Black Lives Matter Protest.

[Justin Z]

11 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

That one about Anne Frank is utter BS - show me where Dutch law ever made transportation and genocide of Jewish people the law...

 

Holland was neutral in WW2 and invaded by the Germans. I seriously doubt their Parliament just turned round and said "what laws would you like us to pass?"

 

Ah yes, because written Dutch law famously overrode the legal authority of the German occupiers, said no one ever.

[OBE]

1 hour ago, Furious Styles said:

More likely a green corner 

 

Yip! Green has shown up opposing the Blues, who are following the Black & White fracas yesterday, what's scheduled for tomorrow, the Purples knocking ten bells out the Yellows?...Comedy ***kin Gold.

Edited June 14, 2020 by OBE

[jake]

44 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Good posting.  Yes we all have our thresholds for what is a " crime" or not.  Usually based on our own moral compass. 

The fundamentals are surely universal.

 

[Spellczech]

4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Ah yes, because written Dutch law famously overrode the legal authority of the German occupiers, said no one ever.

"legal authority of the German occupiers"? What are you talking about? That is like someone going round to your house, beating you up, murdering your family then saying, "meh, my house, my rules"

Edited June 14, 2020 by Spellczech

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

"legal authority of the German occupiers"? What are you talking about?

 

Bruh. There were a bunch of people in power, with weapons, in a place. What they said was the law. They caught you breaking that law--no matter how illegitimate that law was--they killed you.

 

The end. Why in the world would you get semantic about it? Intentionally missing the point isn't laudable. Stop.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Justin Z

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Bruh. There were a bunch of people in power, with weapons, in a place. What they said was the law. They caught you breaking that law--no matter how illegitimate that law was--they killed you.

 

The end. Why in the world would you get semantic about it? Intentionally missing the point isn't laudable. Stop.

 

 

De facto not the same as de jure.

[JudyJudyJudy]

26 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Knife-weilding is not a stereotype of black people that I've ever heard. I'll ask my black friends about that one...

 

Now Glaswegians? That is a stereotype they've had since the razor gangs

Forget it your not getting my point at all. 

[Justin Z]

Just now, Spellczech said:

 

De facto not the same as de jure.

 

Yes, you have successfully stated something true in a completely irrelevant semantic sense as it relates to that meme.

 

De facto the people who hid Anne Frank were breaking the law. "Utter BS"

 

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Forget it your not getting my point at all. 

 

Has to be intentional at this point.

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Forget it your not getting my point at all. 

Indeed. You seem to be saying you have prejudices that I don't...

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yes, you have successfully stated something true in a completely irrelevant semantic sense as it relates to that meme.

 

De facto the people who hid Anne Frank were breaking the law. "Utter BS"

 

 

Has to be intentional at this point.

Its tiresome 

[Spellczech]

Just now, Justin Z said:

 

Yes, you have successfully stated something true in a completely irrelevant semantic sense as it relates to that meme.

 

De facto the people who hid Anne Frank were breaking the law. "Utter BS"

 

 

Has to be intentional at this point.

 

De facto means of the facts; De jure means of the law. 

 

Just because Germans were de facto in charge of occupied Netherlands does not mean that anything they were doing was legal. It really is that simple.

[Justin Z]

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

Mate you are having a whoosh moment. The Meme was wrong. 

[Tazio]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

 

De jure means of the law. 

 

.

 
Or can be applied to soup if your method is phonetic. 

[Francis Albert]

30 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Ah yes, because written Dutch law famously overrode the legal authority of the German occupiers, said no one ever.

"legal authority" of the German occupiers? Really? 

All these examples in support of an argument I basically agree with are incredibly trite.

Political and social progress has ONLY (or even primarily) been driven by riots.

Nazi law in an occupied country is the standard or "moral compass" of law cited? 

And as for the  British Museum … how many of the things exhibited there today would have existed today but for "looting" (or the acquiescence of the looterd). 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Francis Albert

[felix]

13 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Mate you are having a whoosh moment. The Meme was wrong. 

You're right, the Anne Frank meme was clearly BS.

The British Museum looting one however....

[doctor jambo]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not funny

Sheku Bayou

Sheku was not a racist killing.

Powerful, armed and full of drugs, resisting arrest . 
Died during normal restraint , of cause unknown .Attempts to portray every Black Death in custody as racist are detracting from BLM.
Seemingly now any fatality of a black man is racist, because all cops are white, and all whites are racist , and all racists use their jobs to kill black men.

