SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Jamboelite]

9 minutes ago, Craig Herbertson said:

Genuine question because my memory is going. Have the SPFL or the SFA set up a working party at any point to discuss  what would be best for Scottish football?

Dumpster is part of the group to get football back up and running apparently.

 

So far the idea seems to be a Hub and **** all else.

[Drumelzier]

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

 More chance of that bunch coming to the correct decision !

[Jamboelite]

1 minute ago, martoon said:

 

Just a hunch but I think it has a lot to do with Celtic's potential quadtreble. If Hearts are expelled into the Championship, particularly if it's curtailed and/or mothballed, our further participation in this season's Cup is on the line. Could lead to it being unplayed and that is not what the asterisk bhoys want.

 

A reinstated Hearts guarantees the competition's completion whenever possible.

They dont care that much and if we are a Championship club the game still gets played and we have a weak ass team. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Jamboelite

[Heartsmad1874]

Stenhousemuir chairman on Sportsound basically saying reconstruction will be natural soon as clubs learn that they can’t play and the leagues are then separated as to who can and who can’t.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, martoon said:

 

Just a hunch but I think it has a lot to do with Celtic's potential quadtreble. If Hearts are expelled into the Championship, particularly if it's curtailed and/or mothballed, our further participation in this season's Cup is on the line. Could lead to it being unplayed and that is not what the asterisk bhoys want.

 

A reinstated Hearts guarantees the competition's completion whenever possible.

 

Nope.   Celtic would be happy to celebrate another SC and treble if Hibs got a w/o into the final.    In fact thet would still celebrate if they were given the cup right now.

[Anything2]

The SPFL should really have been more active in establishing how many teams think they can realistically complete a fixture list next season and under what conditions i.e. behind closed doors etc. before any reconstruction proposal was put forward. Say 5 teams want to hibernate for a season, what division do they come back into when it's over? What if pyramid teams up able to fulfil the fixture list, should they be promoted, leapfrogging teams who can't? 

[Jamboelite]

18 minutes ago, Drumelzier said:

 

Is it not just an SPFL board meeting today to discuss the proposal ? That meeting is happening now.

That was my thoughts.

 

No vote today but what i expect is the SPFL discuss it and then depending on whether they are shitting it or not will either endorse it and tell clubs to back it (behind close doors) or they will just pass it onto the clubs for a resolution.

 

Unless the clubs are forced to accept it then its a dead duck of a vote.

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

They dont care that much and if we are a Championship club the game still gets played and we have a weak ass team. 

 

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Nope.   Celtic would be happy to celebrate another SC and treble if Hibs got a w/o into the final.    In fact thet would still celebrate if they were given the cup right now.

 

As I said, just a hunch.

 

There must be a reason for the Provan/Walker revelation and I'm assuming it's not decency.

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Stenhousemuir chairman on Sportsound basically saying reconstruction will be natural soon as clubs learn that they can’t play and the leagues are then separated as to who can and who can’t.

Finally, some commonsense!

[obua]

58 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Yip, but also if in court- we tried our best while others done **** all. 

 

I honestly think this is just a due diligence exercise in prep for court. 

 

 

 

 

I hope your right.

[buzzbomb]

25 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

This is why I think there will be only about 20 clubs max, willing to start next season?  Just for arguements sake,  How can we have a top 12, with 8 clubs made up of the best and last standing forming a second tier?  it will have to be one league of 20, or 2 of 10?  but equates to Dundee Utd not being promoted but St Mirrend and hamilton relegated too?  Plus that is only an assuption that all the top 12 can go on?

 

I can see the vote failing, we go to court, then clubs folding anyway and reconstrcution happening anyway, but with a sprinkling of bitterness, and some will fail even before the court case starts

Let's hope we get awarded £3M, then clubs go to the wall and we get to play anyway. With an extra £3M in our hipper

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, Anything2 said:

The SPFL should really have been more active in establishing how many teams think they can realistically complete a fixture list next season and under what conditions i.e. behind closed doors etc. before any reconstruction proposal was put forward. Say 5 teams want to hibernate for a season, what division do they come back into when it's over? What if pyramid teams up able to fulfil the fixture list, should they be promoted, leapfrogging teams who can't? 

