January transfer window ( Now closed )

[John Rambo]

4 minutes ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

Interesting post with plenty of good points. A reservation would be the bit I've highlighted: have we not already tried this approach - under Levein / Cathro / McPhee - with only very, ahem, "limited" success? (Of course, when analysing any statistical, technical or scientific data, the value of the results will be directly related to the competence, or otherwise, of those doing the analysis...     )

Yes I suppose it does depend on the human element and the aptitude therein!

[merrymac]

11 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Chad Hogan is the name I'm hearing

[pointon]

43 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

In talks with an American Striker. 

Yankee Doodle dandy 

[Zaba]

41 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Said this earlier in the thread - if Moore isn't part of our long term plans then it would make perfect sense to offer him to Airdrie as part of any deal for Robert. I'd say something like Moore + £50k-100k would be a very good offer.

 

From Airdrie's point of view, they're pocketing some cash for someone who cost them nothing, and they're getting an immediate replacement who will probably continue to perform at a similar level for them. 

 

From Lewis' point of view, it's a good move for him since he's probably guaranteed a start every week. If he does well and stands out in a team who are pushing for promotion into the Championship and then also cracks on from there, then it won't be long til he finds himself on smaller Premiership clubs' radars. 

 

£100k for a boy from Airdrieonians 😂😂😂

[Pasquale for King]

45 minutes ago, John Rambo said:

With our structure, funding model ( such as it is right now ) and disparity between us and the ugly sisters we really need to do things differently.

 

We should be taking a leaf out of Brentford's book and looking at how we can replicate this within our parameters. Their owner, Matthew Benham, trusts the 'moneyball' approach and they sign players based on all manner of statistics, matrices and algorithms; they don't necessarily trust a scout who's seen a player play a few games.

 

They repeatedly get lower league gems and sell on for a huge profit; Ollie Watkins from Exeter for £1.5m to Aston Villa for £28m and Ezri Konsa, bought for £2.5m, sold 13 months later for over £12m. This isn't down to just one manager, it is the entire ethos of the Club and is part of the fabric of how they operate.

 

Brentford also operate a 'B' team to great effect which assists their model for progressing as a Club and creating great players.

 

I'd be looking at how we could adopt what Brentford do on our budget and start spending money on technology and improving the scouting/recruitment network to see the value in players that others might not. Let's start looking at some long term value players, not these stop-gap or project players. I mean GMS is 30 years old, why would we want to sign him? To help get out of the division? To help stabilise us in the top flight? To help take us into Europe?

 

If we want to be in European competition within 2 to 3 years, we need to plan for that now. We probably have been planning for this but the 'Football' department doesn't seem to know its elbow from its erchie!

 

I'd also be asking why teams such as Dundalk and F91 Dudelange can make the Europa League group stage and teams outwith the ugly sisters can't. These clubs have smaller budgets compared to us and the sheep yet they seem to make it. Indeed Dundalk beat Faroese team KI Klaksvík in the Europa play off round; you could fit the population of Klaksvik into the Wheatfield. This was a case of the underdog v the under underdog!

 

So how do these tiny wee teams with small budgets make it so far in Europe? Maybe we should be asking them?

 

We need a radical rethink of what we want to achieve as a Club. All this cr*p about, 'we budget for 4th in the League' and suchlike is garbage. Talk about a self fulling prophecy. We should have the stated aim of winning the Premier League EACH AND EVERY SEASON. Why come out with, 'ohh we'll be happy with 3rd, 4th whatever'. Why? This mindset has to stop. It has to stop now. If we have this as the aim, to be happy with 4th, then all we will get is players who buy into this mindset and 'settle' for it. Why?

 

Sure we may not actually win the league every season, we may not win the top flight in the next 10, 20, 30 years but that does not mean we have to 'settle' for not trying to achieve this. If the ugly sisters' budget is 7, 8 perhaps 10 times ours, then our pennies have to work 10 times as hard. We need to do things differently, radically different if required but we need to shake the Club to its Foundations; no pun intended.

 

Until we have a complete change of culture, of ethos at the very, very top of the Club, I fear we are destined to repeat the same failures as before; and what did Einstein say was the definition of insanity?

 

OK rant over, clearly too much time on my hands right now!

 

And far too many exclamation marks used!

