SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[MCW1976]

27 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

We might see some sanity breaking out : Top clubs basically telling lower league clubs, vote this through, get your shit in order or you won't even get the TV money. It seems crazy to think member clubs will allow TV money to be paid out to clubs who have no prospect of seeing out the season while allowing them to dictate.  

 

I keep thinking of the law of unintended consequences. 

Yes, it might even come down to the O/F (if they think Ann’s proposal is the best possible solution) giving lower clubs a ‘bit of advice’ on their stance?

[MCW1976]

12 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Are clubs allowed to employ players on an amateur basis? Or they can pay them a nominal sum?

QPFC

[Scnorthedinburgh]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

But surely a Championship club can recruit players on a non-professional basis or pay them a nominal sum to ensure they can put together a First XI each week.

 

Like, QotS could recruit players for £100/wk (they would need to be part-time) but at least it would enable them to keep playing until such time that fans can return.

They could, but once registered to QOS that limits what they can then do.

Works if the player is up for it.

I meant the player can't be at QOS for 3 months, they have no cash so let him go. He goes to Allow for 3 months and they run out of cash. He then couldn't register for another club no matter the deal, think 2 clubs is the limit might be 3.

[redjambo]

49 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Clyde fans making a bit of noise on Twitter about being unfairly 'relegated'. The premise being that they would be denied matches against Falkirk and Partick.

 

Perhaps the fairest solution is to regionalise the two leagues below the Premiership? North/South, East/West whatever works. Then the clubs get more income longer term from more local derbies, there travel costs are reduced etc. Both leagues could be effectively tier 2 (one league below the top with promotion to the premiership) with the Champions from each being promoted to the Premiership?

 

I assume that Brechin would be allowed to enter the regional league of their choice.

[Footballfirst]

3 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

United in trouble too,wouldn't be surprised if St johnstone were to follow soon.

 

2 hours ago, Jamboelite said:

United were losing heavily being in the Championship and had over extended that i do know from people at United.

Dundee and Dundee United have the worst financial positions in terms of net liabilities in the SPFL.

 

Dundee has a net liabilities position of £-2.58m, with United only marginally better at £-2.27m.

 

A significant difference between the clubs is that Dundee doesn't own its stadium, so United's liabilities have more than wiped out the £4.5m asset value of Tannadice.  United lost £3.7m in 2018/19 and the current year is unlikely to be much better as they gambled further cash in order to win promotion.  Such extravagance will ultimately have its consequences. 

[YYZ]

13 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

So basically we are ****ed because nobody else can play

 

Yes.

 

You couldn't make it up. Unfairly relegate us then allow the next season to be dictated by teams who can't field teams thus punishing us again.

 

The people who run our game are ****ing clueless.

 

[Victorian]

This is just about saving Hearts.

 

Aye that's part of it but it's about helping many more.   Besides,   look at all the things we have and can bring to the game.   We're viable,   profitable,   have tens of thousands of supporters,   a big stadium we can offer the use of,   covid ready duplicate changing rooms and other facilities,   testing arrangements we can offer the use of.

 

Nut it's just about saving Hearts.

 

But others cannot afford to operate.   We can.    We're demonstrably viable for years ahead.    Others are in a perilous position.

 

Nut it's just about saving Hearts.

[SpikeDudley]

all these clubs in trouble?
But what happened to the oh so necessary prize money, that could only be distributed once Celtic were awarded a title that they hadn't won?

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, SpikeDudley said:

all these clubs in trouble?
But what happened to the oh so necessary prize money, that could only be distributed once Celtic were awarded a title that they hadn't won?

 

Money disbursed and likely now lost from the game.

 

A viability study might have been handy.

[David McCaig]

21 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Are clubs allowed to employ players on an amateur basis? Or they can pay them a nominal sum?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35950297

[Biffa Bacon]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I assume that Brechin would be allowed to enter the regional league of their choice.

They were due to be in the highland zone, until some robust chat, including veiled threats with lowland league, changed that decision.

