The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Roxy Hearts]

10 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

To say this chap gets it would be somewhat of an understatement. 

Wearing Union Jack glasses isn't particularly insightful. Just the usual anti SNP check list. He forgot the Police, drugs etc and too wee, too poor, too stupid... 

[manaliveits105]

29 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

You have no idea what Scotland has lost by being part of union for last 50 years. Lost potential my arse. It didn't happen, it never occurred, but you choose, with no factual evidence, to believe that Unicorns and Rainbows would have poured over Scotland and everything would have turned out for the better. It could have been a crippling disaster. We will never know. 

Its the same argument being used now. Trust SNP and everything will be fine. We'll I don't trust them as they have shown nothing to deserve my trust. 

They have ****ed up education, they have ****ed up health, they promised to get rid of Council Tax and they haven't and all they ever do is blame Westminster and the 'Toaries'. FFS, they have been in charge long enough but they take no responsibility for anything that is wrong, but want credit for anything that is good. 

Let's see what election results are, and then if we have referendum, let's see what results are. 

You speak as if its a foregone conclusion independence will win, but the majority of Scots, the ones who think with heads, chose to decline before and there is every chance they will do so again. 

They are called silent majority for a reason. They, and I, don't like being called traitors, Housejocks, Yooninists or a multitude of different names, just because we believe something different than the noisy majority who scream and shout about Freedom. We will take our time, cast our votes, and when result is known, we will accept it, whatever way it falls. Something the Nationalists are incapable of doing. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

27 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Wearing Union Jack glasses isn't particularly insightful. Just the usual anti SNP check list. He forgot the Police, drugs etc and too wee, too poor, too stupid... 

Scots aren't too wee, we're not stupid and we're not, in a global sense, poor. 

I have had no dealings with police in my lifetime and cannot comment on what they do. I know a few policemen and policewomen and they are, by and large, no different from me. 

Don't do drugs, never have and never will. You brought it up, not me. 

Just because I don't trust Scottish government, doesn't mean I wear Unionist glasses. Born in Scotland, live in Scotland and am Scottish through and through. Do I think Westminster is perfect, **** no. Do I like Boris, Hancock, Hove and others, **** no. Do I blame them for all our troubles, **** no. You want to break free from Westminster cause they boss us about and then tie us into EU so France and Germany will boss us about. 

Overall, I don't believe that the financial independence argument has been made successfully, and I don't want to risk my kids futures on the hope that things may improve, when imo, they are pretty much okay just now. 

There are thousands of us who think the same. What about producing plans that will convince me I'm wrong instead of just dismissing critical comments as 'usual anti SNP check list' or is that too much to expect. 

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

You have no idea what Scotland has lost by being part of union for last 50 years.

 

I do, in fact. And so would you, if you cared to look.

 

It's fine that you don't, but choosing instead to rant at a non-citizen, on a football forum, sounds like a personal problem and probably isn't the best course of action.

 

Anyway, since we can't look into the past to determine what's been lost, and we can't look into the future to see what can be gained, I guess we're just stuck here.

 

Not nearly good enough for a great many. But you do you, mate, and keep telling yourself you're the reasonable one.

[Roxy Hearts]

7 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Scots aren't too wee, we're not stupid and we're not, in a global sense, poor. 

I have had no dealings with police in my lifetime and cannot comment on what they do. I know a few policemen and policewomen and they are, by and large, no different from me. 

Don't do drugs, never have and never will. You brought it up, not me. 

Just because I don't trust Scottish government, doesn't mean I wear Unionist glasses. Born in Scotland, live in Scotland and am Scottish through and through. Do I think Westminster is perfect, **** no. Do I like Boris, Hancock, Hove and others, **** no. Do I blame them for all our troubles, **** no. You want to break free from Westminster cause they boss us about and then tie us into EU so France and Germany will boss us about. 

Overall, I don't believe that the financial independence argument has been made successfully, and I don't want to risk my kids futures on the hope that things may improve, when imo, they are pretty much okay just now. 

There are thousands of us who think the same. What about producing plans that will convince me I'm wrong instead of just dismissing critical comments as 'usual anti SNP check list' or is that too much to expect. 

Good, valid points. I just wish to have governments we vote for and wish my kids and grandkids to be brought up in a fairer society. 

