Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Benny Factor]

29 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Thing is, we can get choosy about who gets canned right? So players who have really let the side down this year and are on long term deals can be binned.

There wouldn't be many players left!

[Nookie Bear]

23 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Exactly!  I find the self entitlement in the media from the likes of Boyd, McMannus, McMurdo sickening.  These guys aren’t even working at the moment and they think they should be getting full pay.  Meanwhile, hotel workers in Aviemore just lost their jobs and accommodation without any notice.  Footballers really have to grow the **** up and realise how privileged a life they lead, even at SPFL level.

I bet there are a few on here who earn as much as most of the First Team, some will earn even more. 
 

Has anyone on here who earns, say £50k+, offered to take a 50% pay cut? 

[Nookie Bear]

32 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Thing is, we can get choosy about who gets canned right? So players who have really let the side down this year and are on long term deals can be binned.

I asked this earlier: why not ask the underperforming players (yeah, I know) on high wages a 75% pay cut and then sack them when they refuse?

 

To he honest, it’s pretty crass to use this situation as an excuse to get rid of players. 

[busby1985]

Seems to have been missed but sportsound have just said that Budge is reviewing her position of 50% wage cuts?

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Seems to have been missed but sportsound have just said that Budge is reviewing her position of 50% wage cuts?

Up to 60%.

[HMFC01]

We should only be negotiating with the players with a good work ethic.  Soon as the ones that are bad refuse they should be let go.  I think that's fair. 

 

 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

She’s not ahead of the curve. There’s nothing clever or decisive about asking staff to take less money out of your business. She just got in first

What should she have done?

[Fozzyonthefence]

18 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Seems to have been missed but sportsound have just said that Budge is reviewing her position of 50% wage cuts?

Probably on the back of the Chancellor’s announcement about paying 80% of wages.  The situation changes on a daily basis.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

What should she have done?

Waited to see what the government does by way of helping employers (which they are going to do)?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

19 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Seems to have been missed but sportsound have just said that Budge is reviewing her position of 50% wage cuts?

Government will be funding some wages now I guess since her original request. 

 

I think something missed,  Budge will feel a responsibility not to hand the club over with debt.

 

A large part of this strategy is cutting costs without income I expect and accepting further loans that will be a black hole foreseeable future 

[Fozzyonthefence]

26 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I bet there are a few on here who earn as much as most of the First Team, some will earn even more. 
 

Has anyone on here who earns, say £50k+, offered to take a 50% pay cut? 

Or been ordered to take one?

[Ex member of the SaS]

From the EEN

Meanwhile, the Daily Record reports that 12 clubs in the SPFL are set to follow Hearts' lead by offering wage cuts.

The Tynecastle side are expected to be largely successful with their proposal due to Article 12 in the standard playing contract which states that clubs can release players without redundancy pay in the event of a league shutdown.

 

 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/reports-claim-hearts-stars-rebel-over-wage-cut-12-clubs-set-follow-jambos-lead-2504556

 

 

Time for a mass clear out of the duds

Edited March 21, 2020 by Ex member of the SaS

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Government will be funding some wages now I guess since her original request. 

 

I think something missed,  Budge will feel a responsibility not to hand the club over with debt.

 

A large part of this strategy is cutting costs without income I expect and accepting further loans that will be a black hole foreseeable future 

 

Government subsidy is up to £30,000. £577 per week. Around the least paid players.

[OTT]

26 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I asked this earlier: why not ask the underperforming players (yeah, I know) on high wages a 75% pay cut and then sack them when they refuse?

 

To he honest, it’s pretty crass to use this situation as an excuse to get rid of players. 

 

I don't want to name names as examples of players to cut because that is genuinely crass. 

 

What I would say is that section 12 apparently puts us in a strong position. Budge has a responsibility to ensure we remain financially as healthy as possible throughout this period. To my mind that means getting rid of bad assets, players who have failed to deliver. Lets not forget, we were looking at relegation and that would have cost us big time. Budge made a fair and reasonable offer based on the circumstances, and the players don't like that? Ridiculously selfish considering the shop staff etc. who may be totally reliant on their next wage. Ultimately, the needs of these people are more important than the millionaires stomping their feet. 

 

Move on the ones who haven't delivered and if more need to be moved on later then we can cross that bridge when we come to it. Its not a nice situation, but I'd much rather upset a couple of the players than see staff hit the skids and not be able to afford essentials/ bills. 

 

 

[East Lothian Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Government subsidy is up to £30,000. £577 per week. Around the least paid players.

£30k is likely to cover a significant proportion of non football staff wage levels 

 

Ann Budge couldn't have known measures Chancellor would announce yesterday 

[EIEIO]

38 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Seems to have been missed but sportsound have just said that Budge is reviewing her position of 50% wage cuts?

