Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Maple Leaf]

16 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Hope all is well with you and your family.

 

Thanks.  Self-imposed isolation at home, with only immediate family members allowed in.

 

All the best.

[soonbe110]

40 minutes ago, McCrae said:

I agree with the action AB is taking now. When a mess is created you need to sort it out. 

same with CR, as a club we were facing Administration and he was pursing a strategy of either selling the club... best case scenario or a worst case selling the stadium. Both leaders were/are to blame and should be held accountable.

I would like a leader who would Not spend every penny we make, having some reserves makes sense on so many levels. It makes no sense for us to keep going from one financial crisis to another. We don’t seem to learn lessons from the past.

She would have needed to keep back reserves of £3-4m to cover the next few months. Why would any club keep 20-25% of turnover as reserves? 

[Ex member of the SaS]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

We were in a very stable financial position just three months ago at the agm.  A potential £400k - £800k income shortfall that needed attention. Home cup game against Rangers together with a semi-final would have covered that shortfall so the baseline financials are, or would have been, stable. The potential for a cup final would have created a significant surplus. 
Just keep on digging with your nonsense re previous years mistakes being the cause of this though. The hole just keeps getting bigger. 

Sorry but the previous years mistake play a huge part in here we are today. First off the wasted money on players who were loaned out as they were not good enough added to the fact that had the money not been wasted on duff players we would have made top four for the three seasons instead of 5th and two 6th places. 

Also taking into the fact that had player recruitment been better the players we have now would have won more game ( or at least you would hope so ) and we would not be in a relegation fight with all the financial pit falls relegation brings.

[soonbe110]

14 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

Surely the governments announcement solves all the problems. 

Still sticks in the craw, the tea lady will get 80 percent of next to nothing and Wayne Rooney will get 80 per cent of his money.

madness.

No he won’t I suspect. 

[soonbe110]

13 minutes ago, kila said:

 

I thought £2500 a month was the limit they will pay out? Which covers 80% of the population's salary? Or have I misunderstood?

 

 

It covers 80% of the nations median salary. 

[soonbe110]

10 minutes ago, Suso Santana said:

 

A think about rubbish?

It's all played a part in where we are today. Virus or not. 

I'm not seeing the mighty hibs cutting the players wages by 50%.

We have no idea what actions they were taking. 

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Sorry but the previous years mistake play a huge part in here we are today. First off the wasted money on players who were loaned out as they were not good enough added to the fact that had the money not been wasted on duff players we would have made top four for the three seasons instead of 5th and two 6th places. 

Also taking into the fact that had player recruitment been better the players we have now would have won more game ( or at least you would hope so ) and we would not be in a relegation fight with all the financial pit falls relegation brings.

Relegation isn’t a factor in the actions she has taken. 

[Jeff]

The chancellor's plans should help a number of lower league clubs which is excellent

[SMJ_1874]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Long been a supporter of Ann, However she has to put her hands up with regard to doing nothing when it was clear budgeting for fourth each season and watching us drop further and further. ( imho it would be better budgeting for bottom six each season and whenever we finish higher it's a bonus ) 

Her backing of Levein, the over run on the new stand ( some claiming it's planned because her brother was the benefactor ) the costs of the new pitch and subsequent damage all must be redressed by her.

It was obvious very early in the season Levein was taking us down and she should have acted, then acted much quicker in getting a new manager ( even if that meant no Stendel ). Just because she is a millionaire doesn't mean she has to fund the club indefinitely ,however she has to see she take much of the blame and should be willing to act accordingly.

 

Benefactor or beneficiary? If he’s the benefactor then I wonder what his contributions have been 🤔 

[JamboAl]

57 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Al, I overlook all your questions. You have zero credibility in my opinion after your previous unwavering support for Levein. (The man who has to take 100% responsibility for damaging out finances)

 

I see Billy Brown who probably knows more about how Football clubs operate, has agreed with my views on why we are in the financial mess we find ourselves in.

 

We are where we are, and as we have spunked millions unnecessarily, we have no choice but to reduce costs.

 

Regarding any topic, I will express my views as I see fit, and not what you or any other poster thinks. If you don't like it you know what to do.....

 

 

Once more you run away from the real issue because not only are you bereft of credibility, you are lacking in common sense and understanding.

You are quite right to express your views but at least come up with viable alternatives when you disagree with what the club has done in the current situation.  What should we have done?

 

PS - I don't wish to open a separate can of worms but Billy Brown always had his hand held by JJ except for the short time he managed the mighty Cowdenbeath and East Fife.

