SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[redjambo]

5 minutes ago, williamgerrard said:

To right i will be boycotting away games unless some people want to have a go at that aswell 

 

No. I imagine that most people will be with you on that score, WG.

[Tommy Brown]

39 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Indeed of all the words to leave out.

There was a thumbs down image in its place.

This didn't work in the copy paste.

I was a bit annoyed at first until someone posted again

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Narrator: "The coronavirus had other ideas."

 

[queensferryjambo]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Could mean we might be playing in league with Airdrie and East Fife then. 

 

 

Do you think every Premireship club is going to survive this?

 

I personally don't - although knowing our luck they would invite Inverness or Celtic Colts into the top flight before us.

[TheGoodLord]

41 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I worry that we’re in an echo chamber here and people are telling themselves what they want to hear:

 

That Rangers’ dossier would be explosive (it wasn’t)

That reconstruction might save us (it didn’t)

That a second attempt at reconstruction might save us (it won’t)

That we’ll land the whole league with a huge bill by winning in court (it could be us who pick up the tab).

I’m still not convinced Ann will take this to court. I think she’ll see the ensuing mess as counter productive. Only my opinion though 

 

Tend to agree sadly, I’m not convinced AB will instruct her lawyers either I think she was counting on others putIng that notion forward and let it grow arms and legs in the hope the threat would focus the mind of the other chairmen. Sadly it doesn’t appear to have succeeded. 

[Robbo-Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Could mean we might be playing in league with Airdrie and East Fife then. 

Depends on how many leagues we have by the time August comes about. 

 

It might only be one or two the way things are going. 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, queensferryjambo said:

The only good news I suppose is the BBC are so desperate for a negative headline in Scottish football they have had to seek out Elgin and Stenhousemuir to get one.

 

Presumably if there were any big dissenters in the top flight and Championship they would also be bumping their gums - Watch this space I suppose.

 

 

 

Initial comments don't mean much.

 

McMenemy of Stenhousemuir said his board haven't discussed the proposal yet. As I said above he wants to know view of Premiership clubs first. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, TheGoodLord said:

Tend to agree sadly, I’m not convinced AB will instruct her lawyers either I think she was counting on others putIng that notion forward and let it grow arms and legs in the hope the threat would focus the mind of the other chairmen. Sadly it doesn’t appear to have succeeded. 

In short, Rangers’ threats and rhetoric was just bluster. They had nothing, presented nothing and have ultimately done nothing. We either go it alone or we don’t bother.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

13 minutes ago, south morocco said:

If clubs have to be mothballed, where would that leave them once they want to come back? Bottom of the bottom league alphabetically sounds fair enough. If you can’t play then you can’t just sit in suspended animation until you feel like it ffs. 

Celtic will most likely get 3 - 0 wins for all games not played in any league. Which they can hold then use as required if and when a game doesn't go their way.

It's the only fair and balanced way to get us through this.

[Robbo-Jambo]

1 minute ago, TheGoodLord said:

Tend to agree sadly, I’m not convinced AB will instruct her lawyers either I think she was counting on others putIng that notion forward and let it grow arms and legs in the hope the threat would focus the mind of the other chairmen. Sadly it doesn’t appear to have succeeded. 

In her statement last week she did say that she would take things further if reconstruction was a no go. 

 

Can't really see her backing down on that so I expect it will go to court or she is going to look a bit silly imo. 

[DETTY29]

Apols if mentioned but the Championship clubs for too long have been used to us, Rangers, Hibs and Dundee clubs being in their league and the away support we bring.

 

They want to release virtually all their squads, keep costs to a minimum, while we pay out extensive player costs and then play half a season.  (The 3-4 season is just a bluster).  

 

The season then only starts up with full fans which they expect us to fill away ends to support their finances.

 

This shortened season reduces our chances of promotion so we may be there for two years to aid their recovery.

 

I know its difficult but DO NOT go to away games in the Championship next season.  Please.

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, TheGoodLord said:

Tend to agree sadly, I’m not convinced AB will instruct her lawyers either I think she was counting on others putIng that notion forward and let it grow arms and legs in the hope the threat would focus the mind of the other chairmen. Sadly it doesn’t appear to have succeeded. 

Isn't it to focus minds within the SpF L  Board not so much the Clubs. And also those who seem to have a close association/special relationship with said Board. Nelms, Cormack etc.

