SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

If you want to see the mentality we are dealing with here go to the comments section on the article on the bbc website. 

Yep, the congenitally thick are out to play there. Pathetic.

[David McCaig]

I'm assuming that Neil.Doncaster will be informing every club of their potential bill on a £5m compensation claim or £7m Sky rebate.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

 

BBC Sport article says “For Hearts' 14-14-14 plan to pass, it would require nine of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, along with eight in the Championship and 15 across Leagues One and Two.“

 

Still digesting the whole proposal but I thought if more teams were added and prize money split more ways it was an 11-1 vote?

[Jambo314]

11 minutes ago, true-jambo said:

Couple of points from a quick read

1. The level of compensation we would be seeking without the Covid 19 effect of no football would be £3 to £4 million. As is pointed out in the document, this has not been plucked from thin air but is our submission to UEFA for Financial fair play. So that is a realistic number

2. Does the changes to the distribution of prize money change the Premier League voting requirement from 11-1 to 9-3?

Not sure if this post from FF forum is correct but read this a few days ago?

 

A change to the League structure that involves a variation, up or down, from the 42 club figure or which involves a redistribution of the prize money - requires 90% approval from the Premiership clubs (11-1). It is classed as a Qualified Resolution. And 75% approval in each of the other two voting blocks.

However, any change that sees the number of clubs remain at 42 - however they are structured - and requires no change in the prize money would be deemed an Ordinary Resolution or a Members Resolution. As such it would require 75% approval from Premiership clubs, 75% approval from Championship clubs and 75% approval from the combined League 1/2 clubs.

Same as the Rangers Members Resolution recently.

If the clubs agree on a reconstruction model that sees the total number of clubs remain at 42 and no changes to the prize money distribution then it only requires the 75% approval from each of the three voting blocks.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

If you want to see the mentality we are dealing with here go to the comments section on the article on the bbc website. 

 

Is it hunners of people all posting out of self-interest and loyalty to their own clubs and at the same time slating Hearts for acting out of self interest?

[Jambo66]

15 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

It’s far better than the farce we have now where you can play 18 home games and 20 away or face 3 trips to Ibrox or Parkhead.

 

Don’t know if I missed this - do Cove still go up?  I’m assuming they do.  That would mean Stranraer and 4 others get demoted to the bottom tier to play the really pish teams.   Or Cove plus Edinburgh City meaning 6 go down?  Or no promotion from League 2?  Bugger, I’ll need to read that again!
 

A lot of work has clearly gone into this and there’s a lot of good proposals but I’m afraid it still has no chance of getting the required votes.  If I’ve understood the model for pay outs correctly I think we still need 11 votes in the Premiership and Dempster will be under huge pressure from their fans not to cave in. 
 

If nothing else, it will get us closer to legal action.  

If it gets rejected, I'm pretty chilled. As I have posted many times, I think we have every chance of winning in a court action. If there was any doubt at all that we might not have the balls to raise an action, that has been put to bed once and for all now.

[AHS51]

And so it begins.....

 

Robert Grieve and Robert Thomson trying to create the narrative of it being a to save hearts resolution. Just focusing on the "SPL needs Hearts" angle. Blatantly not read Anns proposal properly. It's not just our governing bodies that hold back the game is this county but our press are just as much to blame. 

[Riccarton3]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

If you want to see the mentality we are dealing with here go to the comments section on the article on the bbc website. 

No thanks

[Hungry hippo]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

She’s made an error with the Premiership needs Hearts stuff I’m afraid. Daft thing to say. Will harden some opinion against us.

 

That was the one thing I was surprised with. I wonder if this is in there to perhaps infer that Sky want us in the league.

 

Could be wrong though and may just be an attempt to appear transparent given that is clearly the main reason for our concerns.

[Byyy The Light]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

If you want to see the mentality we are dealing with here go to the comments section on the article on the bbc website. 

Wish I hadn’t taken your advice. I’ve got the rage.

 

Hope it’s voted out and the whole thing burns. 

[Montgomery Brewster]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

If you want to see the mentality we are dealing with here go to the comments section on the article on the bbc website. 

The classic quote  from doods1875. 
 

a verminous bellend. That club have no shame. The original sevco - stealing trophies  from a dead club. 

[The Future's Maroon]

Brilliant Ann, massive well done from me 👏👏👏👏👏👏

 

(annoys me the amount of folk who don’t spell her name right)!

The main point here is that is one hell of a well thought out and rational proposition to all clubs.

 

There is a few hints of threats too what could come if knocked back.

 

I expected a good proposal but that blew it out the water for me....

 

Lets see what club statements follow, get the ‘feck them’ list ready.