 

[husref musemic]

23 hours ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

Tbh anyone that genuinely thinks British policing is ‘oppressive’ by general standards is delusional. Police in France, Spain, Italy or any other European country happily leather seven shades of shite out of anyone that attempts to assault them. Then there’s the rest of the world where even less of an excuse Is required...

 

 

i lived in Spain for several years and believe me the police are not against any minorities. They will beat you regardless. 

The police in the UK are gentle tree huggers by comparison.

[kila]

2 hours ago, Sharpie said:

But is it racism, one particular segment of our population seem to get in more trouble and feel racially picked on, but could it have something to do with the regularity of police attention being necessary involving them.

I hearken back to my days in Niddrie. If the people I dealt with there had been of a race of different color would our actions and opinions have been racism. We treated a segm,ent of the population with little respect, because our dealings with theft, violence malicious damage were people of that same community, many good people lived there but they were tarnished by the greater preponderance of bad behaviour by fellow residents, so the general attitude became, its Niddrie, they are all the same. Or when  something happened and a suspect was sought, oft times with no evidence the comment would be I bet he is from Niddrie. It because of frequency that he was from Niddrie the bias was seen to be justified. In the thread subject title the word black appears, but is it really because of the color of perpetrators of the subject matter being reported or is it because of the frequency that the perpetrator is in fact black.

 

It comes down to stereotyping.

 

For the white Niddrie neds, you'd have to go beyond just their skin colour to profile them as the community type you mention. Maybe their clothing, a gang tattoo/marking, hair cut etc.

 

The issue for black people is the profiling simply stops at their skin colour, particularly when it comes to law enforcers. Because they are black they are assumed to be all the bad things.

 

[felix]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Sheku was not a racist killing.

Powerful, armed and full of drugs, resisting arrest . 
Died during normal restraint , of cause unknown .Attempts to portray every Black Death in custody as racist are detracting from BLM.
Seemingly now any fatality of a black man is racist, because all cops are white, and all whites are racist , and all racists use their jobs to kill black men.

 

You sure ?

 

[jake]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

What is this 404 shit I seem to find a lot these days 😆

404 gateway error 

Dunno .

 

It basically said economic inequality was what drove crime

Now theres no argument that black Americans commit disproportionately more crime.

So common factors  in a typical white working class area in England with high crime rates etc and the Black equivalent what would they be?

If as you rightly say it's not skin colour what are the common factors?

 

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

32 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Sheku was not a racist killing.

Powerful, armed and full of drugs, resisting arrest . 
Died during normal restraint , of cause unknown .Attempts to portray every Black Death in custody as racist are detracting from BLM.
Seemingly now any fatality of a black man is racist, because all cops are white, and all whites are racist , and all racists use their jobs to kill black men.

 

Case still open, you know best though. Wasn’t armed.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[The White Cockade]

No easy answers

Yes the rioting and violence and looting is wrong and doesn't help the case

but the "Land of the Free" is a figment of white racist imagination

Freedom for some at the expense of others is not true freedom

Centuries of racism and discrimination cannot easily be forgotten by those whom have suffered it

and  cannot be fully appreciated by the descendants of those who perpetrated it

but however much we want things to be resolved it won't be sweetness and light any time soon

[Ibrahim Tall]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Case still open, you know best though. Wasn’t armed.

 

 

Bayoh had visited a friend to watch a boxing match. There, he had taken the drugs MDMA and flakka, which might explain his behaviour, which his family say was uncharacteristically erratic. He later left his home and neighbours called the police, with eye-witnesses saying he had a knife. His family do not dispute this, but state that by the time police arrived he had discarded it and was unarmed. 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/16/sheku-bayoh-brother-shouldnt-have-died-like-this-inquiry-family

 

 

Drugged up, behaving “erratically” and seen with a knife, let’s not pretend this was a simple traffic stop or a case of mistaken identity. No one ‘deserves’ to die and he shouldn’t have but it was a situation entirely engineered by Bayohs actions - I.e. taking drugs and walking the streets with a blade. It’s not a case that should be lumped in with George Floyd etc.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Ibrahim Tall

[Spellczech]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Case still open, you know best though.

 

 

 

Oh the irony, do you remember 2 days ago telling me that the George Floyd killing, also still sub judice, was "definitely a racist killing"?

