They Can't Relegate Us (Legally)

[Beast Boy]

Not a hope of games being played in May. The curve we are on is terrifying. 500 odd deaths in the last 24 hours. Four weeks time we are not going to be having public gatherings.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

Null and Void Sir Lawrence of Shanklands goal scoring exploits!!?? What madness is this?

 

Null and Void is the quickest way to financial oblivion. People will be entitled to refunds all over the shop if that happens.

 

Its got to be played out or reconstruction. Those are the fairest outcomes. You cannot punish Hearts or equally United when so much of the season is already played. And voiding is just a hornets nest of legal claims.

Not completing on the rules is a bigger Hornets nest.

 

Champions League handouts and tv contracts win this,  nothing else 

[Montgomery Brewster]

20 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Add 4 months to that. 1% chance of playing any more league games. 

Correct. Nobody will be going anywhere in May 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Not a hope of games being played in May. The curve we are on is terrifying. 500 odd deaths in the last 24 hours. Four weeks time we are not going to be having public gatherings.

4 days maybe for public gatherings. 

 

Transport made particular mention tonight. More cars on the road today. Couple of local shops near me, heavy with traffic when really they are walking distance bar very elderly people,  not many in our community. 

 

People still not realizing gravity and stupidity of going about just to get out

[ericb]

28 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Add 4 months to that. 1% chance of playing any more league games. 

And? You are talking in normal circumstances, these are not normal times, if you stagger seasons they will catch up eventually, even if they are out of sync for the next 4 years.

[Beast Boy]

8 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

4 days maybe for public gatherings. 

 

Transport made particular mention tonight. More cars on the road today. Couple of local shops near me, heavy with traffic when really they are walking distance bar very elderly people,  not many in our community. 

 

People still not realizing gravity and stupidity of going about just to get out

It’s metal. If you look at Italy’s curve and compare it to ours adjusting for the 14 days difference of when the first deaths occurred there, we are looking a similar situation to over there in a fortnight... Cant believe anyone thinks we are going to be going to the football two weeks after that. Two hopes of that, and one of them is Bob.

 

This season is done. Next season? Who knows...

 

Sorry to hear about the behaviour of folk near you. Round my way folk are being a bit more sensible. Surprised me actually.

[frankblack]

8 minutes ago, ericb said:

And? You are talking in normal circumstances, these are not normal times, if you stagger seasons they will catch up eventually, even if they are out of sync for the next 4 years.

 

No they won't - you have to factor in the close season and European Championship and World Cup tournaments plus other international commitments, and the fact we start the league cup group stages and european qualifiers pre-season.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

6 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

It’s metal. If you look at Italy’s curve and compare it to ours adjusting for the 14 days difference of when the first deaths occurred there, we are looking a similar situation to over there in a fortnight... Cant believe anyone thinks we are going to be going to the football two weeks after that. Two hopes of that, and one of them is Bob.

 

This season is done. Next season? Who knows...

 

Sorry to hear about the behaviour of folk near you. Round my way folk are being a bit more sensible. Surprised me actually.

Very few cases up here has given a false sense of security I think. 

 

Esplanade packed last 2 Sundays boiling my piss.

 

Care worker coming home was in tears,  the selfish nature of it all. Some genuinely don't seem to believe lives are at risk 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Sir Gio said:

Very few cases up here has given a false sense of security I think. 

 

Esplanade packed last 2 Sundays boiling my piss.

 

Care worker coming home was in tears,  the selfish nature of it all. Some genuinely don't seem to believe lives are at risk 

 

The police should get the right to dish out fines on the spot to these clowns.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

Police should be given the powers to use water-cannon's.

 

I was going to suggest tasers but thought that might have seemed extreme.

[ericb]

14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

No they won't - you have to factor in the close season and European Championship and World Cup tournaments plus other international commitments, and the fact we start the league cup group stages and european qualifiers pre-season.

So what's your suggestion?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The police should get the right to dish out fines on the spot to these clowns.

I'd back them. 

 

Taking a walk along the beach is no longer acceptable if you have to drive there.

 

Grossly unfair on the health services 

[ericb]

16 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

No they won't - you have to factor in the close season and European Championship and World Cup tournaments plus other international commitments, and the fact we start the league cup group stages and european qualifiers pre-season.

I did factor in a close season, and it wouldn't be an issue if the schedule was implemented Europe wide 

[jock _turd]

To be fair the SFA and SPL are doing what they do well... making a punt of it ! I honestly think there are two reasons firstly they do not want to have to tell Celtic that they have not won the league and secondly they are waiting to see what happens down in the EPL . There is no chance whatsoever of football being played to paying customer maybe even before the end of this year and that is not being pessimistic! They nee to get their collective heads out of their arses and call the season null and void... it fits the set of circumstances perfectly no team can claim the right to be awarded anything you win things not have them bestowed upon you. There are far too many games remaining to give any team the honour of being champions just because they happen to be at the top of the division at this present moment in time.

