The rise and fall of The SNP.

[BarneyBattles]

21 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Because we had one 7 years ago that gave a clear result that the SNP agreed was once in a generation. Their barefaced and opportunistic squeals over Brexit are without a shred of merit. And in case you missed the pandemic the last thing we need emerging from this is another extremely divisive and damaging referendum. On the pandemic you can thank being part of the UK for the vaccine and the furlough scheme. Two more things that would have been missing if they had won in 2014. No doubt you will claim that as fear also. 

Still no economic reason to keep us then.

 

Makes you wonder what project fear and ‘better together’ was all about then when clearly rUK wouldn’t be financially better off not keeping Scotland going by your figures which are ‘facts’. 
 

All very strange but as I say, I’ve asked the question on here for years and never had an answer so not expecting one now. 

Edited April 2 by BarneyBattles

[Konrad von Carstein]

5 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

Yes, from them. Liars then and liars now. 

Jesus Christ...

[manaliveits105]

17 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

Yes, from them. Liars then and liars now. 

Without a shadow of doubt snp are  not to be trusted and a shocking record in government 

[Brighton Jambo]

30 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Bare. Faced. Lie.

 

 

It’s actually written into the white paper explicitly.  How can you call it a bare faced lie.  

Edited April 2 by Brighton Jambo

[Konrad von Carstein]

Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

 

It was a throw away comment during the hustings,  I thought better of you tbh.  (not watched your link)

[Brighton Jambo]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

It was a throw away comment during the hustings,  I thought better of you tbh.  (not watched your link)

The phrase once in a generation was explicitly written into the SNP white paper (as shown in video) How can that be considered a bare faced lie.

 

Also, you are a good poster, but don’t patronise me.  Watch the video, it’s Salmond and Sturgeon repeating over and over in a number of different settings the phrase once in a generation.  It wasn’t some throw away line it was a tactic to make sure people turned out to vote by emphasising they may never get the chance again.  

[Smithee]

3 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

it was a tactic to make sure people turned out to vote by emphasising they may never get the chance again.  

Ah ok, so not meant as a binding promise by any stretch then, thanks for clarifying.

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Ah ok, so not meant as a binding promise by any stretch then, thanks for clarifying.

It was written into their white paper on the future of Scotland.  Thanks for clarifying that wasn’t worth the paper it was written on.

 

I never said it was binding by the way.  But let’s not pretend it wasn’t said which is what Konrad was claiming.  It was said repeatedly as I have proved.  

[Konrad von Carstein]

6 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

The phrase once in a generation was explicitly written into the SNP white paper (as shown in video) How can that be considered a bare faced lie.

 

Also, you are a good poster, but don’t patronise me.  Watch the video, it’s Salmond and Sturgeon repeating over and over in a number of different settings the phrase once in a generation.  It wasn’t some throw away line it was a tactic to make sure people turned out to vote by emphasising they may never get the chance again.  

No intent to patronise... Genuinely thought better of you...Also, a material change has occurred since the result...am sure you know what that is..

[Brighton Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

No intent to patronise... Genuinely thought better of you...Also, a material change has occurred since the result...am sure you know what that is..

And I thought better if you.  You called out another poster with the phrase ‘bare faced lie’ .  I have proved categorically that you were wrong.

 

I don’t debate the landscape has changed, I don’t debate what was said may not be binding (even though it was written into the white paper) but it was said.  Unequivocally and repeatedly and you claimed that it wasn’t. 
 

p.s.  the phrase once in a lifetime was the throw away comment that I agree was a one off.  You have clearly mixed the two up.  

Edited April 2 by Brighton Jambo

[Konrad von Carstein]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

And I thought better if you.  You called out another poster with the phrase ‘bare faced lie’ .  I have proved categorically that you were wrong.

 

I don’t debate the landscape has changed, I don’t debate what was said may not be binding (even though it was written into the white paper) but it was said.  Unequivocally and repeatedly and you claimed that it wasn’t. 
 

p.s.  the phrase once in a lifetime was the throw away comment that I agree was a one off.  You have clearly mixed the two up.  

I claimed that it was a comment used in hustings... Its Friday,  I'm drinking some crap IPA that was recommended to me so bought that instead of some decent wine... Peopel are guffies... Me included.

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

I claimed that it was a comment used in hustings... Its Friday,  I'm drinking some crap IPA that was recommended to me so bought that instead of some decent wine... Peopel are guffies... Me included.