 

...despite failing to provide any substantive proof at all and no race element being in the charge...

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, jake said:

404 gateway error 

Dunno .

 

It basically said economic inequality was what drove crime

Now theres no argument that black Americans commit disproportionately more crime.

So common factors  in a typical white working class area in England with high crime rates etc and the Black equivalent what would they be?

If as you rightly say it's not skin colour what are the common factors?

 

 

 

 

That’s the normal page you get when there something wrong with the link 😃, happens a lot.

I think being poor is the common thread, but also in the worlds murder capitals like the US being black also means you’re more likely to be killed. Obviously that links in with being poor and more likely to commit crimes. The point I’m trying to make is white criminals also get more lenient treatment, as the guy who was taken food from Burger King after killing nine black people in a church. Or those armed protestors who stormed government buildings, can you imagine it being blacks and no arrests were made?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/18/lockdown-protests-spread-coronavirus-cellphone-data

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

Bayoh had visited a friend to watch a boxing match. There, he had taken the drugs MDMA and flakka, which might explain his behaviour, which his family say was uncharacteristically erratic. He later left his home and neighbours called the police, with eye-witnesses saying he had a knife. His family do not dispute this, but state that by the time police arrived he had discarded it and was unarmed. 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/16/sheku-bayoh-brother-shouldnt-have-died-like-this-inquiry-family

 

 

Drugged up, behaving “erratically” and seen with a knife, let’s not pretend this was a simple traffic stop or a case of mistaken identity. No one ‘deserves’ to die and he shouldn’t have but it was a situation entirely engineered by Bayohs actions - I.e. taking drugs and walking the streets with a blade. It’s not a case that should be lumped in with George Floyd etc.

 

 

Floyd passed a fake note, thats why the police were there, both cases are similar. He didn’t have the knife when the police arrived is the point, and they found i after. He took drugs watching boxing then went into the streets, didn’t actually bother anyone. Have you been near a venue after drugged up nutters even higher on adrenaline rampage around looking for trouble, or possibly after a football match, or the protests yesterday and today in Glasgow? Are any of these folk subdued by the police in this manner? On of the cops weighed 25 stone and another refused to reveal his weight. This article explains the situation well, strange considering the source.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/revealed-full-extent-injuries-suffered-6348506

Edited June 14, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Oh the irony, do you remember 2 days ago telling me that the George Floyd killing, also still sub judice, was "definitely a racist killing"?

 

...despite failing to provide any substantive proof at all and no race element being in the charge...

I said I thought it was and gave you proof to show why I thought that, you chose to believe differently. Why do you think Chauvin acted in this way then? Show me proof?

[Spellczech]

24 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I said I thought it was and gave you proof to show why I thought that, you chose to believe differently. Why do you think Chauvin acted in this way then? Show me proof?

No, you said it definately was, and failed utterly to provide any proof that it was...

 

I think it was an unlawful killing. I only have the video to go by. The charge of second degree murder/homicide (whatever Americans term it) sounds right. If it was personal as the relative of Floyd says then it is first degree, but that might be difficult to prove. If it was racially-motivated, then I don't know if that would move it up to First Degree or if there is a separate charge re aggravation in the US...So far there is nothing to support any racism element.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Spellczech

[Ibrahim Tall]

28 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Floyd passed a fake note, thats why the police were there, both cases are similar. He didn’t have the knife when the police arrived is the point, and they found i after. He took drugs watching boxing then went into the streets, didn’t actually bother anyone. Have you been near a venue after drugged up nutters even higher on adrenaline rampage around looking for trouble, or possibly after a football match, or the protests yesterday and today in Glasgow? Are any of these folk subdued by the police in this manner? On of the cops weighed 25 stone and another refused to reveal his weight. This article explains the situation well, strange considering the source.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/revealed-full-extent-injuries-suffered-6348506

Whether he threw the knife a way or not is irrelevant, from the article you posted even: “

nine uniformed officers attending reports of a man brandishing a knife in the street in Kirkcaldy. 

Sheku did not have a knife when he was approached by officers. One is said to have been found nearby later.”

He was reported to have had a knife(which it was then proven he did via the one found later), the police aren’t going to rock up and politely say “do you have a knife sir?” and the take “no.” as the gospel truth. They’ll subdue and check him in a way that guarantees their own safety above anything, the risk isn’t worth it if the persons lying and they’ve hid it on themselves and someone gets their throat cut by underestimating the situation. 
Its an even bigger situation but if the police are told someone has a suicide vest on, would you expect the police to take ‘no I don’t’ as honest answer or act as If they do and be as cautious as possible?

