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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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Pasquale for King
2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

So what I'm getting after 195 pages of this shite is that Scotland should stay in the union because it cannot go it alone.

 

JUST CANNAE DAE IT.

 

Any positive cases for staying part of the union????? Anyone????? Anything?????

When’s the fall is what I’m waiting for 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

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1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Graham is a great person, as is Ann. Will take your word for it that there was something amiss. 
Craig Berry is also a good guy. 
Alex Arthur is a thick racist Hibs *****. 

 

I'm sure he is, I just absolutely take issue with how he put in the Lothians list despite having no apparent connection to the Lothians, and a perfectly good hardworking local BAME candidate missing out. 

 

Regarding Alex Arthur, he's not racist. A couple of daft (and they were daft) tweets. He's not a politician and I suspect would have worded them differently had he planned to go into politics, I can remember my local coop having issues with Romanian 'beggers', so its maybe worth highlighting is a genuine issue that undermines the struggle genuine beggars go through. He offers something different to other candidates, and TBH I'm getting a bit sick of sneering/dogpiling from SNP youth wing 'champagne socialists' on twitter. Think the SNP has attracted a lot of people not actually that fussed in achieving Independence but rather prioritising identity politics which has done nothing but divide a movement that was previously united under a single cause. 

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Pasquale for King
7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Haha.  I think you knew that was a typo, PfK. The difference between 66bn and 81bn is indeed 15bn though. Do you want a breakdown of where the money is spent? Off the top of my patch,  it's 30% on the ever fashionable "social protection", 17% on health, only 4.5% on defence,  reserved to WM of course but something an independent Scotland would be responsible for, 8% on crime prevention,  policing etc. 

The £15b deficit is a myth I’m afraid. There are no figures for what an Independent Scotland that can borrow money would do. 
Scotland is a net contributor to the U.K., why else would they be so desperate to stop our democratic right to another referendum? 

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28 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


Not just a few more hurdles though is it? I can’t just say **** it I fancy travelling round Spain next year then go live in Italy for 6 months without significant hurdles in between. The whole point of freedom of movement is to stop all that shite. Why do humans need barriers in their way?

 

Know how many amazing experiences I have had travelling Europe without a care in the world. I feel sorry for my kids who can’t just do that. 
 

The union and the split in the Tory party did that. Not Scotland who overwhelmingly voted against it. 


Ask the EU why there is barriers, needless for uk passport holders. Nothing has changed, the people in the uk are the same. Why not allow them to move freely since we already had that relationship. 

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Pans Jambo
2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

When’s the fall is what I’m waiting for 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

Exactly. Lad should ask for a thread title name change to: “Dougie the linesman Ross is quality entertainment” :rofl:Tolies have nae chance!

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Pans Jambo
Just now, Dazo said:


Ask the EU why there is barriers, needless for uk passport holders. Nothing has changed, the people in the uk are the same. Why not allow them to move freely since we already had that relationship. 

Aye leave the club but expect to get the same benefits?

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1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Aye leave the club but expect to get the same benefits?


Had to give up my season ticket due to work. Wis raging at the turnstiles when they wouldn’t let me in at the next home game I could attend. We had that relationship the season before. 

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Pasquale for King
2 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I'm sure he is, I just absolutely take issue with how he put in the Lothians list despite having no apparent connection to the Lothians, and a perfectly good hardworking local BAME candidate missing out. 

 

Regarding Alex Arthur, he's not racist. A couple of daft (and they were daft) tweets. He's not a politician and I suspect would have worded them differently had he planned to go into politics, I can remember my local coop having issues with Romanian 'beggers', so its maybe worth highlighting is a genuine issue that undermines the struggle genuine beggars go through. He offers something different to other candidates, and TBH I'm getting a bit sick of sneering/dogpiling from SNP youth wing 'champagne socialists' on twitter. Think the SNP has attracted a lot of people not actually that fussed in achieving Independence but rather prioritising identity politics which has done nothing but divide a movement that was previously united under a single cause. 

I’m not sure if that was Graham’s faint though, he and one of my old mates Ewan Hunter were both trying to get the nomination for Edinburgh Western but failed so I think that’s why he was put on the list. 
Ive no doubt the SNP ate full of careerists who don’t have independence as their main goal, which is diametrically opposed (Michael Stewart inspired) to myself which is why I’m not in that or any party. 
I don’t think phrasing his racism differently makes it not racist but alongside backing from Galloway, Sheridan, Stuart Campbell and Craig Murray it’s not good “optics” as they say. 

