The rise and fall of The SNP.

[henryheart]

4 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

interesting to watch how the FM pivoted during COVID. At the start of the crisis she was in lockstep with the government and came across as a true Statesman with her clear comms and daily briefings, she took the central message amplified and in many cases clarified what it meant. As things progressed though that degenerated into an obvious policy of making things different that came across as petty and unnecessary. This in turn added further to the confusion and weakened the overall health/compliance message across the UK as a whole but particularly in Scotland, it was however highly successful at highlighting Scotland as a separate country which has control over large parts of it's own decision making. She's not daft!!

 

What has been significant is how she successfully promoted Scotland's different approach and strengthened support for independence before reality struck home and many people lost trust in her message as it became more obvious that she was being different for the sake of being different and that the pandemic in Scotland was not being as well managed as she was suggesting. As you say, she has successfully highlighted the extent of powers that the Scottish Parliament but to what end? The health service and education are in crisis and while she is not daft, she has not been helped by those around her; the Alex Salmond fiasco, her husband who gives the impression that he is not one to be trusted and the bumbling performance of her front bench heightening awareness that there really is no depth in quality within the SNP at Holyrood.   

[Ked]

47 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Imagine having to ask the EU for permission to leave. The Brit fuds wouldve spontaneously combusted. 
Bolloks to it.

Unfortunately it's the law.

Although if a referendum was called and independence voted then it would be pretty hard to ignore .

[pablo]

5 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

interesting to watch how the FM pivoted during COVID. At the start of the crisis she was in lockstep with the government and came across as a true Statesman with her clear comms and daily briefings, she took the central message amplified and in many cases clarified what it meant. As things progressed though that degenerated into an obvious policy of making things different that came across as petty and unnecessary. This in turn added further to the confusion and weakened the overall health/compliance message across the UK as a whole but particularly in Scotland, it was however highly successful at highlighting Scotland as a separate country which has control over large parts of it's own decision making. She's not daft!!

 

Although most people are aware that the two things that have made the biggest difference to Scots has been the furlough scheme and the procurement of vaccine. Both out of her control.

[manaliveits105]

26 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Although most people are aware that the two things that have made the biggest difference to Scots has been the furlough scheme and the procurement of vaccine. Both out of her control.

True dat you would have to be dumb not to appreciate it 

[Unknown user]

29 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Although most people are aware that the two things that have made the biggest difference to Scots has been the furlough scheme and the procurement of vaccine. Both out of her control.

 

Everyone in Scotland is well aware of that we're dominated as a nation. Some love it, some hate it. 

It doesn't negate anything in the post you replied to.

 

 

[pablo]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Everyone in Scotland is well aware of that we're dominated as a nation. Some love it, some hate it. 

It doesn't negate anything in the post you replied to.

 

 

 

Love and Hate, Them and Us, Dominance and Suppression........trust me, not everyone sees everything as black and white as is required to make populist nationalism appealing.

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Do you have a link to the Supreme Court ruling on the repatriation of EU powers, Thor?

 

I'm not sure he has a link to the real world. 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Love and Hate, Them and Us, Dominance and Suppression........trust me, not everyone sees everything as black and white as is required to make populist nationalism appealing.

 

The post you replied to made good points 

🤷‍♂️

[Taffin]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The biggest con they’ve ever pulled is that we need permission. This is supposed to be a union. We joined voluntarily so…

 

There's a lot of thing you can voluntarily join, but not unilaterally leave...at least not without consequences.

 

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The SNP arent bold enough. I sometimes think they don’t want it personally. 
Theyve been hijacked by other groups imo. 

They need to crank it up.
Get the big bags of chips on all our shoulders again☺️

 

I agree with the above. I've lost all confidence in them now to both govern well and deliver independence and also doubt they want it enough.

 

I'm starting to see independence as their vehicle into governance, rather than their governance as a vehicle to independence.

[Japan Jambo]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

So if westminster has to give permission for another referendum does that mean the SG doesnt hold one?

It could still do so and if the result went it's way that surely would mean that westminster would have to recognise it.

Or is the latest ruling a get out for the SG for not holding another one given the closeness of polls?

 

Not cheap to run a referendum (last one was £15.85m), I wouldn't want to be a public official authorising that without legal backing. Wide open to getting sued by some one for acting ultra vires. 