Haha well I hope after a few more cans it becomes more bearable.  My dad announced an unexpected visit tomorrow morning to drop Easter eggs off for the kids so I have avoided drinking to avoid a bollocking for being hungover.  I’m 40 FFS and still trying to avoid bollockings from my old man for drinking!  Tomorrow night I’m on it! 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Haha well I hope after a few more cans it becomes more bearable.  My dad announced an unexpected visit tomorrow morning to drop Easter eggs off for the kids so I have avoided drinking to avoid a bollocking for being hungover.  I’m 40 FFS and still trying to avoid bollockings from my old man for drinking!  Tomorrow night I’m on it! 

😂👍 Look forward to some "liberated" posting tomorrow 😁

[Smithee]

36 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

It was written into their white paper on the future of Scotland.  Thanks for clarifying that wasn’t worth the paper it was written on.

 

I never said it was binding by the way.  But let’s not pretend it wasn’t said which is what Konrad was claiming.  It was said repeatedly as I have proved.  

It's certainly a fact that Once in a generation has been used as justification for not revisiting the subject time and again, and it's a bullshit argument, which is the point.

 

[JackLadd]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

It's certainly a fact that Once in a generation has been used as justification for not revisiting the subject time and again, and it's a bullshit argument, which is the point.

 

 

The subject doesn't need revisited unless you are a teflon coated cultist and masochist who wants to live in an SNP dystopia. I agree that is a considerable percentage of the fooled proletariat but it's not enough to force or ram through another ref. That also includes their use of school age voters in May which is nothing but a cheap tactic to boost their support.  

[BarneyBattles]

5 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

The subject doesn't need revisited unless you are a teflon coated cultist and masochist who wants to live in an SNP dystopia. I agree that is a considerable percentage of the fooled proletariat but it's not enough to force or ram through another ref. That also includes their use of school age voters in May which is nothing but a cheap tactic to boost their support.  

Jack. You seem to have missed answering my questions. 
 

I’m sure it was just an oversight. 
 

Edit. If it makes it easier, I’ll repeat it. 
 

If Scotland is such a financial burden on rUK, why the need for project fear in 2013/14 and why did the pro union parties suddenly decide to send the big hitters up in the run up to the referendum?

Edited April 2 by BarneyBattles

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

Jack. You seem to have missed answering my questions. 
 

I’m sure it was just an oversight. 

 

 

Your lack of comprehension skills is fertile SNP ground, but not my problem. 

[BarneyBattles]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

Your lack of comprehension skills is fertile SNP ground, but not my problem. 

Cool. Still no answer as to why rUK is desperate for Scotland to remain in the union then. 
 

Strange that you’ve got loads of ‘facts’ as to why Scotland couldn’t survive on its own but none as to why rUK would want to keep hold of a loss leader. 

[Smithee]

18 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

The subject doesn't need revisited unless you are a teflon coated cultist and masochist who wants to live in an SNP dystopia. I agree that is a considerable percentage of the fooled proletariat but it's not enough to force or ram through another ref. That also includes their use of school age voters in May which is nothing but a cheap tactic to boost their support.  

Yet you keep revisiting it

[manaliveits105]

Even Mel Gibson told you cultists 

“one chance just one chance “

well it came and you lost time to move on - live with it 

[BarneyBattles]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Even Mel Gibson told you cultists 

“one chance just one chance “

well it came and you lost time to move on - live with it 

FFS🤣 Perhaps you should move on and realise the UK is in a completely different situation to 2014. E.G. salmon exports down by 98% as a result of England voting for Brexit. 

[XB52]

10 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

You are right on its viability and GERS, IFS, LSE are all wrong, eh. Why don't you have your sensible conversations with these bodies and their hard data on why the SNP are scoundrels. I will vote SNP only when 2 plus 2 make 5! Btw I see they were involved in ripping off UK covid grants. SNP are at the fiddle more than Farage was in the Brussels assembly. 

Well done, totally avoided my point as I expected. 

[manaliveits105]

FT front page will upset the wee cult today 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

FT front page will upset the wee cult today 

 

Yooonyinist rag alert!!!!!!!!!!

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

FT front page will upset the wee cult today 

We're not skint again or too stupid or too wee?

[OTT]

5 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

We're not skint again or too stupid or too wee?

