Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[gowestjambo]

2 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

You're probably right.  A newsagent shop seemed to be the go-to business for retired Hearts players.  Gordon Marshall had one as well, I think.

 

As did Wee Hammy at the top of Robertson Avenue across the road iirc.

[JamboAndrew]

2 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I have a huge problem with social media in general (I know I know before anyone starts) and I have a huge problem with our players getting on it. It is disastrous.  From telling the world 'how much they are ready for a game' to then lose or this crap.  Keep it private ffs.

 

I am with you regarding social media. And not just for players. 

 

But I do understand why this was posted in this case. 

[busby1985]

7 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

They could at least have asked them to take a 50% wage cut or a contract termination!

They asked them to take 50% wage cuts I think. They refused so they’ve sacked them. 

[Beast Boy]

2 hours ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Brilliant Al, not heard from you for ages. And it has certainly been worth the wait!  If you read my post please show me where I mentioned the Coronavirus?

 

My point was the number of dross signings and length of contracts. I take it you then are happy with our policy over the last few years?

It’s a pretty gigantic mitigating circumstance towards our current situation and the topic of the thread though.

[Malinga the Swinga]

14 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Current situation highlights the downside of bringing things like Catering and Retail back "In House" to boost Turnover figures(totally separate matter to Profit) as correspondingly the wage bill goes up.

FWIW, Think we were struggling to get through to new Season Ticket sales in any case due to Budge's statement a few months ago that revenue was down by £400k (due to the shiteness of the football on show) and Stendel being hamstrung by January's one out/one in transfer policy. Reserves set aside for a rainy day seem to be minimal at best.

We are a in a bit of a shambles Corona virus or not, which doesn't reflect well on Budge's stewardship at all, Imho.

 

 

 

 

 

Can't believe Mrs B brought stuff back in-house when it was obvious to everyone that an unknown virus was going to hit the worlds health and economy years after she made the original decision. Fancy trying to boost Hearts income when she should have known what no one else in the world was able to predict.

We should have kept reserves of cash and not tried to sign players or new management team. If we had played 16 year olds this season, we would have saved a fortune, cause it was obvious Covid 19 was impacting on football, despite it not being in existence.

[milky_26]

FC Sion have sacked nine players who refused a pay cut

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11960830/coronavirus-alex-song-among-nine-fc-sion-players-sacked-following-swiss-league-suspension

[Tommy Brown]

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

He always seemed a bit creepy.

 

I spoke to him at a dinner he spoke.

He was good and s pleasant guy.

[Koolkeith]

1 hour ago, Suso Santana said:

Have any other Premiership clubs followed suit yet? 

Possibly, but perhaps not advertised it.

[heartsfc_fan]

Montrose and Dumbarton also announce wage cuts:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51977038

 

[soonbe110]

6 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

Yeah, because he doesn’t earn the minimum.

He does 

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, The Fonz said:

If Clev has refused the 50% cut I don’t necessarily have an issue with it. Probably on relative peanuts and the guy has always given 100%. He’s got a young family and is out of contract soon anyway, so needs to maximise his income before being plunged into complete uncertainty. 
 

Also, some of the higher earners dropping to 50% will still be on more than what he’s on now. I’d hope guys like Naisy who are set for life will offer to take the cut and possibly more in the short term. 
 

Stendel working for free- great guy and exactly the kind of leadership we need right now. 
 

As has been pointed out, the fact that Levein’s still taking a wage (either half or full, I’d put money on it being full) while Stendel takes the hit is telling. No shame, no class, no morals. 

He didn’t refuse it though 

[SectionDJambo]

Billy Brown just been on Sky Sports.

He made the point that Hearts are such a great club, that it’s players would probably be happy to try to help out. He said good things about Daniel Stendel waiving his salary meantime. He made a mention of recent poor recruitment, which most of us wouldn’t disagree with, but then said that we had far too many players. 
Can’t say I’m sure about us having too many players, rather than having some, not brilliant players, on salaries they probably shouldn’t be earning. 
 