Could happen for non  playing staff if govt is paying up to 80 percent of their wages.

[Fozzyonthefence]

25 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

From the EEN

Meanwhile, the Daily Record reports that 12 clubs in the SPFL are set to follow Hearts' lead by offering wage cuts.

The Tynecastle side are expected to be largely successful with their proposal due to Article 12 in the standard playing contract which states that clubs can release players without redundancy pay in the event of a league shutdown.

 

 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/reports-claim-hearts-stars-rebel-over-wage-cut-12-clubs-set-follow-jambos-lead-2504556

 

 

Time for a mass clear out of the duds

So, Bill McMurdo, Kris Boyd / would you still be advising players to tell AB to **** off, risking being made redundant?  

A refreshing change to know that players don’t have all the power.  There’s not many of these wage thieves that I’d feel sorry for if they were to be made redundant, yet there id a thread on here suggesting we raise funds for them!  

Edited March 21, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[sadj]

16 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

From the EEN

Meanwhile, the Daily Record reports that 12 clubs in the SPFL are set to follow Hearts' lead by offering wage cuts.

The Tynecastle side are expected to be largely successful with their proposal due to Article 12 in the standard playing contract which states that clubs can release players without redundancy pay in the event of a league shutdown.

 

 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/reports-claim-hearts-stars-rebel-over-wage-cut-12-clubs-set-follow-jambos-lead-2504556

 

 

Time for a mass clear out of the duds

Be a lot more than 12 in the long run. Some will hold out , just to try and show they are bigger. All will need to do something. Only Celtic have finances to sustain a playing squad and administration with no income.

 

baseball , american football , nba , nhl are all seeing players donate money to cover costs of the front line staff. Staggering its a rod to beat people here. Over there its looking after each other.

[Fozzyonthefence]

6 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Could happen for non  playing staff if govt is paying up to 80 percent of their wages.

It would apply to players too but limited to £2,500 per month.  I would imagine a lot of the younger players will be on not much more than that or even less than that. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[McCrae]

3 hours ago, JamboAl said:

How much is it spending and how much does it earn?

Look at the accounts.

 

 

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Waited to see what the government does by way of helping employers (which they are going to do)?

 

My understanding is that AB's request for staff to take a 50% wage cut does not start until next month and that offer will be vastly superior, at least for most of our playing staff, to what the Govt is offering which I believe (apologies if wrong) is 80% up £2500 per month.  She is also guaranteeing to pay the minimum working wage (£18k  pa?) which means that even our lower paid staff will have a wage, which if not ideal, is very reasonable given the circumstances. 

 

PS - We know now that the Govt came up with a package a couple of days ago but they might not have done so for weeks.  It's very easy to be wise after the event.

[Mikey1874]

17 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

£30k is likely to cover a significant proportion of non football staff wage levels 

 

Ann Budge couldn't have known measures Chancellor would announce yesterday 

 

It is was it is.

 

I understand those like Fraser Wishart of PFA currently on Sportsound saying wait, not act quickly.

 

But acting quickly and certainty is helpful I think. 

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Look at the accounts.

 

 

So you don't know!

The accounts I believe reflected the position as at the last accounting date (June 19?), not our current situation.

Can you now provide details of our current situation.

[McCrae]

Just now, JamboAl said:

So you don't know!

The accounts I believe reflected the position as at the last accounting date (June 19?), not our current situation.

Can you now provide details of our current situation.

I am not your lackie. If you don’t know you can google it.

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It is was it is.

 

I understand those like Fraser Wishart of PFA currently on Sportsound saying wait, not act quickly.

 

But acting quickly and certainty is helpful I think. 

Maybe Fraser could tell us what's going to happen next eg how long it's going to last

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

 

My understanding is that AB's request for staff to take a 50% wage cut does not start until next month and that offer will be vastly superior, at least for most of our playing staff, to what the Govt is offering which I believe (apologies if wrong) is 80% up £2500 per month.  She is also guaranteeing to pay the minimum working wage (£18k  pa?) which means that even our lower paid staff will have a wage, which if not ideal, is very reasonable given the circumstances. 

 

PS - We know now that the Govt came up with a package a couple of days ago but they might not have done so for weeks.  It's very easy to be wise after the event.

All the other clubs seem to have waited though rather than rush into something.  And now it’s been reported that she’s reconsidering.

 

Anyway, looks like she may have got lucky with article 12.  Seems an ideal opportunity to clear out the dead wood.  I’m sure DS will have already told her who the dead wood is.

[JamboAl]

Just now, McCrae said:

I am not your lackie. If you don’t know you can google it.

Ah so you haven't a clue.  No great surprise there.

