SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[merrymac]

Just now, TypoonJambo said:

Two points:

 

1. Has this been hand delivered or is there a chance it could get "lost" in the spam folder?

2. There is enough in there to actually cause Willie Millers head to explode!!!

 

Great paper which no right minded person with a real concern for the future of Scottish football can reasonably argue with.  

Point 2 - too late I'm afraid.

[Hashimoto]

2 hours ago, Rabbie_Burns said:

 

Seconded 😄👍

That post by Hager should be put up on every media outlet and social platform available.....Superbly written, a battle speech for every Hearts fan.....

[annushorribilis III]

18 minutes ago, Pnatt said:

 

This doesn't add up. Scotland will have (at best) 5 European spots for the 2021/22 season. 2 Champions League spots, 1 Europa League spot and 2 Europa Conference spots. Her proposal suggests either the Scottish Cup winner or the team in 4th would miss out on a European spot to facilitate this new playoff. Makes no sense and makes this proposal look poorly researched. Only the top 6 countries in Europe will have 6 European spots in 2021/22

 

 

Seems to contradict itself. Assumes we revert, but recommends a vote halfway through the 2nd season. This would surely put us back into the exact same self-preservation mode with clubs anywhere near the bottom 4 voting to save themselves. There is also no detail in how we'd revert. 14th automatic relegation is a given. But you still need to lose (at least) another 2 teams as 1st of the Championship is replacing them. Is there a playoff system and if so which teams would it include both from the Premiership and Championship?

Scottish football is about to go down the toilet and you're talking about a PROPOSAL for a Euro conference spot ?

 

"Makes no sense and makes this proposal look poorly researched"....aye, OK then. 

 

IF the clubs really want recon there's nothing in there that isn't insurmountable.

 

[Deevers]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Yep,   there's some absolute belters in there.   Carrots and sticks.     

 

I think our legal team crafted it.   

 

I think it’s a very, very clever bit of work.  Not accepting this as a blueprint for the way forward will lead to a very fractious few months for the SPFL and a very expensive one at the conclusion.  Lots of tears as clubs go to the wall will undoubtedly be on the cards. Time for real leadership now from Doncaster. Is he up to the task though?

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

The only losers I can see in that proposal are the Hibs fans and their bragging rights

[BelgeJambo]

Well Done Ann

 

I very much doubt any of the existing SPFL board had that level of intelligence 

 

If this proposal goes through, she should be collecting Doncaster’s 90k bonus for TV deal

[Randy Marsh]

I reckon this will comfortably get voted through in both the Championship and League 1/2.  Unfortunately it has no chance in the Premiership as Hibs and St.Mirren will vote no.  

[OTT]

41 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Well since Mrs Budge proposal is out I can say what I'd heard and said to saughton in pm ! Sky want us in the top league and want the Edinburgh derbies which they've made clear to Doncaster so Doncaster is in reverse now to try convince clubs to back proposal 

 

This was the ace in the hole? 

 

Thats really encouraging as I think it was St Johnstone who specifically said ambiguity around the Sky deal made them nervous around any reconstruction talks. Seems like this has flipped it so actually not voting for it puts the deal in jeopardy  situation is moving quickly it seems.

 

I'm a bit disappointed Ann is pushing so hard on it being temporary, but sometimes to make things happen you need to be flexible. Hopefully, once done clubs will warm to the idea and changing it back will only penalise clubs with no discernible benefit. 

[annushorribilis III]

3 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Two points:

 

1. Has this been hand delivered or is there a chance it could get "lost" in the spam folder?

2. There is enough in there to actually cause Willie Millers head to explode!!!

 

Great paper which no right minded person with a real concern for the future of Scottish football can reasonably argue with.  

Willie's just gone for a "wee lie doon".  

[Beast Boy]

I would suggest that at a delicate time like this for the Hearts support, being antagonised by vermin on a Hearts forum would be a silly thing to be allowed. Just my two cents.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

The only losers I can see in that proposal are the Hibs fans and their bragging rights

 

It's ok. They're used to it by now. 

 

I'm now even more optimistic we could be heading for one of the best Hibs-ed its yet.

 

Voted themselves down one place for nothing, deferred wages for nothing, the first big club to release a bunch of senior players, watched their rivals not only wangle a way out of relegation but save all of Scottish football.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

I reckon this will comfortably get voted through in both the Championship and League 1/2.  Unfortunately it has no chance in the Premiership as Hibs and St.Mirren will vote no.  