The incident was seemingly caught on film and if the police ****ed up the actual apprehension through incompetence the video and courts will prove that but that doesn’t escape the fact that the entire situation is down to Bayoh doing drugs and walking the streets with a knife.

If he hadn’t he’d still be alive.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Ibrahim Tall

[Spellczech]

2 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

Whether he threw the knife a way or not is irrelevant, from the article you posted even: “

nine uniformed officers attending reports of a man brandishing a knife in the street in Kirkcaldy. 

Sheku did not have a knife when he was approached by officers. One is said to have been found nearby later.”

He was reported to have had a knife(which it was then proven he did via the one found later), the police aren’t going to rock up and politely say “do you have a knife sir?” and the take “no.” as the gospel truth. They’ll subdue and check him in a way that guarantees their own safety above anything, the risk isn’t worth it if the persons lying and someone gets there throat cut by underestimating the situation. 
Its an even bigger situation but if the police are told someone has a suicide vest on, would you expect the police to take ‘no I don’t’ as honest answer or act as If they do and be as cautious as possible?

The incident was seemingly caught on film and if the police ****ed up the actual apprehension the video and courts will prove that but that doesn’t escape the fact that the entire situation is down to Bayoh doing drugs and walking the streets with a knife.

If he hadn’t he’d still be alive.

All true but it should also be mentioned that if the police did any sort of cover up of procedural errors then they ought to be brought to light and followed up. That is in all our interest including the Police themselves.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

Whether he threw the knife a way or not is irrelevant, from the article you posted even: “

nine uniformed officers attending reports of a man brandishing a knife in the street in Kirkcaldy. 

Sheku did not have a knife when he was approached by officers. One is said to have been found nearby later.”

He was reported to have had a knife(which it was then proven he did via the one found later), the police aren’t going to rock up and politely say “do you have a knife sir?” and the take “no.” as the gospel truth. They’ll subdue and check him in a way that guarantees their own safety above anything, the risk isn’t worth it if the persons lying and they’ve hid it on themselves and someone gets their throat cut by underestimating the situation. 
Its an even bigger situation but if the police are told someone has a suicide vest on, would you expect the police to take ‘no I don’t’ as honest answer or act as If they do and be as cautious as possible?

The incident was seemingly caught on film and if the police ****ed up the actual apprehension through incompetence the video and courts will prove that but that doesn’t escape the fact that the entire situation is down to Bayoh doing drugs and walking the streets with a knife.

If he hadn’t he’d still be alive.

I posted a link with a video up there, it was 11 officers as there were two plain clothes too. Was the amount of force used required to subdue an unarmed man?  Do that many officers appear when anyone else is said to have a knife? As in Atlanta yesterday if it takes that many of you, and you’re 25 stone and another one clearly not wanting to reveal his girth, should you be doing the job. His injuries clearly show too much Force was used, but because he was on drugs and a big black guy it’s ok? Case still open isn’t it?

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

No, you said it definately was, and failed utterly to provide any proof that it was...

 

I think it was an unlawful killing. I only have the video to go by. The charge of second degree murder/homicide (whatever Americans term it) sounds right. If it was personal as the relative of Floyd says then it is first degree, but that might be difficult to prove. If it was racially-motivated, then I don't know if that would move it up to First Degree or if there is a separate charge re aggravation in the US...So far there is nothing to support any racism element.

In your eyes, I said it was a racist killing in mine.

It will be hard to prove unless he admits it.

[Ibrahim Tall]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I posted a link with a video up there, it was 11 officers as there were two plain clothes too. Was the amount of force used required to subdue an unarmed man?  Do that many officers appear when anyone else is said to have a knife? As in Atlanta yesterday if it takes that many of you, and you’re 25 stone and another one clearly not wanting to reveal his girth, should you be doing the job. His injuries clearly show too much Force was used, but because he was on drugs and a big black guy it’s ok? Case still open isn’t it?

That’s your words, not mine.

 

Again you’ve missed the point on ‘unarmed’ he was only proven to be unarmed one detained, until that point any sane person would proceed under the assumption he was armed with a knife until proven otherwise as he’d been reported to have one. The ‘11 officers /isn’t that enough’ analogy is silly. People aren’t disposable, you wouldn’t proceed with the thought of ‘oh we’ve got 11, if one gets stabbed it’s fine we’ve got 10 more here’. 
 