 

 

Great post. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Zaba said:

£100k for a boy from Airdrieonians 😂😂😂

You do realise that the boy is Lauent Robert son and is extremely highly rated?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8507225/Newcastle-legend-Laurent-Roberts-son-turns-flight-offers-sign-Airdrie-Scotland.html

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Zaba said:

£100k for a boy from Airdrieonians 😂😂😂

So he plays for a smaller club thus is worth nothing 🤦‍♂️ 

[Weebroon98]

48 minutes ago, John Rambo said:

With our structure, funding model ( such as it is right now ) and disparity between us and the ugly sisters we really need to do things differently.

 

We should be taking a leaf out of Brentford's book and looking at how we can replicate this within our parameters. Their owner, Matthew Benham, trusts the 'moneyball' approach and they sign players based on all manner of statistics, matrices and algorithms; they don't necessarily trust a scout who's seen a player play a few games.

 

They repeatedly get lower league gems and sell on for a huge profit; Ollie Watkins from Exeter for £1.5m to Aston Villa for £28m and Ezri Konsa, bought for £2.5m, sold 13 months later for over £12m. This isn't down to just one manager, it is the entire ethos of the Club and is part of the fabric of how they operate.

 

Brentford also operate a 'B' team to great effect which assists their model for progressing as a Club and creating great players.

 

I'd be looking at how we could adopt what Brentford do on our budget and start spending money on technology and improving the scouting/recruitment network to see the value in players that others might not. Let's start looking at some long term value players, not these stop-gap or project players. I mean GMS is 30 years old, why would we want to sign him? To help get out of the division? To help stabilise us in the top flight? To help take us into Europe?

 

If we want to be in European competition within 2 to 3 years, we need to plan for that now. We probably have been planning for this but the 'Football' department doesn't seem to know its elbow from its erchie!

 

I'd also be asking why teams such as Dundalk and F91 Dudelange can make the Europa League group stage and teams outwith the ugly sisters can't. These clubs have smaller budgets compared to us and the sheep yet they seem to make it. Indeed Dundalk beat Faroese team KI Klaksvík in the Europa play off round; you could fit the population of Klaksvik into the Wheatfield. This was a case of the underdog v the under underdog!

 

So how do these tiny wee teams with small budgets make it so far in Europe? Maybe we should be asking them?

 

We need a radical rethink of what we want to achieve as a Club. All this cr*p about, 'we budget for 4th in the League' and suchlike is garbage. Talk about a self fulling prophecy. We should have the stated aim of winning the Premier League EACH AND EVERY SEASON. Why come out with, 'ohh we'll be happy with 3rd, 4th whatever'. Why? This mindset has to stop. It has to stop now. If we have this as the aim, to be happy with 4th, then all we will get is players who buy into this mindset and 'settle' for it. Why?

 

Sure we may not actually win the league every season, we may not win the top flight in the next 10, 20, 30 years but that does not mean we have to 'settle' for not trying to achieve this. If the ugly sisters' budget is 7, 8 perhaps 10 times ours, then our pennies have to work 10 times as hard. We need to do things differently, radically different if required but we need to shake the Club to its Foundations; no pun intended.

 

Until we have a complete change of culture, of ethos at the very, very top of the Club, I fear we are destined to repeat the same failures as before; and what did Einstein say was the definition of insanity?

 

OK rant over, clearly too much time on my hands right now!

 

And far too many exclamation marks used!

 

 

👏👏👏

[Bozi]

27 minutes ago, John Rambo said:

 

Brentford and FC Midtjylland seem to be doing OK using their version of it so I'd be asking them if we can pick up some ideas.

I get that the money ball system has its benefits but let's look at stats 

 

Olly Lee has 3 goals and 5 assists in 15 games , which is really impressive stats for a midfielder...in fact those are game changing stats.

 

however, his general overall play has been poor, he is slow and he slows down the pace of our play, stats are great and everything but they don't show the whole picture.

 

We have tried with Watt, Amankwa, Mulraney, Martin to get in "hidden gems" with potential or lost their way and they have been disasters really

 

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Brentford’s model is fantastic. Unfortunately it takes effort, vision and talent - three things our recruitment department has been devoid of for ages.

 

Hopefully Savage can change that. Has John Murray ****ed off yet? Surely he will 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

26 minutes ago, Getintaethem said:

Haring was nutmegged and had a poor game.  Just before the nutmeg though Lee should have retained possession when 70/30 favourite for a loose ball.  He was very poor also.

Agree both are poor, for me, neither of them has the legs we need and I’d be looking to move the both of them on as part of the premiership midfield revamp.

