Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, The Apprentice said: Who gives a ****. Joel Perreira is a rotten goalkeeper. You can say (rightly) what you like about the state of the team last season but it doesn’t take away that fact. He literally dived out the way of a shot straight at him against Killie. His confidence was already shot he was rushed back from injury. Would do we have as our goalkeeper Coach Paul g just an another old pals act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Tazio said: And if you combine it with no ability you get Pereira. Disagree, we ruin players this is quite clear to see the evidence is there 👍. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said: Disagree, we ruin players this is quite clear to see the evidence is there 👍. I agree to a certain extent but I’m not seeing it as part of an agenda I’m continuing to pursue to the point of blindness. Edited March 31, 2021 by Tazio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tazio said: I agree to a certain extent but I’m not seeing it as part of an agenda I’m continuing to pursue to the point of blindness. What agenda 😂 I'm not blind the situation was no different than what Neilson did with Jack Hamilton 😂 just history keeps repeating itself over and over, Neilson and Levein are so alike it's incredible. Joel is 24 year old young goalkeeper, Levein came out and said he was happy with the goalkeepers he had, then decided to bring in Joel 🤔 remember when Neilson said the same about Jack Hamilton when he fecked up gilks. As I said just like his mentor. Edited March 31, 2021 by Bongo 1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Just now, Bongo 1874 said: What agenda 😂 I'm not blind the situation was no different than what Neilson did with Jack Hamilton 😂 just history keeps repeating itself over and over, Neilson and Levein are so alike it's incredible. So if a bad manager can erode a players confidence a good one can build it up and make players better. Why didn’t that happen with Pereira when Stendel took over? Or his short lived sidekick, who was a goalkeeping coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: No confidence is a big thing in football. When you combine it with no ability it’s a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately by the time DS finally got round to realising this it was too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Just now, Tazio said: So if a bad manager can erode a players confidence a good one can build it up and make players better. Why didn’t that happen with Pereira when Stendel took over? Or his short lived sidekick, who was a goalkeeping coach? Because the Rot had already set in 😂 Stendel improved clare, Moore, Henderson, Bozanic, he doesn't have a magic wand, this was on top of not being able to secure his number 1 signing targets hence why he signed Langer and Donis on a 6 month deal. Levein had spunked the budget on crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Stendel was a good coach. Should have kept him and punted the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berra than you Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: What agenda 😂 I'm not blind the situation was no different than what Neilson did with Jack Hamilton 😂 just history keeps repeating itself over and over, Neilson and Levein are so alike it's incredible. Joel is 24 year old young goalkeeper, Levein came out and said he was happy with the goalkeepers he had, then decided to bring in Joel 🤔 remember when Neilson said the same about Jack Hamilton when he fecked up gilks. As I said just like his mentor. To be fair to Jack Hamilton and Neilson to an extent, he actually looked okay at the beginning of that season, it was when cathro came in and changed the defence that he looked shakier. Despite our defence being poor last season, Joel is still an truly awful goalkeeper. Shots literally went through him. You defending him and stendel even now is bizzare. I will had that I liked stendel and would have liked him to have more time. But we need to move on. Edited March 31, 2021 by Berra than you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said: Because the Rot had already set in 😂 Stendel improved clare, Moore, Henderson, Bozanic, he doesn't have a magic wand, this was on top of not being able to secure his number 1 signing targets hence why he signed Langer and Donis on a 6 month deal. Levein had spunked the budget on crap. Langer 😂 Playing for the German equivalent of Brora these days. Donis.....just a horrible horrible signing. He’s last seasons Kastaneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 **** me, read it all now. How any Hearts fan can stick up for Joel after watching him give away goals against Kilmarnock that would have hit him if he'd stood still, against St Johnstone with a shot that barely rolled over the line, and so many others that a child would have saved. The worst keeper I have seen in 50 years, continually picked by a manager who was obsessed in playing a press that simply fell apart whenever team punted the ball 50 yards up middle of pitch. Joel was shite, Stendel was shite. If either had been mediocre, we would not have been demoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, Berra than you said: To be fair to Jack Hamilton and Neilson to an extent, he actually looked okay at the beginning of that season, it was when cathro came in and changed the defence that he looked shakier. Despite our defence being poor last season, Joel is still an truly awful goalkeeper. Shots literally went through him. You defending him and stendel even now is bizzare. I will had that I liked stendel and would have liked him to have more time. But we need to move on. Mate people were calling Jack Hamilton on here flapjack he got hounded on here at the time. And yeah I will back Stendel and Pereria Stendel had 4 months to change a shit storm, Neilson declared Jack Hamilton number 1 because gilks told us to bolt and went to rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_blood Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Because the Rot had already set in 😂 Stendel improved clare, Moore, Henderson, Bozanic, he doesn't have a magic wand, this was on top of not being able to secure his number 1 signing targets hence why he signed