[Gizmo]

6 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

 

I can't recall anytime seeing a player getting piggy-backed off the pitch since that tackle. I'm sure there is plenty of evidence showing that they use stretchers

As for the breach of the peace and getting drunk, it's available on the internet

I was meaning, specifically, bad treatment etc leading to a less than optimal outcome. 

 

[Hearts007]

1 hour ago, jock _turd said:

To be fair the SFA and SPL are doing what they do well... making a punt of it ! I honestly think there are two reasons firstly they do not want to have to tell Celtic that they have not won the league and secondly they are waiting to see what happens down in the EPL . There is no chance whatsoever of football being played to paying customer maybe even before the end of this year and that is not being pessimistic! They nee to get their collective heads out of their arses and call the season null and void... it fits the set of circumstances perfectly no team can claim the right to be awarded anything you win things not have them bestowed upon you. There are far too many games remaining to give any team the honour of being champions just because they happen to be at the top of the division at this present moment in time.

This is where am at too

they cant pick and choose which scenarios to play out -for instance.

If they crown the mhanks champions then they would need to relegate us if they relegate us they need to have the play offs( which wont happen)

so its champions,relegation and play offs or nothing

[maroonsgotop]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

Very few cases up here has given a false sense of security I think. 

 

Esplanade packed last 2 Sundays boiling my piss.

 

Care worker coming home was in tears,  the selfish nature of it all. Some genuinely don't seem to believe lives are at risk 

totally agree. sadly lots of people haven't got a scoobies and are carrying on as if it wont affect them.

 

the number of deaths is only now starting to pick up and I fear this will accelerate over the next couple of weeks. Likely to be 10,000 dead by next weekend the ways things are going and many more after that.

 

Not a chance any football is getting played before September (unless it's behind closed doors) 

 

Football and sport is a very low priority in all this but sadly lots of people employed in Football seem to be living in their very own bubble devoid from reality.

 

The NHS workers must be in total dispair with the behaviour from a sizeable number of people.

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, Hearts007 said:

This is where am at too

they cant pick and choose which scenarios to play out -for instance.

If they crown the mhanks champions then they would need to relegate us if they relegate us they need to have the play offs( which wont happen)

so its champions,relegation and play offs or nothing

 

 

Nah. 

 

You can stop the season, celtic awarded title as top at time with a denotation. 

 

Relegation stopped. 

 

It's about mitigating the negatives. 

 

Awarding celtic the title does no damage to anyone. It's just a title. 

 

Relegating a team is a material and tangible change with real life economic cost. 

 

Awarding the title and relegation are completely different things and are not linked in any way. 

 

They should be treated differently, whatever the outcomes. 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Hearts007]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Nah. 

 

You can stop the season, celtic awarded title as top at time with a denotation. 

 

Relegation stopped. 

 

It's about mitigating the negatives. 

 

Awarding celtic the title does no damage to anyone. It's just a title. 

 

Relegating a team is a material and tangible change with real life economic cost. 

 

Awarding the title and relegation are completely different things and are not linked in any way. 

 

The should be treated differently, whatever the outcomes. 

 

each to their own..i say void it

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Hearts007 said:

each to their own..i say void it

 

It's an option, definitely. 

 

But my point is that both champions and relegation aren't linked. 

Both are very different. 

 

 

[Hearts007]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

It's an option, definitely. 

 

But my point is that both champions and relegation aren't linked. 

Both are very different. 

 

 

of course..... but if it was null and void how many would actually care given with wots goin on in the world

Edited April 1, 2020 by Hearts007

[DETTY29]

2 hours ago, Barack said:

Police should be given the powers to use water-cannon's.

Hot water and soap.

[Diadora Van Basten]

I think that this season should be declared null and void. The precedent for this is based on what happens when a match is abandoned.

 

Legally the principal of Frustration were a contact is no longer binding due to the effect of an unforeseen circumstance would be the easiest way to unravel this situation.

 

Anything else would be just making it up as we go along.

[Hearts007]

1 minute ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I think that this season should be declared null and void. The precedent for this is based on what happens when a match is abandoned.

 

Legally the principal of Frustration were a contact is no longer binding due to the effect of an unforeseen circumstance would be the easiest way to unravel this situation.

 

Anything else would be just making it up as we go along.

Is that not what Dungcaster has always done anyway?

[frankblack]

2 hours ago, ericb said:

I did factor in a close season, and it wouldn't be an issue if the schedule was implemented Europe wide 

 

That makes the assumption all countries come out of this at the same time, which is highly unlikely unless that time coincides with a vaccine being globally available.

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Nah. 

 

You can stop the season, celtic awarded title as top at time with a denotation. 

