SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[RENE]

6 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Never thought I'd agree with Provan and Walker in same week. Link to article worth a read. 

 

I'm going to have to take a pill and lie down after that disclosure.

[HMFC01]

3 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

What do folk reckon to the chances of this getting voted down, then the “working groups” report back with an almost identical proposal, which gets passed? 

 

I don't know what the "working groups" means except anyone but hearts proposals will be better looked at and accepted.  I am expecting at least 1 backup proposal from Doncaster to make sure it avoids going to court, maybe just make some tweaks to Budges'.

[lost in leith]

16 minutes ago, Stone1992 said:

 

 

I think as said there was an extension given of three months so they weren't late, but as they were due on 30 March you would as said assume that most of the work would have been done by then. Only thing that i would imagine that would change this late would be any issue around Going Concern due to Covid. 

 

The line about not obtaining information or explanations could be that they are unable to produce forecast or given assurances over where they can get funds if needed that the auditors are comfortable enough with to say they are a going concern.

 

As for accounting records i couldn't hazard a guess at what this could be. But its not something i have ever had included in any audit i have worked on, but then again its up to who ever signs the report to decided if it needs to be included. 

 

The limitation of work will more likely be due to the uncertainty around going concern and them not being given enough acceptable information to state they are a going concern. It wont be because they are a limited company and not a PLC as the even though the work undertaken is less than a PLC the limitation will just refer to the work the needed to undertake but couldn't.

 

This is making up for the reduced working hours due to covid 😄

Thanks. 

 

The accounting records thing intrigues me.  I can remember some pretty scary sets of Hearts accounts in years gone by but couldn't remember seeing anything like that statement.   Presumably audited accounts form part of the SFA licencing process, in which case Hamilton may be asked to clarify why the auditors felt that they needed to make that statement.  Oddly they didn't in the previous year which is the year that they had to report that they had been scammed out of £700k!

[TheBigO]

14 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Never thought I'd agree with Provan and Walker in same week. Link to article worth a read. 

 

 

Eeeewwww. I'm away for a shower

[annushorribilis III]

1 hour ago, Gilberts Fridge said:

 

@Footballfirst  Am I correct in thinking that these accounts were overdue. Given they were for the period up to the 30 June 2019 would they not have been due on the 30 March 2020. 

 

 

 

 

I would be more concerned about the statement that they have not obtained all information and explanations considered necessary for the purposes of the audit or were unable to determine whether adequate accounting records have been kept.

 

It may be there was lack off access because of Covid 19 but these accounts could have been drafted shortly after year end and finalised before January as per their 2018 submission.

 

I have run a business for four years and my accountant has direct access to my accounts via our accounting software. Our bank accounts direct feed into this software. Non of this is rocket science and I do not need to visit my accountant to submit our company tax return

 

 

Accountants - "you need to put a wee mention about potential liability from a potential court case in the accounts.

How much, did you say ?. OK, it can wait "

Edited May 27, 2020 by annushorribilis III

[true-jambo]

15 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Never thought I'd agree with Provan and Walker in same week. Link to article worth a read. 

 

 

Possibly a signal of how their employers view no Hearts in the Premier League

[HMFC01]

3 hours ago, Saughton Jambo said:

It’s farcical to say the least. Can you imagine the English premiership,  Seria A or La Liga, allowing clubs to come up with reconstruction plans? It’s the job for the SPFL to do this and not our chairman. She’s never going to please all the clubs. The SPFL should be directing this and stating that no clubs shall be relegated...period. It’s a dereliction of duty to allow one member club go cap in hand to all 42 member clubs and beg them to save 3 clubs in particular. Part of me wants to be saved via reconstruction. The other part of me says go for the jugular and you will reap what you sow. He’ll hath no fury like a (jambo) woman scorned! Scottish football has become a circus, ran by clowns for bigger clowns. Totally scunnered with this circus. 

 

👍👏  Yep she shouldn't have to reign this whole shambles in herself, that's what it looks like.  Not seen much from that Hamilton clown for a bit either, the guy that's meant to be sharing responsibility.  

[TheBigO]

4 minutes ago, true-jambo said:

Possibly a signal of how their employers view no Hearts in the Premier League

Aha. Excellent point.

 

Just as Jackson toes the Daily Record line, so do these two numbskulls, just happens to be in our favour here.

[Bazzas right boot]

11 hours ago, obua said:

I’m raging that Ann budge has been left to try and sort out this whole shitshow.

Doncaster and his cronies will be laughing like feck that they didn’t have to do what they are paid to do.Like do what is best for all their members , if it goes tits up now it’s all Hearts fault .

 

 

Yip, but also if in court- we tried our best while others done **** all. 

