Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[East Lothian Jambo]

13 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

Add Kris Boyd to the utter ringpiece crew. Although guess he was already in there.

 

Can't be arsed posting his thoughts in the Sun.

Boyd is barely literate 

 

Watching him on the Sky Sports Debate show is one of the most excruciating things you can watch on the tv 

 

How that is forging a career in the media is one of the great unknowns 

 

Hideous piece of excrement 

[gowestjambo]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Yes right!!  There wasn’t a £12m overspend on the stand was there?  If you believe that then there is clearly no point in further discussion on the matter. The club didn’t fund all of the stand either did they so not all of your fictional £12m overspend would have been available for other things. You really haven’t got a clue and just use anything remotely negative to continue your constant criticism of the Club. Your posts are a litany of negative comments re the club and the people running it and it’s been going on forever. 

 

Oh what a wee shame,  it looks like I need to spell it out to simpletons like you. If I am critical of the running of the club then it is wholly justified. A litany of negative posts? Are you posting from some sort of Lunatic asylum? It certainly looks like it. Perhaps a wee look at the League Table may bring a touch of reality.

 

Perhaps rather than read my posts you should put me on ignore? That would suit your head in the sand agenda.

 

Companies at the end of the Financial Year produce a set of Accounts. As you seem unable to grasp what this means, I will spell it out for you.

 

Income - Money received from Season Tickets, Match day tickets, Hospitality and any other aspects which produce an income stream.

 

Expenditure - Any costs associated with the running of the club. This produces a Gross Profit. A Gross Profit shows income minus expenditure. Tax is not paid on GP.

 

Operating Costs - wages Employers Ni etc. Once subtracted this shows the Net Profit. Tax is paid on the Net Profit minus allowable costs. Once the Tax is paid the money is available to spend or go into reserves.

 

My understanding is we have produced a Net Profit for the last few years. Therefore the question needs to be asked - where has the Surplus gone?

 

Until the club is run properly I along with many others will question where the money is spent. Had we been prudent we would not have been one of the first to announce a 50% reduction in wages.

 

You and some others seem unaware of how finances in the real world operate. This tends to show your ignorance on how companies trade. Rather than examine facts you without any knowledge spout your version of events.

 

It appears there are still a number of happy clappers at large.

 

 

 

 

 

t

[J.T.F.Robertson]

2 hours ago, Saughton Jambo said:

Quite staggering profit and loss returns  from JB Contracts these last 3 years according to filed accounts at companies house 

 

2016 - £4197

2017 - £214,450

2018 - £333,384

2019 - £527,531 

 

Total profit last 3 years £1,075,365. 
 

Given the vast profit margins these last 3 years then I’d have thought a little family discount would’ve been proffered, given the massive overspend on the stadium. 
 

I don’t begrudge anyone who’s working hard for these margins but can we honestly say we’ve had value for money on our stadium overspend?
 

What is noticeable when looking around the stadium pitch side these days is why is there no JB Contracts advertising boards?  This would at least be seen to be putting something back into our clubs fragile accounts imo

 

The horse is long gone, but accusations of nepotism were always on the cards in a situation like this. She should never have awarded any part of this project to family and I don't say any of that because of the hubz connection.

Having said that, nepotism had fek all to do with our utterly abysmal recruitment policy over the past few years. (unless "you know who" qualifies)

 

[livingstonjambo]

11 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

The stand overspend has put pressure on the cash reserves.  Its largely depleted them 

 

We have and have had exceptional inflows over and above turnover. Therefore we've had funds flow into the club way in excess of most other clubs. Our performance comparatively is a disgrace 

 

Our financial position would be better placed to withstand such unforeseen circumstances had budgeted league placings been achieved in any of the last 3 and soon to be 4 seasons. We've had years of sporting and therefore financial under performance.  Yet our CEO on the face of it hasn't been unduly concerned.  Instead she allowed Levein to add yet more to the budget in August.  She said afterwards the player budget had been breached 

 

The position we find ourselves in is of concern to us all. When Hearts are on the brink of relegation I think there needs to be scrutiny of those who've overseen such catastrophic under achievement. 