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, henryheart said:

 

What has been significant is how she successfully promoted Scotland's different approach and strengthened support for independence before reality struck home and many people lost trust in her message as it became more obvious that she was being different for the sake of being different and that the pandemic in Scotland was not being as well managed as she was suggesting. As you say, she has successfully highlighted the extent of powers that the Scottish Parliament but to what end? The health service and education are in crisis and while she is not daft, she has not been helped by those around her; the Alex Salmond fiasco, her husband who gives the impression that he is not one to be trusted and the bumbling performance of her front bench heightening awareness that there really is no depth in quality within the SNP at Holyrood.   

 

It would be fair to say I have considerably more respect for her as a political operator than I do her administration capabilities 🙂, but then it was every thus, much easier to carp from the sidelines and point out the deficiencies of others. The fact that my wife and I were vaccinated here in London before my mother in Fife was in my book pretty unforgiveable but hey that'll be the Tories fault too.

 

As for the lack of strength and depth I'll see your Holyrood and raise you Ian Blackford and Kirsten Oswald. Have to give wee Nicky her chops though, whatever you think of her message she is a player.

 

[henryheart]

5 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

It would be fair to say I have considerably more respect for her as a political operator than I do her administration capabilities 🙂, but then it was every thus, much easier to carp from the sidelines and point out the deficiencies of others. The fact that my wife and I were vaccinated here in London before my mother in Fife was in my book pretty unforgiveable but hey that'll be the Tories fault too.

 

As for the lack of strength and depth I'll see your Holyrood and raise you Ian Blackford and Kirsten Oswald. Have to give wee Nicky her chops though, whatever you think of her message she is a player.

 

 

and you didn't even raise Margaret Ferrier! 

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, henryheart said:

 

and you didn't even raise Margaret Ferrier! 

 

Strictly speaking she is an Independent, though why she wasn't jailed and the subject of a recall motion completely escapes me. That was truly despicable behaviour endangering peoples lives in that manner and she should have been thrown to the lions at the time. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There's a lot of thing you can voluntarily join, but not unilaterally leave...at least not without consequences.

 

 

I agree with the above. I've lost all confidence in them now to both govern well and deliver independence and also doubt they want it enough.

 

I'm starting to see independence as their vehicle into governance, rather than their governance as a vehicle to independence.

Good posting 

[The Mighty Thor]

34 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I'm not sure he has a link to the real world. 

[NANOJAMBO]

6 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

The reality of the position was a wee bit more complicated than that though wasn't it. The Brexit referendum result pass mark was far too close a result given the magnitude of the consequences. Given that London/Scotland/The Civil Service/MP's were all pretty much set against it enacting this was a case of pushing water uphill and the debate dominated the political narrative for way too long. One could argue that parliament itself was failing in it's duty to deliver what they had been instructed to do by the people. Didn't help of course that the leave campaign didn't expect to win and had no plan in place for that eventuality!!

 

Hugely ironic that several years later we ended up with a substantially worse deal than the one Theresa May had initially proposed in an effort to find some middle ground. Alas consensual politics and the art of finding middle ground isn't fashionable these days.

It was but not in the context of my post to a guy who was citing biased English media to justify his perpetual & tedious SNP bashing , as though their collective outpourings were the epitome of balanced journalsim.  

[NANOJAMBO]

3 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Although most people are aware that the two things that have made the biggest difference to Scots has been the furlough scheme and the procurement of vaccine. Both out of her control.

Because they were never IN her control. 

PS How did little countries like Slovenia, Croatia etc survive ? 

[NANOJAMBO]

7 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Once in a generation apparently, so going by the Dundee calendar that'll be 2028 or thereabouts. 

[NANOJAMBO]

8 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Do you have a link to the Supreme Court ruling on the repatriation of EU powers, Thor?

Still avoiding any question that requires an answer that undermines your "argument". 😄

[jack D and coke]

37 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Because they were never IN her control. 

PS How did little countries like Slovenia, Croatia etc survive ? 