 

And of course the amount of rare/new/sleeper posters appearing in the next 24hrs (they have started already).

 

Interesting next 24/48hrs.

[Jambo66]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

She’s made an error with the Premiership needs Hearts stuff I’m afraid. Daft thing to say. Will harden some opinion against us.

I think she's daring them to vote against. I don't think shitty little teams like Hamilton or St Mirren have the bottle.

 

If they do, we'll see them in court.

[gashauskis9]

5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

She’s made an error with the Premiership needs Hearts stuff I’m afraid. Daft thing to say. Will harden some opinion against us.

Or confirm the reality.

[Nookie Bear]

9 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

 

It shouldn't have mentioned Hearts at all. One of the central arguments of the proposal is about sporting fairness, but that gets obscured by the "Premiership needs Hearts..." stuff. The size of the clubs involved should be irrelevant to that argument.

 

I can see people drawing (inappropriate) comparison to the Rangers situation in 2012 because of the language used. St Mirren, Ross County, etc. will vote against citing this as their reasoning.

 

I have to say that the only negative from the statement is putting Hearts so prominently in it - the proposals are perfectly good, and selfless when it comes to sharing our facilities but yoy just know the overwhelming feeling amongst other clubs is to say "Aye, you would say that in your position"

[true-jambo]

4 minutes ago, Jambo314 said:

Not sure if this post from FF forum is correct but read this a few days ago?

 

A change to the League structure that involves a variation, up or down, from the 42 club figure or which involves a redistribution of the prize money - requires 90% approval from the Premiership clubs (11-1). It is classed as a Qualified Resolution. And 75% approval in each of the other two voting blocks.

However, any change that sees the number of clubs remain at 42 - however they are structured - and requires no change in the prize money would be deemed an Ordinary Resolution or a Members Resolution. As such it would require 75% approval from Premiership clubs, 75% approval from Championship clubs and 75% approval from the combined League 1/2 clubs.

Same as the Rangers Members Resolution recently.

If the clubs agree on a reconstruction model that sees the total number of clubs remain at 42 and no changes to the prize money distribution then it only requires the 75% approval from each of the three voting blocks.

Thanks for this, I now see the BBC are saying 9-3

[Heartsmad1874]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Still digesting the whole proposal but I thought if more teams were added and prize money split more ways it was an 11-1 vote?

Was a bit surprised to see it myself but BBC claims its 9 out of 12 required,  however 11 out of 12 is required if the members want to include Kelty and Brora.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52813339

[Fozzyonthefence]

29 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

I reckon this will comfortably get voted through in both the Championship and League 1/2.  Unfortunately it has no chance in the Premiership as Hibs and St.Mirren will vote no.  

I’m not so sure about the the lower League 1 teams who will see themselves as being relegated, including Stranraer who were supposed to be one of the 3 grand that needed saving.  But as these may all be teams that can’t afford to play until fans are allowed back, who knows?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

Or confirm the reality.

The Premiership know that they suffer without us. They’ll take a hit on gate receipts. But they relegated us anyway

[Nookie Bear]

4 minutes ago, AHS51 said:

And so it begins.....

 

Robert Grieve and Robert Thomson trying to create the narrative of it being a to save hearts resolution. Just focusing on the "SPL needs Hearts" angle. Blatantly not read Anns proposal properly. It's not just our governing bodies that hold back the game is this county but our press are just as much to blame. 

 

Yep.

 

Okay then, the SPL doesn't need Hearts, we get it. Just cough up the millions in compensation and we will move on...

[HMFC01]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

What a brilliant statement and seems to cover everything, can’t see many negatives at all.

 

It was so good I am considering getting it framed.   No joke.

 

I enjoyed every bit of it until the part about having 40 games a season per division possibly.  Flexibility is the key with understanding, I am sure something could be amended somewhere to make it workable.

 

Brilliant just brilliant.

[JimmyCant]

5 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

@Hagar the Horrible

 

Not quoting your post as i don't want to clog up the pages, but that is a belter of a post. Have a Skol on me.

 

 

 

 

Best post on the thread by a distance and probably one of the best pieces written about this mess anywhere. Everyone should read it and doth a cap

[Riccarton3]

12 minutes ago, AHS51 said:

And so it begins.....

 

Robert Grieve and Robert Thomson trying to create the narrative of it being a to save hearts resolution. Just focusing on the "SPL needs Hearts" angle. Blatantly not read Anns proposal properly. It's not just our governing bodies that hold back the game is this county but our press are just as much to blame. 

Well, I don't go along with the top league needs Hearts either. If she stated that I can't see any context that it wouldn't piss people off. 

 

Ironically, a similar contention from 2012 that the press would do what they do best with as it concerned Rangers: play dumb.

