Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said: Yep, worse than Typhoid which apparently had Aberdeen in lockdown / quarantine in the 60's. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-26957972 Sheep dip is dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, 4marsbars said: There's a good graph here that compares how lethal flu is with coronavirus. It says for my age group, if I get the flu I have a .06% chance of dying. If I get coronavirus there is a 3.6% chance. I am 60 times more likely to die. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-to-flu-mortality-rates-2020-3?r=US&IR=T I'm sure these statistics will change as we gain more knowledge, but, everyone, can we please stop the 'it's just like the flu' chat? The "just like the flu" chat is because most people are not at risk whereas, like flu, there are specific groups who are more at risk. The overall risk is higher because it is a new virus with no natural immunity. So play your part in mitigating the risks but get on with life. You'll probably get ill worrying about your own demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, kila said: My point was the figures they are releasing for coronavirus death rate aren't including those recovering at home with mild symptoms, where as their flu figures are? How do statistics distinguish between people recovering at home with mild flu symptoms and those recovering at home from symptoms of the common cold? Or indeed how could anyone distinguish from either of those and people with mild Coronovirus symptoms who never know they had the thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Lord BJ said: La Liga games to be played behind closed doors for next two weeks at least. If the SPFL was to go behind closed doors, how many ST holders would eschew a refund, out of interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: The "just like the flu" chat is because most people are not at risk whereas, like flu, there are specific groups who are more at risk. The overall risk is higher because it is a new virus with no natural immunity. So play your part in mitigating the risks but get on with life. You'll probably get ill worrying about your own demise. Absolutely agree about mitigating the risks and getting on with life, neither am I especially worrying about my own demise. However, the risk of a highly infectious disease that kills 3% of people in my age group (and more for older people) is unprecedented in my lifetime. We have been fortunate enough to live in a place and at a time when the prospect of dying from an infectious disease was very small. 'most people are not at risk' - I disagree. Most people are at risk of losing a loved one, a friend, a parent, a grandparent, a carer 'before their time'. This is way beyond the flu. As you say, the point is not to spread panic, but to generate awareness that we should take the handwashing, coughing and sneezing, and self-isolation advice seriously and not think 'it won't happen to me'. By taking this thing seriously, we are less likely to spread it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, kila said: My point was the figures they are releasing for coronavirus death rate aren't including those recovering at home with mild symptoms, where as their flu figures are? How is the flu figures calculated for those with mild symptoms and don;t report it? Both Influenza and Covid-19 are coronavirus's, that's the similarity, but to try and contort the figures for one and not the other is like comparing apples with pears. They're both fruit but completely different. In my opinion, they have likened to the flu to stop people panicking, but the evidence is showing that it is more lethal than flu, but at the same time, is not spread as easily as flu does (or it appears so far) Lets start talking factually. Covid-19 is more lethal than Influenza, however does not spread as easily and overall deaths per population means that people should not be panicking. If we take sensible measures, we can get on top of this virus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Sheep dip is dangerous. That maybe true, but has nothing to do with Typhoid then nor Coronavirus now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: How do statistics distinguish between people recovering at home with mild flu symptoms and those recovering at home from symptoms of the common cold? Or indeed how could anyone distinguish from either of those and people with mild Coronovirus symptoms who never know they had the thing? The thing is, this focus on the mortality rate and how it is calculated is interesting but ultimately unimportant. The key point is because it is new that the relative levels of morbidity as opposed to just mortality will be higher. Consequently, it will cause a larger strain on public services because sickness amongst staff will also proportionately go up, just as one example. The ironic thing is we could actually do wIth it spreading to build more resistance in the wider population but that causes the problem in the first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, 4marsbars said: Absolutely agree about mitigating the risks and getting on with life, neither am I especially worrying about my own demise. However, the risk of a highly infectious disease that kills 3% of people in my age group (and more for older people) is unprecedented in my lifetime. We have been fortunate enough to live in a place and at a time when the prospect of dying from an infectious disease was very small. 'most people are not at risk' - I disagree. Most people are at risk of losing a loved one, a friend, a parent, a grandparent, a carer 'before their time'. This is way beyond the flu. As you say, the point is not to spread panic, but to generate awareness that we should take the handwashing, coughing and sneezing, and self-isolation advice seriously and not think 'it won't happen to me'. By taking this thing seriously, we are less likely to spread it. Your middle paragraph is a philosophical discussion point. Of course no one wants to lose a loved one. My parents are in their 70s and I obviously don't want them to get ill, let alone die. However, what is "before your time"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: If the SPFL was to go behind closed doors, how many ST holders would eschew a refund, out of interest? Any season ticket holder demanding a refund from their club is an imbecile ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Your middle paragraph is a philosophical discussion point. Of course no one wants to lose a loved one. My parents are in their 70s and I obviously don't want them to get ill, let alone die. However, what is "before your time"? 