[Janbo1874]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

You have no idea what Scotland has lost by being part of union for last 50 years. Lost potential my arse. It didn't happen, it never occurred, but you choose, with no factual evidence, to believe that Unicorns and Rainbows would have poured over Scotland and everything would have turned out for the better. It could have been a crippling disaster. We will never know. 

Its the same argument being used now. Trust SNP and everything will be fine. We'll I don't trust them as they have shown nothing to deserve my trust. 

They have ****ed up education, they have ****ed up health, they promised to get rid of Council Tax and they haven't and all they ever do is blame Westminster and the 'Toaries'. FFS, they have been in charge long enough but they take no responsibility for anything that is wrong, but want credit for anything that is good. 

Let's see what election results are, and then if we have referendum, let's see what results are. 

You speak as if its a foregone conclusion independence will win, but the majority of Scots, the ones who think with heads, chose to decline before and there is every chance they will do so again. 

They are called silent majority for a reason. They, and I, don't like being called traitors, Housejocks, Yooninists or a multitude of different names, just because we believe something different than the noisy majority who scream and shout about Freedom. We will take our time, cast our votes, and when result is known, we will accept it, whatever way it falls. Something the Nationalists are incapable of doing. 

👏

[Malinga the Swinga]

16 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Good, valid points. I just wish to have governments we vote for and wish my kids and grandkids to be brought up in a fairer society. 

Well, you never know what will happen in future, but living in a fair society sounds good to me. I'll still be kicking around, supporting Hearts, first and foremost, and then Scotland after that. 

We can after all, agree to disagree. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

24 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I do, in fact. And so would you, if you cared to look.

 

It's fine that you don't, but choosing instead to rant at a non-citizen, on a football forum, sounds like a personal problem and probably isn't the best course of action.

 

Anyway, since we can't look into the past to determine what's been lost, and we can't look into the future to see what can be gained, I guess we're just stuck here.

 

Not nearly good enough for a great many. But you do you, mate, and keep telling yourself you're the reasonable one.

I'm able to discuss with 99% of people on here but it's fair to say that one of the things I can't abide is dealing with those who look down their noses at me and speak to me like I'm ignorant and thick. 

As such, I will stop answering or responding to your posts

 

Won't block you though as wouldn't want to give you the satisfaction. 

[Roxy Hearts]

8 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well, you never know what will happen in future, but living in a fair society sounds good to me. I'll still be kicking around, supporting Hearts, first and foremost, and then Scotland after that. 

We can after all, agree to disagree. 

👍

[Governor Tarkin]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I'm able to discuss with 99% of people on here but it's fair to say that one of the things I can't abide is dealing with those who look down their noses at me and speak to me like I'm ignorant and thick. 

As such, I will stop answering or responding to your posts

 

Won't block you though as wouldn't want to give you the satisfaction. 

 

Good post.

[Justin Z]

15 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I'm able to discuss with 99% of people on here but it's fair to say that one of the things I can't abide is dealing with those who look down their noses at me and speak to me like I'm ignorant and thick. 

As such, I will stop answering or responding to your posts

 

Won't block you though as wouldn't want to give you the satisfaction. 

 

Strange thing to accuse someone of when you're using language like "Unicorns and Rainbows", "whataboutery", "excuses", and "my arse". You are quite the precious wee lamb getting upset at anything I've calmly pointed out, especially with a context like that. The truth hurts.

 

That said, it will be a pleasure not to read anything more from you—thanks for the satisfaction indeed.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Justin Z

[Justin Z]

Huh. Imagine that.

 

Of course, Scotland wouldn't have even needed to borrow if it had been in control of its oil half a century ago. Norway didn't. Wales doesn't have nearly the resources, so down there it's rainbows, unicorns and leeks, apparently.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Justin Z

[Guest]

I think this upcoming election could be great for Scotland.

 

Obvs the SNP will win but they are promising to fix all the stuff they've made an arse of for the last 14 years so it should all be all ok, right? 

 

I mean 18 years, that's like at least 3 generations. 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

They’re shit and they know they are 

[Roxy Hearts]

5 minutes ago, Candy said:

I think this upcoming election could be great for Scotland.

 

Obvs the SNP will win but they are promising to fix all the stuff they've made an arse of for the last 14 years so it should all be all ok, right? 

 

I mean 18 years, that's like at least 3 generations. 