[John Rambo]

2 minutes ago, Bozi said:

I get that the money ball system has its benefits but let's look at stats 

 

Olly Lee has 3 goals and 5 assists in 15 games , which is really impressive stats for a midfielder...in fact those are game changing stats.

 

however, his general overall play has been poor, he is slow and he slows down the pace of our play, stats are great and everything but they don't show the whole picture.

 

We have tried with Watt, Amankwa, Mulraney, Martin to get in "hidden gems" with potential or lost their way and they have been disasters really

 

 

 

Maybe we need to change the people at the top? Change the culture as I suggested, the thinking. Change what we want to achieve and how we go about it. I just want us to get out of this cycle of how we attract, coach and retain players or otherwise.

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

Interesting post with plenty of good points. A reservation would be the bit I've highlighted: have we not already tried this approach - under Levein / Cathro / McPhee - with only very, ahem, "limited" success? (Of course, when analysing any statistical, technical or scientific data, the value of the results will be directly related to the competence, or otherwise, of those doing the analysis...     )

As you say it depends on who is doing it.

When Lewis McLeod signed for Brentford for £850k in December 2015 when Rangers where struggling for cash(aren’t they always) he was injured immediately and played 41 times in 4 years. Mark Warburton was the manager, with David Weir as his Assistant. In February 2016 Brentford’s owner decided to go to this new system and not renew Warburtons contract, he then got the Rangers job and took Weir with him. All above board and just coincidence no doubt 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🙈?!?! 
Look at them now, nearly promoted, semi finals of the cup, new stadium and a good team even after selling their best players.

 The cherry on the cake is being supported by Natalie Sawyer 🥰. 
 

[Busby8]

55 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Said this earlier in the thread - if Moore isn't part of our long term plans then it would make perfect sense to offer him to Airdrie as part of any deal for Robert. I'd say something like Moore + £50k-100k would be a very good offer.

 

From Airdrie's point of view, they're pocketing some cash for someone who cost them nothing, and they're getting an immediate replacement who will probably continue to perform at a similar level for them. 

 

From Lewis' point of view, it's a good move for him since he's probably guaranteed a start every week. If he does well and stands out in a team who are pushing for promotion into the Championship and then also cracks on from there, then it won't be long til he finds himself on smaller Premiership clubs' radars. 

 

 

Offer them Frear and Roberts

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Bozi said:

I get that the money ball system has its benefits but let's look at stats 

 

Olly Lee has 3 goals and 5 assists in 15 games , which is really impressive stats for a midfielder...in fact those are game changing stats.

 

however, his general overall play has been poor, he is slow and he slows down the pace of our play, stats are great and everything but they don't show the whole picture.

 

We have tried with Watt, Amankwa, Mulraney, Martin to get in "hidden gems" with potential or lost their way and they have been disasters really

 

 

 

Mulraney ended up making us some money miraculously enough that helped us sign Boyce, but as you say it’s only part of it. As it’s been said above it depends on who is doing the home work on signings. 

[Zaba]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You do realise that the boy is Lauent Robert son and is extremely highly rated?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8507225/Newcastle-legend-Laurent-Roberts-son-turns-flight-offers-sign-Airdrie-Scotland.html

 

12 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

So he plays for a smaller club thus is worth nothing 🤦‍♂️ 

Yes I realise who he is 🤪

 

I’m not saying he’s worth nothing - merely pointing out that there’s not a chance in hell it would take £100k to peel him away from Airdrie (above all else, nobody would pay that); nor would we have any intention of handing that kind of coin over for him. 
 

Whoever signs him will do so for ten or twenty grand, and either a player on loan for a season or perhaps, as suggested, a player no longer required like Lewis Moore. 
 

EDIT - have just realised he’s out of contract in the summer as well. £100k 😂😂

Edited January 6, 2021 by Zaba

[pointon]

Just now, Busby8 said:

 

Offer them Frear and Roberts

We could offer them a full team with all the we still have kicking about 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Busby8 said:

 

Offer them Frear and Roberts

We are trying to persuade them ffs 😜. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Zaba said:

 

Yes I realise who he is 🤪

 

I’m not saying he’s worth nothing - merely pointing out that there’s not a chance in hell it would take £100k to peel him away from Airdrie (above all else, nobody would pay that); nor would we have any intention of handing that kind of coin over for him. 
 

