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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


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Just now, Horatio Caine said:

BBC last night were saying a 9-3 was required.  This morning they're saying it's 11-1. Bye bye plan, hello court.


Yeah, that’s what it hinges on imo. If it was 9-3 I’d be very confident.

 

I’m not going to scroll all the way back to find and quote it, but @redjambo‘s post earlier this morning niggles me a bit... benefactors offering their support to help us for five years possibly being dependent on us not going to court. 

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I am interested in the championship teams which ones are going to scupper this deal.

 

Surely if they kybosh it then we will see them at the start of the season. If they cant play then I would imagine hefty fines coming their way.

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53 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

Some of them don't seem to realise that there may not be fans allowed at their grounds for several months at least and that when fans are allowed back it won't be in the numbers allowed last season and certainly won't allow for a "full" away end. These same clubs also don't seem to realise they might not be able to field a team or even survive till January with no income. 

 

More fool them! 

 

As Ann says in the proposal this is (or at least should be considered) an emergency situation. 

 

Some of the voices we hear seem to be like passengers on the Titanic moving deck chairs to get a better look at the iceberg.

Perfectly worded

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6 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


The logic is that next season they will be put down beside the worst teams in Scotland who they would not be playing unless they are demoted. If they don’t get relegation they don’t play them, they play a better standard of team, likewise a restructuring to 14-10-10-10, again they wouldn’t play these pish teams. As I said Clyde see it as relegation too.  
 

We’re not going to agree so maybe best to agree there are at least 2 different ways of viewing it.  It is, however, another reason why AB’s resolution may not get voted through in leagues 1 and 2. Let’s wait for the statements and see their reasons. 

But they aren't getting demoted, they are staying where they are and others are being prompted to join them. It's like saying Dundee would be relegated as they are not playing Dundee United and ICT like last year and playing Airdrie instead. 

 

But you are right, let's draw a line under it and move on. 

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6 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

BBC last night were saying a 9-3 was required.  This morning they're saying it's 11-1. Bye bye plan, hello court.

 

This is the reason why Scottish football will never move on. 

 

I see no reason why the old firm would vote to change their 35 years of dominance.  

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What happens if this fails and then the majority of teams in the Championship don't want to play until Jan at least? Hearts will have to fall in line with them due to the voting system? 

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1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

£10k credit card bill, was that for some magic beans?

Sounds like that’s the least of their worries 😀. The fact they’re rumoured to be in financial strife might also explain their decision not to sell season tickets. Which I thought was strange at the time. What doesn’t quite add up was giving David Templeton a new deal, unless they reckon they can sell him but that doesn’t seem likely. 

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doctor jambo
45 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Seen on twitter that the price of football twitter page is saying Hamilton could be in serious trouble financially. 

Hamilton are in serious trouble genetically 😷

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Just now, Goodfella said:

What happens if this fails and then the majority of teams in the Championship don't want to play until Jan at least? Hearts will have to fall in line with them due to the voting system? 

I’m not sure what would happen there but does the voting system really allow for teams to effectively cancel half  the league? Not saying it doesn’t but it’s unprecedented I’m sure. Wonder how we stand in that one legally. 

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7 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

It’s farcical to say the least. Can you imagine the English premiership,  Seria A or La Liga, allowing clubs to come up with reconstruction plans? It’s the job for the SPFL to do this and not our chairman. She’s never going to please all the clubs. The SPFL should be directing this and stating that no clubs shall be relegated...period. It’s a dereliction of duty to allow one member club go cap in hand to all 42 member clubs and beg them to save 3 clubs in particular. Part of me wants to be saved via reconstruction. The other part of me says go for the jugular and you will reap what you sow. He’ll hath no fury like a (jambo) woman scorned! Scottish football has become a circus, ran by clowns for bigger clowns. Totally scunnered with this circus. 

Spot on and I’m totally leaning towards the legal route.  Let’s be honest we know this will not get voted through there’s no chance.  Like you say the fact that it’s us that are having to come up with the plans automatically scuppers it with most clubs who don’t want to help us out in any shape or form simply because of who we are.  That’s why it HAS to be the SPFL themselves who propose any form of reconstruction or a way to help clubs that are saying they can’t play behind closed doors.  It’s their job to provide clarity and leadership and if they are not doing that then what’s the point of them being there except to collect big fat pay cheques???  They will see it as job done now that the official pictures are out of Celtic posing with the league trophy.  I’m well and truly scunnered as well I’m amazed at the amateurish and comical way this has all been allowed to be carried out and now seemingly swept under the carpet.  Scottish football is an absolute laughingstock.  