If the police are genuinely at fault for his death and it isn’t an unfortunate accident they should get ****ed for it, that doesn’t cover up the fact Bayoh created the situation with his original actions though. Walking around with a knife on drugs isn’t comparable with spending a dodgy banknote in corner shop, even trying to tack that onto the Floyd case massively belittles the overreaction of the US police in that situation.

 

[Ibrahim Tall]

15 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

All true but it should also be mentioned that if the police did any sort of cover up of procedural errors then they ought to be brought to light and followed up. That is in all our interest including the Police themselves.

Correct, I agree completely.

[Spellczech]

14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

In your eyes, I said it was a racist killing in mine.

It will be hard to prove unless he admits it.

I seriously hope you are never asked to serve on a jury. Your prejudices will defeat justice...

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

That’s your words, not mine.

 

Again you’ve missed the point on ‘unarmed’ he was only proven to be unarmed one detained, until that point any sane person would proceed under the assumption he was armed with a knife until proven otherwise as he’d been reported to have one. The ‘11 officers /isn’t that enough’ analogy is silly. People aren’t disposable, you wouldn’t proceed with the thought of ‘oh we’ve got 11, if one gets stabbed it’s fine we’ve got 10 more here’. 
 

If the police are genuinely at fault for his death and it isn’t an unfortunate accident they should get ****ed for it, that doesn’t cover up the fact Bayoh created the situation with his original actions though. Walking around with a knife on drugs isn’t comparable with spending a dodgy banknote in corner shop, even trying to tack that onto the Floyd case massively belittles the overreaction of the US police in that situation.

 

Yeah you missed the point, I didn’t mean anyone is expendable i meant 11 police officers to arrest one guy is totally over the top. 
Many others have compared the two incidents. 
Sheku Bayoh did indeed bring himself to the attention of police, what happened afterwards still hasn’t been decided either way, I know what I believe though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34529611

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I seriously hope you are never asked to serve on a jury. Your prejudices will defeat justice...

Yeah and your belief that you know better than everyone else would serve you well.

[doctor jambo]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I posted a link with a video up there, it was 11 officers as there were two plain clothes too. Was the amount of force used required to subdue an unarmed man?  Do that many officers appear when anyone else is said to have a knife? As in Atlanta yesterday if it takes that many of you, and you’re 25 stone and another one clearly not wanting to reveal his girth, should you be doing the job. His injuries clearly show too much Force was used, but because he was on drugs and a big black guy it’s ok? Case still open isn’t it?

You ever seen someone on drugs resisting arrest?

Sometimes they need tasered several times, then pinned down while they bite, spit, kick and punch.

Too much force? Debatable .

depends what he himself was doing.

You fight with officers and you will get injured.

His injuries are at restraint points, and face could be him struggling whilst restrained ( from face on pavement)

His bad luck that the duty inspector  summoned 11 pure racist officers to go and risk their reputations and jobs by killing a suspect because he was black .

Beat him to death none the less . In daylight in public . 
because he was black .

thats your assertion 

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah you missed the point, I didn’t mean anyone is expendable i meant 11 police officers to arrest one guy is totally over the top. 
Many others have compared the two incidents. 
Sheku Bayoh did indeed bring himself to the attention of police, what happened afterwards still hasn’t been decided either way, I know what I believe though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34529611

Many officers now are small and female, so yes , more are needed to tackle someone large, on drugs, reported to have a knife

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

Many officers now are small and female, so yes , more are needed to tackle someone large, on drugs, reported to have a knife

I think this, 5 or 6 police will subdue and overpower a suspected dangerous suspect quicker with ledd likley hood of injury to either side, I'd thought that would be obvious. 

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

I think this, 5 or 6 police will subdue and overpower a suspected dangerous suspect quicker with ledd likley hood of injury to either side, I'd thought that would be obvious. 

Indeed, you make the struggle as one sided as you can. Why risk injuring the officers?

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

You ever seen someone on drugs resisting arrest?

Sometimes they need tasered several times, then pinned down while they bite, spit, kick and punch.

Too much force? Debatable .

depends what he himself was doing.

You fight with officers and you will get injured.