 

I honestly think this is just a due diligence exercise in prep for court. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Heartsmad1874]

Is that Lachlan Cameron for real? A 20 team Championship  talk about meaningless games.

[Boof]

3 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Is that Lachlan Cameron for real? A 20 team Championship  talk about meaningless games.

 

What if there's only 20 teams left standing who're able to make a start to playing in August?

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Is that Lachlan Cameron for real? A 20 team Championship  talk about meaningless games.

I think it’s a great idea tbh. The meaningless games stuff happens in nearly every top league. Scottish football has been trying to outclever itself for far too long. 

[Pasquale for King]

50 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

MOT's have been given an extention etc.  having accounts delayed wont kick Hamiltons troubles 3 month further down the road?  If they are in bother, they are in bother?  any bill could cause problems, certainly no fans will cause bother, and perhaps playing behind closed doors will be fatal?   perhaps a half season will too? Shame really!

I was more talking about Hibs really, Hamilton are run by a pair of crooks so I’m not that surprised that theirs were late. Hopefully nothing trivial though.

[Seymour M Hersh]

30 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Never thought I'd agree with Provan and Walker in same week. Link to article worth a read. 

 

 

 

One Andy Walker...there's only.......too soon? 

[Francis Albert]

36 minutes ago, His name is said:

 

Is there still an association of hearts supporters club? 

 

A statement from hearts fans saying they would consider not attending away games in the championship might open the eyes of some of these clubs.

there is big hearts supporters club with over 8000 or so members which I suspect has more influence and weight than the federation of bus conveners

[jamboinglasgow]

7 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Is that Lachlan Cameron for real? A 20 team Championship  talk about meaningless games.

 

Where is he saying this?

 

Would not mind a 20 team Championship.

[annushorribilis III]

Just now, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Where is he saying this?

 

Would not mind a 20 team Championship.

Absolutely no chance of completing a 38 game Championship next season - where would the money come from for all the testing, never mind paying players. 

[Bazzas right boot]

24 minutes ago, RENE said:

33 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Never thought I'd agree with Provan and Walker in same week. Link to article worth a read. 

 

I'm going to have to take a pill and lie down after that disclosure.

 

 

Andy, Andy give us a wave, 

Andy, give us a wave. 

 

 

[JamboGraham]

The social media on this has been entirely predictable so far. Few can get beyond the “save Hearts” element of the proposal.

 

However, if you remove that then every other point, issue and factor in the proposal still needs resolved. This is not just a “save Hearts”, or even simply reconstruction. This is a proposal for how Scottish football navigates this pandemic. 

 

The SPFL executive and board should have been producing this proposal (or an alternative to steer the SPFL through Covid). 10 weeks since football stopped, just over 8 weeks till the ‘big kick off’. No other idea, thought or suggestion of how football in this country might proceed has been tabled. Lots of talk about what can’t, won’t or might not happen though,

its pathetic.

 

If this is voted down then I hope that someone has a plan B. If there is no plan B then suddenly the victory of “sending Hearts down” will become very hollow, very quickly.

 

The SPFL clubs could be about to throw our club off a cliff without realising that their jacket is caught on our bag.

[Busby8]

3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

One Andy Walker...there's only.......too soon? 

 

Not read back through all the posts so it might have been discussed already, but am I missing something here ??

 

No more than 2 weeks ago, none of these clowns wanted a 14 team Premier, but now they do ??

WTF ?

[Heartsmad1874]

8 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Where is he saying this?

 

Would not mind a 20 team Championship.

At the bottom of Andy Walker's article, theres a video of Lachlan Cameron saying he doesn't like the idea of 14/16 no more than he likes the idea of 12. Also says best scenario is an 18 or 20 team Championship

Edited May 27, 2020 by Heartsmad1874

[Tasavallan]

I notice that this 14-14-14 suggestion is still being called "Hearts proposal" by the media rather than the proposal from the "SPFL Reconstruction Group".  This reduces the credence  of this proposal.

[Boof]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

One Andy Walker...there's only.......too soon? 

 

Aaaaaandy Walker - still a wanchor, still a wanchor...

[EH23-Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

One Andy Walker...there's only.......too soon? 

Hell yeah 🤣🤣🤣

[Hagar the Horrible]

16 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Is that Lachlan Cameron for real? A 20 team Championship  talk about meaningless games.

I think that would be great?  If there are only 20 clubs willing to start, then either 1 league of 20 or 2 x 10....no brainer

 

One thing Lachlan said that was the truth, Nobody will tune in to watch Ayr?

"Watching Ayr United via streaming? If you want to watch decent football, you're going to watch Liverpool or Manchester United or something, you're not going to tune every week to watch Ayr United. I'm just being honest.

 

But for the record I will tune into Hearts

[His name is]

Does anyone know when we're expecting the results of the vote?