'before your time' is a commonly-used expression that means dying too young (childhood diseases, accidents, cancers, coronaries, strokes, etc,) Most of us aspire to live a healthy life to a good age and be around to see our grandchildren or even great-grandchildren. And like you, most of us want our parents and other loved ones to be around for as long as possible. I lost some good friends in their/our early thirties. Now, in my sixties, a few more of my peers have gone. I miss them. And I am not a special case; we ALL go through this. I simply don't want even more people to die young, especially when we can mitigate this. Obviously, in other times and places, people were not nearly so lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Spellczech said: but they may do. Personally I am worried about my 80+ parents getting it but other than than, not worried at all. I've never even had normal flu myself. It's not a flu stop listening to Trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: Any season ticket holder demanding a refund from their club is an imbecile ... Not sure I'd go that far but since I spend a lot more to get to games than the cost of my ST I would probably up my FoH sub with some of the money I would save. But I am comfortably off so it is easy for me to say that … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinks Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 34 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: Any season ticket holder demanding a refund from their club is an imbecile ... I would have thought any claim for refund should go to SPFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: If the SPFL was to go behind closed doors, how many ST holders would eschew a refund, out of interest? 36 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: Any season ticket holder demanding a refund from their club is an imbecile ... Playing Devil's Advocate, if no-one did then Hearts wouldn't have any sort of case to take to the SPFL. The theory is our large support is going to be an advantage at home games as we get to the end of the season and giving that up (instead of pushing for postponement) would seem folly Edited March 10, 2020 by Poseidon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, 4marsbars said: 'before your time' is a commonly-used expression that means dying too young (childhood diseases, accidents, cancers, coronaries, strokes, etc,) Most of us aspire to live a healthy life to a good age and be around to see our grandchildren or even great-grandchildren. And like you, most of us want our parents and other loved ones to be around for as long as possible. I lost some good friends in their/our early thirties. Now, in my sixties, a few more of my peers have gone. I miss them. And I am not a special case; we ALL go through this. I simply don't want even more people to die young, especially when we can mitigate this. Obviously, in other times and places, people were not nearly so lucky. Personally I am at an age where I am beginning to worry more (or at least as much) about living beyond my time than going before my time. By that I mean the risk of dementia and other age related severe disabilities that would mean spending maybe decades in a nursing home at best playing bingo or joining in communal singalongs. But of course I agree that younger people dying is tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, sinks said: I would have thought any claim for refund should go to SPFL SPFL = the clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 8 hours ago, John Gentleman said: If an old bloke aged 86, with diabetes and COPD, contracts Covid-19 then he probably doesn't have much time left on this earth. Unless you're this old bloke! https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-latest-100-year-old-man-recovers-wuhan-hubei-china-a9389306.html 27 minutes ago, sinks said: I would have thought any claim for refund should go to SPFL Clubs are being told to check their insurance policies. https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/sport/scottish-fa-and-spfl-to-be-guided-by-latest-advice-on-coronavirus/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Poseidon said: Playing Devil's Advocate, if no-one did then Hearts wouldn't have any sort of case to take to the SPFL. The theory is our large support is going to be an advantage at home games as we get to the end of the season and giving that up (instead of pushing for postponement) would seem folly I’ve seen a few people talk about postponing games, I can’t see where and when they will take place in a football calendar that’s already packed all year round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Personally I am at an age where I am beginning to worry more (or at least as much) about living beyond my time than going before my time. By that I mean the risk of dementia and other age related severe disabilities that would mean spending maybe decades in a nursing home at best playing bingo or joining in communal singalongs. But of course I agree that younger people dying is tragic. Nobody spends decades in them, around 2-3 years is the usual period of time in private care homes anyway. Bingo and singalongs are rare, more starting into space in silence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Nobody spends decades in them, around 2-3 years is the usual period of time in private care homes anyway. Bingo and singalongs are rare, more starting into space in silence. Sounds like the Wheatfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auldreekie1874 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Slovakia v Republic of Ireland now been told to play behind closed doors in their Euro play off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire-jambo Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Auldreekie1874 said: Slovakia v Republic of Ireland now been told to play behind closed doors in their Euro play off. Right now I can't see how Euro 2020 can go ahead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: I’ve seen a few people talk about postponing games, I can’t see where and when they will take place in a football calendar that’s already packed all year round? July/August and push back the start of next season would be one of the few options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: eschew Bless you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Yorkshire-jambo said: Right now I can't see how Euro 2020 can go ahead... Given that it's spread all over the place and no single country is going to take a massive hit it's probably one of the easiest to make a call on you'd think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said: Except that it is. Flu is reported to kill about 7000 a year with a reported 0.1% kill rate Covid-19 has already contributed to a reported 4000+ deaths in just over two months with a kill rate estimated around 3.5% or is it? Stats on this are like football stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy2 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 48 minutes ago, Poseidon said: July/August and push back the start of next season would be one of the few options Can’t finish 2019-20 in July/August. What about players whose contracts end in May/June? Do we get to keep them for an extra month or two or do we have replace them in order to play the last 6 or 7 games? For me, it’s either behind closed doors or null and void because the