SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Gordon Ramsay]

41 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Stenhousemuir chairman on Sportsound basically saying reconstruction will be natural soon as clubs learn that they can’t play and the leagues are then separated as to who can and who can’t.

 

Ah the guy who rubbished Ann's proposal. 

 

Hope his shitty wee club go bust. 

 

Dick. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Gordon Ramsay

[husref musemic]

1 hour ago, Deevers said:

The bad blood is there now. If we do land up playing against the prize plooks I hope the away end is empty at their grounds when we are there. 

every single supporter has their own responsibility in encouraging others to boycott.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

Ah the guy who rubbished Ann's proposal. 

 

Hope his shitty wee club go bust. 

 

*****. 

Who would even notice? Waste of time these pishy wee clubs. 

[Gordon Ramsay]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Who would even notice? Waste of time these pishy wee clubs. 

 

It's becoming more and more clear how pointless all these wee clubs are. Hope they all rot. 

[OTT]

23 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Clyde fans making a bit of noise on Twitter about being unfairly 'relegated'. The premise being that they would be denied matches against Falkirk and Partick.

 

Perhaps the fairest solution is to regionalise the two leagues below the Premiership? North/South, East/West whatever works. Then the clubs get more income longer term from more local derbies, there travel costs are reduced etc. Both leagues could be effectively tier 2 (one league below the top with promotion to the premiership) with the Champions from each being promoted to the Premiership?

 

2 good seasons and they could be playing premiership football against Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen.

 

The shortsightedness here is breathtaking. There seems to be a lot of non-premiership clubs that appear broadly similar in size. Accies could be swapped out for numerous clubs like Dunfermline, Partick, Dundee, Inverness (the list goes on). Point is that its within most clubs capabilities to reach the top flight with a bit of good planning and luck.  

 

If Clyde had some ambition they could potentially climb to the top flight rather quickly. IMO this vote should be a no brainer and some sort of ironclad commitment needs to be given that it will be given serious and legitimate thought to being made permanent, not just the lip service which has become clear is a feature of the voting 'system'. 

[Beast Boy]

51 minutes ago, Hairdryer said:

Does anyone know if the sfa could step in and over rule the spfl 

as the future of the scottish game is in danger  of  survival 

No, because Lawwell has already told the SFA they have no jurisdiction over the big clubs, and that they should just concentrate on the wee clubs:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/43016452

[Benny Factor]

All these clubs that wanted the season ended citing the amount of players that would be out of contract past May/June(and indeed, some have already announced that they're left/or will be left with a handful of players)

 

With no income from gate receipts, where are these clubs going to find the money to sign new players to enable them to START the new season?????

 

 

[Scnorthedinburgh]

7 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

They'll play the remaining cup matches regardless of which league we're in.

The cup will be dropped, far to many issues if they insist on waiting until fans can get into the games.

Players eligible to play in the semi and final have to have been registered a long time ago. Squads will be totaly differnt by the time of the game, with players registered in the summer window.

So big change in cup rules, or you can't use all your current squad.

I know they don't care about rules but teams have been booted out for players registration issues before, we can't continue just changing rules mid competition.

 

[Shanks]

My preference would be for reconstruction to fail and for us to take them all to court.  Don’t even care if we win the court case or not but will just be happy to see all these loser clubs go bust.  Hearts will still be here whenever we play again.

[Gordon Ramsay]

4 minutes ago, Shanks said:

My preference would be for reconstruction to fail and for us to take them all to court.  Don’t even care if we win the court case or not but will just be happy to see all these loser clubs go bust.  Hearts will still be here whenever we play again.

 

I'm actually leaning towards this now too. 

 

I do enjoy the demise of others.

[Nookie Bear]

4 minutes ago, EarnockJambo said:

All these clubs that wanted the season ended citing the amount of players that would be out of contract past May/June(and indeed, some have already announced that they're left/or will be left with a handful of players)

 

With no income from gate receipts, where are these clubs going to find the money to sign new players to enable them to START the new season?????

 

 

 

Are clubs allowed to employ players on an amateur basis? Or they can pay them a nominal sum?

