SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Jambo66]

1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

Yep. She was very, very clever too. Offering Hearts facilities at cost, offering to fund the testing needed. But, crucially, letting everyone know that we are bankrolled and will be able to afford to raise court proceedings.

She should have been a top level diplomat. 

Couldn't agree more. I suspect that certain people thought that having Ann Budge prepare the proposal, she would dig her own grave.

 

Turns out she has backed Scottish football into a corner. She's played a blinder and it's now looking like a win-win scenario for us.

[martoon]

1 minute ago, Defender said:

When is this likely to go to a vote?

 

Try emailing *Celtic? 😉

[Victorian]

The self interests,   opportunism and naked stupidity that exists throughout the leagues will probably cause it to fall,   unless it has already been endorsed and maybe even imposed by powerful,   perma-anonymous actors lurking in the shadows.

 

But we're not going away.   We're very clearly off to the courts.    

 

Ann Budge has a highly powerful ally and friend in the Justiciary,   which may be an asset.

[Whatever]

Just now, Jambo66 said:

Couldn't agree more. I suspect that certain people thought that having Ann Budge prepare the proposal, she would dig her own grave.

 

Turns out she has backed Scottish football into a corner. She's played a blinder and it's now looking like a win-win scenario for us.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. It’s Scottish football and I fully expect this proposal to be rejected.

 

Where arses might start flapping is when it’s announced how much compensation we’re claiming via the courts.

[Rods]

Credit where its due that proposal is magic a mixture of a guilt trip and you are putting yourself at risk.

 

Throw in see you in court and the sky deal is gone ala the Ameins appeal.

 

Get that right round ye

[The Fonz]

I've been very critical of Budge over a number of things but credit where it's due, that's an excellent proposal.

 

Three tiers should allow our top flight teams to play games and have them broadcast, championship can play if able and have the flexibility for a shorter season and league one can mothball if required. 

 

I'd bet money that it'll get voted down, but that's purely based Scottish footballs extraordinary ability to make the worst of a bad situation. 

[Jambo-Fox]

6 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

I've gone full circle. I think this will happen.

I’m drinking Full Circle (pint 3 of 9) from a mini-keg, it’s lovely! And I’m thinking I’m proud to support Hearts along with thousands of other good people!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Whatever said:

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. It’s Scottish football and I fully expect this proposal to be rejected.

 

Where arses might start flapping is when it’s announced how much compensation we’re claiming via the courts.

 

They'll already have a good idea of what we'd want and how much we'd likely be able to get.

 

If they had any sense, they'd have worked up a compensation package for relegated clubs BEFORE they made the decision to end the league.

[buzzbomb1958]

On 24/05/2020 at 11:35, a11ank said:

 

3 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

She has not had a great couple of years, but we are most likely bankrolled due to her

Cmon Ann cmon the bennyfacturs GIRUY SPFL tossers

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The self interests,   opportunism and naked stupidity that exists throughout the leagues will probably cause it to fall,   unless it has already been endorsed and maybe even imposed by powerful,   perma-anonymous actors lurking in the shadows.

 

But we're not going away.   We're very clearly off to the courts.    

 

Ann Budge has a highly powerful ally and friend in the Justiciary,   which may be an asset.

Biggest aly right now is sky 

[Central Belt 1874]

If this fails, and clubs go to the wall, then at least we know we as a club made attempts to highlight this in advance and save other clubs. 

 

No one can now say Hearts are the problem or our compensation claim killed clubs. 

 

The opportunity for many clubs is there for them to save themselves, will they take it?

[kingantti1874]

Great statement. We know we’ve done the right thing but no doubt Scottish football will find a way to shoot itself in the foot

[Whatever]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

They'll already have a good idea of what we'd want and how much we'd likely be able to get.

 

If they had any sense, they'd have worked up a compensation package for relegated clubs BEFORE they made the decision to end the league.

They’ll have an idea but depending on their meeting with the Scottish Government on Friday, we have no idea as of yet when Championship football can or will resume. 
 

Hearts not playing any football until 2021?

 

That will have a huge bearing on any compensation claim.

[Pnatt]

Quote

One criticism that has been levelled at the above structure is that the earlier split means there could be too many “meaningless” matches for the bottom 8 teams following the split. It has been suggested that this could be addressed by introducing a Play-off situation between teams that finish 5th, 6th and 7th to gain the new UEFA Conference League entry spot.