 

Roll up. Roll up to a world of hypocrisy and rancour

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Riccarton3

[true-jambo]

16 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

 

BBC Sport article says “For Hearts' 14-14-14 plan to pass, it would require nine of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, along with eight in the Championship and 15 across Leagues One and Two.“

Cheers mate I've now read that and if true could be big

[Jambo66]

To put the threat of court action into context, it is clear that we would be looking for more than £3m in compensation. The prize money paid to Celtic this season was £3.35m.

 

Obviously, they wouldn't have to pay all of it themselves, but it shows just how much is at stake here.

[Diadora Van Basten]

Bit disappointed that Ann hasn’t tried to get Brora and Kelty into the leagues as both are far more deserving than Brechin.

 

We are most likely going to fail anyway so we might as well do the right thing rather than play politics.

[true-jambo]

Just now, Riccarton3 said:

Well, I don't go along with the top league needs Hearts either. If she stated that I can't see any context that it wouldn't piss people off. 

 

Ironically, a contention from 2012 that the press would do what they do best with as it concerned Rangers: play dumb.

 

Roll up. Roll up to a world of hypocrisy and rancour

 

 

She is saying the top league needs Hearts more than the championship does, and that the championship need Patrick more than Division 1. Or put another way the best way to protect Scottish football for the future at this time of crisis is by keeping clubs at a level they can best contribute to that aim.

[Diadora Van Basten]

I don’t think Ann should have been the person driving the issue for the very reason as she has a conflict of interests and is open to the charge that this is just about saving Hearts.

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

 

It was so good I am considering getting it framed.   No joke.

 

I enjoyed every bit of it until the part about having 40 games a season per division possibly.  Flexibility is the key with understanding, I am sure something could be amended somewhere to make it workable.

 

Brilliant just brilliant.

It’s covered everything, even nicked a few things that Dumpster and her group looking at how we get games started again would no doubt be saying 😃

[Victorian]

If Premiership clubs believe it has a chance of succeeding,   they might not want to be an outlier to be identified and later subject to being boycotted by Hearts fans.    If they are concerned by the threat of damaging legal action,   they might not want to be a club responsible for it happening.    If they are talking to each other,    undoubtedly they will be,   this could cause a snowballing effect in our favour.

 

Personally,   I have more doubts about the other divisions.    A LOT more stupidity resides in the lower divisions.    Much more unpredictable.

[ramrod]

The end of the day she's gave it a good try .If Scottish football wants to take the petty bitter route then there's not much else we can do about it . 

Get the vote done and dusted then move onto the legal route . 

 

[Randy Marsh]

2 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Bit disappointed that Ann hasn’t tried to get Brora and Kelty into the leagues as both are far more deserving than Brechin.

 

We are most likely going to fail anyway so we might as well do the right thing rather than play politics.

 

It looks like omitting them into the league would require a change in the vote.  It would be 11-1 in the Premiership if this had been included in the proposal.  A 9-3 at least gives this a chance of getting voted through so there is no way she could risk this.

[FWJ]

47 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Two points:

 

1. Has this been hand delivered or is there a chance it could get "lost" in the spam folder?

2. There is enough in there to actually cause Willie Millers head to explode!!!

 

Great paper which no right minded person with a real concern for the future of Scottish football can reasonably argue with.  

Willie Miller will be having it explained to him in words of one syllable.

If AFC are for it,  he will be too.  Pretty sure I remember a volte face in his attitude re the Dundee vote when the Aberdeen chairman expressed concerns.

[Walter Bishop]

Would love to know who the benefactors are? 

[jambo2524]

The reconstruction side was relatively obvious from the outset as the baseline is fairness in unique circumstances. This has been extremely well thought through. The dilemma was to focus on the reconstruction or to personalise it with the ‘Hearts story’ within the reconstruction.
Including that part although extremely well presented from an HMFC perspective will IMO probably be seen as a negative.

For the good of Scottish football

I hope I am wrong. Good luck Mrs B and well done.

Pledge increased today and 4 season tickets tomorrow.

Stay safe all.

[Beast Boy]

10 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The Premiership know that they suffer without us. They’ll take a hit on gate receipts. But they relegated us anyway

This is ignoring the magnitude of what’s coming though. This is no longer about a few quid in gate receipts, or who deserves to go down. It’s about the cast iron certainty that unless we do something and get everyone pulling in the same direction, clubs are going to go to the wall. 
 

 

[soonbe110]

35 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

It’s far better than the farce we have now where you can play 18 home games and 20 away or face 3 trips to Ibrox or Parkhead.