 

THE Board uses robust conversations to get what THEY want. It's worked before for them  so its more a Board thing. IT'S amazing what they can achieve with a bit of effort

Edited May 27, 2020 by Riccarton3

[Martin_T]

Perhaps a more logical first step might be to ask teams whether they intend to participate in next season given the circumstances, and then restructure whatever is left.

[Mikey1874]

Just now, Martin_T said:

Perhaps a more logical first step might be to ask teams whether they intend to participate in next season given the circumstances, and then restructure whatever is left.

 

Once a plan is in place to restart including where (hubs) and on what basis with or without fans.

 

I know the two things are linked. 

[south morocco]

2 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Perhaps a more logical first step might be to ask teams whether they intend to participate in next season given the circumstances, and then restructure whatever is left.

Yes, totally correct. Work things from there.

[Boof]

54 minutes ago, williamgerrard said:

Sorry but now is the time we get budge to fcuk get someone who knows what there doing .Ann i thank you for saving us but nows the time to go shes made to many mistakes 

 

If I had the time and bandwidth to post a billion of these I would.

[Robbo-Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Perhaps a more logical first step might be to ask teams whether they intend to participate in next season given the circumstances, and then restructure whatever is left.

Much too simple and sensible for them to do that. 

[Des Lynam]

10 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

Thickness is a disease among these clowns. 

 

The more of them that go down the shitter the better. 

 

There will be reconstruction; by default.

Then we should take them to court to stop reconstruction. 
 

 

[benny]

17 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Reconstruction is going to happen anyway because a lot of these smaller clubs won't be able to play games and the leagues will have to be juggled about by the time August comes and we are ready to restart. 

Where are the premier league clubs getting money from to start behind closed doors.

Signing players as well.

Once the clubs realise they cannot resign or sign players because of a lack of funds what happens then.

June is going to be a shambles.

Rangers spending 5 million on Hagi sums them up.

Refunds for games missed going to be a problem as well.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Could mean we might be playing in league with Airdrie and East Fife then. 

 

One thing's for sure, we'll skoosh the league whatever the Championship looks like. We've already shown how quickly it's possible to ramp up finances wise after promotion. ST sales, a trimmed down squad, temporarily slashed costs, the parachute payment and any compensation, and increased FoH subs will see us through until then. We have a sought after asset in Hickey if we need extra. We'll come back up lean and extremely mean.

[Beast Boy]

57 minutes ago, williamgerrard said:

Why ? Im sick to the back teeth of here costing us shes far to weak get someone in who wont mess about and demand what the fans want budge time is up she can leave with that other rat levein 

 

Christ... 

[Newton51]

SPFL on Hearts recon plan: ‘As these matters are ultimately decided by clubs via a democratic process, we will facilitate a series of divisional meetings, starting with the Premiership on Monday, at which all 42 clubs will have the chance to discuss the proposals in detail.”

[Robbo-Jambo]

5 minutes ago, benny said:

Where are the premier league clubs getting money from to start behind closed doors.

Signing players as well.

Once the clubs realise they cannot resign or sign players because of a lack of funds what happens then.

June is going to be a shambles.

Rangers spending 5 million on Hagi sums them up.

Refunds for games missed going to be a problem as well.

Yip, some of the Premier league clubs might not be able to start. 

 

Might be an idea asking all the clubs who can start in August and reconstruct the leagues from who can. 

[queensferryjambo]

13 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Perhaps a more logical first step might be to ask teams whether they intend to participate in next season given the circumstances, and then restructure whatever is left.

 

 

The SPFL should be doing this not leaving it to Hearts and the Championship clubs to discuss though.

[colinmaroon]

3 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

Christ... 

 

Please!

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Just now, Newton51 said:

SPFL on Hearts recon plan: ‘As these matters are ultimately decided by clubs via a democratic process, we will facilitate a series of divisional meetings, starting with the Premiership on Monday, at which all 42 clubs will have the chance to discuss the proposals in detail.”

 

Recognising you can avoid wasting any more time if Premiership clubs won't support it.

[Billybuffjaw]

5 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

I’ve heard, and read a lot of pish said about us over the last few months.

 

To hear any poster, and I make the assumption that they are a Jambo, saying that we should accept the decision with “dignity” makes my blood f...... boil.

 

No idea if I took what he said the wrong way but happy to be corrected on that one. 