 

This doesn't add up. Scotland will have (at best) 5 European spots for the 2021/22 season. 2 Champions League spots, 1 Europa League spot and 2 Europa Conference spots. Her proposal suggests either the Scottish Cup winner or the team in 4th would miss out on a European spot to facilitate this new playoff. Makes no sense and makes this proposal look poorly researched. Only the top 6 countries in Europe will have 6 European spots in 2021/22

 

Quote

this paper assumes we would revert to our current League structure at the end of Season 2021/22, consistent with this being an interim arrangement to deal with an emergency situation. We would recommend that in January, 2022, Clubs would be asked to vote, based on what the landscape looks like at that time, whether to automatically revert or to further consider the most appropriate way forward for the betterment of Scottish Football.

 

Seems to contradict itself. Assumes we revert, but recommends a vote halfway through the 2nd season. This would surely put us back into the exact same self-preservation mode with clubs anywhere near the bottom 4 voting to save themselves. There is also no detail in how we'd revert. 14th automatic relegation is a given. But you still need to lose (at least) another 2 teams as 1st of the Championship is replacing them. Is there a playoff system and if so which teams would it include both from the Premiership and Championship?

[Beast Boy]

Tell you what, that is a quite excellent proposal. Well done, Ann.

 

Any clubs that vote against that are actively voting to hurt fellow member clubs unnecessarily. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The self interests,   opportunism and naked stupidity that exists throughout the leagues will probably cause it to fall,   unless it has already been endorsed and maybe even imposed by powerful,   perma-anonymous actors lurking in the shadows.

 

But we're not going away.   We're very clearly off to the courts.    

 

Ann Budge has a highly powerful ally and friend in the Justiciary,   which may be an asset.

I think that's a big part of how well the proposal has been prepared, 

Anybody refusing it outright will be hard pushed to do so and not sound petty and self interested in there reasons .

Though like you I never underestimate the naked stupidity of those who run the game .

 

[Victorian]

The next episode of rank stupidity on the agenda could very well be a number of lower division clubs,  with no ability or intention to play at all next season,  voting against this.     The usual Premiership suspects voting against as it will cost them £17.95 each.    A couple of Championship clubs voting against while under a psychotic delusion that they stand to fill their coffers with the Hearts £££.

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, Pnatt said:

 

This doesn't add up. Scotland will have (at best) 5 European spots for the 2021/22 season. 2 Champions League spots, 1 Europa League spot and 2 Europa Conference spots. Her proposal suggests either the Scottish Cup winner or the team in 4th would miss out on a European spot to facilitate this new playoff. Makes no sense and makes this proposal look poorly researched. Only the top 6 countries in Europe will have 6 European spots in 2021/22

 

 

Seems to contradict itself. Assumes we revert, but recommends a vote halfway through the 2nd season. This would surely put us back into the exact same self-preservation mode with clubs anywhere near the bottom 4 voting to save themselves. There is also no detail in how we'd revert. 14th automatic relegation is a given. But you still need to lose (at least) another 2 teams as 1st of the Championship is replacing them. Is there a playoff system and if so which teams would it include both from the Premiership and Championship?

you joined 15 minutes ago to post that

[Whatever]

Hi @Pnatt

 

 

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, Pnatt said:

 

This doesn't add up. Scotland will have (at best) 5 European spots for the 2021/22 season. 2 Champions League spots, 1 Europa League spot and 2 Europa Conference spots. Her proposal suggests either the Scottish Cup winner or the team in 4th would miss out on a European spot to facilitate this new playoff. Makes no sense and makes this proposal look poorly researched. Only the top 6 countries in Europe will have 6 European spots in 2021/22

 

 

Seems to contradict itself. Assumes we revert, but recommends a vote halfway through the 2nd season. This would surely put us back into the exact same self-preservation mode with clubs anywhere near the bottom 4 voting to save themselves. There is also no detail in how we'd revert. 14th automatic relegation is a given. But you still need to lose (at least) another 2 teams as 1st of the Championship is replacing them. Is there a playoff system and if so which teams would it include both from the Premiership and Championship?

Welcome to the board pnatt. 

[gator]

26 minutes ago, Captain Canada said:

It's a disgrace that it's fallen on Budge to put so much work into two proposals when it should  be Doncaster's job. 

 

I think it's a fair and sensible document but still expect it to be dismissed as early as tonight by self-serving clubs. 

The thing that really gets me is as you say, it should be Doncaster's job to come up with something like this as well as the narrow minded media and club chairmen who dismiss this as self interest when it helps so many other clubs!

