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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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AlimOzturk
11 minutes ago, gjcc said:


The Scottish Tories. Such a single policy party that the put it in their actual name. :lol: 


Douglas Ross mentioned independence more than any of the other political parties combined in the last debate. They are far and wide the most single issue party out of the lot of the.  
 

the polling above suggests 62% of parliament being Indy supporters. That would getting incredibly close to the super majority which would mean a plebiscite could be held without the permission of WM

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Enzo Chiefo
32 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


Nothing stopping unionist parties from doing the same thing. Nothing. There is three major unionist parties and now 3 Indy supporting parties. What is unfair about that?

 

didn’t the tories all but buy the DUP support to gain a majority not the long ago? 

I agree,  nothing to stop the Unionist parties doing the same. But the system wasn't designed for that purpose.  The Holyrood elections are about devolved powers and how Scotland is governed, using those powers.  They're not about confronting the WM govt on reserved matters. If the SNP doesn't want to focus on the devolved powers within their competency, then step aside and return to being a protest party . Alternatively WM could make the decision and take the powers back there. 

In my view, the list seats should be used to ensure a fair allocation of seats among those parties standing in the constituencies. List only parties should be banned.

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Enzo Chiefo
32 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

They did indeed. May managed to locate a magical money tree and binged them a billion to back her up 

Much like the magic lentil tree that the SNP conjure up each year when they bung the Greens a backhander to let their budget pass. 

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Smithee
1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The same "shitty" deal the SNP want to base 64% of our total trade on, by joining the corrupt, discredited behemoth that is the EU?

Just leaping out of the mandate conversation are we?

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Mikey1874

George Galloway and Alex Salmond in the next Parliament (not sure if that's how it works) would be fun. 

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scott herbertson

EyEbAZeXEAM-bJG?format=jpg&name=small 

 


Poor republicans living in council houses have been given this encouragement to vote by the Conservatives. Pretty shoddy stuff
!.

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JDK2020
14 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

George Galloway and Alex Salmond in the next Parliament (not sure if that's how it works) would be fun. 

 

It wouldn't really.

The wee third-rate talking shop is already ridiculous enough without introducing these two sleazy has-beens to the fray to posture and preen whilst achieving the square root of sweet F.A. - other than inflating their already considerable bank balances

IMO, the whole ****ing shambles is needing shut down, not made into even more of a red neck for Scots.

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41 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

 

It wouldn't really.

The wee third-rate talking shop is already ridiculous enough without introducing these two sleazy has-beens to the fray to posture and preen whilst achieving the square root of sweet F.A. - other than inflating their already considerable bank balances

IMO, the whole ****ing shambles is needing shut down, not made into even more of a red neck for Scots.

The only Scots with red necks are the pathetic posters like you on here. 

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Just leaping out of the mandate conversation are we?

A political answer that Wee Burney herself would be proud of👍. Yes, mandates, well the mandate for Brexit was sealed in June 2016.  Boris made the 2019 GE a "Get Brexit Done" election and won a huge majority. The past year had been dominated  almost exclusively by those who were trying to thwart democracy. I agree , FTTP is not perfect but neither is the AV system here.

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Seymour M Hersh
2 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

EyEbAZeXEAM-bJG?format=jpg&name=small 

 


Poor republicans living in council houses have been given this encouragement to vote by the Conservatives. Pretty shoddy stuff
!.

 

What is shoddy about it? 

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scott herbertson
Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

What is shoddy about it? 

 

Just having a go at another party instead of putting up your own policies - trying to scare people off voting for someone else instead of saying why they should vote for you. 

Just my opinion, but it's something that bugs me and puts me off voting for parties that do it.

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Seymour M Hersh
Just now, scott herbertson said:

 

Just having a go at another party instead of putting up your own policies - trying to scare people off voting for someone else instead of saying why they should vote for you. 

Just my opinion, but it's something that bugs me and puts me off voting for parties that do it.

 

It's electioneering. Making it clear what your opposition really stand for as opposed to what they are saying locally on the doorsteps (not that they can do that at the moment). I'm sure they'll also be distributing leaflets selling their own policies. I've certainly received stuff from them and the libdems already. 

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scott herbertson
2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's electioneering. Making it clear what your opposition really stand for as opposed to what they are saying locally on the doorsteps (not that they can do that at the moment). I'm sure they'll also be distributing leaflets selling their own policies. I've certainly received stuff from them and the libdems already. 