Did Gary Mackay not say the same thing? I know a few of my family feel the same.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

What I took from today's podcast 

 

Still reluctance 

 

Budge will go legal proceedings if necessary 

 

Stenhousemuir boy said no but in 2 weeks it would happen by default. 

 

My thoughts,  Doncaster will want his fixture  list and Sky getting clarity, fully expect those with power to be robust once again rather than having to consider court with little to no gain. 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

SPFL on Hearts recon plan: ‘As these matters are ultimately decided by clubs via a democratic process, we will facilitate a series of divisional meetings, starting with the Premiership on Monday, at which all 42 clubs will have the chance to discuss the proposals in detail.”

 

 

[18Jambo_dave74]

To be honest, I've had enough of all this now - it's absolutely clear that this will not get voted through. 

 

Time to start legal action and watch clubs disappear from existence. I hope that the time comes where clubs are on their knees begging for rule changes, votes, reconstruction, financial aid etc to help them survive and we can be the ones that have the vote that sends them over the edge. 

 

The press and the media are already working on painting us out to be the bad guys. I know the fans will have long memories and my only wish is that we, as a club, are ruthless and vindictive to all others. Fans of opposition clubs clustered in to a small corner of the Roseburn with Tynecastle at it's hostile and nasty best. Visiting directors situated in the Main Stand and made to 'feel welcome'. 

 

Only Hearts. 

[Randy Marsh]

3 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Did Gary Mackay not say the same thing? I know a few of my family feel the same.

He did but Mackay is thick as shit. 

[XB52]

38 minutes ago, williamgerrard said:

How about no . I am season ticket holder go to all home and away games and pledge funds aswell so i am entitled to my view so pipe down little man 

😃😃

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, 18Jambo_dave74 said:

To be honest, I've had enough of all this now - it's absolutely clear that this will not get voted through. 

 

Time to start legal action and watch clubs disappear from existence. I hope that the time comes where clubs are on their knees begging for rule changes, votes, reconstruction, financial aid etc to help them survive and we can be the ones that have the vote that sends them over the edge. 

 

The press and the media are already working on painting us out to be the bad guys. I know the fans will have long memories and my only wish is that we, as a club, are ruthless and vindictive to all others. Fans of opposition clubs clustered in to a small corner of the Roseburn with Tynecastle at it's hostile and nasty best. Visiting directors situated in the Main Stand and made to 'feel welcome'. 

 

Only Hearts. 

It does feel like we are being strung along with a view to eventually being timed out.

[Drumelzier]

7 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

SPFL on Hearts recon plan: ‘As these matters are ultimately decided by clubs via a democratic process, we will facilitate a series of divisional meetings, starting with the Premiership on Monday, at which all 42 clubs will have the chance to discuss the proposals in detail.”

 

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Recognising you can avoid wasting any more time if Premiership clubs won't support it.

 

Well that's certainly not a ringing endorsement so I hope there's more detail to follow soon.

 

edit.... looks like that's it..  just two sentences.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Drumelzier
update

[Rods]

Yeh I am getting the feeling this is a bluff

 

Initiate court proceedings now and then see the process speed up.

[Jambof3tornado]

20 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Perhaps a more logical first step might be to ask teams whether they intend to participate in next season given the circumstances, and then restructure whatever is left.

Teams wont know the answer though as they have no idea if its closed doors open doors full season part season etc.

 

Will we build a squad through the summer if the championship might not even get going?

 

Do the smaller clubs build squads to then find they cant get going??

 

Lots of questions but very few answers.

[Robbo-Jambo]

Just now, jonnothejambo said:

 

Buying time for the big boys to hopefully tell the minnows what is good for them. 

 

In short, this may save you otherwise you are Donald Ducked. 

This

[Rudolf]

1 hour ago, williamgerrard said:

Why ? Im sick to the back teeth of here costing us shes far to weak get someone in who wont mess about and demand what the fans want budge time is up she can leave with that other rat levein 

Step away from the Buckfast...

Spoiler

 

 

[Riccarton3]

9 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Did Gary Mackay not say the same thing? I know a few of my family feel the same.

People seem to pick and choose when this 'dignity'is displayed, depending on the circumstances. Human nature.

[brunoatemyhamster]

1 hour ago, Martin_T said:

 

It even fits better with the structure below the league as well and would allow for both non league champions to be promoted without a playoff.

Youre right

Make it 400k.

And 6% yearly. 

And have the rest of the year off. 

Or until Lawell phones you. 