[Randy Marsh]

1 hour ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Al, I overlook all your questions. You have zero credibility in my opinion after your previous unwavering support for Levein. (The man who has to take 100% responsibility for damaging out finances)

 

I see Billy Brown who probably knows more about how Football clubs operate, has agreed with my views on why we are in the financial mess we find ourselves in.

 

We are where we are, and as we have spunked millions unnecessarily, we have no choice but to reduce costs.

 

Regarding any topic, I will express my views as I see fit, and not what you or any other poster thinks. If you don't like it you know what to do.....

 

 

 

This.

 

Very disappointing that Levein has yet to leave the club thus far.  I would have thought this Hearts legend would have stepped up to the plate to help the club out during these challenging times.  Cant believe I went to this wasters testimonial against Coventry City in 1995 in front of an embarrassingly low crowd.  I want my £10 back from him.

[Francis Albert]

17 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I wasn’t aware that we had laid anyone off. What operations have been closed down permanently? 

Academy operations for one. Not permanently but the staff laid off as in not paid. Maybe we can still take up the government's 80% offer for all lower paid staff but just maybe Ann's pioneering reaction was unwise? Or forced by cash flow pressures which so far other clubs have not had to act on.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Scnorthedinburgh]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Academy operations for one.

I know the real world tends to pass KB, but has anyone noticed the country has just shut down for a couple of weeks?

Lots of people are getting shafted and it's a wee virus doing it. Any company with this level of disruption in their planning should run the world.

[Jamboelite]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Academy operations for one. Not permanently but the staff laid off as in not paid. Maybe we can still take up the government's 80% offer for all lower paid staff but just maybe Ann's pioneering reaction was unwise? Or forced by cash flow pressures which so far other clubs have not had to act on.

Unwise because she should have realised the government was going to step in on wages for the first time in history.

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Scnorthedinburgh said:

I know the real world tends to pass KB, but has anyone noticed the country has just shut down for a couple of weeks?

Lots of people are getting shafted and it's a wee virus doing it. Any company with this level of disruption in their planning should run the world.

Sorry can't make sense of that. 

[Francis Albert]

Just now, Jamboelite said:

Unwise because she should have realised the government was going to step in on wages for the first time in history.

Or just that there was no need to react so quickly unlike every other club which has not responded in the same way. Or because our cash flow pressures made it more urgent for us. If the latter why?

 

 

 

 

[Scnorthedinburgh]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

Sorry can't make sense of that. 

Why are people carrying on like this, could the club have guessed the season would stop?

Now the gov stops the bar and hosp from working.

And on here it's moan moan moan.

You have 2 or 3 months to try and make sense of what it means and what matters.

Hope that helped.

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, Vlad Magic said:

Pointless post.

 

Every single point you make has been made before, argued about before and debated about before.

 

Its done.

 

Please stop looking backwards.

 

Please start looking forwards.

 

There are bigger things going on right now than anything you mention above.

 

People lives and livelihoods are on the line.

 

Let that sink in.

Well said. 
 

 

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Scnorthedinburgh said:

Why are people carrying on like this, could the club have guessed the season would stop?

Now the gov stops the bar and hosp from working.

And on here it's moan moan moan.

You have 2 or 3 months to try and make sense of what it means and what matters.

Hope that helped.

The same crew will find something to moan about whatever the circumstances.

[livingstonjambo]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Academy operations for one. Not permanently but the staff laid off as in not paid. Maybe we can still take up the government's 80% offer for all lower paid staff but just maybe Ann's pioneering reaction was unwise? Or forced by cash flow pressures which so far other clubs have not had to act on.

Would you rather the club had done nothing in the hope for the first time in history a government would pay 80% of affected businesses payroll or just hop for the best? 
As it stands the offer the club made doest come into effect until April 1st and it actually makes little or no difference now as the government funding should be backdated to March 1st.

Again nobody at the club has been laid off

[Jee]

Has *Hearts legend Craig Levein took his paycut, or better yet ****ed off yet?

 

*Pish.

[Beast Boy]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Or just that there was no need to react so quickly unlike every other club which has not responded in the same way. Or because our cash flow pressures made it more urgent for us. If the latter why?

 

 

 

 

[OldGorgie]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

The same crew will find something to moan about whatever the circumstances.

I think that you will find many posters are puzzled that despite donating over £11 million from FOH and the clubs silent investors, we are not in a position to ride out another crisis. 

