They Can't Relegate Us (Legally)

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Expunged seems to be the vogue word.

 

Reality is,  it may be the only way forward legally in an incomplete League where the rules are made from the outset, not at a sudden conclusion 

[3fingersreid]

Expanding the Scottish Premiership to 14 teams to save Hearts would be "a joke", says former St Mirren chairman Stewart Gilmour.
 

from a man who’s club handed over their shitey wee stadium  to celtic to play a game , now that’s a joke . 

Just strengthens my absolute disdain for that football club and everything and everyone connected to it 

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

Expanding the Scottish Premiership to 14 teams to save Hearts would be "a joke", says former St Mirren chairman Stewart Gilmour.
 

from a man who’s club handed over their shitey wee stadium  to celtic to play a game , now that’s a joke . 

Just strengthens my absolute disdain for that football club and everything and everyone connected to it 

To “save Hearts”

 

We weren’t even at the split yet. Hope St Mirren go bust. Wouldn’t be missed by enough people for it to matter. Celtic sympathising scum.

[manaliveits105]

If we had beaten St Liedoon 1-0 instead of losing would his opinion been the same I wonder 

Feck him Feck the weegia and Feck St Liedoon 

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18348611.hearts-told-quit-spfl-cant-accept-relegation-ruling/

 

What the guy is saying is that the SPFL is above the law, which is nonsense of course.

Declares his confict of interest at start of meeting. Asked to leave room immediatley. End of chat

😂😂😂

[NB GIN]

On 13/03/2020 at 10:30, JJ93 said:

Legally speaking, they cannot relegate us.

 

If we take a step back from being fans for a moment and realise that Hearts is a business and we have 24 points to play for and are only 6 points away from absolute safety and 4 points away from a play-off place, it would be totally inequitable to relegate a team under these circumstances and consequentially cause significant economic loss. It would be a law-suit waiting to happen.

 

If they end the league and relegate us there is no doubt in my mind that this would be seen as an unfair punishment on Hearts - regardless of current league form. It is highly unlikely that there are rules governing this predicament but they are not needed in this situation for Hearts, or whoever else, to prevail.

 

Whether the SFA take legal advice on this issue is another question.

I think you will find whatever the SPL decide will be the decision. May well go to court but the decision will most likely stand. 
If this virus is still around June time I think we are down. 

[132goals1958]

59 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

If we had beaten St Liedoon 1-0 instead of losing would his opinion been the same I wonder 

Feck him Feck the weegia and Feck St Liedoon 

 

How good would it be if we resumed the league,played them on the last game of the season and they were relegated on goal difference.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

I think you will find whatever the SPL decide will be the decision. May well go to court but the decision will most likely stand. 
If this virus is still around June time I think we are down. 

Just a gut feeling NB,  or do you have a legal background?

[TexasAndy]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I'm sure he would be of the same view if we had won against them.....

Absolutely.  It's funny how selfish opinions can be.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

 

How good would it be if we resumed the league,played them on the last game of the season and they were relegated on goal difference.

Too close for comfort I would say. Not that I like to wish ill on anyone, but the boy should be careful, would imagine they would not be so well placed to survive this nuclear event

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

People understandably look at matters from a Hearts perspective, but there are so many untied loose ends to make an outright decision. There are still play offs to be considered for example as part of the rules, if they were not played out, then how can that be, when they are part of the make up of promotion and relegation in this country.

 

The main man at the SFA is heavily linked to Partick Thistle, would be a real heartache for him to see Thistle go, when their game in hand was never played.

 

If it wasn't for the Celitc Rangers issues, I am certain expunged would be the way forward with so much uncertainty particularly around play off positions in all divisions

[132goals1958]

2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Too close for comfort I would say. Not that I like to wish ill on anyone, but the boy should be careful, would imagine they would not be so well placed to survive this nuclear event

 

Gilmour,s comments are based on self preservation as he knows they can be dragged in to a survival battle. The idiot should at least be up front rather than telling us to find another league to play in. If the administration rules are relaxed (which I have no problem with) do we then say if we manage our finances prudently then we face relegation.  

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

If it wasn't for the Celitc Rangers issues, I am certain expunged would be the way forward with so much uncertainty particularly around play off positions in all divisions

Indeed. In the tail that wags the dog league, shit like a decade of league wins in a row (making a mockery of the league in itself) take precedence over things like clubs surviving.