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Pasquale for King
7 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Exactly. Lad should ask for a thread title name change to: “Dougie the linesman Ross is quality entertainment” :rofl:Tolies have nae chance!

Sarwar has a wee dig at him and Davidson by saying it would silly or me to stand here and claim I will be the next FM 😂😆

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7 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Aye leave the club but expect to get the same benefits?


Why not ? I assume you will expect the freedom to move around the uk after independence ? Or share military and currency ? 
 

What harm would it do to EU ? 

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19 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I'm sure he is, I just absolutely take issue with how he put in the Lothians list despite having no apparent connection to the Lothians, and a perfectly good hardworking local BAME candidate missing out. 

 

Regarding Alex Arthur, he's not racist. A couple of daft (and they were daft) tweets. He's not a politician and I suspect would have worded them differently had he planned to go into politics, I can remember my local coop having issues with Romanian 'beggers', so its maybe worth highlighting is a genuine issue that undermines the struggle genuine beggars go through. He offers something different to other candidates, and TBH I'm getting a bit sick of sneering/dogpiling from SNP youth wing 'champagne socialists' on twitter. Think the SNP has attracted a lot of people not actually that fussed in achieving Independence but rather prioritising identity politics which has done nothing but divide a movement that was previously united under a single cause. 


Arthur is an anti-vaxxer and despises the homeless. Who's the champagne socialist?  

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AlimOzturk
15 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Ask the EU why there is barriers, needless for uk passport holders. Nothing has changed, the people in the uk are the same. Why not allow them to move freely since we already had that relationship. 


Aii leave EU but get to keep the privileges of the EU at the same time. :rofl:

 

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Why not ? I assume you will expect the freedom to move around the uk after independence ? Or share military and currency ? 
 

What harm would it do to EU ? 

 

I would imagine we would reintroduce Scottish military forces. As for currency I doubt I really doubt it would be to complicated to find a currency to use. Euro/pound won’t really matter considering the massive shift to contactless payments. The same debate we had in 2014 regarding currency is not the same thing. 
 

As for your comment regarding borders between Scotland and the rest of the island we border :cornette:

 
 

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Enzo Chiefo
18 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The £15b deficit is a myth I’m afraid. There are no figures for what an Independent Scotland that can borrow money would do. 
Scotland is a net contributor to the U.K., why else would they be so desperate to stop our democratic right to another referendum? 

So there are no "hypothetical " figures for what a "hypothetical" independent Scotland would look like? Why would there be? That's why we look at the Profit & Loss account based on our current position. Pretty much what a mortgage provider does.  

If it was based solely on economics then, yes, the rUK would jump at the chance of getting rid of us. But it's not. The Union is about social, familial, historical, cultural ties. Crossing an imaginary white line doesn't change the people. 

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Smithee
15 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Why not ? I assume you will expect the freedom to move around the uk after independence ? Or share military and currency ? 
 

What harm would it do to EU ? 

Why would anyone expect the EU to grant freedom of movement (which is enshrined specifically for workers by the way, not citizens) and not get the same in return for it's workers?

Why didn't we offer it if it was something we wanted?

 

If we agree freedom of movement with England it would be reasonable to expect, if we don't....

Edited by Smithee
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Enzo Chiefo
2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


Aii leave EU but get to keep the privileges of the EU at the same time. :rofl:

 

 

I would imagine we would reintroduce Scottish military forces. As for currency I doubt I really doubt it would be to complicated to find a currency to use. Euro/pound won’t really matter considering the massive shift to contactless payments. The same debate we had in 2014 regarding currency is not the same thing. 
 

As for your comment regarding borders between Scotland and the rest of the island we border :cornette:

 
 

It would be a UK/EU border. You know how fanatical EU officials get about their precious single market cartel. Thankfully,  the Scottish people have seen through the "why would there be" hope over fear pish we were subjected to back in 2014

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Enzo Chiefo
35 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


Did you factor in that the majority of our exports leave English ports and are accordingly counted as English revenue?

Or the fact we paid more in per head of population, than anywhere else in the UK - at least up until 2013 when the figures stopped being recorded. Currently, we are probably only lower than the S.East, which is skewed by the revenues raised in the City.  

So, on that basis, we are more than well equipped to thrive because:

a) we can borrow easily at the current low interest rates, with our currency backed by our oil reserves and our excellent GDP. 
b) all our exports will be counted as Scottish revenue
c) we can choose not to spend on preposterous investments that we are currently charged for - Trident, High Speed rail systems that stop at Birmingham but supposedly benefit Scotland, etc etc - allowing money to be spent where it is needed, not given to tory donators' ficticious companies by a hideously corrupt government. 

