The rise and fall of The SNP.

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Of course and that's part of the point! Scotland has no debt but if it was apportioned to us on behalf of the mess Westminster has made then we would negotiate the assets of which we've contributed.

Didn't mention oil. No layman knows Scotland's true wealth. You can bet your life's savings that we are financially more stable than Westminster's propaganda leads YOU to believe! 

 

One reason for questioning their insulting motives. Why do they want to keep us?

The British govt can’t lose its colonial thought process of dominating. The whole thing about bringing scotland and ireland to heel was because they didn’t want bordered by any countries even slightly hostile. They’d be hostile to

us if we got indy I reckon. It’s pretty clear with the behaviour with the EU and brexit. I watched a video yesterday of people down south all sitting in queues for fuel happy they voted brexit😀🙈doubling down on their dumbness. They’re getting the bad old frogs and krauts routine and swallowing it. Difference is here they managed to take over the minds of plenty uncle tams who will gladly wear it and denigrate their own. “Scots” like Alistair Jack. 
But Scotland £500billion in debt is an absaloot beezer 🤣talk about puling stuff out your erse. We’ve had no control over pretty much anything but now we’re £500billion in debt. You couldn’t make that up. Even if it wasnt utter garbage then why would any unionist be proud of that record and post laughy emojis about it?

🤡🤡🤡🤡😂

[Taffin]

Let's not forget only 600k more people voted Remain in Scotland than Leave whilst 13 million voted Remain in England.

 

Yes, 15 million voted to Leave but Scotland hasn't got a monopoly on people voting Remain.

 

Those 13 million were dragged out of EU against their will every bit as much as the 1.6 million Scots.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Taffin

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Let's not forget only 600k more people voted Remain in Scotland than Leave whilst 13 million voted Remain in England.

 

Yes, 15 million voted to Leave but Scotland hasn't got a monopoly on people voting Remain.

 

Those 13 million were dragged out of EU against their will every bit as much as the 1.6 million Scots.

Nearly a third of eligible Scots couldn't even be bothered voting in the Brexit referendum. Probably the same half wits that fly European flags from their window. "Taken oot against our will" my erse.

[Boab]

8 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Nearly a third of eligible Scots couldn't even be bothered voting in the Brexit referendum. Probably the same half wits that fly European flags from their window. "Taken oot against our will" my erse.

Not a big surprise, Enzo.

The 63% turnout at the last Scottish Election was the highest, by far, turnout of any Election since Devolution.

England’s turnouts are no better, for balance.

[Taffin]

14 minutes ago, Boab said:

Not a big surprise, Enzo.

The 63% turnout at the last Scottish Election was the highest, by far, turnout of any Election since Devolution.

England’s turnouts are no better, for balance.

 

Whilst it's not a big surprise, it does make a mockery of the idea Scotland it being taken out against its will.

 

It's no more so than England, where a minority of the electorate voted to Leave.

 

The Scots voted to remain at the behest of the UK government and UK electoral system in 2014 and then over a third of us didn't bother to vote against Brexit in 2016. There's nobody to blame but ourselves.

[Boab]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Whilst it's not a big surprise, it does make a mockery of the idea Scotland it being taken out against its will.

 

It's no more so than England, where a minority of the electorate voted to Leave.

 

The Scots voted to remain at the behest of the UK government and UK electoral system in 2014 and then over a third of us didn't bother to vote against Brexit in 2016. There's nobody to blame but ourselves.

Exactly.

[pablo]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

Let's not forget only 600k more people voted Remain in Scotland than Leave whilst 13 million voted Remain in England.

 

Yes, 15 million voted to Leave but Scotland hasn't got a monopoly on people voting Remain.

 

Those 13 million were dragged out of EU against their will every bit as much as the 1.6 million Scots.

 

Ssshhh now. Scottish independence only makes sense if you a) believe the financial evidence is falsified b) everyone deserves the government to be the party they vote for, and c) winning an election for local government is a mandate to split up a sovereign country.

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

If only we had Eton educated leaders. They're doing a grand job elsewhere. 

 

Why do you keep deflecting to other subjects? 

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

Well even if they’d been on par with those who have governed at Westminster we would still be better off. 

 

You're assuming they (whoever they might have been) would have even considered doing what Norway did. 