 

Relegation stopped. 

 

It's about mitigating the negatives. 

 

Awarding celtic the title does no damage to anyone. It's just a title. 

 

Relegating a team is a material and tangible change with real life economic cost. 

 

Awarding the title and relegation are completely different things and are not linked in any way. 

 

They should be treated differently, whatever the outcomes. 

 

 

No way would you be saying that if it was St Mirren bottom and not us. I also doubt you would be saying it if rangers were top either.

[Bazzas right boot]

59 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

No way would you be saying that if it was St Mirren bottom and not us. I also doubt you would be saying it if rangers were top either.

 

Your getting my opinion mixed up with the options. 

 

Null and void across the board is an option. 

Finishing as is is an option. 

Declaring champions but no relegation is also an option. 

 

Clearly relegation comes with tangible and practical matters as opposed to declaring champions which does not. 

Taking away the emotion, there is a clear difference and the two are not linked in any way either unless you want them to be. 

 

If the prize money is dished out on current positions, then celtic being champions or not in practical and tangible terms to the business side means nothing in all honesty. 

 

Relegating someone has practical and economical issues so is far more dicey from a practical, business and legal point of view. 

 

Awarding titles (or not) will just upset fans. 

 

My opinion is irrelevant in this and no matter what happens folk will be unhappy. 

 

If the season cannot be completed. 

 

I would. 

Declare celtic champions with a denotation. 

Euro places on current league positions. 

Prize money on current league positions. 

No relegation, league extended to accommodate Utd and ICT even for just 1 season. 

 

Imo that mitigates the most damage. 

 

Null and void carries big issues with it in general imo. 

 

Fans want TV refunds, St refunds. 

Players stats?  Spring to mind. 

 

But thier are various options, all have positives and negatives. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Hearts007 said:

of course..... but if it was null and void how many would actually care given with wots goin on in the world

 

Yeah I agree but prize money, tv money, sponsor money etc.... 

Players lost a year of their career. 

It has complications when you break it down. 

 

[H2]

January 2021, resumption of 2019-20 season.

[H2]

13 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

Expanding the Scottish Premiership to 14 teams to save Hearts would be "a joke", says former St Mirren chairman Stewart Gilmour.
 

from a man who’s club handed over their shitey wee stadium  to celtic to play a game , now that’s a joke . 

Just strengthens my absolute disdain for that football club and everything and everyone connected to it 

The joke is Stewart Gilmore who obviously can not understand the rules of engagement. For a team to be relegated all the games in the league need to be completed. 

He just sounds like an anti Hearts bitter man. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

No way would you be saying that if it was St Mirren bottom and not us. I also doubt you would be saying it if rangers were top either.

 

Hearts fan appears to argue in favour of Hearts getting relegated when 6 points off 9th with 24 points still up for grabs. This forum never ceases to amaze me.

 

Here's a reminder of what can happen in football - Top 10 Greatest Relegation Escapes Of All Time. I don't even think ours would threaten any list like this if we did it from this position against the teams we'd be playing against.

Edited April 2, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[chuck berrys hairline]

7 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I would. 

Declare celtic champions with a denotation. 

Euro places on current league positions. 

Prize money on current league positions. 

No relegation, league extended to accommodate Utd and ICT even for just 1 season. 

 

Imo that mitigates the most damage. 

 

 

What use is an 8 team championship 😂 this solution just creates a cluster**** for leagues below ours.

 

Just null and viod the whole lot

[David McCaig]

3 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Hearts fan appears to argue in favour of Hearts getting relegated when 6 points off 9th with 24 points still up for grabs. This forum never ceases to amaze me.

 

Here's a reminder of what can happen in football - Top 10 Greatest Relegation Escapes Of All Time. I don't even think ours would threaten any list like this if we did it from this position against the teams we'd be playing against.

To emphasise how the League Table so far is not indicative of a level playing field... St Mirren have played one less match v the Old Firm and played Hearts twice at home with only one visit to Tynecastle.

 

If the fixtures had been reversed and Hearts had played St Mirren twice at home to once away there is every likelihood that we would be above St Mirren in the table.

 

Until every side has played each other home and away the League is inherently unbalanced and not a like for like comparison of performance.

 

Completing the League before contracts expire at the end of May (end of June is the English date) is clearly impossible, so therefore voiding the League is the only fair and logical outcome.

 

The claim that TV companies can claim money back is surely a red herring as well... Would they be returning advertising revenue and subscriptions for games shown - I don't think so!!

[OldGorgie]

It’s fairly obvious from the West Coast gossip that the SPFL is going to declare the season finished with Celtic becoming Champions and us relegated. Dundee Utd will get promoted and they deserve it, otherwise it makes a mockery of sport. Do we deserve to get relegated? 