So, to sum up, any additional spending over GDP (which is currently not correctly calculated), comes from Westminster as borrowing, not from rUK taxpayers. An independent Scotland could leverage similar funding sources backed by our diverse economy, and choose to spend it much more effectively on health, education, infrastructure etc and less on lining tory donors pockets, vanity projects that don't benefit us or unethical WMDs.

Good to know.  

 

Absolute nonsense.  Full of "would be", "used to be". For the avoidance of doubt, Scotland now raises less than rUK taxpayers and has done for several years. Defence spending accounts for 4.5% of our total spend and is, in effect,  negligible.  

We don't know at what rate a new state would pay for borrowing,  but it would more than likely be substantially more than a UK with an established currency,  lender of last resort and credit history. 

The UK does borrow money, yes, but the bulk of our increased funding comes from "pooling and sharing" aka rUK taxpayers. Our deficit/GDP ratio is 4 times that of rUK.  Those issues can't just be "magiced" away.

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Seymour M Hersh
19 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

It would be a UK/EU border. You know how fanatical EU officials get about their precious single market cartel. Thankfully,  the Scottish people have seen through the "why would there be" hope over fear pish we were subjected to back in 2014

 

I've always wondered why europhiles bang on about the way you can move anywhere to work in the EU without needing a work permit as being such a vital reason for being members. Exactly what % of the UK population ever needed to or took advantage of this? Must have been tiny. 

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Seymour M Hersh
40 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Sarwar has a wee dig at him and Davidson by saying it would silly or me to stand here and claim I will be the next FM 😂😆

 

Or he knows labour are a busted flush. 

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7 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


Arthur is an anti-vaxxer and despises the homeless. Who's the champagne socialist?  

 

Mischaracterising nonsense. The champagne Socialists are the youth in the SNP whose biggest obstacle in life has been not getting into their first choice uni or finding the next thing they can be offended by. The same ones more interested in playing identity politics than pushing real issues (like the attainment gap). 

 

The same twenty somethings sneering at him are the same ones that have had a first class education, went to uni and are pretty much set. Not folk from council estates etc. who may look up to him as someone who was able to raise themselves out of that. I think people like him are needed in politics. Too much talk and not enough pushing of local issues which can make genuine impacts to peoples lives. 

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Konrad von Carstein
49 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Absolute nonsense.  Full of "would be", "used to be". For the avoidance of doubt, Scotland now raises less than rUK taxpayers and has done for several years. Defence spending accounts for 4.5% of our total spend and is, in effect,  negligible.  

We don't know at what rate a new state would pay for borrowing,  but it would more than likely be substantially more than a UK with an established currency,  lender of last resort and credit history. 

The UK does borrow money, yes, but the bulk of our increased funding comes from "pooling and sharing" aka rUK taxpayers. Our deficit/GDP ratio is 4 times that of rUK.  Those issues can't just be "magiced" away.

I have some doubts,  can you link your source for your forceful proffering of this please?

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1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:


Aii leave EU but get to keep the privileges of the EU at the same time. :rofl:

 

 

I would imagine we would reintroduce Scottish military forces. As for currency I doubt I really doubt it would be to complicated to find a currency to use. Euro/pound won’t really matter considering the massive shift to contactless payments. The same debate we had in 2014 regarding currency is not the same thing. 
 

As for your comment regarding borders between Scotland and the rest of the island we border :cornette:

 
 


Yeah mate independent countries have there own borders. I would have thought a well travelled person would have been aware of that. As for the rest no wonder you need smilies, our own currency and military eh ? 😂

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Big Slim Stylee
10 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

"up to"  my guess would be that we'd achieve membership sooner than that conservative timescale...


Having spent the majority of my adult life in USA, I do believe that some sort of federal States system is the best for us. It’s depressing how vile this independence argument is now. The issue should be how you govern. 

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Konrad von Carstein
1 minute ago, Big Slim Stylee said:


Having spent the majority of my adult life in USA, I do believe that some sort of federal States system is the best for us. It’s depressing how vile this independence argument is now. The issue should be how you govern. 

Ironically,  in the genesis of the indy debate I would have agreed re a federal system... However in my opinion, and its mine,  the lying and falsehoods used by the BT brigade and 10+ years of the infernal tory govt are the reasons we need indy.