 

 

Must be doing something right as keep getting voted in. The other choices are brutal! Need the SNP to stop Westminster running roughshod over Scotland. 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Must be doing something right as keep getting voted in. The other choices are brutal! Need the SNP to stop Westminster running roughshod over Scotland. 

Of course, the blame Westminster approach.

 

As its a Scottish election coming up, why not consider the areas under the control of the Scottish govt?

Edited April 14, 2021 by Candy

[Roxy Hearts]

53 minutes ago, Candy said:

Of course, the blame Westminster approach.

 

As its a Scottish election coming up, why not consider the areas under the control of the Scottish govt?

Vote unionist parties get Westminster. What do you think I meant? The SNP are Scottish, thankfully and I trust them to care more for its citizens than Labour, Tories or Lib Dems. Their orders come from that pit in London.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Vote unionist parties get Westminster. What do you think I meant? The SNP are Scottish, thankfully and I trust them to care more for its citizens than Labour, Tories or Lib Dems. Their orders come from that pit in London.

So if the SNP get their way are u voting for an EU party in the Scottish election?

[pablo]

3 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I'm able to discuss with 99% of people on here but it's fair to say that one of the things I can't abide is dealing with those who look down their noses at me and speak to me like I'm ignorant and thick. 

As such, I will stop answering or responding to your posts

 

Won't block you though as wouldn't want to give you the satisfaction. 

 

Good post and your others. Well said.

[manaliveits105]

4 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Good post and your others. Well said.

Hear hear 🧐

[Roxy Hearts]

7 hours ago, Candy said:

So if the SNP get their way are u voting for an EU party in the Scottish election?

Elaborate.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Elaborate.

They want to join the EU

[Konrad von Carstein]

5 minutes ago, Candy said:

They want to join the EU

Thats not elaborating... That's being silly and obtuse.

 

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Thats not elaborating... That's being silly and obtuse.

 

 

Really? 

 

The SNP want Scotland to join the EU.  Is that not correct?

[Konrad von Carstein]

Just now, Candy said:

Really? 

 

The SNP want Scotland to join the EU.  Is that not correct?

Yes, yes and yes.

 

However what "EU" parties will stand in a Scottish GE?

 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Yes, yes and yes.

 

However what "EU" parties will stand in a Scottish GE?

 

 

Behave.  You know what was meant.  

 

The previous poster said the other parties take orders from London.  The SNP would have us in the EU and taking orders from Brussels

 

The SNP are unionists, just a different type. 

[XB52]

12 minutes ago, Candy said:

Behave.  You know what was meant.  

 

The previous poster said the other parties take orders from London.  The SNP would have us in the EU and taking orders from Brussels

 

The SNP are unionists, just a different type. 

The SNP will not be taking us into the EU without the people of Scotland voting for it. I would actually prefer the deal that Norway has but we'll get what we vote for. If it's rejoining the EU then fine

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, XB52 said:

The SNP will not be taking us into the EU without the people of Scotland voting for it. I would actually prefer the deal that Norway has but we'll get what we vote for. If it's rejoining the EU then fine

Be that as it may, the SNP are very much of the opinion that joining the EU is the way forward for an "independent" Scotland  

 

In fact they are using  Brexit as one of their main arguments to re-run the Independence referendum  citing it as a material change. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

22 minutes ago, Candy said:

Behave.  You know what was meant.  

 

The previous poster said the other parties take orders from London.  The SNP would have us in the EU and taking orders from Brussels

 

The SNP are unionists, just a different type. 

Taking orders from Brussels? Thats a soundbite from Farage and his bunch of dimwits,

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, Candy said:

Be that as it may, the SNP are very much of the opinion that joining the EU is the way forward for an "independent" Scotland  

 

In fact they are using  Brexit as one of their main arguments to re-run the Independence referendum  citing it as a material change. 

Because it is a material change.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Taking orders from Brussels? Thats a soundbite from Farage and his bunch of dimwits,

Nope, it was a reworking of the soundbite from a previous poster about the Scottish parties taking orders from Westminster (it's on the previous page if you want to check)

 

7 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Because it is a material change.

Perhaps, but that wasn't the point I was making.  I was merely pointing out that that's what the SNP were using to help their argument to join the EU. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

The SNP will not be taking us into the EU without the people of Scotland voting for it. I would actually prefer the deal that Norway has but we'll get what we vote for. If it's rejoining the EU then fine

The Norway deal would be the one I would prefer but can't see EU allowing that to happen. Think we will be forced into the full Euro take up along with whatever else France/Germany decide. We won't get same deal we has as part of UK. 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, Candy said:

They want to join the EU

You're going to have to explain. Our devolved governance is best served by the SNP not London based parties. The EU is a different matter.