[WheatfieldWarrior]

46 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

To expand out my earlier Idea you could have a 14 team premiership, this seasons participants plus Dundee United and ICT. Below that you could have a 14 team Championship West and a 14 Team Championship East:

 

Championship East:

 

Dundee

Arbroath

Dunfermline

Alloa

Raith

Montrose

East Fife

Peterhead

Forfar

Cove

Edinburgh

Elgin

Cowdenbeath

Brechin

 

Championship West

 

Ayr

Morton

Queen of the South

Partick Thistle

Falkirk

Airdrie

Dumbarton

Clyde

Stranraer

Queen's Park

Stirling Albion

Annan Athletic

Stenhousemuir

Albion Rovers

 

Winners from each division gets one of two relegation places in the Premiership or you could potentially have the two champions play off for automatic promotion with the loser facing the 2nd bottom team in the Premiership in another playoff for the 2nd place.

 

Stick Hibs in championship East, but otherwise good.

 

[Biffa Bacon]

32 minutes ago, EarnockJambo said:

All these clubs that wanted the season ended citing the amount of players that would be out of contract past May/June(and indeed, some have already announced that they're left/or will be left with a handful of players)

 

With no income from gate receipts, where are these clubs going to find the money to sign new players to enable them to START the new season?????

 

 

Also any furloughed staff would have to be back on the pay roll as soon as they were asked to work, this includes training for footballers, or sending an email for office staff.

[HMFC01]

49 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

To expand out my earlier Idea you could have a 14 team premiership, this seasons participants plus Dundee United and ICT. Below that you could have a 14 team Championship West and a 14 Team Championship East:

 

Championship East:

 

Dundee

Arbroath

Dunfermline

Alloa

Raith

Montrose

East Fife

Peterhead

Forfar

Cove

Edinburgh

Elgin

Cowdenbeath

Brechin

 

Championship West

 

Ayr

Morton

Queen of the South

Partick Thistle

Falkirk

Airdrie

Dumbarton

Clyde

Stranraer

Queen's Park

Stirling Albion

Annan Athletic

Stenhousemuir

Albion Rovers

 

Winners from each division gets one of two relegation places in the Premiership or you could potentially have the two champions play off for automatic promotion with the loser facing the 2nd bottom team in the Premiership in another playoff for the 2nd place.

That's an interesting proposal you've spun out there, I think it's a good idea.  Well done.  I like the idea.

[1874robbo]

47 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

And they only gave her that gig because she’s a big, “Hubs” fan. 

Rangers fan 

[hmfc_steve]

12 minutes ago, SpikeDudley said:

all these clubs in trouble?
But what happened to the oh so necessary prize money, that could only be distributed once Celtic were awarded a title that they hadn't won?

it was all a carve up right from the beginning

[martoon]

44 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

How can they if the championship doesn’t start till January. We can’t be expected to recruit, train and prepare a squad while pulling players out of furlough for potentially 1 game. 

 

That's exactly what I thought. No way can we be expelled into a mothballed/truncated Championship yet be expected to play 2 Cup ties in the middle of inactivity. 

[Last Laff]

16 minutes ago, SpikeDudley said:

all these clubs in trouble?
But what happened to the oh so necessary prize money, that could only be distributed once Celtic were awarded a title that they hadn't won?

There’s no evidence any clubs are in trouble. 

[Pasquale for King]

53 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

To expand out my earlier Idea you could have a 14 team premiership, this seasons participants plus Dundee United and ICT. Below that you could have a 14 team Championship West and a 14 Team Championship East:

 

Championship East:

 

Dundee

Arbroath

Dunfermline

Alloa

Raith

Montrose

East Fife

Peterhead

Forfar

Cove

Edinburgh

Elgin

Cowdenbeath

Brechin

 

Championship West

 

Ayr

Morton

Queen of the South

Partick Thistle

Falkirk

Airdrie

Dumbarton

Clyde

Stranraer

Queen's Park

Stirling Albion

Annan Athletic

Stenhousemuir

Albion Rovers

 

Winners from each division gets one of two relegation places in the Premiership or you could potentially have the two champions play off for automatic promotion with the loser facing the 2nd bottom team in the Premiership in another playoff for the 2nd place.

It’s a great idea, even if there is a limited crowd going to games travelling will be an issue. Once again someone on here has shown a level of outside the box thinking that the people who run the game lack.