Well strangely nor do I and I can't google it because HMFC current accounting situation will not be on any website.  I suspect that will be commercially sensitive information.

[Mikey1874]

Although making a general point about being too early and being shocked by the Hearts announcement, Fraser Wishart of the PFA just said he understood the pressures on club boards and said it was good there was a dialogue about it between Hearts and the players. 

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

All the other clubs seem to have waited though rather than rush into something.  And now it’s been reported that she’s reconsidering.

 

Anyway, looks like she may have got lucky with article 12.  Seems an ideal opportunity to clear out the dead wood.  I’m sure DS will have already told her who the dead wood is.

I am not a spokesman for AB but I am sure she did what she thought was best based on the info then available.  Bear in mind AB was ahead of the game with the minimum working wage throughout the club and I get the impression she does care about her employees.

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

All the other clubs seem to have waited though rather than rush into something.  And now it’s been reported that she’s reconsidering.

 

Anyway, looks like she may have got lucky with article 12.  Seems an ideal opportunity to clear out the dead wood.  I’m sure DS will have already told her who the dead wood is.

 

No luck. You can be sure with Ann Budge,  Donald Cumming etc they would know the SPFL regulations, contract law etc. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I am not a spokesman for AB but I am sure she did what she thought was best based on the info then available.  Bear in mind AB was ahead of the game with the minimum working wage throughout the club and I get the impression she does care about her employees.

Are you sure?

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Are you sure?

100% sure.

Just commenting as I see things.

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

No luck. You can be sure with Ann Budge,  Donald Cumming etc they would know the SPFL regulations, contract law etc. 

You may be right, although there was no mention of it initially. It’s clear that the likes of Kris Boyd, Tam McMannus, Bill McMurdo we’re not aware of it though when suggesting players should tell AB to **** off!  I look forward to them being so critical when other clubs announce wage cuts. 

[Beast Boy]

Looking forward to those other 12 clubs being slated. Hopefully someone can lift Tam McAnus’ rock and make sure he knows what’s happening.

[Pasquale for King]

On 20/03/2020 at 14:40, SectionDJambo said:

Billy Brown just been on Sky Sports.

He made the point that Hearts are such a great club, that it’s players would probably be happy to try to help out. He said good things about Daniel Stendel waiving his salary meantime. He made a mention of recent poor recruitment, which most of us wouldn’t disagree with, but then said that we had far too many players. 
Can’t say I’m sure about us having too many players, rather than having some, not brilliant players, on salaries they probably shouldn’t be earning. 
 

A bit hypocritical when you consider how big a squad we had in 98/99 (38) and how many players he and JJ signed and gave extensions too, I’m sure like CL they didn’t get any extras for doing so. 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[flecktimus]

Just to show how easy it is for a good business decision to become a bad business decision

 

Last year i demanded a rates review for my Hotel. My rates valuation was round about £20,000. After much discussion i got my valuation down to £17,500 for the next financial year.

 

This week the Government announces grants of £10,000 for commercial properties with a rateable value up to £18,000 and   £25,000 for properties with rateable values over £18000. So my business decision last year, which at the time was logical, has now cost me £15,000 in a very difficult time.

That’s how easy it is to get stuff wrong sometimes, particularly with sudden events as we witnessing now.

 

So what have i done?

1) Closed the hotel down as there are no customers.

2) Sent all staff home on full pay staff till the 25/3/20 , Then the money runs out

3) I will look at each scheme that the government puts forward and hope that myself and my staff can get through this. My analysis for the business is for this event to last at least a year for my business, I can only hope that I am making all the right decisions. 

 

Footnote: As HMFC have, I have made a lot of investment into the business over the last 10 years and life has been tough at times. Here is the irony I was going into this summer season in the best financial position I have had for at least 10years yet in a matter of weeks I am bust. Decisions Eh

Edited March 21, 2020 by flecktimus

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

From the EEN

Meanwhile, the Daily Record reports that 12 clubs in the SPFL are set to follow Hearts' lead by offering wage cuts.

The Tynecastle side are expected to be largely successful with their proposal due to Article 12 in the standard playing contract which states that clubs can release players without redundancy pay in the event of a league shutdown.

 

 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/reports-claim-hearts-stars-rebel-over-wage-cut-12-clubs-set-follow-jambos-lead-2504556

 

 

Time for a mass clear out of the duds

But we can’t do that according to some on here 😃🤪

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, flecktimus said:

Just to show how easy it is for a good business decision to become a bad business decision

Last year i demanded a rates review for my Hotel. My rates valuation was round about £20,000. After much discussion i got my valuation down to £17,500 for the next financial year.