 

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Candy said:

Be that as it may, the SNP are very much of the opinion that joining the EU is the way forward for an "independent" Scotland  

 

In fact they are using  Brexit as one of their main arguments to re-run the Independence referendum  citing it as a material change. 

And?? The vast majority of voters in Scotland wanted to remain so the snp are supporting the majority view. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

And?? The vast majority of voters in Scotland wanted to remain so the snp are supporting the majority view. 

I'm not denying that.   

[pablo]

3 minutes ago, XB52 said:

And?? The vast majority of voters in Scotland wanted to remain so the snp are supporting the majority view. 

 

True. But then there needs to a frank conversation about all that entails. A hard border with our largest customer, adopting the Euro and what the plan will be for meeting the fiscal criteria for entry into the EU. That's only fair if people will are going to be asked if the risk and reward is worth swapping one union for another. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

You're going to have to explain. Our devolved governance is best served by the SNP not London based parties. The EU is a different matter.

 

Your previous post said vote SNP to stop "Westminster running roughshod over Scotland".  Its a Scottish election and should be decided on devolved matters within the remit of the Holyrood, not Westminster.

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, Candy said:

Your previous post said vote SNP to stop "Westminster running roughshod over Scotland".  Its a Scottish election and should be decided on devolved matters within the remit of the Holyrood, not Westminster.

 

 

I know that! The unionist parties will take orders from Lobdon. Doesn't matter if reserved or devolved for them. They will do as they are told. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

If Indy was achieved there would then need to be another ref about re joining the EU . It should never just be an added on bit of a SNP Manifesto pledge.  It needs proper discussion and debate .  I voted remain and would do so again.  I used to be an SNP fanboy but in the last year ive gradually changed my mind.  However i would probably still vote yes in a new Indy vote due to a new item a few weeks ago. I think it was mentioned that the UK govt are renewing various nuclear arsenal at enormous cost.  I dont want to have a Govt which prioritizes  weapons which we shouldn't use and dont need over the economy. housing. poverty, unemployment etc NO way   . Its morally reprehensible. 

[Ibrahim Tall]

1 hour ago, Candy said:

Nope, it was a reworking of the soundbite from a previous poster about the Scottish parties taking orders from Westminster (it's on the previous page if you want to check)

 

Perhaps, but that wasn't the point I was making.  I was merely pointing out that that's what the SNP were using to help their argument to join the EU. 

It’s a bit of a shit “re-working” then tbh. The ‘Scottish’ Labour/Conservative/Lib Dem parties literally are subservient to their London ‘main’ parties, there’s no dispute or accusation there. Fundamentally that’s how their set up.

 

The SNP(or whatever party ran a post independent Scotland) wouldn’t be ‘taking orders from Brussels’ in the same way that the UK didn’t - or smaller countries like Slovenia, Lithuania, Croatia, Hungary etc don’t before anyone says it’s related to size.

[manaliveits105]

From @BallotBoxScot

New Independence poll, Panelbase 9 - 12 Apr (changes vs 30 Mar - 1 Apr ) :

Yes ~ 48% (nc)

No ~ 46% (-1)

Don't Know ~ 6% (+1)

 

Excluding DKs:

Yes ~ 51% (+1)

No ~ 49% (-1)

 

No way Jimmy Krankie will go anywhere near an indyref2 anytime soon 

[3fingersreid]

Previously I moaned about the lack of help from the Scot govt after a £20 million pound shortfall in the allocation  for taxi and phc trade from Westminster , today we were told that another £1,000 payment is to be paid ,which helps .
I’m now being told that the union is fighting for a £10,000 small business payment for the taxi and phc trade like other small businesses got , not really expecting that to happen . 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

It’s a bit of a shit “re-working” then tbh. The ‘Scottish’ Labour/Conservative/Lib Dem parties literally are subservient to their London ‘main’ parties, there’s no dispute or accusation there. Fundamentally that’s how their set up.

 

The SNP(or whatever party ran a post independent Scotland) wouldn’t be ‘taking orders from Brussels’ in the same way that the UK didn’t - or smaller countries like Slovenia, Lithuania, Croatia, Hungary etc don’t before anyone says it’s related to size.