 

If Celtic vote for it, everyone should. That's how it seems to work. Or almost everyone. I personally hope it's 11-1 with Hibs voting no.

[Pilmuir]

9 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

It’s about 95% guaranteed to go through I’d say. Biggest four clubs and the sole provider of funds to Scottish football plus vast majority of fans are in favour of it. Players want change as well. 

But only two top tier sides need to vote against it. The odds are not in our favour when the self-interest of others is considered.

 

Great proposal though - well played AB.

[Riccarton3]

27 minutes ago, Pnatt said:

 

"We" in the "Scottish football" sense - the league reverts back, not one club.

 

Nice to see a thorough debunking of my points raised though...

What's more alarming is a Board whose members have huge conflicts of interest, a members voting structure that is not fit for for purpose and Board leadership that is non existent as direction seems to have been passed to someone who is a CEO of one club.

 

Whatever your arguments are they secondary to the above. Like looking at spilled coffee on a car seat when your whole back  end has been destroyed.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Riccarton3

[milky_26]

4 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Willie's just gone for a "wee lie doon".  

you sure he is not away for a fish supper

[Jammy T]

Save the Children to be league sponsor on basis that Hearts are in the SPL?

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Riccarton3 said:

What's more alarming is a Board whose members have huge conflicts of interest, a members voting structure that is not fit for for purpose and Board leadership that is non existent as direction seems to have been passed to someone who is a CEO of one club.

A club that was blatantly excluded from every single Sub Committee set up to deal with this nonsense, lest we forget. 

[Vlad Magic]

She’s a very clever woman.

 

I think she has them by the balls. 

[HMFC01]

18 minutes ago, Pnatt said:

 

Does who I support change the number of European spots Scotland has in 2021/22?

 

Who said Scottish clubs will be in Europe next season.  Bit presumptuous.  The whole league could go into storage if it goes to court.  Maybe I am assuming the worst too much.

 

FWIW I thought you were Doncaster 

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, Pilmuir said:

But only two top tier sides need to vote against it. The odds are not in our favour when the self-interest of others is considered.

 

Great proposal though - well played AB.

I would hope those clubs are asked to explain their decisions in detail. 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Deevers said:

I think it’s a very, very clever bit of work.  Not accepting this as a blueprint for the way forward will lead to a very fractious few months for the SPFL and a very expensive one at the conclusion.  Lots of tears as clubs go to the wall will undoubtedly be on the cards. Time for real leadership now from Doncaster. Is he up to the task though?

 

The implied suggestion of legal action cannot be ignored.    It must evoke some degree of concern.    With that in mind and if you believe it to be the case,   it surely follows that individual clubs will be especially keen to persuade other clubs towards their own view.    I think Premiership snakes will be in discussions tonight.

[merrymac]

4 minutes ago, Pilmuir said:

But only two top tier sides need to vote against it. The odds are not in our favour when the self-interest of others is considered.

 

Great proposal though - well played AB.

And if two do vote against it, lets hope the full weight of the SPFL Board and the national press are wielded against these clubs, in the same manner we have had to suffer.

Edited May 26, 2020 by merrymac

[Randy Marsh]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

If Celtic vote for it, everyone should. That's how it seems to work. Or almost everyone. I personally hope it's 11-1 with Hibs voting no.

 

That would be amazing. 👍

 

Only other issue could be teams at the bottom end of League 1 who might feel they are being relegated.  Forfar and Clyde etc however this requires 15 votes from the two leagues so it should be enough.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

Save the Children to be league sponsor on basis that Hearts are in the SPL?

 

I'd go after confused.com as sponsor to be honest. Kind of sums up the whole shebang.

[Fozzyonthefence]

51 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Those teams will care more about survival in the league though.

 

I think if there was more relegations then the wee teams would be more likely to vote no.

 

This is all just for 2 seasons. I am not keen on 14 teams and a 6/8 split, but it'll do to save Scottish football.

 

 

It’s far better than the farce we have now where you can play 18 home games and 20 away or face 3 trips to Ibrox or Parkhead.

