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They Can't Relegate Us (Legally)


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2 hours ago, GorgieRules22 said:

image.thumb.jpeg.566cec999b3c101f51cabb85aa1618a9.jpeg

 

 

Waslaand Beveren (20) were 2 points and ten goals worse of than second bottom team.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/belgian-pro-league/table

 

They were due at home to second placed KAA Gent.

 

Cercle Bruges (3rd bottom - 23) and Ostende (2nd bottom - 22) were due to play each other.

 

A draw would guarantee both safety.

 

Cercle Bruges who must have been a distant last at one point won 5 of their last 6 games.

 

Gives hope that we can't be relegated.

 

 

Edited by DETTY29
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46 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Club Brugge were 15 clear. Liverpool will probably be crowned after all of this

 

Another precedent set to the more likely option. 

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23 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

And the government at this time don't want medical staff in attendnce at sporting events.

 

Would the clubs'insurance be null and void if no doctor in attendance?

Agree, front line medical staff would not be pulled from where they are needed most.
I think it was Liam Craig yesterday who indicated that insurance would not cover the circumstances atm

 

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Ainsley Harriott
40 minutes ago, Jambos1983 said:

No one deserves anything if the season isn't finished

Can you imagine Lawell and Lennon if they were told this. Never going to happen.

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davemclaren

The problems won’t be over when football returns. There will be less money about and some sponsors won’t have survived in the same form they started, or at all. 

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Bazzas right boot
49 minutes ago, Jambos1983 said:

No one deserves anything if the season isn't finished

 

Not true, up to now celtic deserve to be first, we deserved to be last. 

The league table shows  this.

 

 

The question is how to end the season given what has happened and that no more games can be played. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

No-one, even Liverpool fans and players if they're honest, will see it as a genuine title. There won't be all the celebrations that go with it for a start. They'll take it obviously but it'll feel like the silver medalist who gets upgraded to a gold years later because it turned out the winner doped or something, or the tennis player who wins Wimbledon because their opponent goes off injured. Titles awarded this season in those circumstances will always have a caveat in the history books and opposing fans will never recognise them. They'll become a pub quiz question basically. And Liverpool are my English team. Liverpool fans can still remember a great season whatever happens, like us with 85/86.

 


Very true.  That would be the preference but ultimately if that can’t happen I’m sure they will take the title. 

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1 hour ago, Jambos1983 said:

No one deserves anything if the season isn't finished


They've won the league by miles before the season was interrupted.  I guarantee absolutely nobody on here would genuinely and legitimately claim otherwise.  Relegation and European places is a different matter though.  

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25 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Not true, up to now celtic deserve to be first, we deserved to be last. 

The league table shows  this.

 

 

The question is how to end the season given what has happened and that no more games can be played. 

 

 

 

It was a fair point made though that St Mirren have had 2 home games against us. 

 

If the recent game had been at Tynecastle and we won St Mirren would be bottom. 

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Malinga the Swinga
1 hour ago, Last Laff said:


Your opinion is based solely on your football support though.  Celtic deserve the league title. The rest wouldn’t be fair.

As Celtic often said after scoring late winners against us, game isn't over to the final whistle. The same applies to league title. That said, I couldn't give a **** whether they, Liverpool or some other bunch of overpaid pounces are awarded titles.

 

Footballers, and football in general, have come out of this situation as the money grabbing opportunists we always suspected they are. In particular, footballers in SPFL and Premiership have shown no empathy or understanding of the normal persons life. Having a picture of them clapping the NHS means nothing, other than showing their hypocrisy.

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24 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

As Celtic often said after scoring late winners against us, game isn't over to the final whistle. The same applies to league title. That said, I couldn't give a **** whether they, Liverpool or some other bunch of overpaid pounces are awarded titles.

 

Footballers, and football in general, have come out of this situation as the money grabbing opportunists we always suspected they are. In particular, footballers in SPFL and Premiership have shown no empathy or understanding of the normal persons life. Having a picture of them clapping the NHS means nothing, other than showing their hypocrisy.


In the general scheme of things, like every year I couldn’t give a shit who wins the league.  The same is usually same for the title yes, but this is extraordinary circumstances we find ourselves in.  

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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It was a fair point made though that St Mirren have had 2 home games against us. 

