SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[JamboGraham]

5 hours ago, Sherbet said:

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

If only that were actually true, it would actually make it easier in many ways!

 

We have no one but ourselves (as a club) to blame for being 4 points off 11th place after 30 games. Everything that has happened since is no fault of anyone connected with Heart of Midlothian. 

[troonmaroon]

1 hour ago, JamboGraham said:

 

If only that were actually true, it would actually make it easier in many ways!

 

We have no one but ourselves (as a club) to blame for being 4 points off 11th place after 30 games. Everything that has happened since is no fault of anyone connected with Heart of Midlothian. 

 

100%

[Seymour M Hersh]

I still think the SFA are going to go with a suspension. Perhaps it will be suspended so as to threaten us with future behaviour but I really do think the arsebites in charge want to send out a message to everyone.  I've no inside knowledge or really anything substantial to back this up just a gut feeling. 

[Haken]

7 hours ago, Sherbet said:

Let's just accept we have been demoted/expelled. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Get rid of the shite and make sure we come straight back up. With the players we have it should be easy on paper, unfortunately we play on grass

Well, not quite.  I have a lot of anger at the state and position we got ourselves into.  That is entirely our fault.  If it had been mathematically impossible for us and other effected reams to stay up, your post would be fine.  But calling a league purely in order to satisfy the demands of one team’s pitiful dhesire to try to outdo its bitter rival is something I will never accept blame for.

[Unknown user]

14 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

Some of our loyal and staunch away supporters are probably banned from Tynecastle. 

 

Cannae go about fighting, flag waving and singing nawty songs at home. 

 

The nawty songs are officially back, I'd bet my rent on it. 

Once people realise they can say or sing what they like with a mask on things will escalate quickly.

[HoGwash]

41 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I still think the SFA are going to go with a suspension. Perhaps it will be suspended so as to threaten us with future behaviour. 

A potentially suspended suspension. The suspense is killing me. 

[Deevers]

59 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I still think the SFA are going to go with a suspension. Perhaps it will be suspended so as to threaten us with future behaviour but I really do think the arsebites in charge want to send out a message to everyone.  I've no inside knowledge or really anything substantial to back this up just a gut feeling. 

   Not so sure about that. I reckon they will want to draw a curtain over this entire episode quietly and attempt to smooth things over. 

[upgotheheads]

Lord Clarke (Clark?) Made a sarcastic reference to Boreland's 'oot the game' remark, along the lines of the case still being under his jurisdiction, and any disproportionate punishment would find the case back in front of him. Doncaster and the Scottish Professional ****up League will want to get this out of the way as quietly as possible.

[manaliveits105]

The SFA can feck right off they deserve zero respect even their own tartan army cant stand them yet it does not bother them one iota  they just merrily go on making a fist of football in Scotland 

[Special Agent Dale Cooper]

26 minutes ago, Deevers said:

   Not so sure about that. I reckon they will want to draw a curtain over this entire episode quietly and attempt to smooth things over. 

This. Slap on the wrist and move on.

They will be much more concerned with (perceived) cordiality amongst members. The reputation of the sport in this country is in tatters and no potential sponsors will touch us with a bargepole at present.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Special Agent Dale Cooper

[Daydream Believer]

I'm a bit worried that they'll go for a big fine or suspension but suspended for 12 months.

 

If they do then I think we should fight to reduce the suspended period to 3-6 mths. It's not reasonable to tie our hands on the action we can take when they have no plan for what will happen should the next season be shortened by another outbreak.

[Deevers]

7 minutes ago, Daydream Believer said:

I'm a bit worried that they'll go for a big fine or suspension but suspended for 12 months.

 

If they do then I think we should fight to reduce the suspended period to 3-6 mths. It's not reasonable to tie our hands on the action we can take when they have no plan for what will happen should the next season be shortened by another outbreak.

They won’t do anything that would effect our ability to operate commercially. They have had a clear warning about the legality of that from Lord Clark. It would be back to court no doubt if that was the way they went.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Deevers

[Mundaydog]

12 hours ago, Gary Locke said:

Rumour going round that hearts are getting point deduction for taking spfl to court... any truth in this anyone?

should be a fine or suspension however can’t be a suspension as fixtures already out & SFA are advertising semi final.

 

So it will be a fine, probably a considerable one as the SFA have already had the begging bowl out & need money.

 

[hughesie27]

It will be a mininal token fine. If anything at all.

[EIEIO]

46 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

Lord Clarke (Clark?) Made a sarcastic reference to Boreland's 'oot the game' remark, along the lines of the case still being under his jurisdiction, and any disproportionate punishment would find the case back in front of him. Doncaster and the Scottish Professional ****up League will want to get this out of the way as quietly as possible.