Totally agree.  Absolute madness to have reconstruction talks and proposals before this is established.  More lack of leadership but are we surprised?

[annushorribilis III]

29 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

 

They might find the lost accounts at Ladbrokes, in their overseas offices.

That statement is wrong - the 19/20 season is not "on hold". 

[Gnjambo16]

7 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Finally, some commonsense!

He was very negative about Budge proposal

and even thought he was funny . The whole podcast was very negative and talked little or next to nothing Re the positives . Even Tom English 

[Poseidon]

4 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

That statement is wrong - the 19/20 season is not "on hold". 

It was when they prepared their statement obviously 

[Anything2]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Totally agree.  Absolute madness to have reconstruction talks and proposals before this is established.  More lack of leadership but are we surprised?

It does need to be cleared up as the suspension of administration penalties (15 point deductions etc) could lead teams to imply they are secure to get the season started and pull out later with no penalty. Whereas if they are honest and state they can't complete the season, they have no idea what their fate will be. 

[Ethan Hunt]

4 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

IMO new proposal will fail. they will go through the motions unlike last time, maybe even extending the process to demonstrate they have explored every avenue etc in advance of possible court hearing. 

I am not confident of a successful court outcome. The Partick Thistle QC's opinion didn't seem very convincing to me but I'd love to know the lawyers' private advice on their opinion. 

Someone with long experience of litigation once advised me: 

If a lawyer says you have 90% chance then the odds are probably in your favour. If 70% then its anyone's guess. If 50% then you might just might get lucky. If 30% then he or she is saying "Look I am a lawyer but even I am embarrassed to take money from you for this opinion".

Which is not to say we should not go to court in any event in the hope of bankrupting the SPFL and as many clubs as possible. 

 

In what way was the Particks Thistles junior and senior QC legal opions not very convincing? 

 

I would think Hearts will have sought their own QC advice to satisfy themselves.

 

I’ll take a QC’s legal opinion over a lawyers every day

 

 

[John Findlay]

26 minutes ago, Craig Herbertson said:

Genuine question because my memory is going. Have the SPFL or the SFA set up a working party at any point to discuss  what would be best for Scottish football?

Craig, I think there is a working party headed up by Leanne Dempster that is putting plans together on how football can resume in Scotland. I think mainly set up by the SPFL with input from the SFA.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Gnjambo16 said:

He was very negative about Budge proposal

and even thought he was funny . The whole podcast was very negative and talked little or next to nothing Re the positives . Even Tom English 

One of the problems of this whole shambles is that non entities like Stenhousemuir get far too much oxygen relative to their place in the game. 

[CJGJ]

If you can't afford to play without fans then you have no right to vote for league reconstruction

 

There should be no hibernation for clubs to get away with it and by doing so impact on clubs who are attempting to play football as soon as is possible taking account of the health issues

 

Our benefactors are willing to pay for Coronavirus testing as well so finance is not an issue

[Jamboelite]

1 minute ago, Anything2 said:

The SPFL should really have been more active in establishing how many teams think they can realistically complete a fixture list next season and under what conditions i.e. behind closed doors etc. before any reconstruction proposal was put forward. Say 5 teams want to hibernate for a season, what division do they come back into when it's over? What if pyramid teams up able to fulfil the fixture list, should they be promoted, leapfrogging teams who can't? 

Perhaps the SPFL will use the paper AB has written to discuss with clubs the likelihood of them being able to play and use it as the starting template.

 

Then take all the credit.

 

What the ****ers should be doing rather than have a member club do it because they got shafted.

 

Prepare for the “good of the game” narrative as opposed to “we ****ed up”.

[Martin_T]

Clyde fans making a bit of noise on Twitter about being unfairly 'relegated'. The premise being that they would be denied matches against Falkirk and Partick.

 

Perhaps the fairest solution is to regionalise the two leagues below the Premiership? North/South, East/West whatever works. Then the clubs get more income longer term from more local derbies, there travel costs are reduced etc. Both leagues could be effectively tier 2 (one league below the top with promotion to the premiership) with the Champions from each being promoted to the Premiership?

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

In what way was the Particks Thistles junior and senior QC legal opions not very convincing? 

 

I would think Hearts will have sought their own QC advice to satisfy themselves.