[Roxy Hearts]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Ssshhh now. Scottish independence only makes sense if you a) believe the financial evidence is falsified b) everyone deserves the government to be the party they vote for, and c) winning an election for local government is a mandate to split up a sovereign country.

a) We don't know Scotland's finances but I'm fairly confident that they're better than the guff that's published.

b) Wouldn't that be more democratic and representative of the people?

c) Scottish people are sovereign and if we wish to vote for independence then that should be respected at all times. Politics doesn't stand still and people change their minds!

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

a) We don't know Scotland's finances but I'm fairly confident that they're better than the guff that's published.

b) Wouldn't that be more democratic and representative of the people?

c) Scottish people are sovereign and if we wish to vote for independence then that should be respected at all times. Politics doesn't stand still and people change their minds!

Scottish people are only "sovereign" on constitutional matters it would appear. They weren't "sovereign" when European judges rode roughshod over our laws, something the Poles, the Hungarians and the old dribbler himself, Michel Barnier are now railing against. 

They are also not "sovereign" when it comes to legislation being driven through Holyrood just to furnish Mrs Murrell's "woke" credentials. 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

19 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

You're assuming they (whoever they might have been) would have even considered doing what Norway did. 

We chose to support a dependency and entitlement culture instead of putting the money into an oil fund.

It's all about demands, expectations and choices. You can't spend the same money twice.

[Gizmo]

 

 

25 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Ssshhh now. Scottish independence only makes sense if you a) believe the financial evidence is falsified b) everyone deserves the government to be the party they vote for, and c) winning an election for local government is a mandate to split up a sovereign country.

Think you missed out a pertinent piece of information, wonder why...
 

[Roxy Hearts]

16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Scottish people are only "sovereign" on constitutional matters it would appear. They weren't "sovereign" when European judges rode roughshod over our laws, something the Poles, the Hungarians and the old dribbler himself, Michel Barnier are now railing against. 

They are also not "sovereign" when it comes to legislation being driven through Holyrood just to furnish Mrs Murrell's "woke" credentials. 

 

I always get the impression you're talking to yourself, Enzo! 😂

[Roxy Hearts]

13 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

 

Think you missed out a pertinent piece of information, wonder why...
 

Old boot, knew.

[pablo]

42 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

 

Think you missed out a pertinent piece of information, wonder why...
 

 

If that's all the compelling evidence you'll have to present to the Supreme Court, prepare to be disappointed by their judgement.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Why do you keep deflecting to other subjects? 

When you post wild assumptions based on nothing other than your narrow prejudice I'll just fire back some equally unrelated pish.

 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Why do you keep deflecting to other subjects? 

 

It's not at all another subject

[Enzo Chiefo]

47 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I always get the impression you're talking to yourself, Enzo! 😂

When it comes to " the Scottish people" , you might as well be talking to yourself tbh😂

[Roxy Hearts]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

When it comes to " the Scottish people" , you might as well be talking to yourself tbh😂

🤣

[Roxy Hearts]

16 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

If that's all the compelling evidence you'll have to present to the Supreme Court, prepare to be disappointed by their judgement.

I'm not sure about the Supreme Court's jurisdiction. You can be rest assured though that something within its set up will be to try and prevent Scottish independence or at least subvert our democracy. IMO. 

 

Scots Law is a separate entity and I think some of our more learned establishment should be asking questions of them. The British establishment needs taken to task and that's where the SNP fail. 

[Taffin]

2 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Ssshhh now. Scottish independence only makes sense if you a) believe the financial evidence is falsified b) everyone deserves the government to be the party they vote for, and c) winning an election for local government is a mandate to split up a sovereign country.

 

I do believe Scottish independence is the right way to go...but the Scottish electorate and their government need to find a pair of bollocks for it to a) happen and b) have any chance of it working.

 

Grievance politics isn't the way to go. It was maybe pre-2014 but the shit sandwich the Scottish find themselves in is entirely of their own making. We were given the tool to remove ourselves and didn't. A remainer in Govan is no harder done to than a remainer in the Midlands.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Taffin

[dobmisterdobster]

2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm not sure about the Supreme Court's jurisdiction. You can be rest assured though that something within its set up will be to try and prevent Scottish independence or at least subvert our democracy. IMO. 

 

Scots Law is a separate entity and I think some of our more learned establishment should be asking questions of them. The British establishment needs taken to task and that's where the SNP fail. 