It was the SPFL QC Monahan (spelling) but your point stands.

[Horatio Caine]

12 hours ago, RobNox said:

 

You are right, points deduction is not an option.  Fine, suspension or expulsion are the options. The latter two options will will not come into it, or we'll be straight back to Lord Clark.  Even a punitive fine would be unacceptable.  If they want to make any attempt at rebuilding bridges, a warning and / or suspended fine would be the way to go.

They could always change the rules though - happened before!

[OmiyaHearts]

23 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

It will be a mininal token fine. If anything at all.

This is what I've been told, by a very reliable source, who's a close friend. Their exact words were 'it'll be small fine, if there even is one', when I messaged them about it.

 

What 'small' means, I don't really know. And of course, like all things SFA related, nothing is certain!

[hughesie27]

12 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

This is what I've been told, by a very reliable source, who's a close friend. Their exact words were 'it'll be small fine, if there even is one', when I messaged them about it.

 

What 'small' means, I don't really know. And of course, like all things SFA related, nothing is certain!

Yep. The SPFL and SFA are a shambles but they aren't known for dishing out huge fines.

[Cigaro]

Remember, they'll have to give Partick the same punishment. So a massive fine for us, likely ends Partick. 

 

Can't fine one and not the other. 

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, Daydream Believer said:

I'm a bit worried that they'll go for a big fine or suspension but suspended for 12 months.

 

If they do then I think we should fight to reduce the suspended period to 3-6 mths. It's not reasonable to tie our hands on the action we can take when they have no plan for what will happen should the next season be shortened by another outbreak.

Cheer up 

[Dazo]

15 minutes ago, Cigaro said:

Remember, they'll have to give Partick the same punishment. So a massive fine for us, likely ends Partick. 

 

Can't fine one and not the other. 

maximum fine is on a sliding scale depending on which league you are in so they could justifiably fine them less imo. 

[hmfc1984]

44 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

This is what I've been told, by a very reliable source, who's a close friend. Their exact words were 'it'll be small fine, if there even is one', when I messaged them about it.

 

What 'small' means, I don't really know. And of course, like all things SFA related, nothing is certain!

😂😂😂😂 Wish we had some reliable sources in here the last few weeks! Is it your mums friends sons barber? 

[Cigaro]

8 minutes ago, Dazo said:

maximum fine is on a sliding scale depending on which league you are in so they could justifiably fine them less imo. 

Was it not 500k for C/L1/L2?

 

Could be wrong on that, and not a clue what page the information was on to check.

 

But even so, fine us the most they can, they can hardly justify not fining PT the most they can also. Partly why I think they won't hit us hard, as it's big bad Hearts, but Partick are still everyone's pal. All the negativity around this has revolved around HMFC. 

[Rogue Daddy]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

Lord Clarke (Clark?) Made a sarcastic reference to Boreland's 'oot the game' remark, along the lines of the case still being under his jurisdiction, and any disproportionate punishment would find the case back in front of him. Doncaster and the Scottish Professional ****up League will want to get this out of the way as quietly as possible.

 

Not only that, did he not say that we had every justification to bring the case to the CoS... or words to that effect? You would think that would carry some weight to our potential fine? 

[bean counter]

13 hours ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

 

Our wings are clipped for a while in terms of demanding changes .

 

 

 

I don't agree I think at the next AGM\EGM we should propose a motion\resolution that amends the rule about needing SFA permission to go to court

[Dazo]

18 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

 

Not only that, did he not say that we had every justification to bring the case to the CoS... or words to that effect? You would think that would carry some weight to our potential fine? 

 
Lord Clark couldn’t care less and his hands are washed of this, his words will mean nowt when it comes to our punishment. 

[OmiyaHearts]

46 minutes ago, hmfc1984 said:

😂😂😂😂 Wish we had some reliable sources in here the last few weeks! Is it your mums friends sons barber? 

I obviously can't say who it is but I've known them for 30 years and they work for the SFA. 

[hmfc1984]

6 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

I obviously can't say who it is but I've known them for 30 years and they work for the SFA. 

Well, obviously.

 

Amazing they just told you the likely outcome though! 

 

 

[Riccarton3]

Hearts were looking to open up the lid on the sewer. That won't lost on our football authorities when it comes to delivering punishment. The ethos will be how can we debilitate this club further? We would have, rightly, seen no place for certain individuals in the game had we been successful. A belief that will not be changing any time soon.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Riccarton3

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

maximum fine is on a sliding scale depending on which league you are in so they could justifiably fine them less imo. 