 

 

Well yes, but surely that should be only once you tell them what you stand for yourself -knocking others without putting your own policies up there to see is , well , shoddy - in my opinion. Also I don't think the Greens really stand for EXTREME LEFT WING POLITICS!

 

Radical changes yes, but it is pretty naff to scaremonger like that IMO.

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2 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

EyEbAZeXEAM-bJG?format=jpg&name=small 

 


Poor republicans living in council houses have been given this encouragement to vote by the Conservatives. Pretty shoddy stuff
!.

How do you know its from the tories?

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scott herbertson
8 minutes ago, Candy said:

How do you know its from the tories?

 

 

I think it says it at the bottom - mind you my eyesight and the picture isn't that good....

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manaliveits105
3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

George Galloway and Alex Salmond in the next Parliament (not sure if that's how it works) would be fun. 

May as well the snp have turned the Scottish administration into a circus 

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JDK2020
4 hours ago, XB52 said:

The only Scots with red necks are the pathetic posters like you on here. 

 

:jj_facepalm:

 

:clyay:

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Smithee
6 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

A political answer that Wee Burney herself would be proud of👍. Yes, mandates, well the mandate for Brexit was sealed in June 2016.  Boris made the 2019 GE a "Get Brexit Done" election and won a huge majority. The past year had been dominated  almost exclusively by those who were trying to thwart democracy. I agree , FTTP is not perfect but neither is the AV system here.

 

Political answer my arse, it's the point you put forward that I disagreed with.

 

The huge majority you speak of was won with 43% of the vote, a smaller percentage than the SNP got up here. So I'd say yes, if the election goes the way it's looking, a Scottish government formed by the SNP, Alba and the Greens absolutely would have a mandate to ask the electorate their democratic opinion.

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coconut doug
9 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

A political answer that Wee Burney herself would be proud of👍. Yes, mandates, well the mandate for Brexit was sealed in June 2016.  Boris made the 2019 GE a "Get Brexit Done" election and won a huge majority. The past year had been dominated  almost exclusively by those who were trying to thwart democracy. I agree , FTTP is not perfect but neither is the AV system here.

 

We don't have an AV system for the Scottish parliament.

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Seymour M Hersh
23 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

We don't have an AV system for the Scottish parliament.

 

True it's system from 100 years ago. A Belgian Mathematician's algorithm  is what we're stuck with. Kind of fitting given the SNP's unconditional love for the EU. 

Edited by Seymour M Hersh
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Think Alba are up to 6% already which seems pretty good so far. Greens only on 8% and lib dems on what? 5%? IIRC. If Salmond can get onto the TV debates then I can see that taking a jump up beyond the greens. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

We don't have an AV system for the Scottish parliament.

If the latest polls are right then I'll have to apologise to you and say that Alba could be a positive change for independence. Still don't agree with them but, if it helps to take us forward to independence then who cares

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weehammy
2 hours ago, OTT said:

Think Alba are up to 6% already which seems pretty good so far. Greens only on 8% and lib dems on what? 5%? IIRC. If Salmond can get onto the TV debates then I can see that taking a jump up beyond the greens. 

 

 

....or declining due to peoples’ distaste for the ego-driven sleazeball!
 

 

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tian447
1 minute ago, weehammy said:

....or declining due to peoples’ distaste for the ego-driven sleazeball!
 

 

This.  He had his chance, and his personal character is questionable.  I don't trust him, or like him in the slightest.

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Mikey1874

If Alba do well and it helps the case for a Referendum what will Sturgeon say then?

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Ron Burgundy

Just saw a bill poster saying in an independent Scotland they will double the state pension. 
Now I’m all for that but it doesn’t state how that will be paid for and I’m still waiting on their pledge from many years ago of abolishing the unfair council tax. 
This is up there with Nigels Brexit bus. 

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Mikey1874
39 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Just saw a bill poster saying in an independent Scotland they will double the state pension. 
Now I’m all for that but it doesn’t state how that will be paid for and I’m still waiting on their pledge from many years ago of abolishing the unfair council tax. 
This is up there with Nigels Brexit bus. 

 

That would be around £1500 every 4 weeks.

 

Happy days. 