Whoever signs him will do so for ten or twenty grand, and either a player on loan for a season or perhaps, as suggested, a player no longer required like Lewis Moore. 

Possibly, we will see shortly. 

[Berra than you]

11 minutes ago, Bozi said:

I get that the money ball system has its benefits but let's look at stats 

 

Olly Lee has 3 goals and 5 assists in 15 games , which is really impressive stats for a midfielder...in fact those are game changing stats.

 

however, his general overall play has been poor, he is slow and he slows down the pace of our play, stats are great and everything but they don't show the whole picture.

 

We have tried with Watt, Amankwa, Mulraney, Martin to get in "hidden gems" with potential or lost their way and they have been disasters really

 

 

 

To be fair I think that is part of the stats approach taken by these clubs. For example you can afford an Olly Lee type if you have mobile players around him. They don't just look at those simple stats they would look at his all round play and decide if they are worth a punt or not. Worth considering - but there is no substitute for known quality really.

[jr ewing]

4 minutes ago, Zaba said:

 

Yes I realise who he is 🤪

 

I’m not saying he’s worth nothing - merely pointing out that there’s not a chance in hell it would take £100k to peel him away from Airdrie (above all else, nobody would pay that); nor would we have any intention of handing that kind of coin over for him. 
 

Whoever signs him will do so for ten or twenty grand, and either a player on loan for a season or perhaps, as suggested, a player no longer required like Lewis Moore. 
 

EDIT - have just realised he’s out of contract in the summer as well. £100k 😂😂

Ref. Drew Busby and Drew Jarvie for our older viewers. 

[John Rambo]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

As you say it depends on who is doing it.

When Lewis McLeod signed for Brentford for £850k in December 2015 when Rangers where struggling for cash(aren’t they always) he was injured immediately and played 41 times in 4 years. Mark Warburton was the manager, with David Weir as his Assistant. In February 2016 Brentford’s owner decided to go to this new system and not renew Warburtons contract, he then got the Rangers job and took Weir with him. All above board and just coincidence no doubt 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🙈?!?! 
Look at them now, nearly promoted, semi finals of the cup, new stadium and a good team even after selling their best players.

 The cherry on the cake is being supported by Natalie Sawyer 🥰. 
 

Correct PFK.

 

Look how far Brentford have come in the last 4 years. Look at the players they have signed, made better and sold on at profit and yet they are still competitive and operating at the higher echelons of the Championship.

 

As a Club, Hearts need to be looking at EVERY avenue to improve. Why not ask Brentford for some ideas? Professional help? Or speak to Monchi at Sevilla? McAntony at Peterborough ( similar to Brentford have a knack of picking up gems like Ivan Toney, who they coincidentally sold to Brentford ). Toney will go for huge, Oliie Watkins-like money.

[Batistuta87]

36 minutes ago, Zaba said:

£100k for a boy from Airdrieonians 😂😂😂

 

Why would he not be worth £100k because he plays for Airdrie? He's a very highly rated youngster, already well above Airdrie but he's gone there because he's guaranteed a game, and they pulled off an absolute coup when they signed him. They've been inundated with clubs asking to watch him during Covid. I didn't know he was out of contract at the end of the season but it would take a pretty decent offer like Moore + cash for example, to get him now. If we leave it to end of contract negotiations we'll have no chance with the amount of teams who are tracking him. 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Batistuta87

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, John Rambo said:

Correct PFK.

 

Look how far Brentford have come in the last 4 years. Look at the players they have signed, made better and sold on at profit and yet they are still competitive and operating at the higher echelons of the Championship.

 

As a Club, Hearts need to be looking at EVERY avenue to improve. Why not ask Brentford for some ideas? Professional help? Or speak to Monchi at Sevilla? McAntony at Peterborough ( similar to Brentford have a knack of picking up gems like Ivan Toney, who they coincidentally sold to Brentford ). Toney will go for huge, Oliie Watkins-like money.

Absolutely, we should be using every means necessary to make our club as competitive and up to date as possible. Hopefully Savage will be on top of this and has already looked at these clubs and their systems. 
Toney definitely went to the right club, like McGinn, after Celtic put in a derisory offer for him. 
I think the Brentford manager might have a few options soon too, like Dean Smith before him. They obviously do their homework on managerial choices too. 

[kingantti1874]

17 minutes ago, Zaba said:

 

Yes I realise who he is 🤪

 

I’m not saying he’s worth nothing - merely pointing out that there’s not a chance in hell it would take £100k to peel him away from Airdrie (above all else, nobody would pay that); nor would we have any intention of handing that kind of coin over for him. 
 