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, OldGorgie said:

It’s fairly obvious from the West Coast gossip that the SPFL is going to declare the season finished with Celtic becoming Champions and us relegated. Dundee Utd will get promoted and they deserve it, otherwise it makes a mockery of sport. Do we deserve to get relegated? 

Of course we don't deserve to be relegated. See my post above.  St Mirren are above us by virtue of having played us twice in Paisley as opposed to once in Edinburgh.  

[OldGorgie]

2 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Of course we don't deserve to be relegated. See my post above.  St Mirren are above us by virtue of having played us twice in Paisley as opposed to once in Edinburgh.  

This season has been one of the worst I have ever seen in over 40 years of watching Hearts. Even worse than the dire 70’s. 

[Beast Boy]

15 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

It’s fairly obvious from the West Coast gossip that the SPFL is going to declare the season finished with Celtic becoming Champions and us relegated. Dundee Utd will get promoted and they deserve it, otherwise it makes a mockery of sport. Do we deserve to get relegated? 

I don’t think that’s what is going to happen at all. Nor should it. We absolutely do not deserve to be relegated, no.

[David McCaig]

12 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

This season has been one of the worst I have ever seen in over 40 years of watching Hearts. Even worse than the dire 70’s. 

I don't disagree with that, but relegation based on an incomplete and unbalanced fixture would still be completely unfair.

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I don’t think that’s what is going to happen at all. Nor should it. We absolutely do not deserve to be relegated, no.

 

If the SPFL were to do that, the legal action we could invoke could tie the league up in litigation for a number of months, further delaying any resumption of football and costing clubs more income.

[Des Lynam]

28 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

It’s fairly obvious from the West Coast gossip that the SPFL is going to declare the season finished with Celtic becoming Champions and us relegated. Dundee Utd will get promoted and they deserve it, otherwise it makes a mockery of sport. Do we deserve to get relegated? 

 

Of course we don’t deserve to be relegated as the season isn’t finished. However if relegation is to happen then looking at it logically that should be us. 

 

The west coast gossip? The SFA are only concerned about avoiding civil war between Celtic and Rangers. Personally I don’t think we’ll be relegated. How would it be a mockery of sport if you declare champions before the season has finished? 

 

 

[AlimOzturk]

Wimbledon, the Olympics, the Euros and many other huge sporting events have been cancelled so the idea that football can continue in any shape or form over the next 3 months Is pure Dreamland stuff. Footballers will be needing a pre season as well because you can't just throw them into football as due to Covid 19 they won't have been able to train properly. That's just reckless and recipe for injury. Also, players are out of contract and clubs will be financially unable to sign replacements ATM. 

 

SPFL need to make decisions so clubs can prepare. This season must be made null and void. There is no other choice

[OldGorgie]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

I don't disagree with that, but relegation based on an incomplete and unbalanced fixture would still be completely unfair.

For me that’s the quandary. 

[The Roller]

2 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

This season has been one of the worst I have ever seen in over 40 years of watching Hearts. Even worse than the dire 70’s. 

So far. The season is incomplete.

 

If this had happened in March 1999 would you have been arguing we should have been relegated at that point? We finished 6th iirc after spending much of the campaign in the relegation places.

 

Who needs hibs fans trying to put the boot in when you can log on to jkb 😠

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, The Roller said:

So far. The season is incomplete.

 

If this had happened in March 1999 would you have been arguing we should have been relegated at that point? We finished 6th iirc after spending much of the campaign in the relegation places.

 

Who needs hibs fans trying to put the boot in when you can log on to jkb 😠

Totally this.

[The Merse]

I'm nigh on certain the SPFL will declare standings as final.

 

It won't be fair but I'll be massively surprised if we don't get stitched up.

[His name is]

I was thinking about the league situation, given the fact that rangers are so far behind and have been playing so poorly, they could actually come out of this looking like the 'bigger man' by conceding the league.

 

I then thought about the situation if it was us and hibs in the same situation. 

 

Would you be happy to conceded? Would you be happy if the club conceded? 

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, His name is said:

I was thinking about the league situation, given the fact that rangers are so far behind and have been playing so poorly, they could actually come out of this looking like the 'bigger man' by conceding the league.

 

I then thought about the situation if it was us and hibs in the same situation. 

 

Would you be happy to conceded? Would you be happy if the club conceded? 

 

 

At present, I couldn't give a shiny shite. It says a lot about Scottish football that things like this seem to matter so much.

[Dazo]

😂😂😂😂😂

 

No chance. 

[frankblack]

I wouldn't concede to Hibs in that scenario but if the SPFL shaft us and relegate us without completing our fixtures then the SFA try to complete the Scottish Cup I'd tell them to ram it.

[The White Cockade]

No idea what I’d going to happen but I’m pretty certain if the games had all been played we’d be going down anyway