl]

32 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I wonder how much of the money saved on Irving, Naisy, Berra etc will actually be reinvested in wages. 

Can't quite see what point you're trying to make.

I don't know the answer but

if I told you all of it was going on wages, would that suffice?

or

if I told you we are (maybe) just coming out of a pandemic situation where our revenue streams were hard hit and need to rein in the wage bill, would that be a financially responsible approach?

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

The more I hear about Joe Savage and the way he works the more I’m warming to him. At last some standards. 

In what way?

[XB52]

2 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

German 3rd tier = SPL standard minus Rangers and Celtic. 

 

The reason Andy leaving is what he heard from Robbie and Joe. There was no real attempt to convince Andy that Hearts was the place for him to stay, play and develop. Robbie told him he still saw him as a development player and never did tell him the 'plan' he had for him that he mentioned in the EEN a few weeks back. Why not tell a laddie you see every day at training? 

 

Joe told him he should sign because he'd done nothing, played against no one, hadn't won anything and no one would pay a fee for him, so sign.

 

Andy only ever rejected one offer despite what was said in the press. Ann Budge was different class and did everything she could.

 

Ultimately, what Robbie and Joe said made Andy's decision for him. Andy was looking for a half-decent offer (the 2nd one was fine) and a 'you're a valued member of the squad and will be a big part going forward'. That would have seen it signed in January.

 

Disappointing the way it has ended up considering Andy has been going to Tynie since he was 2 and half and has been at the club since his 8th birthday. Anyway, that's professional football for you. 

 

Andy didn't 'hold the club to ransom', didn't have his head turned by agents, didn't think he was bigger than the club, the most un-billy big-time person. Just a normal, down to earth laddie trying to make a long-term career in football. 

 

Hearts removed the second offer weeks ago. Munchen came in a couple of weeks back and made Andy a very good offer. Union Berlin were keen to take him with a loan to a 2nd league club, but in the end Munchen were really keen and it seems like a good entry point into German football. Time will tell if this is the right move, but based upon what he heard, staying at Hearts wasn't.

Absolute 100% shite. No wonder I've had you on ignore for months 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

Can't quite see what point you're trying to make.

I don't know the answer but

if I told you all of it was going on wages, would that suffice?

or

if I told you we are (maybe) just coming out of a pandemic situation where our revenue streams were hard hit and need to rein in the wage bill, would that be a financially responsible approach?

I wasn’t making a point. I was just wondering. Do you ever just stop for a moment and just wonder?

[XB52]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Guys post background details on why yet another player fails to resign at the club and gets called out as "bitter & negative".  

Guy posts utter made up shite and gets called out

[Jeff]

German 3rd is on par with mid Scottish championship, high league one. Few big teams down there who have fallen to pieces tho

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I wasn’t making a point. I was just wondering. Do you ever just stop for a moment and just wonder?

I do.

I am just wondering what difference it makes one way or the other.

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

The 11 contacts dished out this summer by Neilson, to the next batch of 16-18 year olds, is another factor as well. Some of the money saved has gone into that. We might’ve only seen 3 or 4 of these kids signing pro contracts. 11 is quite a big number of youngsters from what I recall in recent years. Could even have been something Naisy asked when he retired, wanted a chunk his hefty wage given to a few more youngsters. To be honest his playing wage would have probably funded 6 or 7 of them kids. If that’s not investing in youth, I don’t know what is. As for the previous batch of Irving Moore etc, previous management structure is a lot more to blame. Hopefully Euan Henderson can keep up the momentum he started to build 

Don’t know as much as I should about the youth at our club but is surely encouraging that number have been kept on. Glad the Naismith situation is resolved and amicably as well. Plenty to be upbeat about so far this close season. Let’s hope that comtinues and we bring in another 3 good additions on top of Ginnelly. 

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

Slightly surprised by his landing spot but nevertheless good luck to him. 