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willie wallace
30 minutes ago, Koolkeith said:

Well run? haha They gave hundreds of thousands of pounds to a NIgerian con man. G

Forgot about that😀

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willie wallace
30 minutes ago, Koolkeith said:

Well run? haha They gave hundreds of thousands of pounds to a NIgerian con man. G

Forgot about that😀

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Byyy The Light
48 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Seen on twitter that the price of football twitter page is saying Hamilton could be in serious trouble financially. 


:jj:

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1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I’m not sure what would happen there but does the voting system really allow for teams to effectively cancel half  the league? Not saying it doesn’t but it’s unprecedented I’m sure. Wonder how we stand in that one legally. 

 

Can imagine if this fails that will be the SPFL's next big vote. Even if it's unprecedented. Will obviously strengthen court case but still not a good thought.

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The Mighty Thor

We should just set up a breakaway league of those clubs that can play closed doors and **** the rest of these diddy clubs. 

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Ethan Hunt
5 hours ago, redjambo said:

I haven't been following this thread closely for the last day or so, but this news about the benefactors agreeing to back us for five years, if true, changes how I now think things will play out here.

 

Ann's new proposals will almost certainly fail. I actually gave them much more chance of succeeding than the previous discussions given that so many clubs now have their backs to the wall. However, there are just far too many clubs with too many differing views and aspirations to give the new proposals any chance of success.

 

The thing that has changed for me is that I no longer think we will pursue the legal option. The most likely scenario involving the benefactors, in my mind anyway, is that they will have said something to Ann along the lines of "Look, we know it's an injustice, we know that you are right and they are wrong. However, if you take the SPFL to court, particularly now, it could be disastrous for Scottish football and for many clubs, as well as leaving us as the arch enemies for a long time to come. So, we'll be the ones to give you the money that you need to survive in the lower division, for as long as it takes. While other clubs are sinking around you, we'll keep Hearts afloat and allow you time to rebuild."

 

I personally would have preferred legal action, but I think we'll play the long game.

If you’ve read the whole proposal then I think it’s clear - to me anyway - that we are going down the legal route if this fails. The mention of the benefactors was to should we have the means to take them to court, and the means to survive after it regardless of the result. My take on it is that the benefactors are effectively saying go for it.

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BelgeJambo
26 minutes ago, Brown1982 said:

So we are saying Hamilton are in big trouble already.  No surprise there.  My question is though..... have they not just received the end of season pay out along with everyone else that the SPFL were threatening not to give them unless they voted yes???  What’s happened to that already???  

Backed a Donkey with it 😂

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Francis Albert

IMO new proposal will fail. they will go through the motions unlike last time, maybe even extending the process to demonstrate they have explored every avenue etc in advance of possible court hearing. 

I am not confident of a successful court outcome. The Partick Thistle QC's opinion didn't seem very convincing to me but I'd love to know the lawyers' private advice on their opinion. 

Someone with long experience of litigation once advised me: 

If a lawyer says you have 90% chance then the odds are probably in your favour. If 70% then its anyone's guess. If 50% then you might just might get lucky. If 30% then he or she is saying "Look I am a lawyer but even I am embarrassed to take money from you for this opinion".

Which is not to say we should not go to court in any event in the hope of bankrupting the SPFL and as many clubs as possible. 

 

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34 minutes ago, Koolkeith said:

Well run? haha They gave hundreds of thousands of pounds to a NIgerian con man. 

Anyone got a link to this?  I’d like to refresh my memory on this again 

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2 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

Backed a Donkey with it 😂

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍

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jamboinglasgow
10 minutes ago, Rods said:

I am interested in the championship teams which ones are going to scupper this deal.

 

Surely if they kybosh it then we will see them at the start of the season. If they cant play then I would imagine hefty fines coming their way.

 

Does seem a risky strategy from those clubs, stop reconstruction and a genuine way to help get through this as there might be a possibility that 6 clubs get relegated in 2 years time (which would be surprising as clubs would vote at the end of 2 years whether to revert back to the old way, so surely at least 6 clubs would vote against that), there by pissing off the club and the fans of the biggest club in the league whose money they need in a crisis. 