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Big Slim Stylee
Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

Ironically,  in the genesis of the indy debate I would have agreed re a federal system... However in my opinion, and its mine,  the lying and falsehoods used by the BT brigade and 10+ years of the infernal tory govt are the reasons we need indy.


I see in the SNP what I saw in Scottish Labour, mate - and I’m still a long-time member. Not a wish to govern for people, just for power. It’s depressing how little they have actually managed to get done? Coming back gives you a bit of distance on it. Not saying I’m right by any means. Just an outsider/Scots look

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Konrad von Carstein
Just now, Big Slim Stylee said:


I see in the SNP what I saw in Scottish Labour, mate - and I’m still a long-time member. Not a wish to govern for people, just for power. It’s depressing how little they have actually managed to get done? Coming back gives you a bit of distance on it. Not saying I’m right by any means. Just an outsider/Scots look

I get where you're coming from and maybe the Alba party will put a rocket up some arses in the SNP and slap the complacency out of them.

I vote & am a member of the SNP as they are a means to an end, however,  some of my circle would be surprised at who I would vote for in an independent Scotland (not tory or labour though :lol:)

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Big Slim Stylee

My mother’s side- all SNP but not now. They’ve worked in sectors utterly mismanaged by an incompetent bunch. Alba is a vehicle for a grubby little man that doesn’t care about anyone apart from himself.

 

 

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Big Slim Stylee
9 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

I get where you're coming from and maybe the Alba party will put a rocket up some arses in the SNP and slap the complacency out of them.

I vote & am a member of the SNP as they are a means to an end, however,  some of my circle would be surprised at who I would vote for in an independent Scotland (not tory or labour though :lol:)


Sorry meant to quote, chap.

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Big Slim Stylee
13 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

I get where you're coming from and maybe the Alba party will put a rocket up some arses in the SNP and slap the complacency out of them.

I vote & am a member of the SNP as they are a means to an end, however,  some of my circle would be surprised at who I would vote for in an independent Scotland (not tory or labour though :lol:)


Single issue politics is generally a bad thing. Just govern well? Make people’s lives better would help.

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Konrad von Carstein
1 minute ago, Big Slim Stylee said:


Single issue politics is generally a bad thing. Just govern well? Make people’s lives better would help.

 

1 minute ago, Big Slim Stylee said:


Single issue politics is generally a bad thing. Just govern well? Make people’s lives better would help.

A can of worms has just appeared... :lol:

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Big Slim Stylee
Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

A can of worms has just appeared... :lol:

😀 Worth keeping it going

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Big Slim Stylee
12 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

A can of worms has just appeared... :lol:

 

The can of worms is Salmond. He’s a nasty piece of work, mate. Indicative of that entitled behavior. He’s got away with it at some cost to a lot. I absolutely know that - allegedly...😀

Edited by Big Slim Stylee
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The same old half-truths, bombast, doom-mongering, outright lies and opinions presented as fact in full force in the UK media.

 

Can only mean a Scottish election is close.

 

They think we're all buttoned up the back.

 

Pricks.

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Big Slim Stylee
6 minutes ago, Cade said:

The same old half-truths, bombast, doom-mongering, outright lies and opinions presented as fact in full force in the UK media.

 

Can only mean a Scottish election is close.

 

They think we're all buttoned up the back.

 

Pricks.


Which ones, mate? I’m genuinely ok to hear all. Which are the actual Half truths and outright lies? The doom-mongering and bombast any sane person accepts? The “opinion” is part of a democratic process that “Nationalists” seem to have forgotten about?

Edited by Big Slim Stylee
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manaliveits105

Breaking news - Patrick Harvie joins snp as Nicola Sturgeon agrees to step down as leader of SNP 

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Justin Z
10 hours ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

Single issue politics is generally a bad thing. Just govern well? Make people’s lives better would help.

 

This is absolutely true. It can't be sustained like this. The single issue needs to actually be dealt with—and it would be in a union where those with the power gave a **** about the people affected by that single issue.

 

They don't, so it's looking highly likely it won't... which will just perpetuate the cycle.