 

I’ll take a QC’s legal opinion over a lawyers every day

 

 

Ethan Hunt. FA is the pessimists pessimist 🤣

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Clyde fans making a bit of noise on Twitter about being unfairly 'relegated'. The premise being that they would be denied matches against Falkirk and Partick.

 

Perhaps the fairest solution is to regionalise the two leagues below the Premiership? North/South, East/West whatever works. Then the clubs get more income longer term from more local derbies, there travel costs are reduced etc. Both leagues could be effectively tier 2 (one league below the top with promotion to the premiership) with the Champions from each being promoted to the Premiership?

The amount of clubs basing their opinion/decision on which away fans they might get is pathetic. Go get some fans of your own or just pack your shitey club in. 
 

i think regional leagues are a good idea. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Clyde fans making a bit of noise on Twitter about being unfairly 'relegated'. The premise being that they would be denied matches against Falkirk and Partick.

 

Perhaps the fairest solution is to regionalise the two leagues below the Premiership? North/South, East/West whatever works. Then the clubs get more income longer term from more local derbies, there travel costs are reduced etc. Both leagues could be effectively tier 2 (one league below the top with promotion to the premiership) with the Champions from each being promoted to the Premiership?

Clyde have fans?

[Martin_T]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Clyde have fans?

 

Indignant fans no less.

[David McCaig]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Clyde have fans?

Their main requirement seems to be other teams fans.

[annushorribilis III]

9 minutes ago, Poseidon said:

It was when they prepared their statement obviously 

👍

 

My point wasn't just it was out of date but that there is no mention of the current state of the business ie they are staring into the abyss. "Going concern" issue ? 

[Anything2]

1 minute ago, Jamboelite said:

Perhaps the SPFL will use the paper AB has written to discuss with clubs the likelihood of them being able to play and use it as the starting template.

 

Then take all the credit.

 

What the ****ers should be doing rather than have a member club do it because they got shafted.

 

Prepare for the “good of the game” narrative as opposed to “we ****ed up”.

They probably will and sometimes it is good to have a strawman proposal to focus everyone on the issues but it feels like if this proposal was voted through, teams may subsequently withdraw for financial reasons then we have to redraw all the boundaries. And remember we are using the league placings from an incomplete season to determine what teams get promoted, depending on what teams withdraw you could be in a position where teams are separated by a point or goal difference or have a game in hand but one team goes up and the other doesn't. It would just be much clearer if everyone could indicate in advance what the viability of them playing games is. 

[EIEIO]

2 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

Indignant fans no less.

Are they squealing like pigs?

[HoGwash]

53 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Sounds great, but if this is behind closed doors for a while theres no way it will be viable to most of the Championship teams, Queen of the south for example only have 3 contracted players for next season. 

And this is exactly why teams like this should have no significant influence on how proper full time professional clubs organise themselves. 

[Super_Hans]

25 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Stenhousemuir chairman on Sportsound basically saying reconstruction will be natural soon as clubs learn that they can’t play and the leagues are then separated as to who can and who can’t.

Hopefully his mob are in the 'can'ts'

 

[annushorribilis III]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The amount of clubs basing their opinion/decision on which away fans they might get is pathetic. Go get some fans of your own or just pack your shitey club in. 
 

i think regional leagues are a good idea. 

The irony of mentioning Thistle right now. As if Thistle fans give a shit about them after the way they've been treated. 

[Francis Albert]

9 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

In what way was the Particks Thistles junior and senior QC legal opions not very convincing? 

 

I would think Hearts will have sought their own QC advice to satisfy themselves.

 

I’ll take a QC’s legal opinion over a lawyers every day

 

QCs are lawyers. Well paid ones.

[Cisco1914]

1 minute ago, EIEIO said:

Are they squealing like pigs?

EIEIO😄🤙

[Anything2]

8 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Clyde fans making a bit of noise on Twitter about being unfairly 'relegated'. The premise being that they would be denied matches against Falkirk and Partick.

 

Perhaps the fairest solution is to regionalise the two leagues below the Premiership? North/South, East/West whatever works. Then the clubs get more income longer term from more local derbies, there travel costs are reduced etc. Both leagues could be effectively tier 2 (one league below the top with promotion to the premiership) with the Champions from each being promoted to the Premiership?