 

This week the Government announces grants of £10,000 for commercial properties with a rateable value up to £18,000 and   £25,000 for properties with rateable values over £18000. So my business decision last year, which at the time was logical, has now cost me £15,000 in a very difficult time.

That’s how easy it is to get stuff wrong sometimes, particularly with sudden events as we witnessing now.

 

So what have i done?

1) Closed the hotel down as there are no customers.

2) Sent all staff home on full pay staff till the 25/3/20 , Then the money runs out

3) I will look at each scheme that the government puts forward and hope that myself and my staff can get through this. My analysis for the business is for this event to last at least a year for my business, I can only hope that I am making all the right decisions. 

 

Footnote: As HMFC have, I have made a lot of investment into the business over the last 10 years and life has been tough at times. Here is the irony I was going into this summer season in the best financial position I have had for at least 10years yet in a matter of weeks I am bust. Decisions Eh

I feel sorry for you in this predicament because no doubt you will have put in a lot of personal investment as well as financial.  In the cold light of day however that is unfortunately the reality of business life and there is no precedent here to guide you/us.  It goes without saying that I hope things take a turn for the better quickly and you get back on your feet soon.

[busby1985]

Any decision taken, good or bad, that secures our future, am happy with. That’s were I stand with all this. Once we know we are going to have a team to watch in a month, 2 months, a year etc then we can start dissecting the business side of the Hearts. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

There is also the situation where Budge knew all along about article 12 and how easy it would be to get rid of certain players. So she acted quickly to ensure they could dump these players sooner rather than later. However the government have fecked

this over by making this announcement.She may now have to wait and see who is willing to take the cut and who is not, and if the government money does materialize then there is a chance we may not be able to dump any after all.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Ex member of the SaS

[flecktimus]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I feel sorry for you in this predicament because no doubt you will have put in a lot of personal investment as well as financial.  In the cold light of day however that is unfortunately the reality of business life and there is no precedent here to guide you/us.  It goes without saying that I hope things take a turn for the better quickly and you get back on your feet soon.

Thanks Al  I will just get on with what i need to get on with, but all i am trying to point out is that sometimes you make decisions and shit still hits the fan when you least expect.

[flecktimus]

10 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Any decision taken, good or bad, that secures our future, am happy with. That’s were I stand with all this. Once we know we are going to have a team to watch in a month, 2 months, a year etc then we can start dissecting the business side of the Hearts. 

This is where i am.

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

There is also the situation where Budge knew all along about article 12 and how easy it would be to get rid of certain players. So she acted quickly to ensure they could dump these players sooner rather than later. However the government have fecked

this over by making this announcement.She may now have to wait and see who is willing to take the cut and who is not, and if the government money does materialize then there is a chance we may not be able to dump any after all.

 

But the Government scheme is only worth £577 per week.

 

We have players on up to £6,000 per week. 

 

A little help but doesn't change the situation for Hearts. 

 

[Beast Boy]

18 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Any decision taken, good or bad, that secures our future, am happy with. That’s were I stand with all this. Once we know we are going to have a team to watch in a month, 2 months, a year etc then we can start dissecting the business side of the Hearts. 

That’s where I’m at too.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Government subsidy is up to £30,000. £577 per week. Around the least paid players.

Was thinking more about office staff and support staff including academy

[Adam_the_legend]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

All the other clubs seem to have waited though rather than rush into something.  And now it’s been reported that she’s reconsidering.

 

Anyway, looks like she may have got lucky with article 12.  Seems an ideal opportunity to clear out the dead wood.  I’m sure DS will have already told her who the dead wood is.

Quicker to list the non dead wood...

[OTT]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

But the Government scheme is only worth £577 per week.

 

We have players on up to £6,000 per week. 

 

A little help but doesn't change the situation for Hearts. 

 

 

If you apply the 50% wage cut then they're covering just under a 6th. Football is pretty unique in terms of wages so if it helps a little bit then great. I don't think anyone would be keen on the idea of taxpayers bailing out the wealthy... (wait a sec  )

 

Regardless, it supports the office/ additional staff would should take some of the pressure off the club to figure out how to manage this. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by OTT

[Diadora Van Basten]

If the players are not keen to take a reduction then that gives us the opportunity to remove the dead wood from the squad. 
 

Damour would be the first player I would sack.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

What should she have done?

It’s not a bad move, she just doesn’t deserve any credit for it.

[McCrae]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Ah so you haven't a clue.  No great surprise there.

Well strangely nor do I and I can't google it because HMFC current accounting situation will not be on any website.  I suspect that will be commercially sensitive information.

I am a shareholder and get the accounts sent to me every year.  We won’t get this year’s accounts to the end of the year.... but you don’t have to be a genius to work out we are in trouble, otherwise the club would not be taking the action it has.