[Nookie Bear]

If the circumstances allow it, why are we not just making our top 5 players redundant? 
 

Are we obliged to offer a wage cut? Make it 90% cut for the highest earners. Someone mentioned Hickey was exempt (rumour) so clearly we can cherry pick who we target. 

[The Fonz]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

He didn’t refuse it though 

You’re correct.
 

I posted that before Clevid had clarified the situation. The guy has gone further up in my estimations. 

[PapaShango]

4 hours ago, BelgeJambo said:

Are you Alan Sugar?

So you think she's done a great job then? Maybe get your head out the sand.

[SectionDJambo]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

If the circumstances allow it, why are we not just making our top 5 players redundant? 
 

Are we obliged to offer a wage cut? Make it 90% cut for the highest earners. Someone mentioned Hickey was exempt (rumour) so clearly we can cherry pick who we target. 

Is Hickey not exempt only, in that he would fall below the living wage if they halved his wages?

[JamboAl]

47 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

A sentence to a paragraph about nothing. My point is there for all to see, if you cannot recognise the fact we have wasted millions on duff signings then quite frankly I am not surprised.

 

If venting my spleen amounts to two sentences then it cant be that serious is it?

 

If we had not signed a ridiculous amount of dross over the last two years, our Finances would be in a much stronger position.

It's funny you've never mentioned this before.  Oh wait....

Geoff Kilpatrick said, a few pages back, this thread is not about past waste, but about the current situation.

Can I ask you again

WHAT SHOULD WE HAVE DONE WITH REGARD TO THE CURRENT SITUATION (AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO WHAT THE CLUB HAVE DONE)?

 

[Jodami]

3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

If the circumstances allow it, why are we not just making our top 5 players redundant? 
 

Are we obliged to offer a wage cut? Make it 90% cut for the highest earners. Someone mentioned Hickey was exempt (rumour) so clearly we can cherry pick who we target. 

Redundancy involves lump sum payments, that's the last thing we want right now. Cash flow will be the biggest issue. We are doing the right thing here and critically doing it early. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

42 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Can't believe Mrs B brought stuff back in-house when it was obvious to everyone that an unknown virus was going to hit the worlds health and economy years after she made the original decision. Fancy trying to boost Hearts income when she should have known what no one else in the world was able to predict.

We should have kept reserves of cash and not tried to sign players or new management team. If we had played 16 year olds this season, we would have saved a fortune, cause it was obvious Covid 19 was impacting on football, despite it not being in existence.

If we’d played 16 year olds this season we’d still be in the same league position.

[soonbe110]

54 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

As did Wee Hammy at the top of Robertson Avenue across the road iirc.

He did 

[Tenaciousdandy]

1 hour ago, 1953 said:

Agreed but I do wonder if we should be transparent as much as we are as it usually becomes a stick to beat us with.

Tbh I think it's a damned if we do damned if we don't situation 

[Des Lynam]

Ann should be waiving the FOH payback money to get through these tough times. 

[gowestjambo]

6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

It's funny you've never mentioned this before.  Oh wait....

Geoff Kilpatrick said, a few pages back, this thread is not about past waste, but about the current situation.

Can I ask you again

WHAT SHOULD WE HAVE DONE WITH REGARD TO THE CURRENT SITUATION (AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO WHAT THE CLUB HAVE DONE)?

 

 

I think you will find I am not the slightest bit interested in what Geoff Kilpatrick said - why should I? does he dictate the topic?

 

Mr Angry with Capital Letters I see.

 

Typical Jambo Al - who do you think you are the Question Master - what a one trick Pony.

[Austin MacGlee]

1 hour ago, Jingle Bells said:

Current situation highlights the downside of bringing things like Catering and Retail back "In House" to boost Turnover figures(totally separate matter to Profit) as correspondingly the wage bill goes up.