[Scnorthedinburgh]

Just now, Jee said:

Has *Hearts legend Craig Levein took his paycut, or better yet ****ed off yet?

 

*Pish.

Yes that is the important thing in Gorgie just now. Last time you went to a game you passed pubs, cafe's barbers. No way of telling if your trip to the next game will see any of them open. 2 or 3 months no income will turn gorgie road into a ghost town.

[Riccarton3]

39 minutes ago, Suso Santana said:

 

A think about rubbish?

It's all played a part in where we are today. Virus or not. 

I'm not seeing the mighty hibs cutting the players wages by 50%.

Suso always had a bit of subtlety. Rolling his foot over the ball on the touchline at Hampden, Beautiful. Hibs players looking at where the ball should have been. That goal at Tynecasle, another roll over, up the touchline, across the keeper to finish. Some good memories - I think he was worth the cash but as you suggest, others a ****ing disaster

Edited March 20, 2020 by Riccarton3

[Scnorthedinburgh]

1 minute ago, OldGorgie said:

I think that you will find many posters are puzzled that despite donating over £11 million from FOH and the clubs silent investors, we are not in a position to ride out another crisis. 

Or we are because someone did something early.

 

[livingstonjambo]

3 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

I think that you will find many posters are puzzled that despite donating over £11 million from FOH and the clubs silent investors, we are not in a position to ride out another crisis. 

I think most wont as all of the cash raised by the FOH has been spent on thing agreed by the members of the FOH. If you dont know that is 100% on you.

[gowestjambo]

47 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

No it doesn’t. If the players bought had resulted in better performances we would have been buying players at a higher level. Football clubs, in Scotland, never have money in the bank. It’s not in the nature of the game. Surely you can see that no income over next few months versus an anticipated income  of circa 6m is what is driving this?  If not, there’s no hope for you. 

 

OK sorry, I need to put it in simple terms for you: We do not have enough money and have to offer 50% of contracts. If we had not wasted so much this would not be necessary at this moment in time.

 

No hope for me? - You don't have to spend a nano second worrying about me. I have my finances in order and will have no need to cut my income by a penny.......

[soonbe110]

21 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Academy operations for one. Not permanently but the staff laid off as in not paid. Maybe we can still take up the government's 80% offer for all lower paid staff but just maybe Ann's pioneering reaction was unwise? Or forced by cash flow pressures which so far other clubs have not had to act on.

Think all clubs are/were faced with cash flow pressures. Almost all of them would have been life-threatening I suspect. 
No employees laid off permanently then. Some employees put on unpaid leave, same as multiple businesses across the country. 
She has been criticised in the past for being slow in making decisions, this time she is quick off the mark and is criticised. Definitively a few on here who will criticise her whatever she does. 
Id say her reaction to the situation has made a lot of people sit up and pay attention. She has even alerted the SPFA to contractual items they were apparently  not aware of. Contractually, her offer to the playing staff was a lot more generous than it needed to be. I’d rather have a leader than a follower in charge of our club regardless of how painful many of the luddites find it. 

[Cade]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50440587

Flush in November.

Skint in March?

Naw.

AB is just reacting to global events and insulating HMFC from the lack of match day income.

[SMJ_1874]

1 hour ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

My biggest issue with her was the defiant almost girfuy stance when she came out in support of Levein around September.  Even when she relieved him of the managerial post it was done seemingly under duress and at around 16.00 in the day. God only knows what went on that day behind the scenes 

 

Her September defiance was aimed at anyone who had the apparent temerity to question what Levein was doing. Hearts onfield decline has been a long time in the making. She needs to shoulder a great proportion of responsibility for that 

 

5th, 6th, 6th and quite possibly relegation are a long way from 4th place finishes she has referred to. 5th place being achieved under Cathro despite a record that again saw us as statistically the worst side in the country over a 6 month period 

 

She backed Levein relentlessly and has now reaped the consequences 

 

On the appointment of JB Contracts.  I believe that was incredibly ill judged but I don't believe any cost overrun was to benefit JB and his business. What qualified a modest joinery company in Davidson Mains to invoice HMFC to the tune of £6.5M over that project is possibly something AB gets asked about when the dust settles 

Quite staggering profit and loss returns  from JB Contracts these last 3 years according to filed accounts at companies house 

 

2016 - £4197

2017 - £214,450

2018 - £333,384

2019 - £527,531 

 

Total profit last 3 years £1,075,365. 
 

Given the vast profit margins these last 3 years then I’d have thought a little family discount would’ve been proffered, given the massive overspend on the stadium. 
 