[Ethan Hunt]

5 hours ago, Victorian said:

So it's looking like as I predicted.    It will be scuppered in the lower leagues by clubs who :

 

1.    Cannot afford to play matches next season.

2.    Will most likely be out of business in the future.

 

Essentially we're going to be dragged down by clubs on death row.    On the premise of a fantasy that they'll even be here in a year's time.

 

Legal action probably doesn't faze these ***** because they're virtually extinct anyway.    They have nothing to lose.

Looking like it.

[Debut 4]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s a great idea, even if there is a limited crowd going to games travelling will be an issue. Once again someone on here has shown a level of outside the box thinking that the people who run the game lack.

It’s frightening. The authorities are so much out their depth and completely incompetent. 
 

However, a huge part is they are simply not interested for numerous reasons done to death, but one is not being interested in a bit hard work or using brain cells.(if they have any)

[Pasquale for King]

54 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

Starting to think reconstruction is pointless because only the Premiership sides can afford to play behind closed doors and stump up the £4000 a week required for testing - so whether you have three leagues of 14 or 10 leagues of four and a wee bit (see what I did there?) it's academic. The lower leagues, however you divvy them up, can't afford to play without paying customers and there ain't going to be any of those for the rest of the year.

I think Budge covered that by saying bigger clubs could help out, with their grounds and I would hope we look at loaning players out to the clubs who voted No to relegating us. You could even have a rule where the top teams loan at least two players out, we must’ve had at least a dozen out last season (Cochrane/Macdonald/Lee/Wighton/Smith/Baur/Maclean/Berra/Hamilton off the top of my head).

Edited May 27, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s frightening. The authorities are so much out their depth and completely incompetent. 
 

However, a huge part is they are simply not interested for numerous reasons done to death, but one is not being interested in a bit hard work or using brain cells.(if they have any)

Indeed, keep everything the same as it works for the two most important teams.

[Ethan Hunt]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

QCs are lawyers. Well paid ones.

I am well aware of what a QC is and what level of experience they require to have in dealing with extremely complex cases.  So, as I said, I’d rather have legal opinion from a QC rather than a lawyer.

 

Now, you evaded my question. In what way was the legal opinion of two QC’s, one junior and one senior, not very convincing?  

[Siphiwe Tshabalala]

Hamilton about to go bust?

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s frightening. The authorities are so much out their depth and completely incompetent. 
 

However, a huge part is they are simply not interested for numerous reasons done to death, but one is not being interested in a bit hard work or using brain cells.(if they have any)

 Debatable which is more out of depth on the Coronavirus emergency ... SPFL authorities or the UK government.

[Pasquale for King]

48 minutes ago, EarnockJambo said:

All these clubs that wanted the season ended citing the amount of players that would be out of contract past May/June(and indeed, some have already announced that they're left/or will be left with a handful of players)

 

With no income from gate receipts, where are these clubs going to find the money to sign new players to enable them to START the new season?????

 

 

The thing I about argued with a few folk on twitter was that it’s the same every summer, if they have the usual ST money then what’s changed? The loss of 4/5 home games might’ve meant other income was used to pay players.

[Newton51]

Are we expecting an update today?

[Walter Bishop]

David Tanner

 

@DavidTannerTV

 

Just spoken to an #SPFL Championship chairman - and it’s a big for Ann Budge’s latest #SPFL reconstruction proposal. 6 teams relegated from the second tier after two years - what could possibly go wrong?! More on

@talkSPORT

now!

[Stuart Lyon]

A big Yes our a big No

[Jeff]

Should just keep it 14-14-14.

 

Screw changing it back after a season or 2

 

How many pointless top 6 and bottom 6 fixtures are there? Playoffs makes it interesting.

 

Do that for all 3 leagues and you have interest

Edited May 27, 2020 by Jeff

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

David Tanner

 

@DavidTannerTV

 

Just spoken to an #SPFL Championship chairman - and it’s a big for Ann Budge’s latest #SPFL reconstruction proposal. 6 teams relegated from the second tier after two years - what could possibly go wrong?! More on

@talkSPORT

now!

They are not thinking rationally. I have little doubt the the structure would become permanent if successful, and I see no reason why it would not be.  