His injuries are at restraint points, and face could be him struggling whilst restrained ( from face on pavement)

His bad luck that the duty inspector  summoned 11 pure racist officers to go and risk their reputations and jobs by killing a suspect because he was black .

Beat him to death none the less . In daylight in public . 
because he was black .

thats your assertion 

If you had bothered to read any of the links I posted  one refutes all your claims about his injuries “Doc”. 
The last link I put up has one of the police down as a racist, who knows how many blows and damage even one racist could cause.

Here’s another good one. People of colour twice as likely to die in custody 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I think this, 5 or 6 police will subdue and overpower a suspected dangerous suspect quicker with ledd likley hood of injury to either side, I'd thought that would be obvious. 

Indeed, 11 should be enough to subdue someone and for him to survive. With these batons and tasers It should be easier. I’m not expecting them to be Bruce Lee or Arnie but a major part of their training must surely be to incapacitate a suspect to arrest them. Some level of fitness must surely be part of it too, one of the cops in this case was 25 stone and another wouldn’t reveal his weight. I think one video showed 4 cops handcuffing him and having him under control. 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed, 11 should be enough to subdue someone and for him to survive. With these batons and tasers It should be easier. I’m not expecting them to be Bruce Lee or Arnie but a major part of their training must surely be to incapacitate a suspect to arrest them. Some level of fitness must surely be part of it too, one of the cops in this case was 25 stone and another wouldn’t reveal his weight. I think one video showed 4 cops handcuffing him and having him under control. 

I don't disagree with any of that, but I've not seen the videos.

[Ibrahim Tall]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

If you had bothered to read any of the links I posted  one refutes all your claims about his injuries “Doc”. 
The last link I put up has one of the police down as a racist, who knows how many blows and damage even one racist could cause.

Here’s another good one. People of colour twice as likely to die in custody 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363

163 deaths in 10 years
 

140 white

10 black 

10 other

Yes, 8% is bigger than 3% but when you’re using figures as minuscule as 10 in 10 years even +1 or -1 makes a big difference to the %. It’s not a reliable data set.  It’s also not stating all deaths were ‘deliberate’ or the police were even fault as it includes general deaths in custody. I.e if someone has a heart attack in their cell it counts, if someone kills themselves it counts etc..

Take the ‘Asian’ statistics for example, 8% of population yet 3% of deaths - are UK police anti-Black/white and pro Asian? 
It’s a silly filter do the data used to appeal to the situation in the US, a more accurate filter for the UK would be on their economic background.

 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I don't disagree with any of that, but I've not seen the videos.

It’s up there somewhere 👆

[Sharpie]

I again have to refer to my own experience from many years ago, but it may b ea surprise to hear, but there are occasions when on duty policepersons become like normal people and there looky lou instinct happens, as a result you get an exaggerated police presence resulting from officers who really should not be there, their furthest intention is to participate in any way. Usually they will just wander away, but sometimes a supervisor will appear and politely ask them to leave, generally with some profane advice where they should leave to.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

163 deaths in 10 years
 

140 white

10 black 

10 other

Yes, 8% is bigger than 3% but when you’re using figures as minuscule as 10 in 10 years even +1 or -1 makes a big difference to the %. It’s not a reliable data set.  It’s also not stating all deaths were ‘deliberate’ or the police were even fault as it includes general deaths in custody. I.e if someone has a heart attack in their cell it counts, if someone kills themselves it counts etc..

Take the ‘Asian’ statistics for example, 8% of population yet 3% of deaths - are UK police anti-Black/white and pro Asian? 
It’s a silly filter do the data used to appeal to the situation in the US, a more accurate filter for the UK would be on their economic background.

 

Why highlight the 10 years, is that somehow ok that on average 16.3 people die every year in police custody? I didn’t make up ru study, just showing you the figures. I put the figures up for America the other day, sorry if you haven’t bothered to read them. 

[jake]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s the normal page you get when there something wrong with the link 😃, happens a lot.

I think being poor is the common thread, but also in the worlds murder capitals like the US being black also means you’re more likely to be killed. Obviously that links in with being poor and more likely to commit crimes. The point I’m trying to make is white criminals also get more lenient treatment, as the guy who was taken food from Burger King after killing nine black people in a church. Or those armed protestors who stormed government buildings, can you imagine it being blacks and no arrests were made?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/18/lockdown-protests-spread-coronavirus-cellphone-data

No its not linked to being poor.

Its linked to inequality.

The two things are very  different.