[Captain Canada]

A 20 team championship is fantasy land when there will be about 4 teams in the lower leagues able to play without any fans from August. 

 

Hopefully nothing gets decided until the SPFL has met the government on Friday and there can be a vote based on the facts rather than ulterior motives. 

[David McCaig]

Do the lower divisions require a 9-3 SPL vote as well as 75% in Champ and Combined L1/L2 in order to be mothballed?

 

I am assuming that divisions can’t just unilaterally refuse to play football.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

I think that would be great?  If there are only 20 clubs willing to start, then either 1 league of 20 or 2 x 10....no brainer

 

One thing Lachlan said that was the truth, Nobody will tune in to watch Ayr?

"Watching Ayr United via streaming? If you want to watch decent football, you're going to watch Liverpool or Manchester United or something, you're not going to tune every week to watch Ayr United. I'm just being honest.

 

But for the record I will tune into Hearts

He actually has that so wrong. Yes, they won't get the part-timers but their hardcore will be craving games. The problem is they only have about 1,500 of them.

[Heartsmad1874]

1 minute ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

I think that would be great?  If there are only 20 clubs willing to start, then either 1 league of 20 or 2 x 10....no brainer

 

One thing Lachlan said that was the truth, Nobody will tune in to watch Ayr?

"Watching Ayr United via streaming? If you want to watch decent football, you're going to watch Liverpool or Manchester United or something, you're not going to tune every week to watch Ayr United. I'm just being honest.

 

But for the record I will tune into Hearts

Sounds great, but if this is behind closed doors for a while theres no way it will be viable to most of the Championship teams, Queen of the south for example only have 3 contracted players for next season! God knows where the income is to bring in more players without gate receipts and hospitality. The situation in the lower leagues is very grim indeed.

[David McCaig]

Just now, Captain Canada said:

A 20 team championship is fantasy land when there will be about 4 teams in the lower leagues able to play without any fans from August. 

 

Hopefully nothing gets decided until the SPFL has met the government on Friday and there can be a vote based on the facts rather than ulterior motives. 

And hopefully SG tells the SPFL to bolt, until they can show that they have done everything possible to look after all of their member clubs.

[hmfc_steve]

19 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think it’s a great idea tbh. The meaningless games stuff happens in nearly every top league. Scottish football has been trying to outclever itself for far too long. 

so do I ... all for it

[Beast Boy]

19 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think it’s a great idea tbh. The meaningless games stuff happens in nearly every top league. Scottish football has been trying to outclever itself for far too long. 

Couldn’t agree more. 

[annushorribilis III]

2 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

I think that would be great?  If there are only 20 clubs willing to start, then either 1 league of 20 or 2 x 10....no brainer

 

One thing Lachlan said that was the truth, Nobody will tune in to watch Ayr?

"Watching Ayr United via streaming? If you want to watch decent football, you're going to watch Liverpool or Manchester United or something, you're not going to tune every week to watch Ayr United. I'm just being honest.

 

But for the record I will tune into Hearts

If their own fans aren't interested in their own club why should they or any other club survive ?

Either clubs get creative and look at ways to generate revenues or they are going to go bust because their TV money won't enable them to see out more than a few months against a backdrop of reduced income but paying wages AND testing of £3-5 K per week ? 

[livi]

11 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Andy, Andy give us a wave, 

Andy, give us a wave. 

 

 

Slightly different to the time at Partick in the cup when he walked past the Hearts supporters on his way to the TV Studio  😍😍

 

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Sounds great, but if this is behind closed doors for a while theres no way it will be viable to most of the Championship teams, Queen of the south for example only have 3 contracted players for next season! God knows where the income is to bring in more players without gate receipts and hospitality. The situation in the lower leagues is very grim indeed.

In which case they play part-timers or amateurs.  Alternatively they drop down to a mothballed division.

 

It is completely unacceptable for clubs to proposing mothballing when clubs expelled to lower divisions are capable of playing.

[redjambo]

7 hours ago, Whatever said:

She didn’t need to mention the French case going to court and it being avoidable here but she chose to.

 

Mentioning the benefactors was, imo, a heads up that we can afford to take it to court. Mentioning the FOH recent numbers was, imo, a heads up that the fans demand she takes it to court.

 

She’d look mightily foolish if she backs down once her proposal fails.

 

I think and hope you’re well wide of the mark on this one.

 

3 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

If you’ve read the whole proposal then I think it’s clear - to me anyway - that we are going down the legal route if this fails. The mention of the benefactors was to should we have the means to take them to court, and the means to survive after it regardless of the result. My take on it is that the benefactors are effectively saying go for it.

 

I look forward to being wrong about this.

[hmfc_steve]

18 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Andy, Andy give us a wave, 

Andy, give us a wave. 