season is not complete. And no, I wouldn’t be after my ST refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, vegas-voss said: It's not a flu stop listening to Trump Um you have to see the context - Nobody said it was a flu, we were comparing it to flu, which is perfectly valid thing to do. I haven't a clue what Trump says about it. Like I'd listen to him on anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said: Except that it is. Flu is reported to kill about 7000 a year with a reported 0.1% kill rate Covid-19 has already contributed to a reported 4000+ deaths in just over two months with a kill rate estimated around 3.5% Flu-related deaths annually are a lot more than 7,000 worldwide. Certainly at least 10 times that number if not 100 times more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 hours ago, kila said: My point was the figures they are releasing for coronavirus death rate aren't including those recovering at home with mild symptoms, where as their flu figures are? Tens of thousands have flu every year without reporting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Spellczech said: or is it? Stats on this are like football stats Indeed, stats could be manipulated to suit your purpose. How about these, In the UK: - There have been 321 confirmed cases 18 have totally recovered 6 have died 297 cases are still active So of the 24 cases which are resolved, 25% have resulted in death. But I realise this is not necessarily reflective across the board, but could be a leading indicator to those vulnerable and aged. These are also interesting, closed cases showing 6% have died. Of theopen active cases, 12% are serious or critical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Tens of thousands have flu every year without reporting it. Accepted. Given that the symptoms of Covid-19 are siimilar to the flu, is it not therefore possible that there are cases unreported for that virus as well? Infact, how do these unreported cases not know if they have a mild case of Covid-19? Edited March 10, 2020 by IveSeenTheLight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 minute ago, IveSeenTheLight said: Accepted. Given that the symptoms of Covid-19 are siimilar to the flu, is it not therefore possible that there are cases unreported for that virus as well? Infact, how do these unreported cases not know if they have a mild case of Covid-19? Think we have proved that the numbers are so misleading, incomplete and inaccurate as to be useless as the basis for any opinion or actions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Tens of thousands have flu every year without reporting it. Really flu or a cold diagnosed as man flu? Many people label themselves as having had the flu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 https://www.nottinghamforest.co.uk/news/2020/march/club-statement/ This could be a game changer very quickly if it has spread among the staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Poseidon said: July/August and push back the start of next season would be one of the few options There is no leeway to shove back the season. There is no space to play even more games in the season, for top teams especially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Sir Gio said: https://www.nottinghamforest.co.uk/news/2020/march/club-statement/ This could be a game changer very quickly if it has spread among the staff It’s only a matter of time before sporting outfits are hit. Just needs one in every league to mean leagues are suspended or declared null and void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auldreekie1874 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said: https://www.nottinghamforest.co.uk/news/2020/march/club-statement/ This could be a game changer very quickly if it has spread among the staff Just watched the report on SSN. They also mentioned that he has recently been present at Forest v Millwall and Arsenal v Olympiakos matches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 22 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said: Can’t finish 2019-20 in July/August. What about players whose contracts end in May/June? Do we get to keep them for an extra month or two or do we have replace them in order to play the last 6 or 7 games? For me, it’s either behind closed doors or null and void because the season is not complete. And no, I wouldn’t be after my ST refund. maybe best behind closed doors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said: Nobody spends decades in them, around 2-3 years is the usual period of time in private care homes anyway. Bingo and singalongs are rare, more starting into space in silence. A bit like work then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said: Can’t finish 2019-20 in July/August. What about players whose contracts end in May/June? Do we get to keep them for an extra month or two or do we have replace them in order to play the last 6 or 7 games? For me, it’s either behind closed doors or null and void because the season is not complete. And no, I wouldn’t be after my ST refund. Definitely. But if players catch it null and void is a viable option. Edited March 10, 2020 by Pasquale for King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, deejtee said: Really flu or a cold diagnosed as man flu? Many people label themselves as having had the flu. Indeed. I think I have had real flu once in my life. I literally felt like I was dying and I would have been about 24 at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, davemclaren said: A bit like work then. Speak for yourself Dave, I’m usually busy doing something or winding up some Hibs ...E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 17 hours ago, weehammy said: Yeah, the EU has things totally under control. Oh wait, isn’t Italy in the EU? I was joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Definitely. But if players catch it null and void is a viable option. Only option. One player catches it and it’s 14 days isolation for entire squad and back room staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 minute ago, soonbe110 said: Only option. One player catches it and it’s 14 days isolation for entire squad and back room staff. I wonder why that has not happened to the Scottish women's rugby team. Seems very inconsistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Just now, Nookie Bear said: I wonder why that has not happened to the Scottish women's rugby team. Seems very inconsistent. Only their injured players were impacted. They were all at Scotstoun for treatment. Believe one of our medical staff was there as well and is now in isolation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) . Edited March 10, 2020 by kila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: I wonder why that has not happened to the Scottish women's rugby team. Seems very inconsistent. I think they did it with 7 players irc. Will be interesting to see what happens about the Forest owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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