[IronJambo]

3 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

A big Yes our a big No

A big thumbs down

 

Edit: basically not confident of finishing 11th or higher 2 seasons in a row

Edited May 27, 2020 by IronJambo

[Stuart Lyon]

Ah well see them in court then

[Nookie Bear]

32 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35950297

Ta

 

So any club can, in theory, recruit amateurs or very low paid players to see them through. No excuses imo

[Berra than you]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

Ta

 

So any club can, in theory, recruit amateurs or very low paid players to see them through. No excuses imo

Did we not do this for Dylan Bikey under cathro? Just so Hibs couldn't sign him 

[David McCaig]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

Ta

 

So any club can, in theory, recruit amateurs or very low paid players to see them through. No excuses imo

Yes absolutely.

 

 

[gavin1985]

Well if the proposals were rejected, I really hope we put as many clubs out of business with our court action!

 

 

[Martin_T]

20 minutes ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

See how easy it is to come up with amazing ideas?

Give yourself a 360k pay rise. 

You've worked harder than Doncaster.

 

 

 

It even fits better with the structure below the league as well and would allow for both non league champions to be promoted without a playoff.

[will-i-am-a-jambo]

7 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

David Tanner

 

@DavidTannerTV

 

Just spoken to an #SPFL Championship chairman - and it’s a big for Ann Budge’s latest #SPFL reconstruction proposal. 6 teams relegated from the second tier after two years - what could possibly go wrong?! More on

@talkSPORT

now!

 

This isn't aimed at you specifically but did the proposal not say that they would review the leagues after the 2 years? Looks like people haven't actually read the proposal and are reporting a negative slant as it's big bad Hearts making it.

[Turkishcap]

So we go to court and in the meantime clubs drop like fly`s and before the court action is over the spfl have to invite us back to make up the numbers....possible?

 

The buffoons will rue the day this was all rushed and the small minds will also look back from outside their padlocked gates and think "If only we had listened"

[The Internet]

Is that really their sole reason for being against it? **** me, Scottish football is the pits. 

[Whatever]

What an absolute shitshow Scottish football is.

 

Diddies in the Premiership desperate for Old Firm fans to fill their ground.

 

Diddies in the Championship worried about potential relegation in 2 years time despite shedding squads now because they can’t afford to operate.

 

Burn the whole ****in lot to the ground.

[Francis Albert]

7 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

I am well aware of what a QC is and what level of experience they require to have in dealing with extremely complex cases.  So, as I said, I’d rather have legal opinion from a QC rather than a lawyer.

 

Now, you evaded my question. In what way was the legal opinion of two QC’s, one junior and one senior, not very convincing?  

In context by lawyer I  meant QC. I repeat a QC is a lawyer. I think only one of the authors was a QC but that is a detail. I have read many QCs opinions and it was that which led to my comment. It reads to me like a summary or extract so there may well  be more to it e.g. in assessing alternative arguments which would normally be included. My basic point is that QCs are far from infallible and they tend to lean towards what their paying clients want to hear. In my experience. 

 

[lost in space]

That will be a NO then!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52819737

[alwaysthereinspirit]

So rather than risk possibly being demoted 2 full seasons from now, we'll just say no now and more than likely become a Norwegian Blue.

**** them all. Cant see the forest for the trees. 

"your honour,  I'd like to start by calling Dumb Ass Doncaster to the stand"

 

[HMFC01]

20 minutes ago, Siphiwe Tshabalala said:

Hamilton about to go bust?

I want at least 1 double yolk first, Hamilton and St Johnstone for example, then a few clubs going out 1 by 1 then maybe a tri-buster to finish.  Appealing.

 

To answer your question though, I think it's shrouded at the moment unless someone else knows better.  Hopefully.

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, lost in space said:

That will be a NO then!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52819737

Combined average crowd of 1000 

 

Hope they go bust first. 

[Heartsmad1874]

Elgin chairman says "Some of us are hanging on threads at the moment, so it is hard enough without worrying about reconstruction“, wonder how the thread will look when we take court action.

[Riccarton3]

Is this 6 teams relegated threat removed if the clubs vote to maintain 14 x 3 after 2 years?

Edited May 27, 2020 by Riccarton3