Whoever signs him will do so for ten or twenty grand, and either a player on loan for a season or perhaps, as suggested, a player no longer required like Lewis Moore. 
 

EDIT - have just realised he’s out of contract in the summer as well. £100k 😂😂

just have to agree to disagree.. won’t be at all surprised if they get 6 figures.. certainly won’t be far from it 

[Section Q]

4 hours ago, Leveins Battalion said:

For the love of god I hope we stay away from the GMS of this world,we have little enjoyment from has beens.

 

 

Top of my list would be Murray and Turner from Dunfermline,Campbell from Well,Kerr and McCann St Johnstone.Stewart for Ross Count.Time to get younger and hungrier players.

Jason Kerr is a good shout. Young skillful centre half. Would cost a bit though.

[Zaba]

13 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Why would he not be worth £100k because he plays for Airdrie? He's a very highly rated youngster, already well above Airdrie but he's gone there because he's guaranteed a game, and they pulled off an absolute coup when they signed him. They've been inundated with clubs asking to watch him during Covid. I didn't know he was out of contract at the end of the season but it would take a pretty decent offer like Moore + cash for example, to get him now. If we leave it to end of contract negotiations we'll have no chance with the amount of teams who are tracking him. 

 

He wouldn’t be worth £100k because the value of any player is relative to a) the club they play for and b) the level they play at.

 

Nobody playing for Airdrie will be worth £100k while they’re at the level they are currently at, and particularly not during the current climate. 

[Zaba]

11 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

just have to agree to disagree.. won’t be at all surprised if they get 6 figures.. certainly won’t be far from it 

If they get six figures for the boy, fair play to them - that will have been some great negotiating.

 

I’m certain they won’t though.

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

Started in American baseball but ultimately failed. But you never know. 

 

It definitely did not fail. Changed the way that decision makers thought about team-building, to the point where every team in baseball ended up using the same approach. The main tenets of the idea were to gain an understanding of the qualities of a team most affect winning, and then using this principle to find value in players that other teams would miss. Aspects of the moneyball approach have been used in other sports and have also been very successful (Moreyball in basketball, Brentford and Midtjylland as mentioned). 

[john thomas]

4 hours ago, OTT said:

 

10 goals in 25 this season. Boyce would remain the first choice. At a club with our financial constraints, you don't get two Boyces but you can sign someone who'll push him all the way for game time and be a reliable alternative unlike others. 

 

 

Fairly certain its club policy not to pay signing on fees. (happy to be corrected on that, but as far as I know thats been the policy since Budge has came in, maybe longer). I think the likes of May, O'Halloran and Findlay are all achievable signings with our resources. Gallacher because he has Scotland caps will probably be on the radar of clubs down south, likewise, Campbells ability to clear to all to see, so we'd probably need to push the boat out to a level Budge wouldn't be comfortable doing. As far as Greg Stewart goes, IMO he's another Halliday, Holt, O'Halloran type i.e has no right to be at Rangers and won't be looking at another move in that sort of money bracket again. (failed at Birmingham lets not forget). Scottish football is about his level. 

 

I think Campbell would be the sort of signing we could flip inside a couple of seasons. Obviously, we'd need to offer wages comparative with the offers he's no doubt already got with Championship sized clubs down south but I reckon we'd make really good money on him. Probably too uncomfortable a risk for the club though as comparative wages with the clubs would likely exceed our wage bracket by a distance. 

No idea if that is the case , club may be right to keep to that policy ?

Will , in some cases , hinder recruitment . Think Shankland , for example , got a pretty generous signing on fee.

Did think your list of wants was a tad unrealistic . Campbell would be top of my list

[5jambo1]

I’m a bit mixed in this window. Part of me thinks we should be saving all the money we have for next season and building a team for the prem. Ie focusing on budgeting for summer window and trying to land players on pre contracts for the prem. Only problem with this is, can we guarantee we will be in the prem next year? You would like to think so! May put some players off without the guarantee and also would we commit to bigger contracts (assuming we are getting good players) not having the guarantee of premiership football? 
 

So that’s where the other part of me is thinking, do we need something else this window to ‘guarantee’ we go up. As said above you would like to think we have enough but would another centre half/winger or a striker seal it? Do we look at just loan deals so a short term fix? 
 