 

If the recent game had been at Tynecastle and we won St Mirren would be bottom. 

 

Yes, ofc that is why there is a debate, the season isn't over. 

 

The problem is there needs to be a solution if the rest of the games are not played. 

Finishing as is, null and void, Belgium / Chile solution are all options. 

 

I will go back that the option that damages the least amount of clubs will happen. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

The problems won’t be over when football returns. There will be less money about and some sponsors won’t have survived in the same form they started, or at all. 

 

I just tried to pull a party popper having read your post but the piece of string broke.

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Ehllhayapeh
3 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Waslaand Beveren (20) were 2 points and ten goals worse of than second bottom team.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/belgian-pro-league/table

 

They were due at home to second placed KAA Gent.

 

Cercle Bruges (3rd bottom - 23) and Ostende (2nd bottom - 22) were due to play each other.

 

A draw would guarantee both safety.

 

Cercle Bruges who must have been a distant last at one point won 5 of their last 6 games.

 

Gives hope that we can't be relegated.

 

 

I really dont think Hearts can, as its very difficult to make a case that the probability was they would go down, with so many points left to play for.

 

The question is whether the protectionist racket known as the SPL will prioritise 2 games at home v the erse cheeks of Glasgow over doing what is the right thing.

 

 

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Paint the town maroon
4 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

I know this goes round in circles but if the league is now finished then it is null and void.  Celtic were not champions.  No club was relegated.

 

Same applies in England which is clearly tough on liverpool but life is tough.  Some people are born into hibs supporting families.  Doesn't get any tougher than that.


Zero chance of null and void. It’s not even on the table at UEFA and association level. It’s commercial suicide.

 

The league will either be called as it is or finished at some point this year. Reconstruction is a 3rd (distant option).

 

i have to say I have always been convinced we would not be relegated. It’s fundamentally unfair based on 8 games remaining. However we have been the worst team in the league this season and frankly we might just need to suck it up and get on with it. I would rather have certainty sooner than risk a financial collapse for the club. We got out in one season, I am sure we would do it again (no Rangers or Hibs or even Dundee utd).

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Guest ToqueJambo
38 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

I think they will relegate us for sure.

 

We don't have a one-up, one down system so what about Hamilton in the playoff position and the clubs in the Championships in playoff positions? You can't just abandon the play-offs and relegate and promote one team only. How is that fair? What about the last European position with the SC still to play. Both Hearts and Hibs could qualify for Europe that way so it shouldn't be Aberdeen's place automatically.

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Bazzas right boot
21 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

We don't have a one-up, one down system so what about Hamilton in the playoff position and the clubs in the Championships in playoff positions? You can't just abandon the play-offs and relegate and promote one team only. How is that fair? What about the last European position with the SC still to play. Both Hearts and Hibs could qualify for Europe that way so it shouldn't be Aberdeen's place automatically.

 

Tbh, you can do what you can't be done. 

Fair Is subjective, depends on what you consider fair. 

 

If the games cannot be completed then something that has not been done before will have to be done that is clear. 

Either way, some clubs will be happy, others not so much. 

 

One solution will not satisfy everyone, it's impossible. 

 

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GorgieRules22
3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Tbh, you can do what you can't be done. 

Fair Is subjective, depends on what you consider fair. 

 

If the games cannot be completed then something that has not been done before will have to be done that is clear. 

Either way, some clubs will be happy, others not so much. 

 

One solution will not satisfy everyone, it's impossible. 

 

They have to surely look at something we’re your not crippling clubs even more financially by relegating them before a seasons finished. 

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davemclaren
1 hour ago, EH11 said:

 

I just tried to pull a party popper having read your post but the piece of string broke.

Sorry. 😎

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Bazzas right boot
14 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

They have to surely look at something we’re your not crippling clubs even more financially by relegating them before a seasons finished. 

 

You'd think. 

My feelings are that the option with most mitigating should be done- 

 

Celtic champions * SEASON ENDED EARLY DUE TO PANDEMIC. 

Standings and prize money dished out as is. 

Utd and ict promoted. 

League 14 teams for 1 or 2 seasons 

 

This way the null and void issues with fans, players, TV and sponsorship isn't an issue. 