 

The UK supreme court has jurisdiction over Scots law. Boris was stopped from proroguing parliament in 2019 because of Scots law.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

When you post wild assumptions based on nothing other than your narrow prejudice I'll just fire back some equally unrelated pish.

 

 

A wild assumption you squeal! So you think the crowd of failed local councillors are the high bar in politics? Christ you're even more deluded than I thought. 

[Roxy Hearts]

39 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

The UK supreme court has jurisdiction over Scots law. Boris was stopped from proroguing parliament in 2019 because of Scots law.

What parts?

[Seymour M Hersh]

9 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

Well even if they’d been on par with those who have governed at Westminster we would still be better off. 

 

And would an independent Scotland have managed to provide £370 million as loans to assist in the mining of the oil? 

[Unknown user]

11 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What parts?

 

The supreme court's the final court of appeal for all UK civil cases and criminal cases for England Wales and NI.

I don't know how things stand constitutionally

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

And would an independent Scotland have managed to provide £370 million as loans to assist in the mining of the oil? 

 

No, we're such dumb****s we'd just be banging rocks off each other and shagging like monkeys without England paying our way, we wouldn't have any actual money

 

Mining for oil...

[The Mighty Thor]

45 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

A wild assumption you squeal! So you think the crowd of failed local councillors are the high bar in politics? Christ you're even more deluded than I thought. 

And as if to prove my point.....

[Japan Jambo]

3 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

I do believe Scottish independence is the right way to go...but the Scottish electorate and their government need to find a pair of bollocks for it to a) happen and b) have any chance of it working.

 

Grievance politics isn't the way to go. It was maybe pre-2014 but the shit sandwich the Scottish find themselves in is entirely of their own making. We were given the tool to remove ourselves and didn't. A remainer in Govan is no harder done to than a remainer in the Midlands.

 

Looking in from afar there was a narrative that wee Nicky understood the finances well enough that she recognised a split as inimical to Scotland's best interests but that in order to harvest votes she had to look as if she was at least trying. Unsure whether that's unionists just cheering themselves up or that maybe there is a grain or two of truth in it.

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

And would an independent Scotland have managed to provide £370 million as loans to assist in the mining of the oil? 

Is that a serious question? You do realise how much money was being taken annually? You don’t think the poor wee Scots wouldn’t have been able to borrow that amount of money on the back of oil reserves like the UK government did? 

[Jamstomorrow]

11 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

What's tomorrow big bird? The number 4? The letter P?

It's whatever you wish it to be.   But if your want the right answer, ask an adult.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

Is that a serious question? You do realise how much money was being taken annually? You don’t think the poor wee Scots wouldn’t have been able to borrow that amount of money on the back of oil reserves like the UK government did? 

 

You do realise the loan was prior to any oil coming on shore. And I take it you're too young to remember  the 70's with three day weeks and power cuts and Callaghan going cap in hand to the IMF then. 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

You do realise the loan was prior to any oil coming on shore. And I take it you're too young to remember  the 70's with three day weeks and power cuts and Callaghan going cap in hand to the IMF then. 

Aye, the union has always been shite eh!

Made an arse of it in the 70’s and being ran by an arse today!

[manaliveits105]

6 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

You do realise the loan was prior to any oil coming on shore. And I take it you're too young to remember  the 70's with three day weeks and power cuts and Callaghan going cap in hand to the IMF then. 

Thank goodness for Lady Thatcher 

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Aye, the union has always been shite eh!

Made an arse of it in the 70’s and being ran by an arse today!

 

Being such a labour (now SNP) fan I thought you'd have been so proud of them in the 70's. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Being such a labour (now SNP) fan I thought you'd have been so proud of them in the 70's. 

Near 50 years ago?

Fairly sure most people can look back to when they were younger and shiver at some of thier life choices!

With age comes wisdom, there are some exceptions to that rule though. 😁

[The Mighty Thor]

The world is a very different place from the world of the 1970s.

 

The mainstream UK political parties haven't tumbled to this yet.

 

In fact the current UK government is trying desperately to take us back to the 1950s

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Being such a labour (now SNP) fan I thought you'd have been so proud of them in the 70's. 

in 1979 I was 9 so not really.