Everything Scotland receives is a gift don’t you know? We’re kept by the nicest people eva!!! Out the EU to stop sending £350m a week to them but fight tooth and nail to keep firing money up our farters to keep us in deep fried smack☺️They love us❤️
Scrounging, cadging, good for nothing *******s that we are and Enzo won’t let us forget it 🤪🤣

Edited October 8, 2021 by jack D and coke

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Everything Scotland receives is a gift don’t you know? We’re kept by the nicest people eva!!! Out the EU to stop sending £350m a week to them but fight tooth and nail to keep firing money up our farters to keep us in deep fried smack☺️They love us❤️
Scrounging, cadging, good for nothing *******s that we are and Enzo won’t let us forget it 🤪🤣

 

I'm enjoying the all new JD I must say

[Jamstomorrow]

6 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I'd rather be a smart arse than an angry dumb ass

Does this mean you have experience of being both, to make such a choice?

[Jamstomorrow]

7 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Totally missing the point in your rush to have a dig at the SNP.

 

I am guessing that if anyone's point differs from yours .  . they are missing the point!

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm enjoying the all new JD I must say

Think I’m still a bit hanging fae last night pal☺️
I’m home and I’ve cracked open a beer though🕺🏼it’s the weekend and out to watch Skint Cadgerland vs Israel tomorrow 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

When is it Musk shoots you up on his rocket? 

[Unknown user]

27 minutes ago, Jamstomorrow said:

Does this mean you have experience of being both, to make such a choice?

 

Ah no one's perfect

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Ah no one's perfect

Corporal KvC reporting, begging to differ, Sir!

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Again,  you're totally missing the point , so I'll say it again. You "cite" newspapers who routinely peddle Tory/unionist/brexit lies & propaganda as though they have any credibility in any political debate .  These are the "newspapers" who where happy to back a PM who illegally prorogued parliament and lied to the queen. 

 

Your last sentence is utter drivel. 

That was your question?

Again, I will repeat my last sentence. The Nationalist mindset is that everything is a means to an end.

They divert, digress and obfuscate rather than accept any criticism of "the movement ". You have proved my point yet again.

 

I'm going to continue calling out all the drivellers and dribblers on here with direct questions.

 

Which part of any of the articles, reporting the Supreme Court's ruling, produced in the Express, Mail, Times etc was inaccurate or untrue ??

 

The people at fault here are the SNP led Scot Gov  who have made yet another horses's erse of a piece of flawed legislation. No one else. ThEM.

 

You may be happy to see them run the country into the ground but the Scottish people and WM won't let it hapoen.

Which is why all Scot Gov spending will now be audited by WM and critical infrastructure improvements will be made, whether they support it or not.

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

When is it Musk shoots you up on his rocket? 

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

 

 

You may be happy to see them run the country into the ground but the Scottish people and WM won't let it hapoen.

Which is why all Scot Gov spending will now be audited by WM and critical infrastructure improvements will be made, whether they support it or not.

 

 

And that ladies and gentlemen is what a 'union of equals' looks like.

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That was your question?

Again, I will repeat my last sentence. The Nationalist mindset is that everything is a means to an end.

They divert, digress and obfuscate rather than accept any criticism of "the movement ". You have proved my point yet again.

 

I'm going to continue calling out all the drivellers and dribblers on here with direct questions.

 

Which part of any of the articles, reporting the Supreme Court's ruling, produced in the Express, Mail, Times etc was inaccurate or untrue ??

 

The people at fault here are the SNP led Scot Gov  who have made yet another horses's erse of a piece of flawed legislation. No one else. ThEM.

 

You may be happy to see them run the country into the ground but the Scottish people and WM won't let it hapoen.

Which is why all Scot Gov spending will now be audited by WM and critical infrastructure improvements will be made, whether they support it or not.

 

 

Had typed up something, then, couldn't be arsed with the inevitable fallout...

 

carry on...

[Jamstomorrow]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

And that ladies and gentlemen is what a 'union of equals' looks like.

 

More gripe and grievance?

[Konrad von Carstein]

7 minutes ago, Jamstomorrow said:

More gripe and grievance?

Think there's a lot of "gripe and grievance" going on in the heartlands of WM due to the utter omnishables that the Tory "government" are presiding over at the moment...refreshing to see, given Independence supporters are often told that's all we've got...

[Jamstomorrow]

12 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Think there's a lot of "gripe and grievance" going on in the heartlands of WM due to the utter omnishables that the Tory "government" are presiding over at the moment...refreshing to see, given Independence supporters are often told that's all we've got...