 

Don’t know if I missed this - do Cove still go up?  I’m assuming they do.  That would mean Stranraer and 4 others get demoted to the bottom tier to play the really pish teams.   Or Cove plus Edinburgh City meaning 6 go down?  Or no promotion from League 2?  Bugger, I’ll need to read that again!
 

A lot of work has clearly gone into this and there’s a lot of good proposals but I’m afraid it still has no chance of getting the required votes.  If I’ve understood the model for pay outs correctly I think we still need 11 votes in the Premiership and Dempster will be under huge pressure from their fans not to cave in. 
 

If nothing else, it will get us closer to legal action.  

[RENE]

Can we just cut the negativity.  Yes we know some chairman will probably say no but that is great document from AB.  I can see some chairman asking 'Can someone explain this, I don't understand it' they're so thick.

getting the ok from Sky and helping funding the tests are great.  Yes there are probably some things that need clarification but overall a great document. Let's get behind this 100 per cent.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

My concern with that statement is that it doesn’t make out that we as a club are the bomb. Which is obviously true (our ****ing shambles of a football team aside) but I can see plenty of club reading it and thinking it’s very smug.

[true-jambo]

Couple of points from a quick read

1. The level of compensation we would be seeking without the Covid 19 effect of no football would be £3 to £4 million. As is pointed out in the document, this has not been plucked from thin air but is our submission to UEFA for Financial fair play. So that is a realistic number

2. Does the changes to the distribution of prize money change the Premier League voting requirement from 11-1 to 9-3?

[Pasquale for King]

What a brilliant statement and seems to cover everything, can’t see many negatives at all.

[Montgomery Brewster]

14 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

The only losers I can see in that proposal are the Hibs fans and their bragging rights

Oh yes . All the vermin will be getting worried now . Even more so the news on the benefactors staying for another 5 years.  
 

meanwhile Peruvian Ron will be looking to see what he can flog off in a fire sale 

 

F  T  H

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

The implied suggestion of legal action cannot be ignored.    It must evoke some degree of concern.    With that in mind and if you believe it to be the case,   it surely follows that individual clubs will be especially keen to persuade other clubs towards their own view.    I think Premiership snakes will be in discussions tonight.

Her proposal has covered every base. It’s fair, comprehensive and sets out a clear blue print for the way forward in crisis for every club from top to bottom. The only sticking point I can see is the venom and malice that certain clubs in the  top league have towards us. It’s a hatred in one in particular that over rides everything including common sense. If the proposals are not accepted we go for the jugular.  I hope in that case a few clubs fail.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

11 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

This was the ace in the hole? 

 

Thats really encouraging as I think it was St Johnstone who specifically said ambiguity around the Sky deal made them nervous around any reconstruction talks. Seems like this has flipped it so actually not voting for it puts the deal in jeopardy  situation is moving quickly it seems.

 

I'm a bit disappointed Ann is pushing so hard on it being temporary, but sometimes to make things happen you need to be flexible. Hopefully, once done clubs will warm to the idea and changing it back will only penalise clubs with no discernible benefit. 

 

I think that's also smart. A main reason given for not considering it was it wasn't the time. She has laid out exactly why this is the time. I can't see how they can argue against something temporary. Almost every business in the world and every person is experiencing temporary changes to the way they do things to adapt to the situation. Why should football be any different? Looking forward to clubs' arguing against temporary reconstruction. making it permanent would have given them an immediate out and wold have given weight to their claims that now's not the time.

[gator]

17 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

That post by Hager should be put up on every media outlet and social platform available.....Superbly written, a battle speech for every Hearts fan.....

More rousing than the celtic speech before the rejection of an inquiry!

[EIEIO]

29 minutes ago, Whatever said:

Vermin then.

Or maybe their new buddies (geddit) they've been busy on social media trying to make themselves look relevant. Most likely vermin.

[soonbe110]

16 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

This was the ace in the hole? 

 

Thats really encouraging as I think it was St Johnstone who specifically said ambiguity around the Sky deal made them nervous around any reconstruction talks. Seems like this has flipped it so actually not voting for it puts the deal in jeopardy  situation is moving quickly it seems.

 

I'm a bit disappointed Ann is pushing so hard on it being temporary, but sometimes to make things happen you need to be flexible. Hopefully, once done clubs will warm to the idea and changing it back will only penalise clubs with no discernible benefit. 