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Justin Z
3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Breaking news - Patrick Harvie joins snp as Nicola Sturgeon agrees to step down as leader of SNP 

 

2/10

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manaliveits105

Nicoliar just stated on radio that support for independence has never been higher and support for snp has never been higher - she obviously missed the higher polls months ago 

two more blatant lies right there - they just roll off her tongue 

no wonder Harvie is replacing her

Gary Robertson had her struggling with a few shouts of LOOK and a lot of ehs to his questions

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Justin Z
58 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Nicoliar just stated on radio that support for independence has never been higher and support for snp has never been higher - she obviously missed the higher polls months ago 

two more blatant lies right there - they just roll off her tongue 

no wonder Harvie is replacing her

Gary Robertson had her struggling with a few shouts of LOOK and a lot of ehs to his questions

 

See mate one of the drawbacks of your sustained campaign of spraffing utter pish all over the Shed is that when you try to be funny on April Fool's Day (much like any other time), it just doesn't land. A literacy level equivalent to a juvenile bonobo doesn't aid your cause much either.

 

0.5/10—quit while you're behind :lol:

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manaliveits105

dangerous ground using monkey insults but as a typical bonobo has red lips neat little ears and a distinctive hairdo its quite accurate 

My cause needs no aid - snp are a spent force 😛

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13 hours ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

 

Finland joined in 3, so this is just hypothetical and I would wager its deliberately conservative to create fear and alarm. Its also a whitehall think tank, so its about as biased as you can get.

 

A former member re-joining to the best of my knowledge has never been done before and I suspect having Austria, Germany, France & Irelands support would get us in pretty sharpish. 

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Just now, OTT said:

 

Finland joined in 3, so this is just hypothetical and I would wager its deliberately conservative to create fear and alarm. Its also a whitehall think tank, so its about as biased as you can get.

 

A former member re-joining to the best of my knowledge has never been done before and I suspect having Austria, Germany, France & Irelands support would get us in pretty sharpish. 


Scotland was never a member. 

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Just now, Dazo said:


Scotland was never a member. 

 

We had MEPs. Fair enough it was under UK membership, but that should just go to underscore how unique a situation we're in is. It also doesn't change the support the aforementioned countries have for our joining/rejoining. 

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21 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

We had MEPs. Fair enough it was under UK membership, but that should just go to underscore how unique a situation we're in is. It also doesn't change the support the aforementioned countries have for our joining/rejoining. 


I don’t doubt we will have support I’m just saying Scotland was never a member. 

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BarneyBattles
2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

2/10

 

I see you're in a particularly benevolent mood today😀

 

I appreciate it takes little effort to swat aside the feeble attempts at trolling by 105 and his pitiful little band of brothers but have a cyber beer on me for sticking with it 🍺 

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19 minutes ago, Dazo said:


I don’t doubt we will have support I’m just saying Scotland was never a member. 

 

Oh yeah, no I got your point, I'm just trying to kind of highlight that there is a willingness for us to join/rejoin both internally within Scotland and from the major European nations too. So I would suspect there is unlikely to be awkward barriers holding up our membership if we did vote for Independence. I think concerns around Spain have been mentioned with Catalonia, although I believe a Spanish minister has rubbished those in the last sort of 18 months or so. 

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Justin Z
1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

I see you're in a particularly benevolent mood today😀

 

I appreciate it takes little effort to swat aside the feeble attempts at trolling by 105 and his pitiful little band of brothers but have a cyber beer on me for sticking with it 🍺 

 

beer-cheers.gif

 

Covid willing, happy to get the next round out in the real world. :biggrin2:

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Justin Z
2 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Oh yeah, no I got your point, I'm just trying to kind of highlight that there is a willingness for us to join/rejoin both internally within Scotland and from the major European nations too. So I would suspect there is unlikely to be awkward barriers holding up our membership if we did vote for Independence. I think concerns around Spain have been mentioned with Catalonia, although I believe a Spanish minister has rubbished those in the last sort of 18 months or so. 

 

Not to mention it can be approached in phases. Access to markets, like something towards a Norway style of "in" the EU, would presumably much more quickly than "full" membership, a piece at a time.

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scott herbertson
Just now, Justin Z said:

 

Not to mention it can be approached in phases. Access to markets, like something towards a Norway style of "in" the EU, would presumably much more quickly than "full" membership, a piece at a time.

 

 

My thought exactly. We will just mirror as far as possible european legislation (the bits UK lets us keep control of) and they would be delighted to do the 'easy bits' re tariffs etc on some sort of half way house while the deal was done. The IFS tried to make a comparison with the length of time it took to withdraw for UK but that is a false comparison. We would have two entities with a willingness to make this happen quickly. The basic terms of membership are already known (as opposed to the new arrangements for the UK/EU relationship post Brexit). "Up to 10 years" to rejoin is naked scaremongering 

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