Why do you put government in inverted commas?   The Conservatives are the government.  A government who were voted in with a large majority.   Things are definitely difficult for everyone in government everywhere due to the effects of the virus.   Scotland is no different, except a lot of incompetent governance here was pre-covid.  Education, Drugs deaths, NHS, Emergency Services, ferries, airports, taxation.  All well documented and not down to either Westminster or Covid.    No doubt you will disagree.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Think I’m still a bit hanging fae last night pal☺️
I’m home and I’ve cracked open a beer though🕺🏼it’s the weekend and out to watch Skint Cadgerland vs Israel tomorrow 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Hope they thrash them . 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Hope they thrash them . 

I’m assuming you mean Scotland😂

We dont thrash anyone. The odd goal I’d imagine but hopefully a win. 

I enjoy the internationals though pub is usually heaving. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

10 minutes ago, Jamstomorrow said:

Why do you put government in inverted commas?   The Conservatives are the government.  A government who were voted in with a large majority.   Things are definitely difficult for everyone in government everywhere due to the effects of the virus.   Scotland is no different, except a lot of incompetent governance here was pre-covid.  Education, Drugs deaths, NHS, Emergency Services, ferries, airports, taxation.  All well documented and not down to either Westminster or Covid.    No doubt you will disagree.

Inverted commas are appropriate in my opinion, they aren't governing for the best interests of the people of the "UK" (more commas for you) they are an incompetent, self serving gaggle of charlatans out for themselves and their donors...The current idiocy and refusal to accept they have got things disaterously wrong not only since brexit, don't forget this shower have been in power for over a decade and this place is still a shambles, a shambles that they want as it suits their agendas...

 

All of course in my opinion...

Edited October 8, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m assuming you mean Scotland😂

We dont thrash anyone. The odd goal I’d imagine but hopefully a win. 

I enjoy the internationals though pub is usually heaving. 

I’m not exactly keen on that nation . A few friends will be outside protesting I believe . Think there is also an independence March in Glasgow the morrow too . 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That was your question?

Again, I will repeat my last sentence. The Nationalist mindset is that everything is a means to an end.

They divert, digress and obfuscate rather than accept any criticism of "the movement ". You have proved my point yet again.

 

I'm going to continue calling out all the drivellers and dribblers on here with direct questions.

 

Which part of any of the articles, reporting the Supreme Court's ruling, produced in the Express, Mail, Times etc was inaccurate or untrue ??

 

The people at fault here are the SNP led Scot Gov  who have made yet another horses's erse of a piece of flawed legislation. No one else. ThEM.

 

You may be happy to see them run the country into the ground but the Scottish people and WM won't let it hapoen.

Which is why all Scot Gov spending will now be audited by WM and critical infrastructure improvements will be made, whether they support it or not.

 

 

Does that mean British Nationalists too or is just the Scottish kind? I'm very happy with our SNP government more than the GB shi...house. Your ilk go on about NHS and education. I've had cancer and had fantastic care from the surgeon and all the staff. My youngest daughter, nieces, nephews and grandchildren have had and are having a brilliant education, all under  the SNP!

 

My father in law has daily care and the staff, once again, are brilliant. Give them some credit for goodness sake! Come out from under your unionist rock that reeks of damp and stale pi..!

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I’m not exactly keen on that nation . A few friends will be outside protesting I believe . Think there is also an independence March in Glasgow the morrow too . 

Hmm Israel is a difficult one. I tried for years to understand wtf is going on over there. 
There’s the obvious things like creating the Jewish state where it is but after that it gets muddy as the tit for tat starts. It’s the promised land they’re on too. They have a right to defend themselves but you could go on all night with it. Hurts my head. 
Moan Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Hmm Israel is a difficult one. I tried for years to understand wtf is going on over there. 
There’s the obvious things like creating the Jewish state where it is but after that it gets muddy as the tit for tat starts. It’s the promised land they’re on too. They have a right to defend themselves but you could go on all night with it. Hurts my head. 
Moan Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