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Mikey1874

If the state pension is doubled, then I will earn with my private pension £5000 more per year than I do currently on full wage. 

 

I earn a good deal more than average earnings. 

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coconut doug
1 hour ago, XB52 said:

If the latest polls are right then I'll have to apologise to you and say that Alba could be a positive change for independence. Still don't agree with them but, if it helps to take us forward to independence then who cares

 

I'm glad you got back. i was going to ask if you'd changed your mind. I think it is a low risk strategy as there are only 4 SNP list msps and even if Alba dont get much i cant see a loss for pro indy seats unless something unusual happens. There is possibly an argument for SNP 1 and 2 in south Scotland though. 

   The reaction of the media and the SNP to Alba shows they are a serious threat to the precious union.

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Enzo Chiefo

Free beer in an Independent Scotland, apparently.  All paid for by these magic economic levers that we so desperately need. An economic cattle prod may be more appropriate for the many thousands who have never worked a day in their life.

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coconut doug
2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Free beer in an Independent Scotland, apparently.  All paid for by these magic economic levers that we so desperately need. An economic cattle prod may be more appropriate for the many thousands who have never worked a day in their life.

 

You persistently claim that we are workshy. Are you able to substantiate that the people of Scotland are more likely to have never worked a day in their lives than those living in other parts of the UK?

 

Although similar the unemployment rate in Scotland has often been lower than other parts of the UK.

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Billions in government terms isn't mindblowing figures. Boris wasted £37bn alone on that track and trace app that didn't work and I don't think he's even batted an eye. Trident renewal is £205 billion. Assuming our contribution matches our population we're paying around 8.2% of that, so £16.8 billion (or there about). 

 

In terms of where the money would come from, we'd no longer be participating in or paying for Trident, so I suspect we'd make huge savings there and just generally managing our natural resources and economy better than Westminster currently does. 

 

Also, I'm fairly certain Mr Hague is conflating joining the euro and the criteria there to joining the EU which is different. Our deficit would need to be as he outlines if we wanted the euro, but as far as I'm aware, we don't.  (its the Maastricht criteria if anyones interested). 

 

£8.2bn which assuming accurate (considering this is a hardline unionist) seems pretty decent to improving the lives of older people immeasurably. I'd like to know why people think its acceptable that the UK has one of the worst pensions in europe? 

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Enzo Chiefo
2 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

You persistently claim that we are workshy. Are you able to substantiate that the people of Scotland are more likely to have never worked a day in their lives than those living in other parts of the UK?

 

Although similar the unemployment rate in Scotland has often been lower than other parts of the UK.

The rest of the UK is not claiming they can double the State Pension or hand out freebies like sweeties. The rUK try to ensure that work pays and that the benefits systems reflect this. The SNP consistently try to "mitigate" these measures, racking up an even higher deficit.

 

I'm not claiming the workshy element is any greater than certain other parts of rUK but an independent Scotland would not be able to carry these people and adopt the same "votes for freebies " policies that they do at present.  By claiming,  without ever providing any detail,  that Scotland could be a "fairer, more equal society", the SNP seem to be in favour of a move towards a command economy with far more state intervention,  rather than the market, price driven economy that has provided so much economic growth over decades. These types of economies,  although always failing,  relied on full employment and everyone pulling their weight. The Soviets had women sitting on stools in lifts pressing the buttons ffs. 

Fair enough if the SNP levelled with the nation but they don't and they won't. 

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Smithee

We have the worst state pensions in Europe IIRC, it's not mental to want to improve that and if every other country can find a way to prioritise it then so can we.

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manaliveits105

When will the free recreational drugs for 16 - 21 year olds in an independent Scotland be announced ? 

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5 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

When will the free recreational drugs for 16 - 21 year olds in an independent Scotland be announced ? 


Don’t think that’ll be possible whilst folks like yourself continually take up the whole supply. 😝

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weehammy
8 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

When will the free recreational drugs for 16 - 21 year olds in an independent Scotland be announced ? 

Free football season tickets too. Can’t wait.

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weehammy
12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

We have the worst state pensions in Europe IIRC, it's not mental to want to improve that and if every other country can find a way to prioritise it then so can we.