No team is damaged from where they are now so legally less challenges. 

 

Only rangers fans and maybe even Celtic fans would be a tad miffed. 

 

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Jambo 4 Ever

I think we should suck it up and take it gracefully if we are relegated now 

 

we have not been good Enough all season so don’t deserve to stay up.

 

with any luck some of our garbage players might leave too 

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Guest ToqueJambo
44 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

You'd think. 

My feelings are that the option with most mitigating should be done- 

 

Celtic champions * SEASON ENDED EARLY DUE TO PANDEMIC. 

Standings and prize money dished out as is. 

Utd and ict promoted. 

League 14 teams for 1 or 2 seasons 

 

This way the null and void issues with fans, players, TV and sponsorship isn't an issue. 

No team is damaged from where they are now so legally less challenges. 

 

Only rangers fans and maybe even Celtic fans would be a tad miffed. 

 

 

This would be sensible. Who cares about the title anyhow? You may as well give Celtic the trophy at the start of every season, never mind after 30 games.

 

With the 14 team league Dundee and Ayr would have a right to be miffed as they're currently in play-off positions. They could maybe be compensated financially. Or a 16 or 18-team league would get around that, but Celtic and Rangers would never go for it even though we had several years of no OF derbies recently and Scottish football didn't collapse as a result. If the start of next season might be delayed which looks very possible, a 16-team league also has fewer games so a later start wouldn't be as big a deal. They could introduce some sort of additional one-off cup competition to plug the game-day revenue loss if really needed. 

 

 

 

 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
2 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

I think we should suck it up and take it gracefully if we are relegated now 

 

we have not been good Enough all season so don’t deserve to stay up.

 

with any luck some of our garbage players might leave too 

Sounds like a robust business plan 

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Guest ToqueJambo
14 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

I think we should suck it up and take it gracefully if we are relegated now 

 

we have not been good Enough all season so don’t deserve to stay up.

 

with any luck some of our garbage players might leave too 

 

That's not how football works. We're just 6 pts off 9th with 24 pts to play for. The team at the bottom after 38 games deserves to be relegated not the team there after 30 games. What teams "deserve" now has nothing to do with it. We deserved to win the title in 85/86 after 35 games, but that counted for nothing because we lost the 36th. 

 

With 8 games to go that season, Celtic were 3 or 4 pts behind us just like we're 4 behind Hamilton, except it was 2 pts for a win then so harder to close a gap. They completely turned around their form after dropping loads of pts in their previous 8 games and won their last 8 games to take the title. 

 

Any Hearts fan thinking we "deserve" to go down because we've been crap for 3/4 of the season needs to have a word. How many games have won in the past after being mostly rubbish then snatching it at the end? Did we deserve to lose these games?

Edited by ToqueJambo
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1 hour ago, Paint the town maroon said:


Zero chance of null and void. It’s not even on the table at UEFA and association level. It’s commercial suicide.

 

The league will either be called as it is or finished at some point this year. Reconstruction is a 3rd (distant option).

 

i have to say I have always been convinced we would not be relegated. It’s fundamentally unfair based on 8 games remaining. However we have been the worst team in the league this season and frankly we might just need to suck it up and get on with it. I would rather have certainty sooner than risk a financial collapse for the club. We got out in one season, I am sure we would do it again (no Rangers or Hibs or even Dundee utd).

Just to show how diametrically opposed we are on this issue, I think it is extremely unlikely we will have any football next season, never mind this season.  I hope I'm wrong.

 

There could be the fiasco of some empty stadium football.  If that happens i couldn't care less if we are in Division 20.  Even then, how would s d work between the players and officials?

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, Paint the town maroon said:


Zero chance of null and void. It’s not even on the table at UEFA and association level. It’s commercial suicide.

 

The league will either be called as it is or finished at some point this year. Reconstruction is a 3rd (distant option).

 

i have to say I have always been convinced we would not be relegated. It’s fundamentally unfair based on 8 games remaining. However we have been the worst team in the league this season and frankly we might just need to suck it up and get on with it. I would rather have certainty sooner than risk a financial collapse for the club. We got out in one season, I am sure we would do it again (no Rangers or Hibs or even Dundee utd).

 

Debatable. The SRU just voided the rugby season.