[frankblack]

12 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Indeed. In the tail that wags the dog league, shit like a decade of league wins in a row (making a mockery of the league in itself) take precedence over things like clubs surviving.

 

Lets take Sevco out of the reckoning here as since they haven't won a major trophy in their history, they are irelevant.

[IveSeenTheLight]

9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Lets take Sevco out of the reckoning here as since they haven't won a major trophy in their history, they are irelevant.

👏

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, Barack said:

Don't think it would be...

 

It absolutely would be, for so many reasons. Downside - people are used to playing in winter and don’t like change.. 

[Beast Boy]

14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Lets take Sevco out of the reckoning here as since they haven't won a major trophy in their history, they are irelevant.

Not in the eyes of the dog unfortunately.

[frankblack]

Just now, Special Officer Doofy said:

Not in the eyes of the dog unfortunately.

 

Even Craig Whyte has confirmed they aren't the same club.

[Beast Boy]

12 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Even Craig Whyte has confirmed they aren't the same club.

I know that, you know that, Craig Whyte knows that, there’s probably tribesmen in the deepest darkest parts of the Amazon rainforest who know that. The SFA and SPFL like to pretend it is not the case though... and as a result they still allow themselves to be wagged by that particular tail.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Special Officer Doofy

[alwaysthereinspirit]

33 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

People understandably look at matters from a Hearts perspective, but there are so many untied loose ends to make an outright decision. There are still play offs to be considered for example as part of the rules, if they were not played out, then how can that be, when they are part of the make up of promotion and relegation in this country.

 

The main man at the SFA is heavily linked to Partick Thistle, would be a real heartache for him to see Thistle go, when their game in hand was never played.

 

If it wasn't for the Celitc Rangers issues, I am certain expunged would be the way forward with so much uncertainty particularly around play off positions in all divisions

This. All well and fine promoting Utd and relegating us. Doesn't do much for 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even Dunfermline, Arbroath or Morton. And thats just one league.

[Ehllhayapeh]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Play out the current season starting September,  start a new 14 team division in March 2020 and play through the summer would be the best outcome..

 

a new fresh product, playing when the weather is generally better..

 

turn a huge negative into a positive.. 

 

of course this is to our benefit but I also think it would be of benefit to Scottish football.

Agree.

 

Aim for Jan start giving rest of year to complete this season. If not possible reconstruct the leagues and play through summer from march.

 

Not only will it trial summer football but it then aligns the seasons with a winter Qatar 2022 world cup.

 

Im in favour of reconstruction and a 14 team league even without covid contingency. Teams need breathing space to blood young talent. More chance of that in a bigger league.

 

Id move scotland to a 3 x 14 team league structure.

 

 

 

[3fingersreid]

2 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

To “save Hearts”

 

We weren’t even at the split yet. Hope St Mirren go bust. Wouldn’t be missed by enough people for it to matter. Celtic sympathising scum.

Correct and yet some still won’t accept they didn’t try a ****ing jot in 86 . Odious club . 
Even when they were competing with Clydebank in the old championship , I sided with the bankies, any team with Fitzpatrick , mcgarvie etc can GTF 

[Gorgiewave]

3 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I'm sure he would be of the same view if we had won against them.....

We can be relegated if we're awarded the 1985-86 league title.

[Gizmo]

4 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I'm surprised they didn't follow up with the rehabilitation treatment and plan to include no need for stretchers, just give the player a piggy-back off the pitch and recommendations for the player to go our, get blootered and cause breach of the peace whilst recovering.

It was a horrendous tackle, no doubt about it, but my point stands in it was exacerbated by the player himself and the medical team following the incident 

You have evidence of this you can share, as it sounds like retrospective victim blaming. 
 

38 minutes ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

Agree.

 

Aim for Jan start giving rest of year to complete this season. If not possible reconstruct the leagues and play through summer from march.

 

Not only will it trial summer football but it then aligns the seasons with a winter Qatar 2022 world cup.

 

Im in favour of reconstruction and a 14 team league even without covid contingency. Teams need breathing space to blood young talent. More chance of that in a bigger league.

 

Id move scotland to a 3 x 14 team league structure.