Retirement age will be 40 too! :sweeet:

 

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manaliveits105

Glasvegas will be the capital cause its miles better so it is - Scotland with style an that definettly 

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Smithee
1 minute ago, weehammy said:

Retirement age will be 40 too! :sweeet:

 

Why do you think our pensioners should have the worst deal in Europe?

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weehammy
1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

I'm glad you got back. i was going to ask if you'd changed your mind. I think it is a low risk strategy as there are only 4 SNP list msps and even if Alba dont get much i cant see a loss for pro indy seats unless something unusual happens. There is possibly an argument for SNP 1 and 2 in south Scotland though. 

   The reaction of the media and the SNP to Alba shows they are a serious threat to the precious union.

No stopping Alba now that Steve Cardownie is backing them too. He’s gone from Labour to SNP to Alba. Still time for him to defect to the Greens.

 

:clyay:

 

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Ron Burgundy
10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Why do you think our pensioners should have the worst deal in Europe?

I don’t think they should. I think doubling it is a great idea. I would like to know how they plan to do this and what services will be cut in order to do it. 

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Seymour M Hersh
19 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Why do you think our pensioners should have the worst deal in Europe?

 

Classic POST. 

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coconut doug
17 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The rest of the UK is not claiming they can double the State Pension or hand out freebies like sweeties. The rUK try to ensure that work pays and that the benefits systems reflect this. The SNP consistently try to "mitigate" these measures, racking up an even higher deficit.

 

I'm not claiming the workshy element is any greater than certain other parts of rUK but an independent Scotland would not be able to carry these people and adopt the same "votes for freebies " policies that they do at present.  By claiming,  without ever providing any detail,  that Scotland could be a "fairer, more equal society", the SNP seem to be in favour of a move towards a command economy with far more state intervention,  rather than the market, price driven economy that has provided so much economic growth over decades. These types of economies,  although always failing,  relied on full employment and everyone pulling their weight. The Soviets had women sitting on stools in lifts pressing the buttons ffs. 

Fair enough if the SNP levelled with the nation but they don't and they won't. 

 

We don't have a deficit in Scotland. The SNP will not be in power for any significant period in Scotland and those who wish a more market led approach to government will be as free as anybody else to put forward their ideas.

 

If Scotland can't be a fairer more equal society then there is no point in Indy but as we live in just about the most unequal society in the so called developed world the potential for greater fairness is massive. 

 

Why would you tell us that we are workshy if you didn't think that was a defining characteriasic of Scotland?

 

Freebies as you describe them have to be paid for as you frequently tell us in other posts. We pay for them and we get to decide which we want and which we dont. The NHS being the biggest freebie where malingerers of every description can get treated for any illness that takes their fancy without any personal cost. Indeed we even feed them when they are in hospital without charge which of course is an abuse of taxpayers money. We let them visit the general practitioner, again without charge if they think they might have something wrong with them. We give them free diagnostic tests and treatments just because they are unwell. Surely we should charge for the GPs time, the treatment and the prescription and abandon the notion of holistic care totally as it is clearly too expensive. Much better to have people make their own choices about whether to eat or buy their anti- psychotics instead. Same with the old people, why shoould they be supported to live independently at the taxpayers expense when they could just die of neglect instead if their relatives wont or can't look after them.

  Why should we feed the offspring of the poor surely that's the responsibilty of their workshy parents, if they have any? Why should we provide education and training for our youth at minimal expense to them? There is after all no such thing as society according to some of your ilk. We should make the poor pay for everything they get and make a profit out of it too just like student loans. 

  Seriously why is it that you can't see that these freebies as you call them are the hallmarks of a civilised society and are of mutual benefit. Keeping the people poor and hungry and in bad health may be the Tory way but that is what we are trying to get away from. Society benefits from social spending. All the most successful and happiest countries spend heavily on health and social care, if you dont you end up like the USA or Brazil.

 

The market economy has been an abject failure for many its primacy another Thatcher myth. The holy grail of economic growth is ending especially for low skill countries like the UK. We need to invest in our people instead of importing our skills from other countries.

 

  We had people sitting on stools pressing buttons too at the same time the SU did in government offices and department stores. Many were old soldiers incapable of doing much else. Nowadays our prisons, homeless shelters and mental institutions are full of them. Robbed of their dignity the best many can hope for is a hand out from a charity.

 

People liked living in the Soviet Union they understood that there is more to life than self interest and appreciated the different opportunities it afforded.

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