 

There was an academic paper published by the London School of Economics detailing that we'd be better off long term if Independent. The UK government are denying disappearing it. 

 

Think this is it: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scottish-independence-cost/

 

''While Scottish independence would have immediate economic costs, history suggests there are long-term benefits'' - From what I've saw online it drew parallels to the break up of Czechoslovakia, highlighting how better off both countries are etc. 

 

''Update 2 April: We have been asked by the authors to take this article down temporarily. We will be making it available again as soon as we are able to and apologise for any inconvenience caused.'' 

 

It will be interesting to see what changes have been made when/if its republished. JRM sits on their board or something, so I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if its been removed for political reasons. 

 

Edited April 3 by OTT

[jamboy1982]

Jackladd dodging answering questions just like boris! 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

There was an academic paper published by the London School of Economics detailing that we'd be better off long term if Independent. The UK government are denying disappearing it. 

 

Think this is it: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scottish-independence-cost/

 

''While Scottish independence would have immediate economic costs, history suggests there are long-term benefits'' - From what I've saw online it drew parallels to the break up of Czechoslovakia, highlighting how better off both countries are etc. 

 

''Update 2 April: We have been asked by the authors to take this article down temporarily. We will be making it available again as soon as we are able to and apologise for any inconvenience caused.'' 

 

It will be interesting to see what changes have been made when/if its republished. JRM sits on their board or something, so I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if its been removed for political reasons. 

 

Saw that but it was pulled!

[Mikey1874]

20 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Even Mel Gibson told you cultists 

“one chance just one chance “

well it came and you lost time to move on - live with it 

 

Seeing Martin Compston greeting again makes it worthwhile. 

[jack D and coke]

5 hours ago, OTT said:

 

There was an academic paper published by the London School of Economics detailing that we'd be better off long term if Independent. The UK government are denying disappearing it. 

 

Think this is it: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scottish-independence-cost/

 

''While Scottish independence would have immediate economic costs, history suggests there are long-term benefits'' - From what I've saw online it drew parallels to the break up of Czechoslovakia, highlighting how better off both countries are etc. 

 

''Update 2 April: We have been asked by the authors to take this article down temporarily. We will be making it available again as soon as we are able to and apologise for any inconvenience caused.'' 

 

It will be interesting to see what changes have been made when/if its republished. JRM sits on their board or something, so I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if its been removed for political reasons. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Saw that but it was pulled!

https://archive.is/Dt4jP

[AlimOzturk]

Well, Well, Well

 

[AlimOzturk]

9 extra Indy seat in the parliament and 9 unionists out on that poll. Will only get better. Going to keep ignoring Alba now MSM? 
 

Let them into the tv debates. They have a bigger membership number than the liberals and are now polling significantly well. 

[AlimOzturk]

This will only get stronger as we go. Can see the unionist parties uniting at some point as they panic like ****. 
 

What a blinder AS is playing. 

[Smithee]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

This will only get stronger as we go. Can see the unionist parties uniting at some point as they panic like ****. 
 

What a blinder AS is playing. 

Labour must be freaking out, teaming up with the Tories again would pretty much wipe them out up here, but what else can they do?

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

This will only get stronger as we go. Can see the unionist parties uniting at some point as they panic like ****. 
 

What a blinder AS is playing. 

Gaming the system won't make a blind bit of difference.  Winning a disproportionate number of seats in Holyrood,  after securing about 50% of the vote in a country where half the country can't even be bothered voting, is not a mandate for another referendum.  Parochial politics that only affects those in the bubble. 

[manaliveits105]

Oh Alex it was always you 

[Justin Z]

On 02/04/2021 at 23:32, BarneyBattles said:

Cool. Still no answer

 

It's a consistent theme in here, to be fair

[Justin Z]

16 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Labour must be freaking out, teaming up with the Tories again would pretty much wipe them out up here, but what else can they do?

 

The right thing—change their stance on Indy.

 

Do we actually think they will have the awareness to do that?

[Smithee]

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Gaming the system won't make a blind bit of difference.  Winning a disproportionate number of seats in Holyrood,  after securing about 50% of the vote in a country where half the country can't even be bothered voting, is not a mandate for another referendum.  Parochial politics that only affects those in the bubble. 