FWIW, Think we were struggling to get through to new Season Ticket sales in any case due to Budge's statement a few months ago that revenue was down by £400k (due to the shiteness of the football on show) and Stendel being hamstrung by January's one out/one in transfer policy. Reserves set aside for a rainy day seem to be minimal at best.

We are a in a bit of a shambles Corona virus or not, which doesn't reflect well on Budge's stewardship at all, Imho.

 

 

 

 

 

The more I see and read I am coming to this conclusion, too. I don't want to slate her or anything because I don't envy any employer having to make awful, hard decisions just now but there have been indications prior to the pandemic that our financial health isn't as good as we'd want it to be. 

[gowestjambo]

55 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

It’s a pretty gigantic mitigating circumstance towards our current situation and the topic of the thread though.

 

There is no argument with your post. The fact is all Finances need to be examined.

 

I have no issue with what the club is doing regarding the 50% reduction. Perhaps if we had not wasted millions on duff signings, our Finances would have been in better shape.

[XB52]

8 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

I think you will find I am not the slightest bit interested in what Geoff Kilpatrick said - why should I? does he dictate the topic?

 

Mr Angry with Capital Letters I see.

 

Typical Jambo Al - who do you think you are the Question Master - what a one trick Pony.

Maybe answer his question

What would you do in the current situation? 

[Dazo]

16 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

There is no argument with your post. The fact is all Finances need to be examined.

 

I have no issue with what the club is doing regarding the 50% reduction. Perhaps if we had not wasted millions on duff signings, our Finances would have been in better shape.

You think shite signings rather than losing a huge percentage  of our budgeted income is the relevant issue here ? 

[Nookie Bear]

28 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Redundancy involves lump sum payments, that's the last thing we want right now. Cash flow will be the biggest issue. We are doing the right thing here and critically doing it early. 

 

True, though Sion have offered a wage cut and sacked anyone who refused which suggests no lump sum payment.

 

So why not just offer guys like Damour, Naismith, Doyle, White, Haring, Walker, Avdijaj and Uche reduced contracts of 25% their current salary and sack them if/when they refuse? Seems like a win-win for our balance sheet and rebuilding the squad.

[Nookie Bear]

If we are assuming the league will conclude at some point, exactly how much are we standing to lose between now and, say, August? Does anyone have a ballpark figure?

 

Obviously season ticket sales will be affected but that is complicated by the fact we don't know what league we will be playing in but, as someone said, the club could offer an early-bird deal of £200 towards the final cost of your ticket.

[Riccarton3]

10 minutes ago, Dazo said:

You think shite signings rather than losing a huge percentage  of our budgeted income is the relevant issue here ? 

the issue here for some is that we could have been paying full wages for longer and paying half wages much later (whilst grudgingly acknowledging a health pandemic's impact). I get the angst. It could be for another time and just concentrate on the here and now but...)

Edited March 20, 2020 by Riccarton3

[Malinga the Swinga]

8 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

True, though Sion have offered a wage cut and sacked anyone who refused which suggests no lump sum payment.

 

So why not just offer guys like Damour, Naismith, Doyle, White, Haring, Walker, Avdijaj and Uche reduced contracts of 25% their current salary and sack them if/when they refuse? Seems like a win-win for our balance sheet and rebuilding the squad.

Because it isn't about using Covid 19 to boost our finances. It is about doing the right thing for the club to ensure its long term survival whilst at the same time doing the right thing by the players. This is unprecedented and there is no guaranteed right way to do things, because we don't know how long things are going to remain like this. If it goes for 12 to 18 months, then no business can survive without income for that period.

 

When are you rebuilding squad for? Next season, the season after that or when?

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

the issue here for some is that we could have been paying full wages for longer and paying half wages much later (whilst grudgingly acknowledging a health pandemic's impact). I get the angst. It could be for another time and just concentrate on the here and now but...)