 

And Hamilton have been the 2nd worse, which means they should be in a playoff. Caley, Dundee and Ayr are all in with a chance of promotion. Why should Hamilton benefit? If they do relegate us, they'd need to sort out the play-offs somehow. Coin tosses? FIFA 20 online?

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Bazzas right boot
23 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

This would be sensible. Who cares about the title anyhow? You may as well give Celtic the trophy at the start of every season, never mind after 30 games.

 

With the 14 team league Dundee and Ayr would have a right to be miffed as they're currently in play-off positions. They could maybe be compensated financially. Or a 16 or 18-team league would get around that, but Celtic and Rangers would never go for it even though we had several years of no OF derbies recently and Scottish football didn't collapse as a result. If the start of next season might be delayed which looks very possible, a 16-team league also has fewer games so a later start wouldn't be as big a deal. They could introduce some sort of additional one-off cup competition to plug the game-day revenue loss if really needed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think in  giving the title then the season cannot be classed as null and void, this therefor avoids all the issues associated that may arise with with that. 

Symbolic if anything tbh. 

 

There will be unhappy teams but again if it is only Ayr, Dundee and a few others annoyed because they " might have" made the playoffs and "might have" got promoted then you have mitagated most big issues.

 

 

Rangers and Celtic fans will be unhappy either way. 

 

 

Edited by Smith's right boot
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Dagger Is Back
1 hour ago, Natural Orders said:

I think we should suck it up and take it gracefully if we are relegated now 

 

we have not been good Enough all season so don’t deserve to stay up.

 

with any luck some of our garbage players might leave too 

 

Yeah you're probably right. I'm sure the fans of every other team in the SPFL would feel the same way, if they were to be in the same position

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I can't begin to imagine how deflated I will feel for Celtic when the season is declared null and void.  

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Guest ToqueJambo
28 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

I can't begin to imagine how deflated I will feel for Celtic when the season is declared null and void.  

 

They can console themselves with the thought of 100 titles in a row after all this is over. That and the £30m in their bank account, while they still take government handouts to pay for their staff and had to be guilt-tripped into paying living wage.

 

"More than a club"

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7 hours ago, Natural Orders said:

I think we should suck it up and take it gracefully if we are relegated now 

 

we have not been good Enough all season so don’t deserve to stay up.

 

with any luck some of our garbage players might leave too 

couldn’t agree more but that won’t go down well with the hard of thinking on the forum. I’m amazed that anybody who has actually watched Hearts this season think we deserve to stay up.

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Unknown user
Just now, OldGorgie said:

couldn’t agree more but that won’t go down well with the hard of thinking on the forum. I’m amazed that anybody who has actually watched Hearts this season think we deserve to stay up.

 

There's no need for that mate, we're all on the same side here

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10 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Tbh, you can do what you can't be done. 

Fair Is subjective, depends on what you consider fair. 

 

If the games cannot be completed then something that has not been done before will have to be done that is clear. 

Either way, some clubs will be happy, others not so much. 

 

One solution will not satisfy everyone, it's impossible. 

 


Leaving all the issues aside The only clubs to be happy would be those in 1st spot. For everyone else it’s either meh or unfair. You think that’s the cleanest, fairest option ? 
 

I agree though there is no solution that will please all. 

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1 hour ago, OldGorgie said:

couldn’t agree more but that won’t go down well with the hard of thinking on the forum. I’m amazed that anybody who has actually watched Hearts this season think we deserve to stay up.


What we deserve is irrelevant, it’s simple sporting integrity and competition rules. If you do want to go down that route then we don’t deserve to go down until we can no longer catch the team above us. Don’t think too hard on that it will hurt. 

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9 hours ago, Natural Orders said:

we have not been good Enough all season so don’t deserve to stay up.


An oxymoron, right there.

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9 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

That's not how football works. We're just 6 pts off 9th with 24 pts to play for. The team at the bottom after 38 games deserves to be relegated not the team there after 30 games. What teams "deserve" now has nothing to do with it. We deserved to win the title in 85/86 after 35 games, but that counted for nothing because we lost the 36th. 

 

With 8 games to go that season, Celtic were 3 or 4 pts behind us just like we're 4 behind Hamilton, except it was 2 pts for a win then so harder to close a gap. They completely turned around their form after dropping loads of pts in their previous 8 games and won their last 8 games to take the title. 