Langer and Donis on a 6 month deal. Levein had spunked the budget on crap. He didn't improve Henderson, Moore or Bozanic. He gave them more game time, that's all. Those players are part of a long list of reasons we're in the division we find ourselves currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gorgie Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Pereira was/still is utter horse shit and it's not even up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DH1986 said: Langer 😂 Playing for the German equivalent of Brora these days. Donis.....just a horrible horrible signing. He’s last seasons Kastaneer. Yep 3rd choice singings unfortunately as the budget had been blown. Edited March 31, 2021 by Bongo 1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, fast_blood said: He didn't improve Henderson, Moore or Bozanic. He gave them more game time, that's all. Those players are part of a long list of reasons we're in the division we find ourselves currently. Aye he didn't improve them 🤔. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said: Yep 3rd choice singings unfortunately as the budget had been blown. So why sign anyone if you don’t have the money for quality? An arrogance towards Scottish football thinking an absolute diddy from Germany could play for a Scottish top league team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Yep 3rd choice singings unfortunately as the budget had been blown. You need to take your tongue out his hoop........you’ve used every excuse under the sun to try and absolve him of any blame. Its quite creepy tbh. Anyway.....we would have been better not signing either of these guys and getting in one half decent player. He didn’t manage his time here very well and we all paid the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tazio said: So why sign anyone if you don’t have the money for quality? An arrogance towards Scottish football thinking an absolute diddy from Germany could play for a Scottish top league team. And tell me what has the quality that Neilson signed so far done?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Just now, Bongo 1874 said: And tell me what has the quality that Neilson signed so far done?. That wasn’t the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, DH1986 said: You need to take your tongue out his hoop........you’ve used every excuse under the sun to try and absolve him of any blame. Its quite creepy tbh. Anyway.....we would have been better not signing either of these guys and getting in one half decent player. He didn’t manage his time here very well and we all paid the price. Nah the guy had his hands tied behind his back its you that need to take your head out your hoop mate. Can only piss with the cock you have got. And when stendel came in the budget had been blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Tazio said: That wasn’t the point I was making. Its true though if Stendel didn't sign players people would say aww he ain't changing it wtf 😂 guy can't win. Open your eyes Berra high earner Damour high earner Whelan was high earner =budget spunked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said: Are we talking about Bobby Zlamal the same bobby that is at fault for us losing our cup final against celtic? Or Colin Doyle the same Colin Doyle that is in a relegation battle with Kilmarnock, and bar Kyle lafferty giving them any sort of hope and belief would be definitely going down. Cmon guys eh 🤔. Bongo man this is stupid. . The 3 goalies were utter pish but JP is the worst goalkeeper I've ever seen . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 How Joel Pereira played a Premier League game for Manchester United will go down as one of life's many mysteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Jeffros Furios said: Bongo man this is stupid. . The 3 goalies were utter pish but JP is the worst goalkeeper I've ever seen . Just my opinion tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamdub Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 I would love to know the the terms of the loan deal with 'popadom hands', I think IMO Man Utd may have stipulated he had to play a certain amount of games and probably one of the reasons Stendel had to play him. Stendel was not even taking a wage when Covid hit us, so when we were illegally demoted, she put in... Neilson GTF !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanza Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 8 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Nah the guy had his hands tied behind his back its you that need to take your head out your hoop mate. Can only piss with the cock you have got. And when stendel came in the budget had been blown. The budget blown but we paid a fee and high wages on Boyce? I accept January is a tough month to bring players in but Stendel was backed. As for Pereira, easily the worst goalkeeper I have ever seen at Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast_blood Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 26 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Aye he didn't improve them 🤔. Thats correct. He didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Costanza said: The budget blown but we paid a fee and high wages on Boyce? I accept January is a tough month to bring players in but Stendel was backed. As for Pereira, easily the worst goalkeeper I have ever seen at Hearts. We loaned out Berra which helped with boyce wages and also got £150k fee for Jake Mulraney with his wage aswell helping. No sale of Mulraney, no Boyce or Sibbick 👍. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanza Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: We loaned out Berra which helped with boyce wages and also got £150k fee for Jake Mulraney with his wage aswell helping. No sale of Mulraney, no Boyce or Sibbick 👍. I had forgotten about that daylight robbery for Mulraney! Sure Inverness got some of that fee and we spent more on Boyce. I still maintain Stendel was backed albeit he was dealt a sh1t hand. The biggest issue was him not being pragmatic and trying to radically change the style mid season. Would have loved for him to have kept us up and had a pre season working on the press but hey ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 We will never know what might have happened. In the last - very shitty - year my go to you tube videos have been our last game at ER. Unbridled passion and joy- something I doubt we will ever see under Neilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 We know what did happen. We lost the must wins and found ourselves without a chair when the music stopped. The misty eyed bollocks about Stendel is precisely that. Bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts1975 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 It was too much of an extreme and Stendel didn’t get the necessary time to implement it It is this simple - Neilson taking over a Levein team - within a matter of weeks the team will be playing the football that Neilson wants as it isn’t much of a jump to play defensive possession based football to go and play, well, possession based defensive football - the players are learning what they have been taught However, Going from Possession based defensive football to playing a high line high press type play takes a long time for players to learn the difference Hence it’s a travesty he only got 3 months from budge and the least amount of time that she gave her other managers. Go figure. Bongo - sorry mate but I agree with the other posters on the goalie piece - Pereira was shit. I was raging when we let DS go but his biggest mistake was playing him - regardless of whether he was injured at the time. He was a nightmare for us but we all know who signed him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 52 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Nah the guy had his hands tied behind his back its you that need to take your head out your hoop mate. Can only piss with the cock you have got. And when stendel came in the budget had been blown. His hands weren’t all that tied.... Firstly he was a one trick pony....you praise him for getting a result v Rangers and Hibs but fail to acknowledge those same tactics did nothing in the games v teams around us. He had the choice of JP or ZZ in goals and played the weaker one....because he was better with the ball at his feet. He wasted two of his 4 signings on complete imposters. To still continue to accept any of these is just weird...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said: It was too much of an extreme and Stendel didn’t get the necessary time to implement it It is this simple - Neilson taking over a Levein team - within a matter of weeks the team will be playing the football that Neilson wants as it isn’t much of a jump to play defensive possession based football to go and play, well, possession based defensive football - the players are learning what they have been taught However, Going from Possession based defensive football to playing a high line high press type play takes a long time for players to learn the difference Hence it’s a travesty he only got 3 months from budge and the least amount of time that she gave her other managers. Go figure. Bongo - sorry mate but I agree with the other posters on the goalie piece - Pereira was shit. I was raging when we let DS go but his biggest mistake was playing him - regardless of whether he was injured at the time. He was a nightmare for us but we all know who signed him It looks like the travesty was that Neilson was the main target, courtesy of Levein of course. Probably the only reason Stendel came in (eventually) was that Robbie wanted to stay and get United promoted. Stendel out, Robbie in would make sense now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, DH1986 said: His hands weren’t all that tied.... Firstly he was a one trick pony....you praise him for getting a result v Rangers and Hibs but fail to acknowledge those same tactics did nothing in the games v teams around us. He had the choice of JP or ZZ in goals and played the weaker one....because he was better with the ball at his feet. He wasted two of his 4 signings on complete imposters. To still continue to accept any of these is just weird...... I suggest you listen to the podcast Craig fowler is a proven liar I'll bump the Davie Irons thread so you can have a look. He doesn't include that Stendel said maybe we needed experience at the time, but It was hard as we couldn't sign the players we wanted did he include that in his wee article that he wrote? Nah trys to destroy Stendel's character which very shortly he may live to regret doing that, fowler posts on here regularly hi Craig 👍 still saying we didn't applaud the celtic team of the park at the final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said: I suggest you listen to the podcast Craig fowler is a proven liar I'll bump the Davie Irons thread so you can have a look. He doesn't include that Stendel said maybe we needed experience at the time, but It was hard as we couldn't sign the players we wanted did he include that in his wee article that he wrote? Nah trys to destroy Stendel's character which very shortly he may live to regret doing that, fowler posts on here regularly hi Craig 👍 still saying we didn't applaud the celtic team of the park at the final. Nah. Ive made my points and you have no comeback on them because you know I’m right. You’re odd obsession with DS continues though....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, DH1986 said: Nah. Ive made my points and you have no comeback on them because you know I’m right. You’re odd obsession with DS continues though....... If that's what you think then fairplay weren't you one of them calling fowler all the names under the sun, funny how he wrote this article and its alright something to suit an agenda maybe 🤔. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said: If that's what you think then fairplay weren't you one of them calling fowler all the names under the sun, funny how he wrote this article and its alright something to suit an agenda maybe 🤔. What you slavering about ? I don’t give a shit about Craig Fowler or what’s he’s apparently wrote.....I’m giving you the facts on DS and where he went wrong. He made a mess of his trial so stop swooning over him.....you’re a grown man ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, DH1986 said: What you slavering about ? I don’t give a shit about Craig Fowler or what’s he’s apparently wrote.....I’m giving you the facts on DS and where he went wrong. He made a mess of his trial so stop swooning over him.....you’re a grown man ffs. He wasn't given time, and for some reason you can't understand that we are still in this mess even with Robbie signing what 11-12 players. Given a pre season i would of like to of see what position the club we be in, I seriously doubt we would've been knocked out the cups by alloa and brora just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Just now, Bongo 1874 said: He wasn't given time, and for some reason you can't understand that we are still in this mess even with Robbie signing what 11-12 players. Given a pre season i would of like to of see what position the club we be in, I seriously doubt we would've been knocked out the cups by alloa and brora just my opinion though. He took the job on knowing we didn’t have time....we were in a relegation battle. He made our situation worse. Ive listed the reason why......they cannot be disputed. Not even his wife and kids could argue against the points so it’s best you give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS98 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 When I clicked into the Stendel thread I thought I’d see a familiar face. You know who I’m on about. The guy who is on a one man crusade to convince everyone that Stendel was the messiah, a tactical genius that can do no wrong. It was everyone else’s fault we got relegated etc etc. And that’s fine, one guys obsession with another is his own business. But Joel Pereria wasn’t that bad?? FFS mate have some self respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, DH1986 said: He took the job on knowing we didn’t have time....we were in a relegation battle. He made our situation worse. Ive listed the reason why......they cannot be disputed. Not even his wife and kids could argue against the points so it’s best you give up. Yet sibbick along with Barry ferguson tam mchibs and many other believe it was unfair for a team to be demoted, that's your argument right there you don't have a defence for that no matter how bad you say he is, he wasn't given the opportunity to keep us up that was taken away from him. And even with how bad you make him out to be he's far more exciting than Robbie snoreson will ever be. Hearts legend my arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 This is one of the most mental threads I've ever see. One guy arguing that Joel is a decent keeper and Stendel us the messiah we had and lost. In reality, Joel is the worst keeper I've seen in 50 years, incapable of stopping any shot on target or catching the ball and Stendel had one tactic which failed against 95% of the teams we played. He also played said keeper when a blind man could see what was happening. Seriously, what the ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said: Mate people were calling Jack Hamilton on here flapjack he got hounded on here at the time. And yeah I will back Stendel and Pereria Stendel had 4 months to change a shit storm, Neilson declared Jack Hamilton number 1 because gilks told us to bolt and went to rangers. I don’t actually know (or have read) any , and I mean any Hearts supporter that rates JP even a tiny bit . you are the only one. Fair enough but it’s a bit odd. Stendell gave us a few games that were great. Easter Road was great and I loved it, but the games against the teams in and around us were suicide tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Just now, Bongo 1874 said: Yet sibbick along with Barry ferguson tam mchibs and many other believe it was unfair for a team to be demoted, that's your argument right there you don't have a defence for that no matter how bad you say he is, he wasn't given the opportunity to keep us up that was taken away from him. And even with how bad you make him out to be he's far more exciting than Robbie snoreson will ever be. Hearts legend my arse. He made our position worse.....and he did it because his tactics weren’t working, he refused to drop JP and he wasted whatever budget he had on two horrendous players. These are facts. So stop it with the Stendel love-in nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Just now, 1971fozzy said: I don’t actually know (or have read) any , and I mean any Hearts supporter that rates JP even a tiny bit . you are the only one. Fair enough but it’s a bit odd. Stendell gave us a few games that were great. Easter Road was great and I loved it, but the games against the teams in and around us were suicide tactics Im not saying he's great I just dont judge him like others, Considering he got injured during his time with us. And with Levein as a manager along with daly Paul g is it any wonder players went back the way 😂😂. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Now Paul Gallagher is getting blamed 😂 Teflon Stendel eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, DH1986 said: He made our position worse.....and he did it because his tactics weren’t working, he refused to drop JP and he wasted whatever budget he had on two horrendous players. These are facts. So stop it with the Stendel love-in nonsense. What budget it was 1in 1 out according to budge did you even listen to her press conference. Hands tied behind his back gave up his wage while other charlatans got every last penny they were due. Big respect to the guy he ain't any different to the supporters that donate every month to keep our club running. He understand what it means to supporters what a club means, that's why he gave up his wage nobody is bigger than the club. Try telling Levein and Neilson that though. You seriously need to try harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Just now, Bongo 1874 said: What budget it was 1in 1 out according to budge did you even listen to her press conference. Hands tied behind his back gave up his wage while other charlatans got every last penny they were due. Big respect to the guy he ain't any different to the supporters that donate every month to keep our club running. He understand what it means to supporters what a club means, that's why he gave up his wage nobody is bigger than the club. Try telling Levein and Neilson that though. You seriously need to try harder. Stop slavering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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