 

They would have to make the amounts relative to each other based on league we are in, not the size of clubs. They can't fine us the maximum £500k because we can supposedly afford it and then fine Partick £10k because they cannot, they would have to fine Partick the maximum allowed.

[Tokyo Drifter]

15 hours ago, Cigaro said:

SFA don't run the league so can't deduct us points. Rules say fine/suspension I'm sure. 

I'm confused by the suspension option, which is the one I thought they'd have gone for if we'd won the arbitration case - surely they can't suspend us from the league given that it's run by the SPFL for the same reason they can't deduct us points? Or does suspension by the SFA mean you can't participate in the SPFL? Most likely thing is a fine perhaps.

[OmiyaHearts]

30 minutes ago, hmfc1984 said:

Well, obviously.

 

Amazing they just told you the likely outcome though! 

 

 

It's not really, whats amazing about two mates messaging each other on whats app? Notice came out, I asked what it was all about, they replied saying what the fine would likely be.

 

We talk about their work stuff all the time, but it's usually not relevant to Hearts.

[Tokyo Drifter]

2 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

This is what I've been told, by a very reliable source, who's a close friend. Their exact words were 'it'll be small fine, if there even is one', when I messaged them about it.

 

What 'small' means, I don't really know. And of course, like all things SFA related, nothing is certain!

Trouble is a small or minimal fine sets a precedent. It says that if you take the SPFL to court and flout (in the SFA's eyes) the SFA rule about NOT doing that, you only get a small fine. That means any other club which might want to go to court will fancy it's worth it because the financial penalty will be small. If the SFA want to dissuade other clubs from going to court they're going to want to clobber us. That's my fear.

[OmiyaHearts]

Just now, Tokyo Drifter said:

Trouble is a small or minimal fine sets a precedent. It says that if you take the SPFL to court and flout (in the SFA's eyes) the SFA rule about NOT doing that, you only get a small fine. That means any other club which might want to go to court will fancy it's worth it because the financial penalty will be small. If the SFA want to dissuade other clubs from going to court they're going to want to clobber us. That's my fear.

Totally. SFA could decide to hammer us for it and my mate would be wrong. Don't see any harm in sharing what I was told, as they've been reliable plenty of times. 

[David Black]

2 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

Trouble is a small or minimal fine sets a precedent. It says that if you take the SPFL to court and flout (in the SFA's eyes) the SFA rule about NOT doing that, you only get a small fine. That means any other club which might want to go to court will fancy it's worth it because the financial penalty will be small. If the SFA want to dissuade other clubs from going to court they're going to want to clobber us. That's my fear.

To my knowledge not one other club has ever gone to court in the entire history of our game. Some have threatened, but until now , no one has. I could be wrong of course, it has been known. At most they would go directly to SPFL arbitration.

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

Trouble is a small or minimal fine sets a precedent. It says that if you take the SPFL to court and flout (in the SFA's eyes) the SFA rule about NOT doing that, you only get a small fine. That means any other club which might want to go to court will fancy it's worth it because the financial penalty will be small. If the SFA want to dissuade other clubs from going to court they're going to want to clobber us. That's my fear.

Maybe every other club will see the futility of such action in the first place given the absolutely draconian SF A articles of association. However, I doubt the SF A will be influenced by such an argument. A leopard does not change its spots. 

[Rick Sanchez]

They could release a statement saying due to the extreme circumstances and flawed vote that we will issue a 100k fine suspended for 12 months. They'll be looking to make sure we don't do the same if there's a second wave.

 

Although I expect to be hammered...why...because **** Hearts.

 

That's what we're up against.

[hmfc1984]

15 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

It's not really, whats amazing about two mates messaging each other on whats app? Notice came out, I asked what it was all about, they replied saying what the fine would likely be.

 

We talk about their work stuff all the time, but it's usually not relevant to Hearts

I didn't say two mates messaging on WhatsApp was amazing 😂

 

I was partly winding you up based on the fact we all know when anyone on any forum says they have a reliable source it is usually BS. 

 

It is however amazing that an employee of the SFA would even discuss it with anyone outside the organisation (friend or otherwise) as they risk undermining their own due process and would in most organisations be a disciplinary matter. 

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, Cigaro said:

Was it not 500k for C/L1/L2?

 

Could be wrong on that, and not a clue what page the information was on to check.

 

But even so, fine us the most they can, they can hardly justify not fining PT the most they can also. Partly why I think they won't hit us hard, as it's big bad Hearts, but Partick are still everyone's pal. All the negativity around this has revolved around HMFC. 

5k? 