[vegas-voss]

14 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

Starting to think reconstruction is pointless because only the Premiership sides can afford to play behind closed doors and stump up the £4000 a week required for testing - so whether you have three leagues of 14 or 10 leagues of four and a wee bit (see what I did there?) it's academic. The lower leagues, however you divvy them up, can't afford to play without paying customers and there ain't going to be any of those for the rest of the year.

So basically we are ****ed because nobody else can play

[HMFC01]

43 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

That statement is wrong - the 19/20 season is not "on hold". 

 

Of course it's not it's ended 😄   I didn't even notice that statement I was just having a fly dig at Hamilton. 

[OldGorgie]

17 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

And they only gave her that gig because she’s a big, “Hubs” fan. 

I prefer Lennon’s  description of her.

[Scnorthedinburgh]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Are clubs allowed to employ players on an amateur basis? Or they can pay them a nominal sum?

Think employment rules would follow national rules, it's the registration as a player for your club that controls who he can play for. And limits clubs you can join in a season.

[Anything2]

2 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

2 good seasons and they could be playing premiership football against Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen.

 

The shortsightedness here is breathtaking. There seems to be a lot of non-premiership clubs that appear broadly similar in size. Accies could be swapped out for numerous clubs like Dunfermline, Partick, Dundee, Inverness (the list goes on). Point is that its within most clubs capabilities to reach the top flight with a bit of good planning and luck.  

 

If Clyde had some ambition they could potentially climb to the top flight rather quickly. IMO this vote should be a no brainer and some sort of ironclad commitment needs to be given that it will be given serious and legitimate thought to being made permanent, not just the lip service which has become clear is a feature of the voting 'system'. 

This is one of the big problems with the league and the reason some people think we have too many teams. There is a sizable group of teams who have no intention of making progress, but they still want their share of the sponsorship money. Over time I hope that the pyramid system will weed out these clubs but it will take time with only 1 up and they need to win a playoff as well. But Cove have shown you can progress quickly with the right backing and Edinburgh City took a couple of seasons to find their feet and now look like a strong playoff contender. Neither were in danger of going back down and East Stirling and Berwick Rangers haven't bounced straight back so it shows that that other pyramid teams could compete as well. 

[ShedBoy]

9 minutes ago, Shanks said:

My preference would be for reconstruction to fail and for us to take them all to court.  Don’t even care if we win the court case or not but will just be happy to see all these loser clubs go bust.  Hearts will still be here whenever we play again.

 

My thoughts EXACTLY

[jamboman9]

10 minutes ago, Shanks said:

My preference would be for reconstruction to fail and for us to take them all to court.  Don’t even care if we win the court case or not but will just be happy to see all these loser clubs go bust.  Hearts will still be here whenever we play again.

A more satisfying scenario indeed.

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

So basically we are ****ed because nobody else can play

 

Yes.   This seems to be Scottish Football's genius plan to get through the crisis... prevent as many viable teams from playing as possible.   

[Nookie Bear]

7 minutes ago, Scnorthedinburgh said:

Think employment rules would follow national rules, it's the registration as a player for your club that controls who he can play for. And limits clubs you can join in a season.

 

But surely a Championship club can recruit players on a non-professional basis or pay them a nominal sum to ensure they can put together a First XI each week.

 

Like, QotS could recruit players for £100/wk (they would need to be part-time) but at least it would enable them to keep playing until such time that fans can return.

 

It may seemunfair when we could potentiall be paying 100s x these sums, but no less fair than the what celtic can pay compared to Hamilton.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Nookie Bear

[Jamboelite]

10 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

So basically we are ****ed because nobody else can play

Strengthens our legal case.

 

Restriction of trade.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Jamboelite

[MCW1976]

27 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

We might see some sanity breaking out : Top clubs basically telling lower league clubs, vote this through, get your shit in order or you won't even get the TV money. It seems crazy to think member clubs will allow TV money to be paid out to clubs who have no prospect of seeing out the season while allowing them to dictate.  

 

I keep thinking of the law of unintended consequences. 