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1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Does seem a risky strategy from those clubs, stop reconstruction and a genuine way to help get through this as there might be a possibility that 6 clubs get relegated in 2 years time (which would be surprising as clubs would vote at the end of 2 years whether to revert back to the old way, so surely at least 6 clubs would vote against that), there by pissing off the club and the fans of the biggest club in the league whose money they need in a crisis. 

That's  what I think.   It's  not relegation in two years it's  either back to status quo or vote to keep the leagues as they are.

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1 hour ago, Walter Bishop said:

There is not a chance this will get passed, You only have to read fans of other clubs on Twitter and most of these clubs will listen to thier fans. 

 

Legal proceedings are only way forward and I really, really hope it leads to the end of many of these clubs. 

 

I don't think Scottish Football will ever improve until a modicum of "all in it together" is fostered. Which, in these times of polarising social media is going to be never. 

 

1 hour ago, Billybuffjaw said:

It's fallen on Budge for a blatantly obvious reason, if we were second bottom when this all kicked off she would be as anonymous as everyone else. I hope and prey this will be accepted but as a betting man I'd back my house on it being thrown out.

 

1 hour ago, Billybuffjaw said:

My fear is she has proposed saving Scottish football with one hand with the threat of ruining it if not accepted, I can't see that going down well at all. My own opinion is reconstruction was never going to happen and we would have been better taking it on the chin and with dignity. Let's be honest here, we wouldn't have voted for this if we hadn't finished bottom.

 

FWIW I think a few clubs will fold before a ball is kicked in earnest and we'll be in the top flight anyway.


You are 100% at it. Take our medicine because we were victim of an arbitrary cut-off which could have come when we were not bottom, when we were 8th in the form league with 24 points to play for?  

What Budge has done is pitch-perfect diplomacy - laid out the facts, the choices, the incentives - the fist inside a velvet glove, and shown what would happen if the glove is removed due to their decision - not ours. 

I'll "pray" for your black hibby soul. 

 

43 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


*goes on line to look up “dancing shoes” and “champagne”*


Which is it - are we backing Budge's plans due to the care of duty and efforts she has made to protect all the clubs in Scotland including ourselves or, as has been levelled at the proposals by the Scottish football "journalists" is it all about saving ourselves? We can't really have it both ways and complain about the reception of the reconstruction document if we then crack one off at other clubs being in the shit. 

It's the same attitude that the chairmen of the so-called "tinpot" clubs get flailed for when they take their 5 minutes of fame to make shitty jokes about other clubs/owners. Ultimately, we need clubs to play against and we, considering how hard we fought to save out great club, should surely be more able to empathize with how a decent fan of another club feels if they are facing the end?*

*Yes, I am somewhat of a hypocrit as I would not raise a finger or care a jot if those vermin *******s who nearly scuppered our CVA were to get in trouble. But they've earned that. 

Edited by Gizmo
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BelgeJambo

Doncaster stated early on that the board would support Ann and reconstruction ideas.

 

Their silence and lack of coercion for this vote says a lot 

 

 

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This whole thing is about hatred of hearts and not about what’s right for football that’s why it will fail.

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John Findlay
1 hour ago, Koolkeith said:

Will be interesting to see if Doncaster and his board put the same effort into backing this vote as the last one. 

That is the crux for me. I am sure they will as they dont want to go anywhere near a witness box.

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It would be a travesty if Hamilton were to go tits up. They've offered so much to the history of Scottish football. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:pleasing: 🥳🍾

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15 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

I don't think Scottish Football will ever improve until a modicum of "all in it together" is fostered. Which, in these times of polarising social media is going to be never. 

 

 


You are 100% at it. Take our medicine because we were victim of an arbitrary cut-off which could have come when we were not bottom, when we were 8th in the form league with 24 points to play for?  

What Budge has done is pitch-perfect diplomacy - laid out the facts, the choices, the incentives - the fist inside a velvet glove, and shown what would happen if the glove is removed due to their decision - not ours. 

I'll "pray" for your black hibby soul. 

 


Which is it - are we backing Budge's plans due to the care of duty and efforts she has made to protect all the clubs in Scotland including ourselves or, as has been levelled at the proposals by the Scottish football "journalists" is it all about saving ourselves? We can't really have it both ways and complain about the reception of the reconstruction document if we then crack one off at other clubs being in the shit. 