 

Any Hearts fan thinking we "deserve" to go down because we've been crap for 3/4 of the season needs to have a word. How many games have won in the past after being mostly rubbish then snatching it at the end? Did we deserve to lose these games?


This. Absolutely staggering how the “hard of thinking” refuse to acknowledge this.

 

I remain convinced we will be looking at division expansion anyway, but I’m reassured that Budge will not be happy to just sit there and accept a relegation that we do not deserve. 

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1 hour ago, OldGorgie said:

couldn’t agree more but that won’t go down well with the hard of thinking on the forum. I’m amazed that anybody who has actually watched Hearts this season think we deserve to stay up.


We deserve what we get after 38 games. 

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7 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:


We deserve what we get after 38 games. 

Correct.  To be accurate, we deserve to be where we are at the current time.  No one knows where we deserve to be at the end of the season.  That is the issue in a nutshell.

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A change to a 14 team league wont happen imo.  Its diluting the prize money for the other teams, and you will struggle to find a team that would vote for that. 

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Just now, RonnieG said:

A change to a 14 team league wont happen imo.  Its diluting the prize money for the other teams, and you will struggle to find a team that would vote for that. 

 

They don't have a choice as this season ends in May and can't be completed.  If they try and **** us over we will be taking legal action possibly with a number of clubs that they would similarly shaft like Partick.

 

Football may not resume until 2021 so it would be sensible for teams to build afresh since squads will be significantly different by then.

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Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

I see UEFA are condemning concluding the seasons early and stating access to European competitions could be at risk for associations doing so.

Apparently they are proposing that the leagues are finished in July and August

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52148695

 

Guess we may hear more later today

 

Access to European competitions isn't something we need to concern ourselves with in Scotland as we are an absolute embarassment whenever our teams enter it.

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IveSeenTheLight
1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Access to European competitions isn't something we need to concern ourselves with in Scotland as we are an absolute embarassment whenever our teams enter it.

 

Ok, that's your view, but the real story is that UEFA are indicating that there should be a collaboration across the leagues as to when the seasons should be finished

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3 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

I see UEFA are condemning concluding the seasons early and stating access to European competitions could be at risk for associations doing so.

Apparently they are proposing that the leagues are finished in July and August

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52148695

 

Guess we may hear more later today

 

From what has been said Scotland are following UEFA and the broadcasters.

 

What Cowdenbeath Chairman said on radio last weekend. 

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1 minute ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

I see UEFA are condemning concluding the seasons early and stating access to European competitions could be at risk for associations doing so.

Apparently they are proposing that the leagues are finished in July and August

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52148695

 

Guess we may hear more later today


What a massive ****ing facepalm from UEFA. Aye, we’ll all be flocking to stadia in our tens of thousands in July/August. :facepalm:

 

Blackmailing associations and leagues in to not putting public safety before cash. Idiotic.

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If the desire to end the league now is driven by need to get prize money, just dish that out now based on current standings, wait and finish league when we are able to and make an adjustment to next season’s prize money to account for any difference in final league placing vs the placing used to assign prize money now. 
 

I don’t see the need to crown anyone champion, decide relegation right now. No one has a clue when football will resume and/or what the landscape of surviving clubs etc. will be at that point.
 

“Relegating” us (or anyone else) right now is a nonsense. It’s completely unfair, but more importantly no one knows what Scottish football will look like next season.  

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2 minutes ago, Peebo said:

If the desire to end the league now is driven by need to get prize money, just dish that out now based on current standings, wait and finish league when we are able to and make an adjustment to next season’s prize money to account for any difference in final league placing vs the placing used to assign prize money now. 
 

I don’t see the need to crown anyone champion, decide relegation right now. No one has a clue when football will resume and/or what the landscape of surviving clubs etc. will be at that point.
 

“Relegating” us (or anyone else) right now is a nonsense. It’s completely unfair, but more importantly no one knows what Scottish football will look like next season.  

 

Fair points.

 

But more certainty will also help clubs sell season tickets. 

 

And they will know whether or not they are getting home gates etc from 19/20. Help them with player wage cuts. 

Edited by Mikey1874
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