[Pans Jambo]

11 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

You do realise the loan was prior to any oil coming on shore. And I take it you're too young to remember  the 70's with three day weeks and power cuts and Callaghan going cap in hand to the IMF then. 

& Scotland has been paying heavily for it ever since...

[Roxy Hearts]

7 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Thank goodness for Lady Thatcher 

How old were you when she was in power? Destroyed Britain as I knew it. Part of the reason I'm a Scotnat as couldn't stand her English/British Nationalism. She exposed the differences in the UK and made me realise she or the Westminster establishment couldn't care less about the countries or the people. One of the most awful human beings ever to exist.

[Des Lynam]

13 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

You do realise the loan was prior to any oil coming on shore. And I take it you're too young to remember  the 70's with three day weeks and power cuts and Callaghan going cap in hand to the IMF then. 

Yes I’m aware what a loan for oil exploration is. Are you aware you can borrow against future revenues? 
 

The UK government made an absolute arse of it as well. You probably would be against the state route model Norway has taken instead of the private model with taxation as the only revenue generator. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

12 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Yes I’m aware what a loan for oil exploration is. Are you aware you can borrow against future revenues? 
 

The UK government made an absolute arse of it as well. You probably would be against the state route model Norway has taken instead of the private model with taxation as the only revenue generator. 

 

When you were dealing in fantasy and hypotheticals I was merely pointing out imo Scotland would not have been in a position to do what the UK did. How exactly did the (successive) UK government make an arse of it or are you just having a go at the Labour government from 75? 

[jack D and coke]

17 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

When you were dealing in fantasy and hypotheticals I was merely pointing out imo Scotland would not have been in a position to do what the UK did. How exactly did the (successive) UK government make an arse of it or are you just having a go at the Labour government from 75? 

And explain how the hell you know that? 🤣If we’d never been in the union? 
How did Norway manage it? 
Do you still live with your ma?

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

And explain how the hell you know that? 🤣If we’d never been in the union? 
How did Norway manage it? 
Do you still live with your ma?

 

I take it you missed the (imo) you really don't have an IQ larger than your shoe size do you? 

[Des Lynam]

22 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

When you were dealing in fantasy and hypotheticals I was merely pointing out imo Scotland would not have been in a position to do what the UK did. How exactly did the (successive) UK government make an arse of it or are you just having a go at the Labour government from 75? 

Scotland would have borrowed the money against future oil revenues. 
 

The UK and Norway have for arguments sake taken the same amount of oil out of the North Sea yet Norway have more than tripled the revenue from it. They chose the state involvement model which has led to $1,200 billion in real terms money since the 70’s. 

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I take it you missed the (imo) you really don't have an IQ larger than your shoe size do you? 

Aye I noticed and your imo is monkey logic pal. 
You’re basing scotland not being able to do anything purely based on Britain’s financial position in the 70’s. If we’d never have been in the union you’re imo is absolute nonsense. Nobody can know what our position would’ve been. 
I mean it’s not even if skint like we could’ve borrowed it then paid it back of the billions that flowed. 
Scotland is held back by people like you. 
IMO😂
 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Aye I noticed and your imo is monkey logic pal. 
You’re basing scotland not being able to do anything purely based on Britain’s financial position in the 70’s. If we’d never have been in the union you’re imo is absolute nonsense. Nobody can know what our position would’ve been. 
I mean it’s not even if skint like we could’ve borrowed it then paid it back of the billions that flowed. 
Scotland is held back by people like you. 
IMO😂
 

🤣

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

When you were dealing in fantasy and hypotheticals I was merely pointing out imo Scotland would not have been in a position to do what the UK did. How exactly did the (successive) UK government make an arse of it or are you just having a go at the Labour government from 75? 

 

Who GAF what Scotland might not (in your opinion) have been able to do half a century ago?

Do you think you're making good points here?

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Aye I noticed and your imo is monkey logic pal. 
You’re basing scotland not being able to do anything purely based on Britain’s financial position in the 70’s. If we’d never have been in the union you’re imo is absolute nonsense. Nobody can know what our position would’ve been. 
I mean it’s not even if skint like we could’ve borrowed it then paid it back of the billions that flowed. 
Scotland is held back by people like you. 
IMO😂
 

 

You're just a fruit loop son, absolutely bonkers. If I'm holding it back, which of course I'm not, you and your fanatical SNP sorts will destroy it. The Darien Project 2.0!