Yes, it might even come down to the O/F (if they think Ann’s proposal is the best possible solution) giving lower clubs a ‘bit of advice’ on their stance?

[MCW1976]

12 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Are clubs allowed to employ players on an amateur basis? Or they can pay them a nominal sum?

QPFC

[Scnorthedinburgh]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

But surely a Championship club can recruit players on a non-professional basis or pay them a nominal sum to ensure they can put together a First XI each week.

 

Like, QotS could recruit players for £100/wk (they would need to be part-time) but at least it would enable them to keep playing until such time that fans can return.

They could, but once registered to QOS that limits what they can then do.

Works if the player is up for it.

I meant the player can't be at QOS for 3 months, they have no cash so let him go. He goes to Allow for 3 months and they run out of cash. He then couldn't register for another club no matter the deal, think 2 clubs is the limit might be 3.

[redjambo]

49 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

Clyde fans making a bit of noise on Twitter about being unfairly 'relegated'. The premise being that they would be denied matches against Falkirk and Partick.

 

Perhaps the fairest solution is to regionalise the two leagues below the Premiership? North/South, East/West whatever works. Then the clubs get more income longer term from more local derbies, there travel costs are reduced etc. Both leagues could be effectively tier 2 (one league below the top with promotion to the premiership) with the Champions from each being promoted to the Premiership?

 

I assume that Brechin would be allowed to enter the regional league of their choice.

[Footballfirst]

3 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

United in trouble too,wouldn't be surprised if St johnstone were to follow soon.

 

2 hours ago, Jamboelite said:

United were losing heavily being in the Championship and had over extended that i do know from people at United.

Dundee and Dundee United have the worst financial positions in terms of net liabilities in the SPFL.

 

Dundee has a net liabilities position of £-2.58m, with United only marginally better at £-2.27m.

 

A significant difference between the clubs is that Dundee doesn't own its stadium, so United's liabilities have more than wiped out the £4.5m asset value of Tannadice.  United lost £3.7m in 2018/19 and the current year is unlikely to be much better as they gambled further cash in order to win promotion.  Such extravagance will ultimately have its consequences. 

[queensferryjambo]

13 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

So basically we are ****ed because nobody else can play

 

Yes.

 

You couldn't make it up. Unfairly relegate us then allow the next season to be dictated by teams who can't field teams thus punishing us again.

 

The people who run our game are ****ing clueless.

 

[Victorian]

This is just about saving Hearts.

 

Aye that's part of it but it's about helping many more.   Besides,   look at all the things we have and can bring to the game.   We're viable,   profitable,   have tens of thousands of supporters,   a big stadium we can offer the use of,   covid ready duplicate changing rooms and other facilities,   testing arrangements we can offer the use of.

 

Nut it's just about saving Hearts.

 

But others cannot afford to operate.   We can.    We're demonstrably viable for years ahead.    Others are in a perilous position.

 

Nut it's just about saving Hearts.

[SpikeDudley]

all these clubs in trouble?
But what happened to the oh so necessary prize money, that could only be distributed once Celtic were awarded a title that they hadn't won?

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, SpikeDudley said:

all these clubs in trouble?
But what happened to the oh so necessary prize money, that could only be distributed once Celtic were awarded a title that they hadn't won?

 

Money disbursed and likely now lost from the game.

 

A viability study might have been handy.

[David McCaig]

21 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Are clubs allowed to employ players on an amateur basis? Or they can pay them a nominal sum?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35950297

[Biffa Bacon]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I assume that Brechin would be allowed to enter the regional league of their choice.

They were due to be in the highland zone, until some robust chat, including veiled threats with lowland league, changed that decision.

[WheatfieldWarrior]

46 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

To expand out my earlier Idea you could have a 14 team premiership, this seasons participants plus Dundee United and ICT. Below that you could have a 14 team Championship West and a 14 Team Championship East:

 

Championship East:

 

Dundee

Arbroath

Dunfermline

Alloa

Raith

Montrose

East Fife

Peterhead

Forfar

Cove

Edinburgh

Elgin

Cowdenbeath

Brechin

 

Championship West

 

Ayr

Morton

Queen of the South

Partick Thistle

Falkirk

Airdrie

Dumbarton

Clyde

Stranraer

Queen's Park

Stirling Albion

Annan Athletic

Stenhousemuir

Albion Rovers

 

Winners from each division gets one of two relegation places in the Premiership or you could potentially have the two champions play off for automatic promotion with the loser facing the 2nd bottom team in the Premiership in another playoff for the 2nd place.