 

I fully appreciate the uncertainty this unforeseen situation has brought about across the global economy.  We can't overlook what we were facing prior to this event 

How many times do you have to be told that the stand overspend barley impacts anything, 90% has been covered by benefactors. 

[East Lothian Jambo]

4 minutes ago, livingstonjambo said:

How many times do you have to be told that the stand overspend barley impacts anything, 90% has been covered by benefactors. 

Good Evening 

 

Why are we so short of cash then? 

 

 

[livingstonjambo]

quite simply because we have no income. Is that so hard to comprehend?

[tolcross lad]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

It can only grow if she keeps lending to us. She needs to declare that in the accounts. Sorry but you are mistaken. 

Where is the money coming from to finance the next 6 months?

[gowestjambo]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I thought you were just about to give us your master blueprint.

Oh no, that's not possible, is it?

 

It is - spend less than the Income received. Don't waste untold millions on dud players. Do not let a Director of Football have autonomy for signing players, and the length of contracts offered. Furthermore, do not allow ex employees to hang around the club when they have played a major role in allowing the club to drop into the bottom position of the league,

 

Put major contracts out to tender - do not under any circumstances give contracts to your Brother in Law who has zero experience of a Contract 10 times bigger than they have handled previously.

 

Do not insult the fans who have forked out millions by telling them they are not genuine Heats fans.

 

Do not produce an estimate for a new Stand which costs twice as much as the budget. It appears the current Coronavirus is a convenient distraction to give out bad news.

 

It seems it is possible after all - unless you disagree?

 

Until recently we were seen as a club who were the envy of all others except the O/F. Today, that now appears to be a shallow piece of misinformation. The legacy of Ann Budge's legacy lies in tatters. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Given she has no visibility of when income gets turned back on she probably acted with prudence. How we got to a stage where we have a shortage of cash reserves is probably something she will need to answer 

 

There may also be a degree of forward thinking in her actions. An opportunity to lose some people from the payroll that we may not be too bothered about were they to leave. Indeed some we may have to incentivise to leave under different circumstances 

That crossed my mind too. Perhaps this isn’t just about struggling to pay wages and she’s finally showing her ruthlessness in business dealings and sees this as an opportunistic early start to the rebuild for the Championship, although even if we stay up there will have to be a massive clear out and rebuild.

[East Lothian Jambo]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

That crossed my mind too. Perhaps this isn’t just about struggling to pay wages and she’s finally showing her ruthlessness in business dealings and sees this as an opportunistic early start to the rebuild for the Championship, although even if we stay up there will have to be a massive clear out and rebuild.

Wouldn't surprise me 

 

The squad overhaul required is enormous regardless of division next year 

[soonbe110]

28 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Oh what a wee shame,  it looks like I need to spell it out to simpletons like you. If I am critical of the running of the club then it is wholly justified. A litany of negative posts? Are you posting from some sort of Lunatic asylum? It certainly looks like it. Perhaps a wee look at the League Table may bring a touch of reality.

 

Perhaps rather than read my posts you should put me on ignore? That would suit your head in the sand agenda.

 

Companies at the end of the Financial Year produce a set of Accounts. As you seem unable to grasp what this means, I will spell it out for you.

 

Income - Money received from Season Tickets, Match day tickets, Hospitality and any other aspects which produce an income stream.

 

Expenditure - Any costs associated with the running of the club. This produces a Gross Profit. A Gross Profit shows income minus expenditure. Tax is not paid on GP.

 

Operating Costs - wages Employers Ni etc. Once subtracted this shows the Net Profit. Tax is paid on the Net Profit minus allowable costs. Once the Tax is paid the money is available to spend or go into reserves.

 

My understanding is we have produced a Net Profit for the last few years. Therefore the question needs to be asked - where has the Surplus gone?

 

Until the club is run properly I along with many others will question where the money is spent. Had we been prudent we would not have been one of the first to announce a 50% reduction in wages.

 

You and some others seem unaware of how finances in the real world operate. This tends to show your ignorance on how companies trade. Rather than examine facts you without any knowledge spout your version of events.

 

It appears there are still a number of happy clappers at large.