If an 80 strong majority government in Westminster based on 43% of the vote is mandate enough to get Brexit done with a shitty deal then this would be more than mandate enough to ask a question 

[manaliveits105]

16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Gaming the system won't make a blind bit of difference.  Winning a disproportionate number of seats in Holyrood,  after securing about 50% of the vote in a country where half the country can't even be bothered voting, is not a mandate for another referendum.  Parochial politics that only affects those in the bubble. 

This and the numbers suggest they would not win any indyref2 anytime soon .

[Justin Z]

Just now, Smithee said:

If an 80 strong majority government in Westminster based on 43% of the vote is mandate enough to get Brexit done with a shitty deal then this would be more than mandate enough to ask a question 

 

Ah, but you forget: When it comes to the Union and Westminster, it's “one rule for me”. When it comes to Scotland and its welfare, it's “another rule for thee”.

[AlimOzturk]

19 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Gaming the system won't make a blind bit of difference.  Winning a disproportionate number of seats in Holyrood,  after securing about 50% of the vote in a country where half the country can't even be bothered voting, is not a mandate for another referendum.  Parochial politics that only affects those in the bubble. 

How is using the political system available to your advantage “gaming the system?” That’s what every party does in every election. Look at how the tories get in through FPTP with a disproportionate amount of votes for a majority. Is that gaming the system?

 

Not that long ago the unionists saying the Alba would be irrelevant.  Now it Is “gaming the system”

 

make your mind up. 

 

 

Edited April 4 by AlimOzturk

[AlimOzturk]

Fwiw I reckon the Alba party will get in the region of 11-12 seats. They will eat into the tory seats as I reckon they will appeal to the undecided Indy voters and the more central policies. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

If an 80 strong majority government in Westminster based on 43% of the vote is mandate enough to get Brexit done with a shitty deal then this would be more than mandate enough to ask a question 

The same "shitty" deal the SNP want to base 64% of our total trade on, by joining the corrupt, discredited behemoth that is the EU?

[Enzo Chiefo]

11 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

How is using the political system available to your advantage “gaming the system?” That’s what every party does in every election. Look at how the tories get in through FPTP with a disproportionate amount of votes for a majority. Is that gaming the system?

 

Not that long ago the unionists saying the Alba would be irrelevant.  Now it Is “gaming the system”

 

make your mind up. 

 

 

A single issue party is borrowing votes from another single issue party, in order to gain a super-majority of single issue MSPs. When only around 50% of the country support that single issue, then that is "gaming" the system. The system was designed for good governance so that no single party had a majority. Not to be used to bang on constantly about a reserved matter.

[AlimOzturk]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

A single issue party is borrowing votes from another single issue party, in order to gain a super-majority of single issue MSPs. When only around 50% of the country support that single issue, then that is "gaming" the system. The system was designed for good governance so that no single party had a majority. Not to be used to bang on constantly about a reserved matter.

Nothing stopping unionist parties from doing the same thing. Nothing. There is three major unionist parties and now 3 Indy supporting parties. What is unfair about that?

 

didn’t the tories all but buy the DUP support to gain a majority not the long ago? 

[gjcc]

11 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Nothing stopping unionist parties from doing the same thing. Nothing. There is three major unionist parties and now 3 Indy supporting parties. What is unfair about that?

 

didn’t the tories all but buy the DUP support to gain a majority not the long ago? 

Aye but that billion pounds political bribe would be saved in only 3 weeks by not sending 370million to the EU every week. 
 

or was that a lie? Surely no. 
 

Edit: sorry, £350million

Edited April 4 by gjcc

[jamboy1982]

10 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Nothing stopping unionist parties from doing the same thing. Nothing. There is three major unionist parties and now 3 Indy supporting parties. What is unfair about that?

 

didn’t the tories all but buy the DUP support to gain a majority not the long ago? 

They did indeed. May managed to locate a magical money tree and binged them a billion to back her up 

[AlimOzturk]

7 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

They did indeed. May managed to locate a magical money tree and binged them a billion to back her up 

They also formed a coalition with the LD as well so Enzo trying to claim unfairness at “gaming the system” ought to remember who he is comparing that to. The tories, the so called unionist party, have been “gaming” the system for donkies. 
 

 

[gjcc]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

They also formed a coalition with the LD as well so Enzo trying to claim unfairness at “gaming the system” ought to remember who he is comparing that to. The tories, the so called unionist party, have been “gaming” the system for donkies. 
 

 

The Scottish Tories. Such a single policy party that the put it in their actual name.