Yes, good luck to the lad but I suspect he will be back in the championship(Scottish) in a couple of years

[Saint Jambo]

Irving went out and employed an agent who specialises in placing British players into the German market. At the end of his contract he then moves to Germany. And the conclusion some posters want us to reach is that he always wanted to stay at Hearts, was offered an acceptable contract, but didn't like the 'plan' for his development set out by Neilson and Savage even though he was already an integral part of the first team squad. Pull the other one and it will play the Hearts song.

 

From the minute he went with this agency, it has been clear where he was going to end up. That's fine. If he wants to play in Germany good luck to him. Blaming Hearts for him making that decision is ridiculous. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, JamboAl said:

I do.

I am just wondering what difference it makes one way or the other.

Well, it would make a difference to the playing budget. That’s quite important is it not? Similarly it could make a difference to saving the club money if it weren’t re-invested and was used as a saving. Again quite important. 

[buzzbomb]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I know people at Hearts too. Many do. Edinburgh's a small place. I just don't post actual conversations (supposedly in your case) I'm told 1st hand or hear 2nd hand from someone else who knows someone at Hearts. Anyhow, looking forward to your regular updates on Irving's time in Germany.

You won’t get any updates from me. Sure your contacts from Germany will keep you in the loop.

[Des Lynam]

41 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Apparently Irving turned down Barnsley though, and also apparently the German 3rd tier is a higher level than us. We're always told by Hearts detractors on here that the English Championship and even League One are a higher level than Scotland, so what about Washington, Uche, Clare, Edwards, Lee? The fact is there aren't many bigger teams than us in Scotland. And while there are bigger teams in the lower leagues in England they don't offer as good a chance of silverware or Europe as we do, so players who could play at a supposed higher level than Hearts, like Gordon, Smith, Kingsley, Boyce, Naismith, Walker, instead stay with us.

 

The last few years we've been shite so it's no surprise we've not got lots of players creating interest. But there are plenty of examples of Hearts helping players push their careers on from not that long ago. With so much money in the game now though, good players, eg Djoum, often choose the money over a better league.

 

3 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

Irving went out and employed an agent who specialises in placing British players into the German market. At the end of his contract he then moves to Germany. And the conclusion some posters want us to reach is that he always wanted to stay at Hearts, was offered an acceptable contract, but didn't like the 'plan' for his development set out by Neilson and Savage even though he was already an integral part of the first team squad. Pull the other one and it will play the Hearts song.

 

From the minute he went with this agency, it has been clear where he was going to end up. That's fine. If he wants to play in Germany good luck to him. Blaming Hearts for him making that decision is ridiculous. 

   x2 

[buzzbomb]

11 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Absolute 100% shite. No wonder I've had you on ignore for months 

😂 how sad

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Well, it would make a difference to the playing budget. That’s quite important is it not? Similarly it could make a difference to saving the club money if it weren’t re-invested and was used as a saving. Again quite important. 

Not necessarily.  HMFC may already have allocated the playing budget in the full knowledge Irving was not resigning.

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Not necessarily.  HMFC may already have allocated the playing budget in the full knowledge Irving was not resigning.

Very true. Sorry i brought it up. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by GinRummy

[Harry Potter]

What german 3rd division club is he going to, just googled it, they have a Bayern Munchen 11 in it.

 

[buzzbomb]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Bayern Munich youth. Prove me wrong. Ask the player I talked to in a car park just before a game when I told him he wasn't good enough.

Embarrassing mate 

[jambopilms]

Imagine we started next season with Cochrane, McDonald, Irving, Moore, in the starting line up. Good god we would be screwed. Folk just love knocking the club. Young players who don't make the grade move on, it happens all over the world.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

What german 3rd division club is he going to, just googled it, they have a Bayern Munchen 11 in it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Türkgücü_München
 

there you go. 

[Harry Potter]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Türkgücü_München
 

there you go. 

Cheers bud, formed in 1975, quite a new club.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Cheers bud, formed in 1975, quite a new club.

Yep. Quite an interesting history to them. Hope Irving makes a decent fist of it with them.