I don’t think we will be able to sign anyone permanently this window who is going to be good enough for us long term in the prem. January is always hard to get people in anyway, never mind trying to get players in who we want to be good enough for challenging with 3/4th in the prem. 
 

if I were Robbie I would try and get a winger in on loan with pace, I think this would make the biggest difference to us. A player with something to prove who needs first team football which benefits both clubs so we won’t need to pay all his wages. I think with Boyce and Naismith we should have enough quality up top esp with wighton as well, should be enough quality for the championship. I also think we have enough at the back for this level so would only bring a centre half or a forward in if it was someone who we need to help us challenge for 3/4th in the prem and was a permanent transfer. In my opinion, I can’t see this happening? I also don’t know what our budgets are but surely we can’t afford to bring three players in on decent wages loan or perm? 
 

We want to have as much money available to sign better quality players for next season. Obviously in an ideal world we would all want more players in but sure we have enough! as others have said, the summer is going to be a big re build with the amount of players out of contract.

[Cruyff]

We've got enough to win the Championship. Probably need to change shape a wee bit, either a 3-5-2 or a

4-1-3-2 as we're going to struggle to find a decent wide player whilst in this league. If we could get a winger and a forward on loan, that would be reasonable business but we have an Academy that we're not using so perhaps we need to give some young lads a go. 

 

I think we're better looking at pre-contracts and other targets for the summer however who can take us to the level we need to be at instead pishing away resources in this league during these times. 

[5jambo1]

12 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

We've got enough to win the Championship. Probably need to change shape a wee bit, either a 3-5-2 or a

4-1-3-2 as we're going to struggle to find a decent wide player whilst in this league. If we could get a winger and a forward on loan, that would be reasonable business but we have an Academy that we're not using so perhaps we need to give some young lads a go. 

 

I think we're better looking at pre-contracts and other targets for the summer however who can take us to the level we need to be at instead pishing away resources in this league during these times. 

yeah agree. We have to find the balance. We obviously need better players and they will need paid accordingly. These players should be the top earners and first team regulars who are going to make a difference to us and help us challenge at the top end of the prem. we don’t want to be brining players in like frear/Roberts as squad/first team players when we should be giving youth a chance. Use the frear/Roberts wages combined on just one better quality winger. And then use the young guys as back up. 
 

suppose it all looks easy and seems

easy when you think about it but there are no guarantees about a lot of signings that they will be successful.
 

Yeah pre contracts on players who know the league and are top performers in the league would be good, quite a few available

[JamboAl]

22 minutes ago, 5jambo1 said:

yeah agree. We have to find the balance. We obviously need better players and they will need paid accordingly. These players should be the top earners and first team regulars who are going to make a difference to us and help us challenge at the top end of the prem. we don’t want to be brining players in like frear/Roberts as squad/first team players when we should be giving youth a chance. Use the frear/Roberts wages combined on just one better quality winger. And then use the young guys as back up. 
 

suppose it all looks easy and seems

easy when you think about it but there are no guarantees about a lot of signings that they will be successful.
 

Yeah pre contracts on players who know the league and are top performers in the league would be good, quite a few available

And there are no guarantees that you will easily get rid of the likes of Frear and Rpberts to free up their wages.

[Cruyff]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

And there are no guarantees that you will easily get rid of the likes of Frear and Rpberts to free up their wages.

Getting rid off Zlamal, Doyle, Berra, White, Cochrane, Lee, Frear, Wighton after their contracts expire in May would free up a fair bit cash like. 

 

Moving on the likes of Brandon, Popescu, Halkett, Damour, Walker, Roberts, Moore, Henderson etc.. Might prove more difficult however. 

[heartsfc_fan]

We need another attacker at least till the end of the season. Jordan Jones on loan from Rangers would suit and recalling Chris Hamilton from his loan will give us extra defensive cover.

Don't see the need spending £100k or whatever on a player at this stage.

[Batistuta87]

58 minutes ago, Zaba said:

He wouldn’t be worth £100k because the value of any player is relative to a) the club they play for and b) the level they play at.

 

Nobody playing for Airdrie will be worth £100k while they’re at the level they are currently at, and particularly not during the current climate. 

Agree to disagree then Pablo; I think a market value of around £100k is probably quite reasonable for someone like him, regardless of where he's currently playing... 