 

Stick Hibs in championship East, but otherwise good.

 

[Biffa Bacon]

32 minutes ago, EarnockJambo said:

All these clubs that wanted the season ended citing the amount of players that would be out of contract past May/June(and indeed, some have already announced that they're left/or will be left with a handful of players)

 

With no income from gate receipts, where are these clubs going to find the money to sign new players to enable them to START the new season?????

 

 

Also any furloughed staff would have to be back on the pay roll as soon as they were asked to work, this includes training for footballers, or sending an email for office staff.

[HMFC01]

49 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

To expand out my earlier Idea you could have a 14 team premiership, this seasons participants plus Dundee United and ICT. Below that you could have a 14 team Championship West and a 14 Team Championship East:

 

Championship East:

 

Dundee

Arbroath

Dunfermline

Alloa

Raith

Montrose

East Fife

Peterhead

Forfar

Cove

Edinburgh

Elgin

Cowdenbeath

Brechin

 

Championship West

 

Ayr

Morton

Queen of the South

Partick Thistle

Falkirk

Airdrie

Dumbarton

Clyde

Stranraer

Queen's Park

Stirling Albion

Annan Athletic

Stenhousemuir

Albion Rovers

 

Winners from each division gets one of two relegation places in the Premiership or you could potentially have the two champions play off for automatic promotion with the loser facing the 2nd bottom team in the Premiership in another playoff for the 2nd place.

That's an interesting proposal you've spun out there, I think it's a good idea.  Well done.  I like the idea.

[1874robbo]

47 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

And they only gave her that gig because she’s a big, “Hubs” fan. 

Rangers fan 

[hmfc_steve]

12 minutes ago, SpikeDudley said:

all these clubs in trouble?
But what happened to the oh so necessary prize money, that could only be distributed once Celtic were awarded a title that they hadn't won?

it was all a carve up right from the beginning

[martoon]

44 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

How can they if the championship doesn’t start till January. We can’t be expected to recruit, train and prepare a squad while pulling players out of furlough for potentially 1 game. 

 

That's exactly what I thought. No way can we be expelled into a mothballed/truncated Championship yet be expected to play 2 Cup ties in the middle of inactivity. 

[Last Laff]

16 minutes ago, SpikeDudley said:

all these clubs in trouble?
But what happened to the oh so necessary prize money, that could only be distributed once Celtic were awarded a title that they hadn't won?

There’s no evidence any clubs are in trouble. 

[Pasquale for King]

53 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

To expand out my earlier Idea you could have a 14 team premiership, this seasons participants plus Dundee United and ICT. Below that you could have a 14 team Championship West and a 14 Team Championship East:

 

Championship East:

 

Dundee

Arbroath

Dunfermline

Alloa

Raith

Montrose

East Fife

Peterhead

Forfar

Cove

Edinburgh

Elgin

Cowdenbeath

Brechin

 

Championship West

 

Ayr

Morton

Queen of the South

Partick Thistle

Falkirk

Airdrie

Dumbarton

Clyde

Stranraer

Queen's Park

Stirling Albion

Annan Athletic

Stenhousemuir

Albion Rovers

 

Winners from each division gets one of two relegation places in the Premiership or you could potentially have the two champions play off for automatic promotion with the loser facing the 2nd bottom team in the Premiership in another playoff for the 2nd place.

It’s a great idea, even if there is a limited crowd going to games travelling will be an issue. Once again someone on here has shown a level of outside the box thinking that the people who run the game lack.

