The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

Juzzie Z, anything the SNP claim should be run through a desalination plant TWICE before consumption. A shower of salty HOODWINKERS. 

 

That's pretty irrelevant to the IFS. Still—this may be hard for you to accept, but people who in fact do that can and will come to different conclusions than you.

 

Also worth noting that shouting outlandish and untrue things on the internet and namecalling, as you do, is not vetting. It's simply confirmation bias in action.

[JackLadd]

11 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

That's pretty irrelevant to the IFS. Still—this may be hard for you to accept, but people who in fact do that can and will come to different conclusions than you.

 

Also worth noting that shouting outlandish and untrue things on the internet and namecalling, as you do, is not vetting. It's simply confirmation bias in action.

 

It is the SNP who claim facts by tubthumping proclamation and their base who question the patriotism of any who differ, not me. Your conclusions are driven by ideology/cultism and not facts. Admit the truth, an iScotland would suffer a painful divorce in the form of hardship, chaos and upheaval for decades. You know it and so does anybody with a grasp on reality. Unless 2 plus 2 equals 5 and war means peace the SNP are telling lies. 

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

Your conclusions are driven by ideology/cultism and not facts.

 

This may be the dumbest statement you've managed to make on the thread, which is quite the accomplishment given what's already here.

 

I'm not from Scotland, meaning I've been able to form my opinion from a very neutral starting point. As a bonus, I was not pro-independence before I came here; quite the reverse. I examined the evidence over a period of years, and my position changed based on that evidence.

 

You can go on to make all the outlandish, fact- and evidence-free claims you want as you did in your post, but none of that changes the simple truth that you are the ideologue here. Soz m8.

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

It is the SNP who claim facts by tubthumping proclamation and their base who question the patriotism of any who differ, not me. Your conclusions are driven by ideology/cultism and not facts. Admit the truth, an iScotland would suffer a painful divorce in the form of hardship, chaos and upheaval for decades. You know it and so does anybody with a grasp on reality. Unless 2 plus 2 equals 5 and war means peace the SNP are telling lies. 

Unionism.

Brainwashed by the BBC, Channel 4, Daily Mail and Sky for Decades.

You know you cant explain to folk who are brainwashed that they are...brainwashed.

Wake up. None of your post above is NOT regurgitated drivel.

[jambos are go!]

30 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Unionism.

Brainwashed by the BBC, Channel 4, Daily Mail and Sky for Decades.

You know you cant explain to folk who are brainwashed that they are...brainwashed.

Wake up. None of your post above is NOT regurgitated drivel.

So in saying folk are brainwashed  you might not realize that it is you that are in fact brainwashed?

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

So in saying folk are brainwashed  you might not realize that it is you that are in fact brainwashed?

 

That's why I tend to think avoiding that sort of language altogether is the best policy.

 

It is enough that the media outlets Pans mentioned have an anti-independence bias proven beyond any reasonable doubt, continually demonstrated on a daily basis. Given that reality, educating ourselves outside their confines becomes really important for getting a more accurate picture of things.

[XB52]

I don't think JackLadd is brainwashed, he's just a sad troll. Nobody could be that stupid in real life

[manaliveits105]

50 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

It is the SNP who claim facts by tubthumping proclamation and their base who question the patriotism of any who differ, not me. Your conclusions are driven by ideology/cultism and not facts. Admit the truth, an iScotland would suffer a painful divorce in the form of hardship, chaos and upheaval for decades. You know it and so does anybody with a grasp on reality. Unless 2 plus 2 equals 5 and war means peace the SNP are telling lies. 

Stop posting articles with facts Jack it just confuses them nothing anyone outside jimmy krankie and the cult can possibly be true or logical = freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedumb !!

 

[coconut doug]

15 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Unionism.

Brainwashed by the BBC, Channel 4, Daily Mail and Sky for Decades.

You know you cant explain to folk who are brainwashed that they are...brainwashed.

Wake up. None of your post above is NOT regurgitated drivel.

 

The BBC, Sky Daily Mail etc have little credibilty for most of us. They don't really create much analysis themselves now such is their lack of perspective. 

   Now we have all these "Think Tanks" to tell us how crap we are like those quoted above. They are full of mega- rich, vested interests usually supported by UK government funding. The two most recently quoted have Tory donors, a blood diamonds criminal and a procuremnent manager from the UK's biggest arms dealer. 

They are able to provide a level of insight that tells us we might have to join the Euro and there could be difficulties trading with non EU countries if we join the EU. We should be indebted to them for pointing out our own stupidity in trying to run things for ourselves. You would think that by now we would realise that these people only have our best interests at heart. 

[manaliveits105]

The institute of fiscal studies find that the Scottish Government used some emergency temporary covid funding to fund  permanent policies - tsk tsk - is that how many small Scottish businesses keep asking where the funding is ?

deary me .