 

[TexasAndy]

1 hour ago, 5jambo1 said:

I’m a bit mixed in this window. Part of me thinks we should be saving all the money we have for next season and building a team for the prem. Ie focusing on budgeting for summer window and trying to land players on pre contracts for the prem. Only problem with this is, can we guarantee we will be in the prem next year? You would like to think so! May put some players off without the guarantee and also would we commit to bigger contracts (assuming we are getting good players) not having the guarantee of premiership football? 
 

So that’s where the other part of me is thinking, do we need something else this window to ‘guarantee’ we go up. As said above you would like to think we have enough but would another centre half/winger or a striker seal it? Do we look at just loan deals so a short term fix? 
 

I don’t think we will be able to sign anyone permanently this window who is going to be good enough for us long term in the prem. January is always hard to get people in anyway, never mind trying to get players in who we want to be good enough for challenging with 3/4th in the prem. 
 

if I were Robbie I would try and get a winger in on loan with pace, I think this would make the biggest difference to us. A player with something to prove who needs first team football which benefits both clubs so we won’t need to pay all his wages. I think with Boyce and Naismith we should have enough quality up top esp with wighton as well, should be enough quality for the championship. I also think we have enough at the back for this level so would only bring a centre half or a forward in if it was someone who we need to help us challenge for 3/4th in the prem and was a permanent transfer. In my opinion, I can’t see this happening? I also don’t know what our budgets are but surely we can’t afford to bring three players in on decent wages loan or perm? 
 

We want to have as much money available to sign better quality players for next season. Obviously in an ideal world we would all want more players in but sure we have enough! as others have said, the summer is going to be a big re build with the amount of players out of contract.

Fair points.  The Dundee game was a timely reminder that this league still needs to be won and if we are not on it we will have more nights like Friday.  I would want 1 or 2 players in to extend our edge over the other clubs.  Loans may be the option unless we can identify players now that would do a job in SPL also.

[pointon]

Whom ever we sign it has to be an improvement on what we have no more squad fillers

[Batistuta87]

1 minute ago, heartsfc_fan said:

We need another attacker at least till the end of the season. Jordan Jones on loan from Rangers would suit and recalling Chris Hamilton from his loan will give us extra defensive cover.

Don't see the need spending £100k or whatever on a player at this stage.

 

Hamilton has been deemed too wee to play centre back so was being re-trained as either a defensive midfielder or a full back, can't remember which, but his loan with Dumbarton ended on 3rd Jan so he's back now along with Harry Stone (Keeper), Connor Smith (Attacking mid / Forward) and Jay Sandison (Full back). I read something from Robbie last week I think, saying their progress would be assessed before deciding whether or not they would go back out on loan. 

 

[Tommy Brown]

1 hour ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Why would he not be worth £100k because he plays for Airdrie? He's a very highly rated youngster, already well above Airdrie but he's gone there because he's guaranteed a game, and they pulled off an absolute coup when they signed him. They've been inundated with clubs asking to watch him during Covid. I didn't know he was out of contract at the end of the season but it would take a pretty decent offer like Moore + cash for example, to get him now. If we leave it to end of contract negotiations we'll have no chance with the amount of teams who are tracking him. 

 

i doubt we would be shelling out for him. But to back your arguement.

 

Andy Webster - He began his career with Arbroath in the Scottish Second Division before moving to Heart of Midlothian for £75,000 in 2001.

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Batistuta87 said:

 

Hamilton has been deemed too wee to play centre back so was being re-trained as either a defensive midfielder or a full back, can't remember which, but his loan with Dumbarton ended on 3rd Jan so he's back now along with Harry Stone (Keeper), Connor Smith (Attacking mid / Forward) and Jay Sandison (Full back). I read something from Robbie last week I think, saying their progress would be assessed before deciding whether or not they would go back out on loan. 

 

Defensive midfielder, he was played in pre season at CH and was an unmitigated disaster as we said he would be. 

[Bozi]

2 hours ago, John Rambo said:

Maybe we need to change the people at the top? Change the culture as I suggested, the thinking. Change what we want to achieve and how we go about it. I just want us to get out of this cycle of how we attract, coach and retain players or otherwise.

 

Yeah not going to get any arguements from me on that, I was calling for Stendel before the Hampden semifinal against Rangers.

I was delighted when we got him and thought that kind of dynamic pressing football was the way forwards.

I am sick to the back teeth of safety first, hard to beat, uninspiring stuff and that needs a change from the too.