Temporary because in two years time there will likely only be 28-30 clubs left. Talk of league 1 ‘hibernating’ is just nonsense.  Clubs can’t come back after 18 months without football. 

[Vlad Magic]

Most importantly and can not be dismissed is the media covering our incredible fans putting money into FOH.

 

Can we afford a legal bid?

 

Yes we ****ING CAN!!!!!

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

10 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

 

That would be amazing. 👍

 

Only other issue could be teams at the bottom end of League 1 who might feel they are being relegated.  Forfar and Clyde etc however this requires 15 votes from the two leagues so it should be enough.

 

It could be win-win for us with Hibs. They vote against it and are in a minority forced to defend that decision, or even just a minority of 1 which would be even sweeter for us, or they vote for the proposal and they've basically just voted for us not to get relegated which would send elements of their support ballistic. Fantastic. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Montgomery Brewster]

17 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It's ok. They're used to it by now. 

 

I'm now even more optimistic we could be heading for one of the best Hibs-ed its yet.

 

Voted themselves down one place for nothing, deferred wages for nothing, the first big club to release a bunch of senior players, watched their rivals not only wangle a way out of relegation but save all of Scottish football.

You might need to copyright this one 😁

[Vlad Magic]

This is no bluff.

[Heartsmad1874]

5 minutes ago, true-jambo said:

Couple of points from a quick read

1. The level of compensation we would be seeking without the Covid 19 effect of no football would be £3 to £4 million. As is pointed out in the document, this has not been plucked from thin air but is our submission to UEFA for Financial fair play. So that is a realistic number

2. Does the changes to the distribution of prize money change the Premier League voting requirement from 11-1 to 9-3?

 

BBC Sport article says “For Hearts' 14-14-14 plan to pass, it would require nine of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, along with eight in the Championship and 15 across Leagues One and Two.“

[soonbe110]

13 minutes ago, Pilmuir said:

But only two top tier sides need to vote against it. The odds are not in our favour when the self-interest of others is considered.

 

Great proposal though - well played AB.

Not if it’s proposed via an egm. It’s only 75% required I think. In any case why would anyone in top league vote against it. St.Mirren/Accies chances of avoiding the drop are improved by anything from 20-50% with the change, certainly for next two years. 

[HMFC01]

17 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It's ok. They're used to it by now. 

 

I'm now even more optimistic we could be heading for one of the best Hibs-ed its yet.

 

Voted themselves down one place for nothing, deferred wages for nothing, the first big club to release a bunch of senior players, watched their rivals not only wangle a way out of relegation but save all of Scottish football.

 

Quality post   😄👍

[true-jambo]

13 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I would hope those clubs are asked to explain their decisions in detail. 

We know Leanne's Pnatt just explained it

[Whatever]

Not convinced about the Sky chat from @Selkirkhmfc1874 (Apologies if that’s the wrong poster).

 

Whilst at the same time being utterly convinced this proposal will be rejected.

 

Happy with what she’s set out and the prospect of going legal when it does fail.

[BelgeJambo]

I get the feeling, if you are in the minority group voting against this, you are committing suicide and they will be named and shamed by the MSM

[DC_92]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

My concern with that statement is that it doesn’t make out that we as a club are the bomb. Which is obviously true (our ****ing shambles of a football team aside) but I can see plenty of club reading it and thinking it’s very smug.

 

It shouldn't have mentioned Hearts at all. One of the central arguments of the proposal is about sporting fairness, but that gets obscured by the "Premiership needs Hearts..." stuff. The size of the clubs involved should be irrelevant to that argument.

 

I can see people drawing (inappropriate) comparison to the Rangers situation in 2012 because of the language used. St Mirren, Ross County, etc. will vote against citing this as their reasoning.

[Seymour M Hersh]

If you want to see the mentality we are dealing with here go to the comments section on the article on the bbc website. 

[Whatever]

2 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

I get the feeling, if you are in the minority group voting against this, you are committing suicide and they will be named and shamed by the MSM

 

Sorry.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

If you want to see the mentality we are dealing with here go to the comments section on the article on the bbc website. 

She’s made an error with the Premiership needs Hearts stuff I’m afraid. Daft thing to say. Will harden some opinion against us.

[Newton51]

This proposal should have came from the reconstruction working group and not directly from us. Some clubs might be forced to vote against to keep fans on board! Have a bad feeling it won’t get through