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

It does feel like we are being strung along with a view to eventually being timed out.

 

The same thought occurred to me.    That there will be a continuing number of steps and stages.   Always something on the horizon to wait for before the book is closed.    All for the purpose of delaying and preventing us commencing the legal route.

 

 

[EIEIO]

Isn't there a meeting with the Scottish government on Friday? That plus a vote of Premiership clubs on Monday should make things clear one way or the other.

[maroonlegions]

Hamilton showing signs of extreme "going concern". Seems they are in £400, 000 worth of debt and owing £10,000 on some credit card. 

 

 

 

[Jambo66]

31 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Celtic will most likely get 3 - 0 wins for all games not played in any league. Which they can hold then use as required if and when a game doesn't go their way.

It's the only fair and balanced way to get us through this.

Hopefully, there will be no football at all next year and Celtic can be awarded another treble. I really don't want anything to get in the way of that 😁

[annushorribilis III]

Just now, maroonlegions said:

Hamilton showing signs of extreme "going concern". Seems they are in £400, 000 worth of debt and owing £10,000 on some credit card. 

 

 

 

What a shame. 

[Boof]

18 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

Christ... 

 

[husref musemic]

48 minutes ago, williamgerrard said:

How about no . I am season ticket holder go to all home and away games and pledge funds aswell so i am entitled to my view so pipe down little man 

The fans who are laughing at us now will be laughing at you when you hand them your cash.

[Boof]

2 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Hamilton showing signs of extreme "going concern". Seems they are in £400, 000 worth of debt and owing £10,000 on some credit card. 

 

Two and a half days of FoH subs...

[husref musemic]

3 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Hamilton showing signs of extreme "going concern". Seems they are in £400, 000 worth of debt and owing £10,000 on some credit card. 

 

 

 

funny the ammount being 400k. sack Doncaster and save a football club !

[Mikey1874]

Sunday Mail IPSO response

 

 

Dear Complainants,

 

I write further to our earlier email regarding your complaint about an article headlined “DON’T START NEW WAR”, published by the Sunday Mail on 17 May 2020.

 

The Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO) has received a number of complaints about this article.  In order to be able to respond in a timely manner, we have prepared a response which deals with the various concerns raised by complaints.

 

When IPSO receives a complaint, the Executive staff review it first to decide whether the complaint falls within our remit, and whether it raises a possible breach of the Editors’ Code of Practice. We have read your complaint carefully, and have decided that it does not raise a possible breach of the Editors’ Code.

 

Many complaints expressed concern that the article was highly offensive, inflammatory and distasteful. Complainants said that the picture of the knife was inappropriate and insensitive, especially as knife crime is a growing problem in the U.K.  We should note that the Editors’ Code does not address the issues of taste or offence. It is designed to deal with any possible conflicts between newspapers’ right to freedom of expression and the rights of individuals, such as their right to privacy.  Newspapers and magazine are free to publish what they think is appropriate as long as the rights of individuals – which are protected under the Code – are not infringed on. Therefore, concerns that the article was offensive and inappropriate did not engage of the terms of the Editors’ Code.

 

Many complainants said that the article breached Clause 3 (Harassment) as it constituted harassment towards Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle football clubs, including members of their board and supporters. Clause 3 generally relates to the way journalists behave when researching a news story and is meant to protect people from being repeatedly approached by the press against their wishes. As the concerns we received did not relate to this, the terms of Clause 3 were not engaged.

 

Many complainants expressed concern that the article could incite hatred or violence. If you believe that the article was inciting hatred or violence, then you may wish to take these concerns to the police.  IPSO only considers concerns under the terms of the Editors’ Code and cannot offer advice on criminal matters.

 

Many complainants said the article breached Clause 12 (Discrimination) because it discriminated against Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle football clubs including their supporters. Clause 12 is designed to protect specific individuals mentioned by the press from discrimination based on their race, colour, religion, gender identity, sexual orientation or any physical or mental illness or disability. It does not apply to groups or categories of people. The concern that the article discriminated against the two football clubs and their supporters in general did not relate to an individual, nor did it relate to a category protected by Clause 12. This meant that it did not engage the terms of this Clause. For more information about Clause 12 and how it works, this blog may be of interest.