[Ethan Hunt]

5 hours ago, Victorian said:

So it's looking like as I predicted.    It will be scuppered in the lower leagues by clubs who :

 

1.    Cannot afford to play matches next season.

2.    Will most likely be out of business in the future.

 

Essentially we're going to be dragged down by clubs on death row.    On the premise of a fantasy that they'll even be here in a year's time.

 

Legal action probably doesn't faze these ***** because they're virtually extinct anyway.    They have nothing to lose.

Looking like it.

[Debut 4]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s a great idea, even if there is a limited crowd going to games travelling will be an issue. Once again someone on here has shown a level of outside the box thinking that the people who run the game lack.

It’s frightening. The authorities are so much out their depth and completely incompetent. 
 

However, a huge part is they are simply not interested for numerous reasons done to death, but one is not being interested in a bit hard work or using brain cells.(if they have any)

[brunoatemyhamster]

1 hour ago, Martin_T said:

To expand out my earlier Idea you could have a 14 team premiership, this seasons participants plus Dundee United and ICT. Below that you could have a 14 team Championship West and a 14 Team Championship East:

 

Championship East:

 

Dundee

Arbroath

Dunfermline

Alloa

Raith

Montrose

East Fife

Peterhead

Forfar

Cove

Edinburgh

Elgin

Cowdenbeath

Brechin

 

Championship West

 

Ayr

Morton

Queen of the South

Partick Thistle

Falkirk

Airdrie

Dumbarton

Clyde

Stranraer

Queen's Park

Stirling Albion

Annan Athletic

Stenhousemuir

Albion Rovers

 

Winners from each division gets one of two relegation places in the Premiership or you could potentially have the two champions play off for automatic promotion with the loser facing the 2nd bottom team in the Premiership in another playoff for the 2nd place.

See how easy it is to come up with amazing ideas?

Give yourself a 360k pay rise. 

You've worked harder than Doncaster.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by brunoatemyhamster

[Pasquale for King]

54 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

Starting to think reconstruction is pointless because only the Premiership sides can afford to play behind closed doors and stump up the £4000 a week required for testing - so whether you have three leagues of 14 or 10 leagues of four and a wee bit (see what I did there?) it's academic. The lower leagues, however you divvy them up, can't afford to play without paying customers and there ain't going to be any of those for the rest of the year.

I think Budge covered that by saying bigger clubs could help out, with their grounds and I would hope we look at loaning players out to the clubs who voted No to relegating us. You could even have a rule where the top teams loan at least two players out, we must’ve had at least a dozen out last season (Cochrane/Macdonald/Lee/Wighton/Smith/Baur/Maclean/Berra/Hamilton off the top of my head).

Edited May 27, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s frightening. The authorities are so much out their depth and completely incompetent. 
 

However, a huge part is they are simply not interested for numerous reasons done to death, but one is not being interested in a bit hard work or using brain cells.(if they have any)

Indeed, keep everything the same as it works for the two most important teams.

[Ethan Hunt]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

QCs are lawyers. Well paid ones.

I am well aware of what a QC is and what level of experience they require to have in dealing with extremely complex cases.  So, as I said, I’d rather have legal opinion from a QC rather than a lawyer.

 

Now, you evaded my question. In what way was the legal opinion of two QC’s, one junior and one senior, not very convincing?  

[Siphiwe Tshabalala]

Hamilton about to go bust?

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s frightening. The authorities are so much out their depth and completely incompetent. 
 

However, a huge part is they are simply not interested for numerous reasons done to death, but one is not being interested in a bit hard work or using brain cells.(if they have any)

 Debatable which is more out of depth on the Coronavirus emergency ... SPFL authorities or the UK government.

[Pasquale for King]

48 minutes ago, EarnockJambo said:

All these clubs that wanted the season ended citing the amount of players that would be out of contract past May/June(and indeed, some have already announced that they're left/or will be left with a handful of players)

 

With no income from gate receipts, where are these clubs going to find the money to sign new players to enable them to START the new season?????

 

 

The thing I about argued with a few folk on twitter was that it’s the same every summer, if they have the usual ST money then what’s changed? The loss of 4/5 home games might’ve meant other income was used to pay players.

[Newton51]

Are we expecting an update today?