 

 

 

 

 

t

Biggest pile of rubbish you have posted yet. And that’s saying something!
Any profits, and they have been marginal at best, have been reinvested in the infrastructure of the Club. Just take a look at cash inflows and outflows of the club since we exited admin. 
Anyway , as I said, your agenda is anti-Hearts owner, whoever they are and I’m tired of debating it with you. 

[soonbe110]

15 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

Where is the money coming from to finance the next 6 months?

That’s why she is trying to cut costs.  It really is quite simple if you think about it 

[McCrae]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Profit has nothing to do with it. It’s all about cash and having enough to pay the bills for the next three to four months when we will have no income. Our club costs about £1.25m per month to run. Three to four months times £1.25m is??
if you lost are told tomorrow that you will not receive salary for four months how would you pay your bills? Would you look to your past profit and loss for the answer or the cash in your bank account?  

you don’t have any cash in the bank if you don’t make a profit. The club is spending more than it earns and it has to stop.

Edited March 20, 2020 by McCrae

[soonbe110]

Just now, McCrae said:

you don’t have any cash in the bank if you don’t make a profit.

Of course you do, or can. Never heard of loans. Never heard of managing creditor and debtor payment terms. Never heard of shareholder funding. Never heard of crowdfunding. Never heard of investment angels. Think you have proved a point with that post. 

[livingstonjambo]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

you don’t have any cash in the bank if you don’t make a profit.

wow, what an idiotic comment, you have zero idea how business works

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Still waiting to hear how many of our business gurus have put aside at least six months worth of income to tide things over and cover their outgoings.

 

For the simpletons, yet again: -

 

1. Budge has overseen a decline on the pitch and has made some shocking decisions. No argument - I think she should go when the takeover is complete.

2. This decision has bugger all to do with the first set of mistakes and is the right one.

 

Arguing about 1 doesn't solve anything to do with 2.

 

[tolcross lad]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

That’s why she is trying to cut costs.  It really is quite simple if you think about it 

Costs without income.It isn't simple at all.

[soonbe110]

Just now, tolcross lad said:

Costs without income.It isn't simple at all.

?????

[Francis Albert]

On 18/03/2020 at 18:27, jcjambo81 said:

This is why the season has to be null and void . we could be restarting  with half the squad we had when it was suspended 

Sounds like a plus to.me. less than half might be better.

 

[McCrae]

3 minutes ago, livingstonjambo said:

wow, what an idiotic comment, you have zero idea how business works

please tell me how you think business works.

[McCrae]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Still waiting to hear how many of our business gurus have put aside at least six months worth of income to tide things over and cover their outgoings.

 

For the simpletons, yet again: -

 

1. Budge has overseen a decline on the pitch and has made some shocking decisions. No argument - I think she should go when the takeover is complete.

2. This decision has bugger all to do with the first set of mistakes and is the right one.

 

Arguing about 1 doesn't solve anything to do with 2.

 

I agree.

 

[soonbe110]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

Sounds like a plus to.me. less than half might be better.

 

They are starting to fall like dominoes. Raith chairman says they won’t play any games after 1 June because they will only have 9 signed players left. 
She has played a blinder in terms of bringing things to a conclusion 

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Still waiting to hear how many of our business gurus have put aside at least six months worth of income to tide things over and cover their outgoings.

 

For the simpletons, yet again: -

 

1. Budge has overseen a decline on the pitch and has made some shocking decisions. No argument - I think she should go when the takeover is complete.

2. This decision has bugger all to do with the first set of mistakes and is the right one.

 

Arguing about 1 doesn't solve anything to do with 2.

 

On 2. I think it too early to say.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

On 2. I think it too early to say.

You would though. Chance to be an Eeyore.

[McCrae]

12 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Of course you do, or can. Never heard of loans. Never heard of managing creditor and debtor payment terms. Never heard of shareholder funding. Never heard of crowdfunding. Never heard of investment angels. Think you have proved a point with that post. 