I don’t begrudge anyone who’s working hard for these margins but can we honestly say we’ve had value for money on our stadium overspend?
 

What is noticeable when looking around the stadium pitch side these days is why is there no JB Contracts advertising boards?  This would at least be seen to be putting something back into our clubs fragile accounts imo

[Suso Santana]

10 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Suso always had a bit of subtlety. Rolling his foot over the ball on the touchline at Hampden, Beautiful. Hibs players looking at where the ball should have been. That goal at Tynecasle, another roll over, up the touchline, across the keeper to finish. Some good memories - I think he was worth the cash but as you suggest, others a ****ing disaster

 

We signed suso in 2009 mate. Levein's 2nd spell has mostly been a disaster and cleaned us out of cash. 

[livingstonjambo]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50440587

Flush in November.

Skint in March?

Naw.

AB is just reacting to global events and insulating HMFC from the lack of match day income.

correct

[gowestjambo]

32 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Once more you run away from the real issue because not only are you bereft of credibility, you are lacking in common sense and understanding.

You are quite right to express your views but at least come up with viable alternatives when you disagree with what the club has done in the current situation.  What should we have done?

 

PS - I don't wish to open a separate can of worms but Billy Brown always had his hand held by JJ except for the short time he managed the mighty Cowdenbeath and East Fife.

 

I am one of the few to bring the real issue to light. I have never run away from anything - including your unending Craig levein love in. And you question my credibility - even you should be ashamed of this statement!!

 

If you took a few moments to read some of my other posts, instead of looking for an argument you would be better off. You have been very quiet since your now doomed support of the man responsible for wasting millions.

 

You may wish people have forgotten how foolish you were - but not all of us!!

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, gowestjambo said:

 

OK sorry, I need to put it in simple terms for you: We do not have enough money and have to offer 50% of contracts. If we had not wasted so much this would not be necessary at this moment in time.

 

No hope for me? - You don't have to spend a nano second worrying about me. I have my finances in order and will have no need to cut my income by a penny.......

Sorry, I’ll make it even simpler for you - we would have needed to have many millions in the bank to have covered the next few months income shortfall as a result of the suspension of football. There was never any chance of a Scottish football club having enough money in the bank to cover the income shortfall clubs are currently experiencing. Football clubs don’t save money, they spend it in players. Fans demand it. I’m sure you will have suggested we need to buy players at some time during your time posting on here. 
Re your finances, good for you. I have no idea why anyone would want to cut their own income at this time. Cut your costs, maybe, many will be doing just that particularly the millions who are facing up to 20% pay cuts.

[Riccarton3]

There has been a lot of waste at Hearts on the playing side That is undeniable. It should never put the club in financial difficulties without a health pandemic in the equation. And the fact is, it didn't. Still wasteful, though, a business woman relying on the activities of a respected football manager at club and international level, let down horribly but lacking any third party for advice, or else ignoring it

Edited March 20, 2020 by Riccarton3

[soonbe110]

17 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

I think that you will find many posters are puzzled that despite donating over £11 million from FOH and the clubs silent investors, we are not in a position to ride out another crisis. 

Why did we donate the money? 

[gowestjambo]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Sorry, I’ll make it even simpler for you - we would have needed to have many millions in the bank to have covered the next few months income shortfall as a result of the suspension of football. There was never any chance of a Scottish football club having enough money in the bank to cover the income shortfall clubs are currently experiencing. Football clubs don’t save money, they spend it in players. Fans demand it. I’m sure you will have suggested we need to buy players at some time during your time posting on here. 
Re your finances, good for you. I have no idea why anyone would want to cut their own income at this time. Cut your costs, maybe, many will be doing just that particularly the millions who are facing up to 20% pay cuts.

 

Perhaps the 12 millon overspend on the stand might have helped our financial situation? I realise this will go way over your head due to your amateurish understanding of how finances work.

[Riccarton3]

6 minutes ago, Suso Santana said:

 

We signed suso in 2009 mate. Levein's 2nd spell has mostly been a disaster and cleaned us out of cash. 

sorry, I was just appreciating your name choice, remembering some good times, Chin up.

[jock _turd]

I don't think that people really are seeing the big picture here. This is a major health problem that is not going to go away quickly, end of April for the resumption of football is pie in the sky. I was due to shoot in a competition in the third week in June and it has been cancelled and put back to September. The whole of Europe is increasingly on lockdown, people dying in their hundreds every day and there are many  getting laid off and yet there are some on here that lambaste AB for  having the foresight to try to save jobs trying to save jobs by trying to get employees to take voluntary cuts in wages. Make no mistake there are going to be football clubs in Scotland that are gleefully slagging off Hearts that are going to be in deep shit very shortly.