All they need to do is beat the teams that they feel are beneath them and they will be in the Championship the following season. Unless they actually think that those teams would beat them and the only reason they aren't already in the bottom division is because of the limitations of the promotion system. 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

36 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Look at Lawless and Petrie  just sitting there all smug. Thinking we cant see through their disguise.

We've known for years they were clowns.

[CJGJ]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

QCs are lawyers. Well paid ones.

They are more than Lawyers which you seem to forget

 

It's like comparing a GP with a top specialist consultant surgeon

 

I know who I'd rather operate on me..you of course would it seems be happy with your GP carrying out brain surgery

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, CJGJ said:

They are more than Lawyers which you seem to forget

 

It's like comparing a GP with a top specialist consultant surgeon

 

I know who I'd rather operate on me..you of course would it seems be happy with your GP carrying out brain surgery

GP is a specialism as well!!

[Martin_T]

To expand out my earlier Idea you could have a 14 team premiership, this seasons participants plus Dundee United and ICT. Below that you could have a 14 team Championship West and a 14 Team Championship East:

 

Championship East:

 

Dundee

Arbroath

Dunfermline

Alloa

Raith

Montrose

East Fife

Peterhead

Forfar

Cove

Edinburgh

Elgin

Cowdenbeath

Brechin

 

Championship West

 

Ayr

Morton

Queen of the South

Partick Thistle

Falkirk

Airdrie

Dumbarton

Clyde

Stranraer

Queen's Park

Stirling Albion

Annan Athletic

Stenhousemuir

Albion Rovers

 

Winners from each division gets one of two relegation places in the Premiership or you could potentially have the two champions play off for automatic promotion with the loser facing the 2nd bottom team in the Premiership in another playoff for the 2nd place.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Of more interest is the going concern warning from their auditors

 

The "no current guidance provided" bit is telling.

[The Mighty Thor]

33 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Stenhousemuir chairman on Sportsound basically saying reconstruction will be natural soon as clubs learn that they can’t play and the leagues are then separated as to who can and who can’t.

Like I said earlier cards on the table who can play from August behind closed doors? Right sound, we've got a league. The rest of you? Bye.

[Tokyo Drifter]

37 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Just a hunch but I think it has a lot to do with Celtic's potential quadtreble. If Hearts are expelled into the Championship, particularly if it's curtailed and/or mothballed, our further participation in this season's Cup is on the line. Could lead to it being unplayed and that is not what the asterisk bhoys want.

 

A reinstated Hearts guarantees the competition's completion whenever possible.

They'll play the remaining cup matches regardless of which league we're in.

[annushorribilis III]

5 minutes ago, HoGwash said:

And this is exactly why teams like this should have no significant influence on how proper full time professional clubs organise themselves. 

We might see some sanity breaking out : Top clubs basically telling lower league clubs, vote this through, get your shit in order or you won't even get the TV money. It seems crazy to think member clubs will allow TV money to be paid out to clubs who have no prospect of seeing out the season while allowing them to dictate.  

 

I keep thinking of the law of unintended consequences. 

[WorldChampions1902]

37 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

Dumpster is part of the group to get football back up and running apparently.

 

So far the idea seems to be a Hub and **** all else.

And they only gave her that gig because she’s a big, “Hubs” fan. 

[CJGJ]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

GP is a specialism as well!!

I would have thought the clue is in the name.....General Practitioner

 

 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Tokyo Drifter said:

They'll play the remaining cup matches regardless of which league we're in.

How can they if the championship doesn’t start till January. We can’t be expected to recruit, train and prepare a squad while pulling players out of furlough for potentially 1 game. 

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, CJGJ said:

I would have thought the clue is in the name.....General Practitioner

 

 

https://www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/after-medical-school/specialty-focus-general-practice

[Tokyo Drifter]

Starting to think reconstruction is pointless because only the Premiership sides can afford to play behind closed doors and stump up the £4000 a week required for testing - so whether you have three leagues of 14 or 10 leagues of four and a wee bit (see what I did there?) it's academic. The lower leagues, however you divvy them up, can't afford to play without paying customers and there ain't going to be any of those for the rest of the year.

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

They'll play the remaining cup matches regardless of which league we're in.

If we can’t play until January we won’t be taking part in the cup.. that would undermine the whole competition