[Beast Boy]

“Long time reader” etc... etc... “fan for years, never felt the need to post until now”... etc... etc...

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Whatever said:

Hi @Pnatt

 

 

 

I wonder if it should be Pratt?

[Pnatt]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

You're not Hearts. Which is fine. But cut the "we" stuff out. We're not all stupid 

 

"We" in the "Scottish football" sense - the league reverts back, not one club.

 

Nice to see a thorough debunking of my points raised though...

[soonbe110]

46 minutes ago, Whatever said:

Will be rejected out of hand and from reading it quickly, there’s enough in there that suggests we’ll be taking things further when it is.

On what basis? 

[Deevers]

Ball very  much In their court now. A very balanced and fair set of proposals.  Failure to accept this will set light to the fuse that will explode under the SPFL and see real casualties.

[soonbe110]

44 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Regarding relegation and playoff, I would have 2 going down and 2 coming up. 3rd and 4th in the Championship would play home and away and the winner would play 3rd bottom in the Premiership in a one off game at a neutral venue. It would have less meaningless games in the bottom 8

Only 1 down helps get Accies, St.Mirren, Ross County, United on side for the vote. Significantly reduces their chances of relegation next season and doesn’t affect their prize money. 

[jbee647]

13 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Great statement. We know we’ve done the right thing but no doubt Scottish football will find a way to shoot itself in the foot

This will be voted down and I’ll guarantee in 2/3 years, an almost exact similar motion will be raised by some random club and the SPFL clubs at that point will unanimously vote it through claiming it’s a revolutionary move for the future of Scottish Football 

Edited May 26, 2020 by jbee647

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Pnatt said:

 

"We" in the "Scottish football" sense - the league reverts back, not one club.

 

Nice to see a thorough debunking of my points raised though...

Ignore them. Welcome to the board. 
 

What football team do you support?

[KyleLafferty]

I just can’t see St.Mirren or Hibs passing this. It’s a great idea but they won’t Go for it. Look forward to see how much money we get in court.

[Whatever]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

On what basis? 

That it’s rejected out of hand?

 

35 years experience of following Scottish football.

[HMFC01]

27 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Well since Mrs Budge proposal is out I can say what I'd heard and said to saughton in pm ! Sky want us in the top league and want the Edinburgh derbies which they've made clear to Doncaster so Doncaster is in reverse now to try convince clubs to back proposal 

 

excellent.

 

I thought this myself, why would sky want rid of a massive derby?  Was non sense to think we were not worth keeping up.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Pnatt said:

 

"We" in the "Scottish football" sense - the league reverts back, not one club.

 

Nice to see a thorough debunking of my points raised though...

 

State from the outset what you are.   Fans of other teams are welcome but you need to be up front.

[Pnatt]

Just now, Barack said:

Let's establish which side of the fence you sit 1st. Then we'll debate.

 

Who do you support?

 

Does who I support change the number of European spots Scotland has in 2021/22?

[Whatever]

Vermin then.

[gator]

1 minute ago, Deevers said:

Ball very  much In their court now. A very balanced and fair set of proposals.  Failure to accept this will set light to the fuse that will explode under the SPFL and see real casualties.

I am sure celtic know this and want to avoid court at all costs, it's going to be interesting to see if their huge influence is big enough to control virtually every club in the league because no doubt some will be completely against this!

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, KyleLafferty said:

I just can’t see St.Mirren or Hibs passing this. It’s a great idea but they won’t Go for it. Look forward to see how much money we get in court.

They are the problem. Spite and Malice override common sense.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

11 minutes ago, Pnatt said:

 

This doesn't add up. Scotland will have (at best) 5 European spots for the 2021/22 season. 2 Champions League spots, 1 Europa League spot and 2 Europa Conference spots. Her proposal suggests either the Scottish Cup winner or the team in 4th would miss out on a European spot to facilitate this new playoff. Makes no sense and makes this proposal look poorly researched. Only the top 6 countries in Europe will have 6 European spots in 2021/22

 

 

Seems to contradict itself. Assumes we revert, but recommends a vote halfway through the 2nd season. This would surely put us back into the exact same self-preservation mode with clubs anywhere near the bottom 4 voting to save themselves. There is also no detail in how we'd revert. 14th automatic relegation is a given. But you still need to lose (at least) another 2 teams as 1st of the Championship is replacing them. Is there a playoff system and if so which teams would it include both from the Premiership and Championship?