[Suso Santana]

11 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

sorry, I was just appreciating your name choice, remembering some good times, Chin up.

 

Fair play bud,  

Suso was underrated and didn't get enough game time imo.

We could have done with a player like him this season but i reckon levein wouldn't have played him cos he's a clueless nob jockey.

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Suso Santana

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Perhaps the 12 millon overspend on the stand might have helped our financial situation? I realise this will go way over your head due to your amateurish understanding of how finances work.

Yes right!!  There wasn’t a £12m overspend on the stand was there?  If you believe that then there is clearly no point in further discussion on the matter. The club didn’t fund all of the stand either did they so not all of your fictional £12m overspend would have been available for other things. You really haven’t got a clue and just use anything remotely negative to continue your constant criticism of the Club. Your posts are a litany of negative comments re the club and the people running it and it’s been going on forever. 

[livingstonjambo]

2 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Perhaps the 12 millon overspend on the stand might have helped our financial situation? I realise this will go way over your head due to your amateurish understanding of how finances work.

most of the overspend has been covered by benefactors and the only reason we have continued to overspend on it is the fact the benefactors were willing to do so. Dont believe me look at the questions from the last two AGM's and they will say the same. 

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

I don't think that people really are seeing the big picture here. This is a major health problem that is not going to go away quickly, end of April for the resumption of football is pie in the sky. I was due to shoot in a competition in the third week in June and it has been cancelled and put back to September. The whole of Europe is increasingly on lockdown, people dying in their hundreds every day and there are many  getting laid off and yet there are some on here that lambaste AB for  having the foresight to try to save jobs trying to save jobs by trying to get employees to take voluntary cuts in wages. Make no mistake there are going to be football clubs in Scotland that are gleefully slagging off Hearts that are going to be in deep shit very shortly.

Yep, but some can’t or won’t see it. They just found another thing to have a go at the club about. Pretty sad really 

[GinRummy]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Yep, but some can’t or won’t see it. They just found another thing to have a go at the club about. Pretty sad really 

If we were bottom of the league with millions in reserve people would be going mental. Punters just whine no matter what noses the first team is flying. 

[Suso Santana]

Ye ken Hibs are shite when Obua scores haha

Suso getting the first. 

 

[East Lothian Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

Quite staggering profit and loss returns  from JB Contracts these last 3 years according to filed accounts at companies house 

 

2016 - £4197

2017 - £214,450

2018 - £333,384

2019 - £527,531 

 

Total profit last 3 years £1,075,365. 
 

Given the vast profit margins these last 3 years then I’d have thought a little family discount would’ve been proffered, given the massive overspend on the stadium. 
 

I don’t begrudge anyone who’s working hard for these margins but can we honestly say we’ve had value for money on our stadium overspend?
 

What is noticeable when looking around the stadium pitch side these days is why is there no JB Contracts advertising boards?  This would at least be seen to be putting something back into our clubs fragile accounts imo

If JB Contracts were qualified to undertake works / sub contract then fair enough.  Cant imagine they had experience of similar projects but the commercial tendering process was seemingly undertaken appropriately and the relationship between HMFC/Bidco and JB Contracts was deemed sufficiently at arms length 

 

You could reasonably make a correlation between 100% overspend and depletion of cash reserves and having to make cuts as we have this week 

 

St Johnstone have cash assets of close to £2M at time of latest trading period end. That would allow them to operate for a significant period whilst income is absent 

[Riccarton3]

5 minutes ago, Suso Santana said:

 

Fair play bud,  

Suso was underrated and didn't get enough game time imo.

We could have done with a player like him this season but i reckon levein wouldn't have played him cos he's a clueless nob jockey.

He would 

Indeed. Can certainly agree on that.  No problema

[Suso Santana]

Baaaaaaaaaaaam

❤️

 

 

[East Lothian Jambo]

6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Yes right!!  There wasn’t a £12m overspend on the stand was there?  If you believe that then there is clearly no point in further discussion on the matter. The club didn’t fund all of the stand either did they so not all of your fictional £12m overspend would have been available for other things. You really haven’t got a clue and just use anything remotely negative to continue your constant criticism of the Club. Your posts are a litany of negative comments re the club and the people running it and it’s been going on forever. 

Ultimately the stand has cost nearer £24M than £11/12M originally forecast