 

 

 

We cannot decree the league done at this stage with games to play and outcomes not decided.

Equally, I don't believe we can restart the league - these will not be the same teams/squads that complete the remaining fixtures. Again, doesn't feel right to me. 

I definitely agree with trialing 3 x 14 team leagues (hopefully added to perhaps some rule to help promote developing talent rather than benching it). Also I think summer football makes sense because, until we have a vaccine, this virus could become seasonal and we might not be out of the woods entirely come December. 

 

13 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

We can be relegated if we're awarded the 1985-86 league title.

Ooft. Gilmour is going to need a tub of Savlon, the Celtic loving *****. 

[alicante jambo]

1 hour ago, 3fingersreid said:

Correct and yet some still won’t accept they didn’t try a ****ing jot in 86 . Odious club . 
Even when they were competing with Clydebank in the old championship , I sided with the bankies, any team with Fitzpatrick , mcgarvie etc can GTF 

I am with you here 100%.

[IveSeenTheLight]

4 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

You have evidence of this you can share, as it sounds like retrospective victim blaming. 

 

 

I can't recall anytime seeing a player getting piggy-backed off the pitch since that tackle. I'm sure there is plenty of evidence showing that they use stretchers

As for the breach of the peace and getting drunk, it's available on the internet

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

8 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

 

I can't recall anytime seeing a player getting piggy-backed off the pitch since that tackle. I'm sure there is plenty of evidence showing that they use stretchers

As for the breach of the peace and getting drunk, it's available on the internet

His mental health had clearly suffered too then for this vicious assault

[IveSeenTheLight]

4 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

His mental health had clearly suffered too then for this vicious assault

 

I accept no doubt, that would have played a part.

He apparently broke down a number of times during his recovery, not helped by what would be construed as unprofessionalism during his rehabilitation nowadays.

 

I've accepted it was a horrible tackle, that in no doubt was the root cause, however the medical team and himself could have helped to make a swifter recovery and indeed potentially helped resurrect his career better than they were able to, because of his lack of focus.

I heard in later years, he came to accept the requirements to deal with his knee injury and that the work and diligence required to support the muscles around the knee which eventually meant he was able to return as a player.

[Dunks]

17 hours ago, 12XU said:

For what it’s worth Scottish Rugby have declared season null and void - no promotion or relegation 

 

And that's with one of the leagues already 'won' and another subject to a play-off final.

 

Options were put to an all member vote. One vote per club. 

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Dunks said:

 

And that's with one of the leagues already 'won' and another subject to a play-off final.

 

Options were put to an all member vote. One vote per club. 

 

Thats the Edinburgh Festival and Fringe cancelled this year.  Seriously, if anyone thinks football is starting in August or September they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Null and void the whole season like the SRU bar the league cup, which was played to a conclusion.

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Imagine these mhank fuds having to sing 9.75 in a row.

 

Shitehawks.

 

Be worth it just for that. Smelly *******s.

[IveSeenTheLight]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Seriously, if anyone thinks football is starting in August or September they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

I can foresee us being in a 3 month lockdown (April, May & June) with the earliest restrictions starting to lift in July.

How quickly will the social distancing be eased to allow stadiums of fans to watch games who knows, but potentially, do they look at a period of closed doors games. Potentially, I could see that happening in August / September, but thats likely to be the earliest and with a huge caveat on how well the country deals with the virus in the coming months.

 

China had a 2 month lockdown and appear to be on top of the virus, as with South Korea who are managing without a lockdown now.

They are both still getting new cases, but at a far more manageable level

[Drumelzier]

1 hour ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Imagine these mhank fuds having to sing 9.75 in a row.

 

Shitehawks.

 

  Nice one Jonno 

[indianajones]

8 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I can foresee us being in a 3 month lockdown (April, May & June) with the earliest restrictions starting to lift in July.

How quickly will the social distancing be eased to allow stadiums of fans to watch games who knows, but potentially, do they look at a period of closed doors games. Potentially, I could see that happening in August / September, but thats likely to be the earliest and with a huge caveat on how well the country deals with the virus in the coming months.

 

China had a 2 month lockdown and appear to be on top of the virus, as with South Korea who are managing without a lockdown now.