Our club has a problem getting loans because of the previous Administration. Do you not think this option would have been taken up if we could? Longer term no business can survive without making a profit.  As I said earlier it’s smart to build up your reserves. Your cash reserves are normally generated from the profits you make. Investment angels are not an option open to Hearts and what would crowd funding achieve that is different from the FOH contributions.  

Edited March 20, 2020 by McCrae

[livingstonjambo]

3 minutes ago, McCrae said:

please tell me how you think business works.

nah I will leave that to you, you seem to know better than every businessman in the world. why do you think the government agreed to play 80% of salarys today? 

 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

You would though. Chance to be an Eeyore.

No. Just chance to express an opinion.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

No. Just chance to express an opinion.

Which is what I said.

[tolcross lad]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

?????

It means borrowing to finance the costs ie debt

We still have to pay wages at club up to 50%of players wages and full wage for low earners.This could go on for 6 months.Any idea what our wage bill is?

[Fozzyonthefence]

10 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

They are starting to fall like dominoes. Raith chairman says they won’t play any games after 1 June because they will only have 9 signed players left. 
She has played a blinder in terms of bringing things to a conclusion 

What has Raith’s player contract situation got to do with AB?  I think Raith have the smallest budget of the full time clubs so it’s hardly surprising they’re struggling.

[livingstonjambo]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

What has Raith’s player contract situation got to do with AB?  I think Raith have the smallest budget of the full time clubs so it’s hardly surprising they’re struggling.

so you think Raith are the only club in Scotland that will have loads of contracts ending on May 29th?

[JamboAl]

42 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Good Evening 

 

Why are we so short of cash then? 

 

 

How do you know we are short of cash?

It would be a surprise if we weren't going to be, given the fact that little or no money will be coming in while wages etc will still need to be paid.  That is why we have taken what might be called emergency measures.

It is obvious that you somehow think AB could have/should have known that CV would happen and how long it would last

[Cruyff]

6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

How do you know we are short of cash?

It would be a surprise if we weren't going to be, given the fact that little or no money will be coming in while wages etc will still need to be paid.  That is why we have taken what might be called emergency measures.

It is obvious that you somehow think AB could have/should have known that CV would happen and how long it would last

Eh..... 

[Fozzyonthefence]

16 minutes ago, livingstonjambo said:

so you think Raith are the only club in Scotland that will have loads of contracts ending on May 29th?

Where did I suggest that?  I was asking what the relevance of AB’s wage cut was compared to Raith players contract situations and how she had played a blinder in bringing things to a conclusion.

[graygo]

26 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

It means borrowing to finance the costs ie debt

We still have to pay wages at club up to 50%of players wages and full wage for low earners.This could go on for 6 months.Any idea what our wage bill is?

 

With a £9m wage bill, even if all staff agreed to 50% we would need to find over £2m over the next 6 months with no income likely.

[livingstonjambo]

7 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Where did I suggest that?  I was asking what the relevance of AB’s wage cut was compared to Raith players contract situations and how she had played a blinder in bringing things to a conclusion.

its not hard to work out. to finish the season raith ( and everyone else) would have to extend contracts for players that they have no income to pay them with

[graygo]

This has probably been mentioned but with the government agreeing to pay 80% of any employees who are laid off then we can assume that none of our back office staff will be accepting a 50% pay cut.

[East Lothian Jambo]

40 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

How do you know we are short of cash?

It would be a surprise if we weren't going to be, given the fact that little or no money will be coming in while wages etc will still need to be paid.  That is why we have taken what might be called emergency measures.

It is obvious that you somehow think AB could have/should have known that CV would happen and how long it would last

I think we might be on different wavelengths 

[Sigma One]

All business that have looked at the downturn over the last 3 months are cutting based on the last month. We are all affected in some way. Just a month ago I had budget to buy new services 2 weeks later boom gone. I'm waiting for the call of redundancy which in my case isn't as serious as others (hopefully), but hey lets blame the owner trying to do their job. 

[JamboAl]

35 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

I think we might be on different wavelengths 

Ah so you don't know!