The point was that the poster said "Westminster" would ride roughshod over Scotland 

 

I should of course have made allowances for the fact that many don't differentiate and see it all as the same thing.  All part of the culture of directing blame southwards.  

 

It's a Scottish election coming up and has nothing to do with Westminster or London (or the EU for that matter!)  I'd like to see it decided on devolved matters. 

 

As Nicola herself said "judge me on education".  Many people of course won't, but that is their democratic right.

[pablo]

20 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

From @BallotBoxScot

New Independence poll, Panelbase 9 - 12 Apr (changes vs 30 Mar - 1 Apr ) :

Yes ~ 48% (nc)

No ~ 46% (-1)

Don't Know ~ 6% (+1)

 

Excluding DKs:

Yes ~ 51% (+1)

No ~ 49% (-1)

 

No way Jimmy Krankie will go anywhere near an indyref2 anytime soon 

 

I think everyone knows that there's not going to be another referendum anytime soon. Which makes it all so frustrating for everyone other than the hard-core of either side.

[XB52]

54 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

True. But then there needs to a frank conversation about all that entails. A hard border with our largest customer, adopting the Euro and what the plan will be for meeting the fiscal criteria for entry into the EU. That's only fair if people will are going to be asked if the risk and reward is worth swapping one union for another. 

No arguments there apart from us adopting the Euro which I can't see ever happening, even though I'm not dead against it

[Cade]

The only criteria for joining the EU when it comes to currency is a pledge to, at some point in the future, move to the Euro.

There are no time limits placed upon this.

Bulgaria still uses the Lev

Croatia still uses the Kuna

Czech Republic still uses the Koruna

Denmark still uses the Krone

Hungary still uses the Forint

Poland still uses the Zloty

Romania still uses the Leu

Sweden still uses the Krona

 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, Candy said:

The point was that the poster said "Westminster" would ride roughshod over Scotland 

 

I should of course have made allowances for the fact that many don't differentiate and see it all as the same thing.  All part of the culture of directing blame southwards.  

 

It's a Scottish election coming up and has nothing to do with Westminster or London (or the EU for that matter!)  I'd like to see it decided on devolved matters. 

 

As Nicola herself said "judge me on education".  Many people of course won't, but that is their democratic right.

The unionist parties in Scotland get told by the main parties in Westminster what to do. SNP want to keep Scottish water in public hands, the 3 subservient Westminster parties would be told to sell it. That's one of what would be many examples. Play games if you want but either way Westminster would be very heavily involved in a devolved Scotland if we ever had the stupidity to vote for the inept Labour, Tories or Libs.

 

I've judged the SNP on education. My grandkids and youngest daughter are having and had a great education under them. My daughter is also training to be a teacher so I think she's judged them well too!

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

The unionist parties in Scotland get told by the main parties in Westminster what to do. SNP want to keep Scottish water in public hands, the 3 subservient Westminster parties would be told to sell it. That's one of what would be many examples. Play games if you want but either way Westminster would be very heavily involved in a devolved Scotland if we ever had the stupidity to vote for the inept Labour, Tories or Libs.

 

I've judged the SNP on education. My grandkids and youngest daughter are having and had a great education under them. My daughter is also training to be a teacher so I think she's judged them well too!

Your 1st paragraph is your opinion, not fact.  It's a common one though; the poor - downtrodden by the English - Scottish attitude that many independence supporters display.

 

Your 2nd paragraph - excellent.  I'm genuinely pleased to hear it 👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

From @BallotBoxScot

New Independence poll, Panelbase 9 - 12 Apr (changes vs 30 Mar - 1 Apr ) :

Yes ~ 48% (nc)

No ~ 46% (-1)

Don't Know ~ 6% (+1)

 

Excluding DKs:

Yes ~ 51% (+1)

No ~ 49% (-1)

 

No way Jimmy Krankie will go anywhere near an indyref2 anytime soon 

As I predicted there won’t be one until at the earliest 2023 ! Or when covid is over . It’ll be at late as possible due to the obvious reason. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

As I predicted there won’t be one until at the earliest 2023 ! Or when covid is over . It’ll be at late as possible due to the obvious reason. 

I'd say late 2022-2023 sounds about right but if it were up to me the independence parties would be putting UDI in their manifestos, winning the election and declaring independence.

But that's just me.