 

Don’t know if I missed this - do Cove still go up?  I’m assuming they do.  That would mean Stranraer and 4 others get demoted to the bottom tier to play the really pish teams.   Or Cove plus Edinburgh City meaning 6 go down?  Or no promotion from League 2?  Bugger, I’ll need to read that again!
 

A lot of work has clearly gone into this and there’s a lot of good proposals but I’m afraid it still has no chance of getting the required votes.  If I’ve understood the model for pay outs correctly I think we still need 11 votes in the Premiership and Dempster will be under huge pressure from their fans not to cave in. 
 

If nothing else, it will get us closer to legal action.  

No change to payouts other than clubs 13 and 14 getting more because in top league. But that will be paid out of parachute payments that we won’t need to receive. That means it’s 75% support required to pass. 

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, ramrod said:

The end of the day she's gave it a good try .If Scottish football wants to take the petty bitter route then there's not much else we can do about it . 

Get the vote done and dusted then move onto the legal route . 

 

How I see it. She has tried her very best with this. If it’s the legal route then I’m pretty sure the expense involved in settling this will see quite a few clubs going to the wall. 

[Beast Boy]

Going to go against the grain here. If it really is 75% needed, then this is as good as already passed imo. No way four clubs are voting against that.

[AHS51]

4 minutes ago, true-jambo said:

She is saying the top league needs Hearts more than the championship does, and that the championship need Patrick more than Division 1. Or put another way the best way to protect Scottish football for the future at this time of crisis is by keeping clubs at a level they can best contribute to that aim.

 

Yeah agreed, think there was a bit more context behind the "premiership needs hearts" quote but it's an angle our press will go for to appease the morons

[Walter Bishop]

Just now, Special Officer Doofy said:

Going to go against the grain here. If it really is 75% needed, then this is as good as already passed imo. No way four clubs are voting against that.

Ross County, Hamilton, St Mirren, St Johnstone and Hibs will. 

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

1 minute ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I don’t think Ann should have been the person driving the issue for the very reason as she has a conflict of interests and is open to the charge that this is just about saving Hearts.

It should have been the SPFL board

[Victorian]

Just now, Special Officer Doofy said:

Going to go against the grain here. If it really is 75% needed, then this is as good as already passed imo. No way four clubs are voting against that.

 

Probably because clubs will realise they need to vote on the winning side now.    That factor alone may cause a potentially lost vote to carry.     The other divisions are more unpredictable.

[The Internet]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

Ross County, Hamilton, St Mirren, St Johnstone and Hibs will. 

 

Is there are particular reason those clubs would? Except hibs obviously. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

Ross County, Hamilton, St Mirren, St Johnstone and Hibs will. 

****ing doubt it. Especially St Johnstone. If it’s 75%, I reckon we are home and hosed.

[ayeken]

Has the Daily Record said the plan is DOOMED yet? 

[Randy Marsh]

4 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

Ross County, Hamilton, St Mirren, St Johnstone and Hibs will. 

 

Hamilton surely wouldn't vote no seeing as Les Gray was meant to be on the original 'taskforce'.  The Ross County chairman appears to be for reconstruction now.  The other 3 will vote No but it still might be enough.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Randy Marsh

[TyphoonJambo]

7 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Willie Miller will be having it explained to him in words of one syllable.

If AFC are for it,  he will be too.  Pretty sure I remember a volte face in his attitude re the Dundee vote when the Aberdeen chairman expressed concerns.

I doubt he even speaks French 😂😂

[kila]

The stakes are really high for the SPFL now. Budge has reminded them how well funded/supported Hearts are with the FoH and benefactors, so if this needs to get dragged out in the courts then we have the funding to do that.

 

I think it'll get voted through because there is no other proposal right now on how to deal with the impacts of the pandemic. There's talk of mothballing but nothing like what Budge has put together - it is in essence a plan on how we return to football and mitigate the effects of everything.

 

There is no shortage of incompetent clowns in the SFA, SPFL and at some clubs. If this proposal fails to get the vote, they will have to come up with a plan to save Scottish football and such a task is well beyond them. I think that might finally be settling in, because the recovery from this will take years. It isn't as simple as hitting pause and playing some games behind closed doors.

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

25 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

She’s made an error with the Premiership needs Hearts stuff I’m afraid. Daft thing to say. Will harden some opinion against us.

That was my first thought too.  An overall excellent proposal which is supposed to be saving Scottish football had too much of the saving Hearts and Premiership needs Hearts.  I know that’s what is really driving it for AB but the same package coming across as more neutral would likely work better with the clubs whose minds we need to change. 
 

Still, Im encouraged that it looks like we will take this all the way if it fails and the legal route might be the only way we get rid of Doncaster.