It's the same attitude that the chairmen of the so-called "tinpot" clubs get flailed for when they take their 5 minutes of fame to make shitty jokes about other clubs/owners. Ultimately, we need clubs to play against and we, considering how hard we fought to save out great club, should surely be more able to empathize with how a decent fan of another club feels if they are facing the end?*

*Yes, I am somewhat of a hypocrit as I would not raise a finger or care a jot if those vermin *******s who nearly scuppered our CVA were to get in trouble. But they've earned that. 


It’s both. I’m not Ann Budge. I don’t run a football club. If I did, be it Hearts, Hibs, Accies or Celtic, I’d be putting in my best efforts to protect the league my club operated in.

 

I’m a supporter, and I’m a very embittered supporter thanks to the way clubs like Hamilton Accies have not been acting in the best interests of the league we play in, and as such I’d be happy for them to struggle after voting for us to go down, being against restructuring, and not wanting an investigation in to the SPFL resolution.
 

 

Edited by Special Officer Doofy
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Heartsmad1874
1 hour ago, Whatever said:


I think even if it’s 75% it will get rejected out of hand. This is Scottish football and if there’s an easier route to take it will be avoided.

 

Premiership clubs will see this as an opportunity to ‘teach us a lesson’.  Championship clubs will see us as a cash cow, filling their away ends when spectators return.

 

I guess we’ll find out soon enough.


Championship clubs (bar Inverness) are way off the mark if they think Hearts fans will be giving them a penny.

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Jean Louis Valois
4 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

This whole thing is about hatred of hearts and not about what’s right for football that’s why it will fail.

Spot on. Wouldnt matter what plan we came up with, some clubs wont want to support it In fear of the seeth from their supporters.

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3 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

It would be a travesty if Hamilton were to go tits up. They've offered so much to the history of Scottish football. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:pleasing: 🥳🍾

hamilton have only done one good thing for scottish football

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38 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

Its unbelievable that Anne is doing the job of the SPFL and the £400k CEO to solve this car crash.

Now hiding away having done celtic's bidding ! 

 

 

Someone with an equally stupid haircut...

Wheres Neily.jpg

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jamboinglasgow
3 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

This whole thing is about hatred of hearts and not about what’s right for football that’s why it will fail.

 

I dont think for some its as strong as hatred, but I think for some that they want to see us taken down a peg or two because they view this as us not wanting to be relegated. 

 

This whole thing in a nutshell is the problem with Scottish football, people are all out for themselves. And they let personal grievances have more importance than working together for a common good. Add in a slavishness for tiny amounts of money in the short term.

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Just now, milky_26 said:

hamilton have only done one good thing for scottish football

 

 

Exactly...now time for them to bugger off for good. 🤞

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Billybuffjaw
15 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

I don't think Scottish Football will ever improve until a modicum of "all in it together" is fostered. Which, in these times of polarising social media is going to be never. 

 

 


You are 100% at it. Take our medicine because we were victim of an arbitrary cut-off which could have come when we were not bottom, when we were 8th in the form league with 24 points to play for?  

What Budge has done is pitch-perfect diplomacy - laid out the facts, the choices, the incentives - the fist inside a velvet glove, and shown what would happen if the glove is removed due to their decision - not ours. 

I'll "pray" for your black hibby soul. 

 


Which is it - are we backing Budge's plans due to the care of duty and efforts she has made to protect all the clubs in Scotland including ourselves or, as has been levelled at the proposals by the Scottish football "journalists" is it all about saving ourselves? We can't really have it both ways and complain about the reception of the reconstruction document if we then crack one off at other clubs being in the shit. 

It's the same attitude that the chairmen of the so-called "tinpot" clubs get flailed for when they take their 5 minutes of fame to make shitty jokes about other clubs/owners. Ultimately, we need clubs to play against and we, considering how hard we fought to save out great club, should surely be more able to empathize with how a decent fan of another club feels if they are facing the end?*

*Yes, I am somewhat of a hypocrit as I would not raise a finger or care a jot if those vermin *******s who nearly scuppered our CVA were to get in trouble. But they've earned that. 

Away and take a Tom Kite with your Hibby pish.

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6 minutes ago, Jean Louis Valois said:

Spot on. Wouldnt matter what plan we came up with, some clubs wont want to support it In fear of the seeth from their supporters.