 

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Mulraney ended up making us some money miraculously enough that helped us sign Boyce, but as you say it’s only part of it. As it’s been said above it depends on who is doing the home work on signings. 

How we got money for him is one great mystery, though we clearly replaced him with Roberts who is even less effective.

 

1 hour ago, Berra than you said:

To be fair I think that is part of the stats approach taken by these clubs. For example you can afford an Olly Lee type if you have mobile players around him. They don't just look at those simple stats they would look at his all round play and decide if they are worth a punt or not. Worth considering - but there is no substitute for known quality really.

Agree Olly Lee isn't the main problem but systematic of the type of players we recruit, with legs around him.and more dynamic players he could be great but he gets bogged down with the rest of the dirge in midfield because we go for "neat and tidy" rather than "risk and reward" type players 

[GavK1012]

28 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Snodgrass going to West Brom on loan, can’t believe we’ve missed out on that  😆😂. 

 

Yip, we were prob only short of 60-70k a week to sort something out...according to some Mr Mittys on here, a target we should have looked at...

 

🥸🤯🤓

 

Others playing too much Champ Man over Festive period, 100k plus Lewis Moore to get Robert... 🤪

 

I asked how many times have Hearts over last 10-20 years funded deals like this, and nobody had an answer...and thats because those sort of deals died off in the mid 90's when the clubs had more power...

 

Why on earth would Lewis Moore contemplate ripping up a cooshty contract at Hearts early to go effectively part time or similar at Airdrie 😂🤣😅 

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

It definitely did not fail. Changed the way that decision makers thought about team-building, to the point where every team in baseball ended up using the same approach. The main tenets of the idea were to gain an understanding of the qualities of a team most affect winning, and then using this principle to find value in players that other teams would miss. Aspects of the moneyball approach have been used in other sports and have also been very successful (Moreyball in basketball, Brentford and Midtjylland as mentioned). 

Watched the movie. Recommended. 

[jr ewing]

33 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

For how many games though?

Not having a go at you bud but he barely kicked a ball for us and hasn’t really done anything since which tells me he’d be a big plus. Last thing we need is someone else who’ll spend more time in the treatment room than on the pitch.

Like Ginelly is held up as a shining star when he’s hardly played.

Obviously talented and an athlete..

[soonbe110]

13 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Hamilton has been deemed too wee to play centre back so was being re-trained as either a defensive midfielder or a full back, can't remember which, but his loan with Dumbarton ended on 3rd Jan so he's back now along with Harry Stone (Keeper), Connor Smith (Attacking mid / Forward) and Jay Sandison (Full back). I read something from Robbie last week I think, saying their progress would be assessed before deciding whether or not they would go back out on loan. 

 

Think most of them will be back out on loan if anyone wants them. If we lose Bobby this window Stone will probably have to stick around as third keeper. Smith and Sandison  certain to be out on loan, Smith probably to a lower league team this time so he can get a game. Maybe a stint with Hartley could sort him out. Same type of position. 

[wavydavy]

37 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

For how many games though?

Not having a go at you bud but he barely kicked a ball for us and hasn’t really done anything since which tells me he’d be a big plus. Last thing we need is someone else who’ll spend more time in the treatment room than on the pitch.

Like Ginelly is held up as a shining star when he’s hardly played.

 

Any SD and their staff should be looking first and foremost at players stats to see how many games they play throughout a season.

 

We all know that players get injuries and some more than others but usually the warning signs are there to be seen a bit like the ones here for Ginnelly.

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/josh-ginnelly/detaillierteleistungsdaten/spieler/325104

 

I just hope that Savage is going to be a whole lot better at recruitment than we have been in previous times although I did notice that it was him that took Ginnelly to PNE.

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, GavK1012 said:

 

Yip, we were prob only short of 60-70k a week to sort something out...according to some Mr Mittys on here, a target we should have looked at...

 

🥸🤯🤓

 

Others playing too much Champ Man over Festive period, 100k plus Lewis Moore to get Robert... 🤪

 

I asked how many times have Hearts over last 10-20 years funded deals like this, and nobody had an answer...and thats because those sort of deals died off in the mid 90's when the clubs had more power...

 

Why on earth would Lewis Moore contemplate ripping up a cooshty contract at Hearts early to go effectively part time or similar at Airdrie 😂🤣😅 

You make some fair points there 👍🏽

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Oh no not another one CL said no to, surely.

Nah mate just someone who asks repeatedly about how much things cost threw his name in as a possible signing 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🤪?!?!