 

 In other league reconstructions more teams than usual have been relegated. It has to be assumed we will have the playoff system. Although they seem to have arbitrarily abandoned it this season without discussing it so who knows?

 

Perhaps Neil Doncaster could, you know, do his job and sort these details out?

 

It's absurd one member club is doing all this work while he rakes in a 400k salary and the other club reps fart around in various committees that seem to be doing very little. How is Dempsters's plan to save Scottish football coming along, now she's done with voting Hibs down a place and finding money to pay Flo Kamberi deferred wages while he sits at home in his Rangers jammies?

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[annushorribilis III]

28 minutes ago, The Merse said:

It is a complete farce that we’re the ones having to put this together.

 

Makes it all the easier for it to be perceived as purely self-interest and voted down. Oh, wait.

Totally agree on both points.

 

The SPFL Board have done nothing and if this  fails it'll all be about self interest from Hearts being booted out  rather than the SPFL Board proposals being booted out by  member clubs who refusing to listen to their own board and act in their mutual interests. 

 

Some humdingers in there though -

save £330k on parachute payments 

Hearts to stump up cash for testing ? 

use of Oriam & Tynecastle for the common good.

[soonbe110]

29 minutes ago, south morocco said:

Jumping the gun a bit I know but what happens after the two year period? 

Another proposal and vote 

[soonbe110]

30 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Yep. She was very, very clever too. Offering Hearts facilities at cost, offering to fund the testing needed. But, crucially, letting everyone know that we are bankrolled and will be able to afford to raise court proceedings.

She should have been a top level diplomat. 

Better off as our ceo. And we are better off as a result as well. 

[neilnunb]

14 minutes ago, Pnatt said:

 

This doesn't add up. Scotland will have (at best) 5 European spots for the 2021/22 season. 2 Champions League spots, 1 Europa League spot and 2 Europa Conference spots. Her proposal suggests either the Scottish Cup winner or the team in 4th would miss out on a European spot to facilitate this new playoff. Makes no sense and makes this proposal look poorly researched. Only the top 6 countries in Europe will have 6 European spots in 2021/22

 

 

Seems to contradict itself. Assumes we revert, but recommends a vote halfway through the 2nd season. This would surely put us back into the exact same self-preservation mode with clubs anywhere near the bottom 4 voting to save themselves. There is also no detail in how we'd revert. 14th automatic relegation is a given. But you still need to lose (at least) another 2 teams as 1st of the Championship is replacing them. Is there a playoff system and if so which teams would it include both from the Premiership and Championship?

 

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Totally agree on both points.

 

The SPFL Board have done nothing and if this  fails it'll all be about self interest from Hearts being booted out  rather than the SPFL Board proposals being booted out by  member clubs who refusing to listen to their own board and act in their mutual interests. 

 

Some humdingers in there though -

save £330k on parachute payments 

Hearts to stump up cash for testing ? 

use of Oriam & Tynecastle for the common good.

 

And a heck of a lot more in other compensation and legal fees (maybe that's just implied)

[Victorian]

Yep,   there's some absolute belters in there.   Carrots and sticks.     

 

I think our legal team crafted it.   

 

[annushorribilis III]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And a heck of a lot more in other compensation and legal fees (maybe that's just implied)

I think that's implicit in the statement - but let's accentuate the positive. 

[soonbe110]

29 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Also this unfortunately. No-one in the media will read it that's for sure. Tom English maybe so we'll get more of these frustrating "discussions" on Sportsound where only one pundit has read up on the issues and is speaking from an informed viewpoint and the rest are going from what they gleaned from headlines in the Record and Sun.

It’s about 95% guaranteed to go through I’d say. Biggest four clubs and the sole provider of funds to Scottish football plus vast majority of fans are in favour of it. Players want change as well. 

[merrymac]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

Yep,   there's some absolute belters in there.   Carrots and sticks.     

 

I think our legal team crafted it.   

 

Come on Dungcaster you know you want it!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Another proposal and vote 

 

From now on every season will see the teams finishing bottom put forward proposals to save themselves from relegation.

 

Oh wait, they won't. Because they will have finished bottom of a completed league having played all teams home and away and will indeed in that case "deserve" to go down.

[Rods]

I am loving that statement 

 

If we are going down then we are taking people with us.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Rods

[TyphoonJambo]

Two points:

 

1. Has this been hand delivered or is there a chance it could get "lost" in the spam folder?

2. There is enough in there to actually cause Willie Millers head to explode!!!

 

Great paper which no right minded person with a real concern for the future of Scottish football can reasonably argue with.