That is maybe an issue if you are a little simple. The quality of player is irrelevant, no business football or otherwise can sustain that kind of loss of income. 

[JamboAl]

36 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

I think you will find I am not the slightest bit interested in what Geoff Kilpatrick said - why should I? does he dictate the topic?

 

Mr Angry with Capital Letters I see.

 

Typical Jambo Al - who do you think you are the Question Master - what a one trick Pony.

Whar a beautiful side step

I didn't suggest GK should dictate the topic - merely that he made a valid point.  The thread title should dictate the topic and you're oblivious to that - deliberately I suspect.

I used capitals just so you would see it.  You appear to have overlooked my question before and you're still going to ignore it I guess because you're all bluster and no substance.

C'mon display your wisdom!

[Malinga the Swinga]

17 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

If we are assuming the league will conclude at some point, exactly how much are we standing to lose between now and, say, August? Does anyone have a ballpark figure?

 

Obviously season ticket sales will be affected but that is complicated by the fact we don't know what league we will be playing in but, as someone said, the club could offer an early-bird deal of £200 towards the final cost of your ticket.

We don't know if there will be a league at all. What happens if 2020/2021 sees no football. What are you paying £200 for because no club will survive without matches for that length of time.

 

Without a vaccine, there is no long term winning this battle.

[buzzbomb]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

He does 

Think you’re wrong.

[Nookie Bear]

9 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Because it isn't about using Covid 19 to boost our finances. It is about doing the right thing for the club to ensure its long term survival whilst at the same time doing the right thing by the players. This is unprecedented and there is no guaranteed right way to do things, because we don't know how long things are going to remain like this. If it goes for 12 to 18 months, then no business can survive without income for that period.

 

When are you rebuilding squad for? Next season, the season after that or when?

 

We can only deal with what we believe the situation to be now, and that is that football may return around August/September. If that is optimistic then we review and adapt.

 

Although I mentioned the balance sheet, I am actually talking about saving money through this time but, as people seem to pretty casual about sacking players then why should we not go for the highest earners or those that we feel are not giving value for money?

 

Incidentally, if this goes on for 12 months then global football as a whole would have to recalibrate and we would find our natural position in the aftermath. No idea where...but above hibs.

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

We don't know if there will be a league at all. What happens if 2020/2021 sees no football. What are you paying £200 for because no club will survive without matches for that length of time.

 

Without a vaccine, there is no long term winning this battle.

 

The £200 was mentioned elsewhere and got a decent response. If there is no football in that time then we have bigger worries than Hearts and we move on, hopefully with the £200 refunded.

[Nookie Bear]

9 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I don’t know in and outs of specific contracts.

 

However, under normal circumstances (I accept these are anything but normal) if you asked someone to accept a reduced contract and they refused, then sacked them. The sacked individual would be entitled to the contract paid up.

 

The Sion players could likely get their money legally, whether they would go down that route due to PR is probably less likely. If there will be a club top go after in a few months, would be questionable.

 

 

 

 

 

That is what I would expect and, just because a player earns more than a Doctor, does not make him any less entitled to his contract being paid in full.

 

Footballers have pretty thick skin when it comes to PR and usually have little issue in taking the money and running, or taking the money and sitting on the bench, if it suits them.

[eyesandears]

SPFL Distress League Table has us out in front - 

1. Hearts - 50% wage cut across all employees or you're emptied.

2. Montrose - players have offered to take a reduction and likely to be accepted

3. Dumbarton - players taking 50% salary deferral until further notice

4. Forfar - planning cost cutting talks with staff

5. Partick - club encouraging supporters to fundraise

6. Raith Rovers - club asking fans to raise funds

Relegation Place - Ross County with Roy Macgregor assuring all players and staff that their salaries will be met in full.  