500k would put every club in those leagues out of business, except us.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, Deevers said:

   Not so sure about that. I reckon they will want to draw a curtain over this entire episode quietly and attempt to smooth things over. 

 

Perhaps they could drop the charge now then?  Ratcaster certainly has done nothing to try and "smooth things over" since getting his secretive result. 

[OmiyaHearts]

9 minutes ago, hmfc1984 said:

I didn't say two mates messaging on WhatsApp was amazing 😂

 

I was partly winding you up based on the fact we all know when anyone on any forum says they have a reliable source it is usually BS. 

 

It is however amazing that an employee of the SFA would even discuss it with anyone outside the organisation (friend or otherwise) as they risk undermining their own due process and would in most organisations be a disciplinary matter. 

People talk about work all the time. We were up in north for a match a while back, at hospitality, and a clubs board member was openly talking to me and my mate about disciplinary stuff that was going on at the time. It's not amazing, it's just people talking about their work, especially in footballing circles.

 

I'll do you a favour though. If you want to pay the small annual sum for a JKB membership, or even a wee donation to FOH, I'll DM you the screen shot with the whats app messages. You pay for the privilege of posting on here and I send you evidence of inside info, seems like a fair deal to me.👍

[iainmac]

32 minutes ago, David Black said:

To my knowledge not one other club has ever gone to court in the entire history of our game. Some have threatened, but until now , no one has. I could be wrong of course, it has been known. At most they would go directly to SPFL arbitration.

 

St Johnstone & Partick Thistle (previously) off the top of my head. 

[hmfc1984]

Just now, OmiyaHearts said:

People talk about work all the time. We were up in north for a match a while back, at hospitality, and a clubs board member was openly talking to me and my mate about disciplinary stuff that was going on at the time. It's not amazing, it's just people talking about their work, especially in footballing circles.

 

I'll do you a favour though. If you want to pay the small annual sum for a JKB membership, or even a wee donation to FOH, I'll DM you the screen shot with the whats app messages. You pay for the privilege of posting on here and I send you evidence of inside info, seems like a fair deal to me.👍

Fair enough, I'd be sacked for talking about work stuff in that way but if that's how it works in the SFA it doesn't surprise me. 

 

Regards sending me the WhatsApp message though I most certainly do not want to see it and I certainly wouldn't pay for the privilege. 

 

As for FOH subscription I am quite happy with my donations already thanks 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Clearly struck a nerve but nevermind. 

[ramrod]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

Hearts were looking to open up the lid on the sewer. That won't lost on our football authorities when it comes to delivering punishment. The ethos will be how can we debilitate this club further? We would have, rightly, seen no place for certain individuals in the game had we been successful. A belief that will not be changing any time soon.

Let's not forget Partick with get exactly the same punishment as us . A huge fine and or expulsion could put them out of business. 

[normando]

90000 fine pay Dumbocasters bonus

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

Maybe every other club will see the futility of such action in the first place given the absolutely draconian SF A articles of association. However, I doubt the SF A will be influenced by such an argument. A leopard does not change its spots. 

No other club gives a toss about anything unless it directly impacts their paltry balance sheets. 
 

They chose to stand alongside draconian so they can keep their moaning to themselves from now on. 

[brunoatemyhamster]

1 hour ago, David Black said:

To my knowledge not one other club has ever gone to court in the entire history of our game. Some have threatened, but until now , no one has. I could be wrong of course, it has been known. At most they would go directly to SPFL arbitration.

Did Sevco not take the SFA to court in 2012 over the transfer embargo? 

[hmfc1984]

6 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

No other club gives a toss about anything unless it directly impacts their paltry balance sheets. 
 

They chose to stand alongside draconian so they can keep their moaning to themselves from now on. 

Pretty much sums up Scottish football. The next club to be impacted now has no right to complain so the football authorities have an even tighter grip of the game. Everyone laughing at hearts just now it could be them next time 

[hughesie27]

3 hours ago, bean counter said:

 

I don't agree I think at the next AGM\EGM we should propose a motion\resolution that amends the rule about needing SFA permission to go to court

Pretty sure it is a FIFA rule rather than an SFA one.

1 hour ago, Rick Sanchez said:

They could release a statement saying due to the extreme circumstances and flawed vote that we will issue a 100k fine suspended for 12 months. They'll be looking to make sure we don't do the same if there's a second wave.

 

Although I expect to be hammered...why...because **** Hearts.

 

That's what we're up against.

Why would we go back to court next time when they have already been vindicated in their actions this time.

[David Black]

1 hour ago, iainmac said:

 

St Johnstone & Partick Thistle (previously) off the top of my head. 

Can you remember what happened to them. Clearly not expelled.