Oh yes the “ promised land “ promised from a fairy tale book ! Ludicrous if it wasn’t so serious really . They are basically the homeless person you kindly “ agreed “ to let stay with you who then promptly and violently turfs you out of your own place you have literally lived for centuries . Beggars belief . The Italians should claim settlement of Great Britain as they lived here for over 400 years , if that’s how it works . Anyway I don’t want to derail the debates about the SNP on this thread but it’s something I do feel passionately about . Maybe set up a thread 🧵 about it but it would be explosive so probably best not to. I’ve got enough on my plate 😂😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Does that mean British Nationalists too or is just the Scottish kind? I'm very happy with our SNP government more than the GB shi...house. Your ilk go on about NHS and education. I've had cancer and had fantastic care from the surgeon and all the staff. My youngest daughter, nieces, nephews and grandchildren have had and are having a brilliant education, all under  the SNP!

 

My father in law has daily care and the staff, once again, are brilliant. Give them some credit for goodness sake! Come out from under your unionist rock that reeks of damp and stale pi..!

After initial difficulties at the tail end of last year with my health issues and having to go private , the NHS is definitely back to its best I feel , in my experience . My local Gp practice now has a resident physio who I met yesterday . She gave me exercises to do for next 4 weeks and I’m sore as **** tonight after doing them .😎

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh yes the “ promised land “ promised from a fairy tale book ! Ludicrous if it wasn’t so serious really . They are basically the homeless person you kindly “ agreed “ to let stay with you who then promptly and violently turfs you out of your own place you have literally lived for centuries . Beggars belief . The Italians should claim settlement of Great Britain as they lived here for over 400 years , if that’s how it works . Anyway I don’t want to derail the debates about the SNP on this thread but it’s something I do feel passionately about . Maybe set up a thread 🧵 about it but it would be explosive so probably best not to. I’ve got enough on my plate 😂😂

Britain is the mongrel nation as they say. 
Ive always wondered why the English and french don’t get on when they’re so linked.  
Anyway….Good weekend to you pal🍻 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

After initial difficulties at the tail end of last year with my health issues and having to go private , the NHS is definitely back to its best I feel , in my experience . My local Gp practice now has a resident physio who I met yesterday . She gave me exercises to do for next 4 weeks and I’m sore as **** tonight after doing them .😎

Hope you're OK bud👍 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Hope you're OK bud👍 

Cheers . Yes my other illness seems to have abated nice but  I’ve had a painful left shoulder .  I’ve Had it for a few months so hopefully the exercises will do the trick . I used to think they exercise may actually cause more problems with it but apparently it can really help . Better than taking pain killers which goof me up to the eyeballs 👀 and u hope your well . It’s so true that your health is the most important thing . Without good health everything else is unimportant really . 👍👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Britain is the mongrel nation as they say. 
Ive always wondered why the English and french don’t get on when they’re so linked.  
Anyway….Good weekend to you pal🍻 

Good weekend to you too . 👍 I can have a drink this weekend now as I was off it for a few weeks due to blood tests . Alcohol mucks them up . 😯

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Good weekend to you too . 👍 I can have a drink this weekend now as I was off it for a few weeks due to blood tests . Alcohol mucks them up . 😯

Totally tragical when you have to stay aff the booze😂I sometimes wonder what life would be like🤣

Enjoy pal🍻

[Des Lynam]

54 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I’m not exactly keen on that nation . A few friends will be outside protesting I believe . Think there is also an independence March in Glasgow the morrow too . 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Totally tragical when you have to stay aff the booze😂I sometimes wonder what life would be like🤣

Enjoy pal🍻

Well my GP is a bit of a fanatic about people who drink and can be censorious about my drinking . I actually don’t drink that much but it can impact on blood tests . My previous GP had a more realistic attitude . He said you have to balance things out . Yes maybe pain free if not drinking at all and it doesn’t impact on your bloods , or drinking reasonably and having some quality of life he felt . 

[Roxy Hearts]

10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Cheers . Yes my other illness seems to have abated nice but  I’ve had a painful left shoulder .  I’ve Had it for a few months so hopefully the exercises will do the trick . I used to think they exercise may actually cause more problems with it but apparently it can really help . Better than taking pain killers which goof me up to the eyeballs 👀 and u hope your well . It’s so true that your health is the most important thing . Without good health everything else is unimportant really . 👍👍

I'm good thanks. Had a couple of really minor ops but nothing as serious as previous. Good health to you and come on Scotland!