They are both still getting new cases, but at a far more manageable level

 

Its probably already been made but social distancing wouldnt be a problem at Pittodrie anyway. 

[JJ93]

3 hours ago, NB GIN said:

I think you will find whatever the SPL decide will be the decision. May well go to court but the decision will most likely stand. 
If this virus is still around June time I think we are down. 

I can't be bothered to repeat what I've already said to other posters but no, what they say isn't final.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

52 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Thats the Edinburgh Festival and Fringe cancelled this year.  Seriously, if anyone thinks football is starting in August or September they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Null and void the whole season like the SRU bar the league cup, which was played to a conclusion.

Tend to agree, 2020 seems to be getting expunged let alone small details like sports events.

 

International travel, probably going to be difficult for European competitions for example. Logistics, different govts may apply different laws or regulations for a good time to come, will make life challenging for another 12 months, until a vaccine occurs. 

 

Like dogs and rabies, to get into another country you will have to be able to prove you are not a carrier and isolate again. 

 

Local football, grassroots should be able to restart first, professional sport and large gatherings may have to wait a good while longer.

 

Unless liveliehood overtakes life

[Australis]

The Edinburgh festival this year has just been cancelled and that takes place in August

Scottish football authorities still cant make a decision, when are we supposed to play the remaining matches for this season if that is to happen?

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Australis...... said:

The Edinburgh festival this year has just been cancelled and that takes place in August

Scottish football authorities still cant make a decision, when are we supposed to play the remaining matches for this season if that is to happen?

Don’t worry Fraser Wishart has it under control. 🙄

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Thats the Edinburgh Festival and Fringe cancelled this year.  Seriously, if anyone thinks football is starting in August or September they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Null and void the whole season like the SRU bar the league cup, which was played to a conclusion.

Apparently, we have all invested so much into season, emotionally and financially, that nilling and voiding season would cause unrest as football is so important.

 

In the real world, it is all about money especially to owners, players and hangers on. As long as they get paid millions, they couldn't care whether the normal man or woman in the street has a job, can pay their mortgages or even lives. 

 

Said id it a couple of weeks ago, football has no right to demand any pay out from government. There are so many more deserving places for bail outs, grants to go to, than football.

 

[Dunks]

All Champions League and Europa League matches have been suspended "until further notice" by Uefa.

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I accept no doubt, that would have played a part.

He apparently broke down a number of times during his recovery, not helped by what would be construed as unprofessionalism during his rehabilitation nowadays.

 

I've accepted it was a horrible tackle, that in no doubt was the root cause, however the medical team and himself could have helped to make a swifter recovery and indeed potentially helped resurrect his career better than they were able to, because of his lack of focus.

I heard in later years, he came to accept the requirements to deal with his knee injury and that the work and diligence required to support the muscles around the knee which eventually meant he was able to return as a player.

You make it sound like a freak incident and that Durrant and rangers were at fault for him not playing again about 3 weeks later. 
 

It was an assault, a clear attempt to end a career and it says a lot about you that you can’t admit that. 

[Ehllhayapeh]

3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Thats the Edinburgh Festival and Fringe cancelled this year.  Seriously, if anyone thinks football is starting in August or September they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Null and void the whole season like the SRU bar the league cup, which was played to a conclusion.

Null and Void Sir Lawrence of Shanklands goal scoring exploits!!?? What madness is this?

 

Null and Void is the quickest way to financial oblivion. People will be entitled to refunds all over the shop if that happens.

 

Its got to be played out or reconstruction. Those are the fairest outcomes. You cannot punish Hearts or equally United when so much of the season is already played. And voiding is just a hornets nest of legal claims.

[frankblack]

Just now, Ehllhayapeh said:

Null and Void Sir Lawrence of Shanklands goal scoring exploits!!?? What madness is this?

 

Null and Void is the quickest way to financial oblivion. People will be entitled to refunds all over the shop if that happens.

 

Its got to be played out or reconstruction. Those are the fairest outcomes. You cannot punish Hearts or equally United when so much of the season is already played. And voiding is just a hornets nest of legal claims.

 

The SRU have done it for rugby.

 

Playing out those games is completely impractical whenever footbal resumes, which might not be this year and won't be with the same players.  Reconstruction would be a fair outcome, but they might get their asses sued by the TV companies like BT who probably have a few games due.