 

 

seem to remember ... andy ur an anchor .... at least it sounded like that  🙂

[redjambo]

35 minutes ago, true-jambo said:

Possibly a signal of how their employers view no Hearts in the Premier League

 

If they were supportive of the plans, and actively discouraged other options including the status quo, we would have reconstruction in 10 minutes flat. The key to the whole affair.

[Hagar the Horrible]

1 minute ago, annushorribilis III said:

If their own fans aren't interested in their own club why should they or any other club survive ?

Either clubs get creative and look at ways to generate revenues or they are going to go bust because their TV money won't enable them to see out more than a few months against a backdrop of reduced income but paying wages AND testing of £3-5 K per week ? 

This is why I think there will be only about 20 clubs max, willing to start next season?  Just for arguements sake,  How can we have a top 12, with 8 clubs made up of the best and last standing forming a second tier?  it will have to be one league of 20, or 2 of 10?  but equates to Dundee Utd not being promoted but St Mirrend and hamilton relegated too?  Plus that is only an assuption that all the top 12 can go on?

 

I can see the vote failing, we go to court, then clubs folding anyway and reconstrcution happening anyway, but with a sprinkling of bitterness, and some will fail even before the court case starts

[HMFC01]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Of more interest is the going concern warning from their auditors

 

 

They might find the lost accounts at Ladbrokes, in their overseas offices.

[colinmaroon]

1 minute ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

This is why I think there will be only about 20 clubs max, willing to start next season?  Just for arguements sake,  How can we have a top 12, with 8 clubs made up of the best and last standing forming a second tier?  it will have to be one league of 20, or 2 of 10?  but equates to Dundee Utd not being promoted but St Mirrend and hamilton relegated too?  Plus that is only an assuption that all the top 12 can go on?

 

I can see the vote failing, we go to court, then clubs folding anyway and reconstrcution happening anyway, but with a sprinkling of bitterness, and some will fail even before the court case starts

 

Bitterness against Hearts is given, as it has been with many clubs and certainly with the oxymorons that are the Scottish football authorities. 

 

 

[Drumelzier]

12 minutes ago, His name is said:

Does anyone know when we're expecting the results of the vote?

 

Is it not just an SPFL board meeting today to discuss the proposal ? That meeting is happening now.

[1874robbo]

The bitterness from fans of other clubs towards us I can understand and accept as the feelings mutual with me anyway, but the bitterness towards us from our msm has been an absolute joke.

i hope our club have long memories.

[Craig Herbertson]

Genuine question because my memory is going. Have the SPFL or the SFA set up a working party at any point to discuss  what would be best for Scottish football?

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, Drumelzier said:

 

Is it not just an SPFL board meeting today to discuss the proposal ? That meeting is happening now.

 

[Hairdryer]

Does anyone know if the sfa could step in and over rule the spfl 

as the future of the scottish game is in danger  of  survival 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

I'm semi confident this proposal may well move forward .

The championship view of 6 relegations seems weak and I doubt backed by all 10 teams .

I think hibs board have just enough sense to back it ,my thoughts if any two premiership clubs vote it down it will be st midden for self interest and Dundee united who said last time they were against any form of change at any time .so depends if celtic can strong arm them .

 

I dont think any club wants to go to court and I think they know that threats real .

 

It only needs 3 Championship clubs to vote against it which looks a certainty. It’s dead in the water, don’t even get your hopes up.  15 out of 20 in leagues 1 and 2 is a big ask too, especially when they still have no idea when their new season will start. If the Premiership is 9-3 it might have a chance but 11-1 is no chance. 
 

I just want it done and out the way so we can move on to legal proceedings.  I want Doncaster and McLennanin a court having to answer proper questions rather than their own questions or by a hand picked interviewer.  Let’s see them squealing like pigs.

[bigsuperslim1874]

Just now, Hairdryer said:

Does anyone know if the sfa could step in and over rule the spfl 

as the future of the scottish game is in danger  of  survival 

I think they can. I’m sure Petrie was asked about intervening when it was kicking off a few weeks ago and he said he would let SPFL sort it - not that he/SFA couldn’t.

[martoon]

28 minutes ago, Busby8 said:

 

Not read back through all the posts so it might have been discussed already, but am I missing something here ??

 

No more than 2 weeks ago, none of these clowns wanted a 14 team Premier, but now they do ??

WTF ?

 

Just a hunch but I think it has a lot to do with Celtic's potential quadtreble. If Hearts are expelled into the Championship, particularly if it's curtailed and/or mothballed, our further participation in this season's Cup is on the line. Could lead to it being unplayed and that is not what the asterisk bhoys want.

 

A reinstated Hearts guarantees the competition's completion whenever possible.