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by eyesandears
typo

[Riccarton3]

21 minutes ago, Dazo said:

That is maybe an issue if you are a little simple. The quality of player is irrelevant, no business football or otherwise can sustain that kind of loss of income. 

maybe a picture of something very large to represent Coronavirus and a picture of something very small (Heart of Midlothian) would bring it into perspective

[buzzbomb]

24 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

 

[BelgeJambo]

1 hour ago, PapaShango said:

So you think she's done a great job then? Maybe get your head out the sand.

She’s made mistakes admittedly, but she is no where near as bad as the rogues prior to her

 

If you look around the club, it is plain for me to see the difference she has made for the good

 

Maybe you should pull your head out of yer arse if you want to throw insults 

[1953]

I like all this talk of keeping surplus funds for a rainy day. Just imagine if this virus wasn't happening and we got relegated and Mrs B makes a statement saying sorry we've gone down to the championship but it's not all bad cos we've got£2m that we decided not to spend on players and it's sitting in a bank account just in case a world wide disaster happens. I seem to remember there was a lot of folks demanding that Mrs B splashed the cash in January to get us out of the mess. We may never know now if it was enough.

[East Lothian Jambo]

40 minutes ago, Dazo said:

You think shite signings rather than losing a huge percentage  of our budgeted income is the relevant issue here ? 

Half a million of the million Budge refers to is non budgeted income insofar as its cup income. We dont budget for cup income 

 

We do however budget for a top 4 finish each year and the prize money that brings. That might explain a hole, a sustained hole for 4 years in a row. All predating Covid19

 

She also told us earlier in the season we were £400k behind projected income. We then brought in Stendel and 2 coaches plus January signings 

 

All of this while spending 11 million more than budget on CapEx project

[GavK1012]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

Billy Brown just been on Sky Sports.

He made the point that Hearts are such a great club, that it’s players would probably be happy to try to help out. He said good things about Daniel Stendel waiving his salary meantime. He made a mention of recent poor recruitment, which most of us wouldn’t disagree with, but then said that we had far too many players. 
Can’t say I’m sure about us having too many players, rather than having some, not brilliant players, on salaries they probably shouldn’t be earning. 
 

 

Mr Magoo knows we have far too many players....this is an absolute gimme...

[tolcross lad]

3 minutes ago, 1953 said:

I like all this talk of keeping surplus funds for a rainy day. Just imagine if this virus wasn't happening and we got relegated and Mrs B makes a statement saying sorry we've gone down to the championship but it's not all bad cos we've got£2m that we decided not to spend on players and it's sitting in a bank account just in case a world wide disaster happens. I seem to remember there was a lot of folks demanding that Mrs B splashed the cash in January to get us out of the mess. We may never know now if it was enough.

It's the opposite of nest egg that we have.Its debt.Quite lot of it and counting.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, gowestjambo said:

 

There is no argument with your post. The fact is all Finances need to be examined.

 

I have no issue with what the club is doing regarding the 50% reduction. Perhaps if we had not wasted millions on duff signings, our Finances would have been in better shape.

It’s not the current state of our finances that the issue. Surprised you can’t see that.  The issue is that with no football for three months or more we will run out of cash. In a normal football environment we would take in about £6-8m+ over the course of the next four months.  That’s not looking like happening so we need to take action. 

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

It's the opposite of nest egg that we have.Its debt.Quite lot of it and counting.

Who do we owe money to? 

[EagleJambo]

If reports are accurate that social distancing in some form or other could continue for the rest of 2020 they will have to play games behind closed doors if they are going to finish the season. If that happens, other clubs are going to have to take steps to tighten their belts, or will go to the wall.

[Nookie Bear]

5 minutes ago, David Bennett said:

If reports are accurate that social distancing in some form or other could continue for the rest of 2020 they will have to play games behind closed doors if they are going to finish the season. If that happens, other clubs are going to have to take steps to tighten their belts, or will go to the wall.

I don’t think there would be much point in clubs continuing in their current form if there had to play behind closed doors until 2021