 

Then again if they relegate us and Partick in your league then there will be a few legal challenges before football can continue.

[ericb]

8 minutes ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

Null and Void Sir Lawrence of Shanklands goal scoring exploits!!?? What madness is this?

 

Null and Void is the quickest way to financial oblivion. People will be entitled to refunds all over the shop if that happens.

 

Its got to be played out or reconstruction. Those are the fairest outcomes. You cannot punish Hearts or equally United when so much of the season is already played. And voiding is just a hornets nest of legal claims.

 

I've suggested already on this thread what seems to me pretty simple. When it is agreed that football can resume, whenever that may be, allow a mini pre-season, then complete this season, have another mini pre-season, then kick off next season. Turn the league cup back into a knock out competition for all teams and play Sat/Wed as much as is possible (excluding international dates). So for example assuming working restrictions are lifted on May and games can commence in June......

 

May 2020 - Pre-Season

Jun-Jul 2020 - 2019/20 conclusion

Aug - Pre-Season

Sep - May 2020/21 (no winter break)

Edited April 1, 2020 by ericb

[frankblack]

13 minutes ago, ericb said:

 

I've suggested already on this thread what seems to me pretty simple. When it is agreed that football can resume, whenever that may be, allow a mini pre-season, then complete this season, have another mini pre-season, then kick off next season. Turn the league cup back into a knock out competition for all teams and play Sat/Wed as much as is possible (excluding international dates). So for example assuming working restrictions are lifted on May and games can commence in June......

 

May 2020 - Pre-Season

Jun-Jul 2020 - 2019/20 conclusion

Aug - Pre-Season

Sep - May 2020/21 (no winter break)

 

Complete nonsense and impractical in every way.

 

You will be talking about an incomplete season being resumed after about 9 or 10 months with different players and the stronger teams being able to buy better players while others have to sell half their team to recover costs.

 

How many games in a row do you expect to get played, and I assume you expect the Scottish Cup (carried over), League Cup, and new Scottish Cup and International fixtures to fit in there too?

Edited April 1, 2020 by frankblack

[Nookie Bear]

2 hours ago, Australis...... said:

The Edinburgh festival this year has just been cancelled and that takes place in August

Scottish football authorities still cant make a decision, when are we supposed to play the remaining matches for this season if that is to happen?

The Festival involves hundreds of thousands of people travelling , sharing rooms at night and sitting in large groups night after night. Football can be played without fans, although of course that is not ideal. 
 

 

[frankblack]

10 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

The Festival involves hundreds of thousands of people travelling , sharing rooms at night and sitting in large groups night after night. Football can be played without fans, although of course that is not ideal. 
 

 

 

Its not only not ideal, its unviable.  Clubs can't sell season tickets based on games they will be banned from attending, and can't survive without the season ticket and gate income as TV money in Scotland is piss poor.

Edited April 1, 2020 by frankblack

[Mikey1874]

19 hours ago, Poseidon said:

Difficulty for a lot of teams is selling STs now to tide them over. People may be reluctant to buy now for something they wont get to use til November and unsure about what league they'll be in. 

 

17 hours ago, ericb said:

If they're fans they'll buy, particularly if it's mandated it's the same for everyone

 

I'm a fan.

 

I won't be buying season tickets. 

[Mikey1874]

39 minutes ago, ericb said:

 

I've suggested already on this thread what seems to me pretty simple. When it is agreed that football can resume, whenever that may be, allow a mini pre-season, then complete this season, have another mini pre-season, then kick off next season. Turn the league cup back into a knock out competition for all teams and play Sat/Wed as much as is possible (excluding international dates). So for example assuming working restrictions are lifted on May and games can commence in June......

 

May 2020 - Pre-Season

Jun-Jul 2020 - 2019/20 conclusion

Aug - Pre-Season

Sep - May 2020/21 (no winter break)

 

Add 4 months to that. 1% chance of playing any more league games. 

[Nookie Bear]

13 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Its not only not ideal, its unviable.  Clubs can't sell season tickets based on games they will be banned from attending, and can't survive without the season ticket and gate income as TV money in Scotland is piss poor.

It would just be a means to an end to ensure a modicum of sporting fairness (imo)

 

To be honest, until we have a clue as to when we can start it’s just a theoretical discussion.