Exactly, what will be will be in all of this but I just hope afterwards our club and fans remember it.

no putting money into other clubs coffers with the exception of Inverness, Partick and Stranraer.

also from our club, no loaning out of our young players to any of these clubs!!

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hughesie27

The lack of plan for what happens after 2 seasons of this might scupper it. 

It would mean 3 teams being relegated from the Prem with 1 coming up and no play offs. 

7 teams would be relegated from the Championship with 1 coming up from league 1.

10 (of the 14 that started the season) teams would then be relegated from League 1 to re-create League 2.

 

So 20 teams out of 42 would end up in a League below during that season.

 

Of course they might get an opportunity to make the 3 tier system permanent, but no guarentee.

You could also try and argue that many of those teams wouldn't be getting "relegated", they'd just be reverting to the same position that they'd have been in had refonstruxtion never happened.

Not sure they'd see it that way though.

Edited by hughesie27
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letsmakesomenoise

Sent the proposal to a couple of Hibbie ex-colleagues I keep in touch with, and one of them started ranting about this being all about saving Hearts and not dealing with other injustices.
 

When I probed further, he came out with Hibs losing out on £130k cos they had gone down a place 😂

 

I pointed out that they may well have dropped more than one place, given their propensity to Hibzit, so perhaps they would need to pay something back.  That went down like a lead balloon.  Hehe

 

Shes got em rattled!

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2 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Away and take a Tom Kite with your Hibby pish.

 

Away and take your "take your medicine pish" and ram it where the sun doth not shine. 

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11 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:


Championship clubs (bar Inverness) are way off the mark if they think Hearts fans will be giving them a penny.


Not disagreeing.

 

Merely suggesting how I think they’ll view us in the Championship.

 

2014/15 and sold out away ends (and many more in some home sections at times) will still be relatively fresh in the minds of some club owners.

 

 

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David McCaig
2 minutes ago, Whatever said:


Not disagreeing.

 

Merely suggesting how I think they’ll view us in the Championship.

 

2014/15 and sold out away ends (and many more in some home sections at times) will still be relatively fresh in the minds of some club owners.

 

 

Hearts in the Championship is more likely to mean their season starting in August with no fans in the ground... full stop.

 

I’m assuming that any decision to delay, truncate, abort the lower leagues has to be voted on by the SPFL as a whole.

 

Another assumption is that when Ann Budge says the Premier League needs Hearts more than the Championship she is referring to clubs being able to operate BCD.  The Championship really doesn’t need Hearts there, forcing them to play a full season.

Edited by David McCaig
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So it's looking like as I predicted.    It will be scuppered in the lower leagues by clubs who :

 

1.    Cannot afford to play matches next season.

2.    Will most likely be out of business in the future.

 

Essentially we're going to be dragged down by clubs on death row.    On the premise of a fantasy that they'll even be here in a year's time.

 

Legal action probably doesn't faze these ***** because they're virtually extinct anyway.    They have nothing to lose.

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SPFL are setting this up to fail.. However using it as a basis they will come in and save the day by tweeking it slightly to look like the saviours. 

 

Cove will still have their championship flag to fly even if the league is called championship level 2.

 

Hearts should hoist a flag with unfairly removed from the league. 

 

If teams do go into administration will they still get 15 points deducted? 

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20 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

That is the crux for me. I am sure they will as they dont want to go anywhere near a witness box.

He won’t be the only one. I’m sure the organ grinder at Parkhead won’t want that either. 

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56 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

Its unbelievable that Anne is doing the job of the SPFL and the £400k CEO to solve this car crash.

Now hiding away having done celtic's bidding ! 

 

They would have done nothing. Hoping it will go away. 

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3 minutes ago, Derek From Stenhouse said:

SPFL are setting this up to fail.. However using it as a basis they will come in and save the day by tweeking it slightly to look like the saviours. 

 

Cove will still have their championship flag to fly even if the league is called championship level 2.

 

Hearts should hoist a flag with unfairly removed from the league. 

 

If teams do go into administration will they still get 15 points deducted? 

No deduction of points has already been decided. 

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4 minutes ago, Derek From Stenhouse said:

they will come in and save the day by tweeking it slightly to look like the saviours. 


I definitely see that happening if it fails.

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  • jkbmod 9 changed the title to SPFL declare league (2019/20) due to Covid (Arbitration panel upholds SPFL decision )
  • davemclaren changed the title to SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

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