 

Some complainants said the article breached Clause 1 (Accuracy) because it included a picture of a knife. Complainants said this was misleading as knives were not relevant to the story and the use of the photo associated Scottish football with violent crime.  Newspapers have the right to choose which pieces of information they publish, including photographs, , as long as they do not otherwise breach the Code.  This includes the selection and presentation of photographs.  In this instance, the use of the photograph did not make the article significantly misleading. The article as a whole made clear that the photograph of the knife was a reference to a potential “civil war” in Scottish football over proposals to reconfigure the leagues. This was made clear in both the photograph’s caption and the first few paragraphs of the article, which referenced “a last-ditch plea for league reconstruction” which could spark opposition. We did not therefore find the use of the photograph misleading in the way you suggested. There was no possible breach of Clause 1 on this particular point.

 

Some complainants said the article breached Clause 1 (Accuracy) because it reported there could be a “new civil war” in Scottish football. Complainants said this was misleading as the Chair of Heart of Midlothian, Ann Budge, did not intend to start a “war”.  The Editors’ Code makes clear that the press has the right to shock, editorialise and campaign, as long as they do not otherwise breach the Code. In this instance, we did not consider the publication’s use of the word “war” significantly misleading in the way some complainants suggested.  This was clearly the newspaper’s characterisation of events. The basis of this characterisation was made clear, with the article suggesting that the proposals put forward by Ann Budge were likely to result in “opposition” and “infighting”. The reference to a “war” was also based on similar comments from Iain McMenemy, Chair of Stenhousemuir, who stated that the proposals could result in “six more weeks of civil war”. Therefore, where the article made clear the basis of the phrase “new civil war”, we did not consider the article  misleading in the way you suggested. There was no possible breach of Clause 1.

 

Some complainants said the article breached Clause 1 (Accuracy) as it was sensationalist.  Clause 1 requires publications to take care not to publish inaccurate or misleading information, and to correct significantly inaccurate, misleading or distorted information. It does not relate to concerns that reporting is sensationalist, where no inaccuracies are identified. The Preamble to the Editors’ Code makes clear that the press has the right to shock, to challenge and to be partisan.  Therefore, concerns that this article was sensationalist did not engage the terms of this Clause.

 

Some complainants said the article breached Clause 4 (Intrusion into grief and shock) because it was inflammatory and offensive. Clause 4 generally relates to the sensitivity of the approaches journalists make to, and the information they publish about, individuals who have been bereaved or are in state of shock following a distressing event. In this instance, the concerns we received did not relate to this. As such the terms of Clause 4 were not engaged.

 

Some complainants said the article breached Clause 9 (Reporting of crime) because the article incited  violence and was inappropriate. Clause 9 generally relates to the identification of the friends and family of individuals who are accused or convicted of crime. As the concerns we received did not relate to this, the terms of Clause 9 were not engaged. 

 

Some complainants said the article breached Clause 10 (Clandestine devices and subterfuge) because it sought to undermine Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle football clubs. Clause 10 relates to the obtaining of information by journalists through clandestine means or by deploying subterfuge – for instance, by using undercover reporters.  In this instance, the concerns we received did not relate to this. Therefore, the terms of Clause 10 were not engaged.

 

Some complainants expressed a concern that this article was biased against Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle football clubs and their supporters. We should note that the Editors’ Code does not address the issues of bias or balance.  It makes clear that newspapers have the right to be partisan, to give their own opinion and to campaign, as long as they take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information, and to distinguish between comment, conjecture and fact. As such, concern that this article was biased did not, in and of itself, raise a possible breach of the Code.

 

You are entitled to request that the Executive’s decision to reject your complaint be reviewed by IPSO’s Complaints Committee. To do so you will need to write to us in the next seven days, setting out the reasons why you believe the decision should be reviewed. Please note that we are unable to accept requests for review made seven days after the date of this email.

 

We would like to thank you for giving us the opportunity to consider the points you have raised, and have shared this correspondence with the newspaper to make it aware of your concerns.

 

Best wishes,

 

Sebastian Harwood

 

Cc

 

The Sunday Mail

 

 

 

 

Sebastian Harwood Complaints Officer

IPSO Gate House 1 Farringdon Street London EC4M 7LG

Tel: 0300 123 2220 Website: www.ipso.co.uk

IPSO is the independent regulator of the newspaper and magazine industry. We exist to promote and uphold the highest professional standards of journalism in the UK, and to support members of the public in seeking redress where they believe that the Editors’ Code of Practice has been breached. We are able to consider concerns about editorial content in newspapers and magazines, and about the conduct of journalists.

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