[Footballfirst]

At the end of the 2015/16 season, the club was in a good place. It had build cash reserves of around £3m because of unanticipated success in winning the Championship then finishing 3rd in our next season back in the Premiership. The reserves were basically equivalent to the cash that FOH had put into the club as "working capital"

 

Thereafter the finances went into a downward spiral for two reasons, first the stadium redevelopment and second performance on the pitch. Both of those left the club running on a break even basis and ultimately requiring to borrow funds to remain afloat, i.e. short term funding from AB.

 

It was a deliberate decision of the Club's Board to spend what it did, both in terms of the redevelopment and on misfiring signings and management changes. To that extent the Board is wholly responsible for the Club living on the edge at this time and being vulnerable to unforeseen events.  

 

That "unforeseen event" has hit the club harder than anyone could have anticipated. You can't blame AB for the event, but I think that it is reasonable to question her decisions that left the Club unable to respond positively to any adverse event, far less the Coronavirus.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Unknown user]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed. The scale and scope of the new stand should have been scaled back long before a 100% ( and counting )over-run. Ndeed a more phased develoment was always more semsible.The changing rooms for example under the Wheatfield wete perfectly adequate and the over provision of hospitality when the old facilities rarely sold out unnecessary. And as for the player recruitment and unprofitable extension of the women's teams?  

The whole stand thing seems obvious now but how much grief did you, I, and others get for pointing out the obvious at the time?

It's easy to blame Ann in retrospect, but the majority of our support shouted down any concerns and cheered her on through the build, it's a bit hypocritical for them to call it obvious now.

[graygo]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

This has probably been mentioned but with the government agreeing to pay 80% of any employees who are laid off then we can assume that none of our back office staff will be accepting a 50% pay cut.

 

Having thought about this a bit more I'm not so sure now.  80% salary for possible 3-6 months then nothing or 50% salary for 3-6 months then back to full pay. Obviously nobody knows how long it will be.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

39 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

At the end of the 2015/16 season, the club was in a good place. It had build cash reserves of around £3m because of unanticipated success in winning the Championship then finishing 3rd in our next season back in the Premiership. The reserves were basically equivalent to the cash that FOH had put into the club as "working capital"

 

Thereafter the finances went into a downward spiral for two reasons, first the stadium redevelopment and second performance on the pitch. Both of those left the club running on a break even basis and ultimately requiring to borrow funds to remain afloat, i.e. short term funding from AB.

 

It was a deliberate decision of the Club's Board to spend what it did, both in terms of the redevelopment and on misfiring signings and management changes. To that extent the Board is wholly responsible for the Club living on the edge at this time and being vulnerable to unforeseen events.  

 

That "unforeseen event" has hit the club harder than anyone could have anticipated. You can't blame AB for the event, but I think that it is reasonable to question her decisions that left the Club unable to respond positively to any adverse event, far less the Coronavirus.

No offence, but I don't blame the club at all for spending. Had we performed on the pitch we would still be in this situation.

[graygo]

50 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Having thought about this a bit more I'm not so sure now.  80% salary for possible 3-6 months then nothing or 50% salary for 3-6 months then back to full pay. Obviously nobody knows how long it will be.

 

Turns out that to get the 80% the employee has to be retained by the company.

[Beast Boy]

7 hours ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Good Evening 

 

Why are we so short of cash then? 

 

 

A worldwide pandemic that has stopped us trading? 
 

 

[Beast Boy]

7 hours ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Wouldn't surprise me 

 

The squad overhaul required is enormous regardless of division next year 

Using the current issues affecting the world, as a platform to whine about player recruitment is pathetic imo. Not sure why you are being allowed to get away with tbh.

[TheSandpit]

 

 

The hot take!

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5409955/hearts-pay-kris-boyd/

[Billybuffjaw]

5 minutes ago, TheSandpit said:

 

 

The hot take!

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5409955/hearts-pay-kris-boyd/

I wonder what his take on The Rangers will be when their plight kicks in.

[OldGorgie]

10 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Can you give us details of our current financial position.

Also how long is this going to last?

The answers will help us, and Hearts, to make a more definitive assessment of the crisis.

 

Of course I can’t as along with others we don’t have access to the current financial situation. But simply putting your head in the sand as many did by supporting Levein won’t help. AB is out her depth as a football club CEO. That’s self evident.