Wee Katie Forbes another not fit for purpose

Edited March 31 by manaliveits105

[Mikey1874]

Elections are definitely a good thing. Seems things Governments never considered or were too expensive suddenly get given.

 

Laptops for every school pupil, 18 to 20 year olds no longer paying council tax, more housing. Lots of promises by other parties too. And that's before the manifestos are published. 

 

All presumably not possible previously. 

[JackLadd]

9 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Stop posting articles with facts Jack it just confuses them nothing anyone outside jimmy krankie and the cult can possibly be true or logical = freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedumb !!

 

 

True man, the snp and their face painting flag shaggers have a monopoly on truth. We are quislings for daring to refer to the facts and data that pull the rug from their fantasies. 2 plus 2 does not equal 5. When it does I will vote SNP.      

[Justin Z]

15 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

True man, the snp and their face painting flag shaggers have a monopoly on truth. We are quislings for daring to refer to the facts and data that pull the rug from their fantasies. 2 plus 2 does not equal 5. When it does I will vote SNP.      

 

Then I've got some great news for you. These "facts" 105 referred to them in the articles you post... they don't even support your argument.

From the BBC piece:

 

The Scottish government now has over £1.30 per person to spend on public services for every £1 of comparable spending per person in England, according to the findings.

 

So in essence, in the face of probably the most brutal austerity campaign of the last 100 years, the Scottish government have managed to keep public services spending a fraction above the pathetic rate in England.

 

And against the backdrop of what? £30+ billion disappeared to mates on Track-and-Trace, billions more siphoned off to donors, trillions in tax cuts and offshoring for the already rich. Quite possibly worse corruption to benefit the wealthy than even the United States, and that takes some doing.

 

Now contrast that to what Scotland could've had at its disposal to deal with Covid instead, if it had not been in the Union for the past half century: a trillion dollar oil fund like Norway, who used a fraction of that to not just maintain but increase their already far higher public services spending during an emergency like Covid. Or an outcome like New Zealand's, an independent Commonwealth island nation: 26 deaths in total. Jacinda Ardern, another highly accomplished woman world leader, called every family personally to apologise.

 

Amidst the incomplete arguments about what a benefit being in the Union has been for Covid (or anything else), is the reality of what opportunity Scotland has already lost by being chained to it. What's next? Well for many, many people, they don't want to risk it anymore. Go on ignoring this reality and instead keep squealing at rational supporters of independence that they think you are a quisling—please—and you will get pumped rotten at the ballot box when the time comes.

 

Edited March 31 by Justin Z

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Then I've got some great news for you. These "facts" 105 referred to them in the articles you post... they don't even support your argument.

From the BBC piece:

 

The Scottish government now has over £1.30 per person to spend on public services for every £1 of comparable spending per person in England, according to the findings.

 

So in essence, in the face of probably the most brutal austerity campaign of the last 100 years, the Scottish government have managed to keep public services spending a fraction above the pathetic rate in England.

 

And against the backdrop of what? £30+ billion disappeared to mates on Track-and-Trace, billions more siphoned off to donors, trillions in tax cuts and offshoring for the already rich. Quite possibly worse corruption to benefit the wealthy than even the United States, and that takes some doing.

 

Now contrast that to what Scotland could've had at its disposal to deal with Covid instead, if it had not been in the Union for the past half century: a trillion dollar oil fund like Norway, who used a fraction of that to not just maintain but increase their already far higher public services spending during an emergency like Covid. Or an outcome like New Zealand's, an independent Commonwealth island nation: 26 deaths in total. Jacinda Ardern, another highly accomplished woman world leader, called every family personally to apologise.

 

Amidst the incomplete arguments about what a benefit being in the Union has been for Covid (or anything else), is the reality of what opportunity Scotland has already lost by being chained to it. What's next? Well for many, many people, they don't want to risk it anymore. Go on ignoring this reality and instead keep squealing at rational supporters of independence that they you are a quisling—please—and you will get pumped rotten at the ballot box when the time comes.

 

 

Impenetrable serpentine twaddle. You need to check back into the Royal Edinburgh for another 'stay' my man. Care in the community is clearly not addressing your needs.

[Justin Z]

12 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Impenetrable serpentine twaddle. You need to check back into the Royal Edinburgh for another 'stay' my man. Care in the community is clearly not addressing your needs.

 

To quote one of my favourite films, Fight Club:

 

 

In other words, you've got nothing, as per. Cheers.

[Enzo Chiefo]

15 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Then I've got some great news for you. These "facts" 105 referred to them in the articles you post... they don't even support your argument.

From the BBC piece:

 

The Scottish government now has over £1.30 per person to spend on public services for every £1 of comparable spending per person in England, according to the findings.

 

So in essence, in the face of probably the most brutal austerity campaign of the last 100 years, the Scottish government have managed to keep public services spending a fraction above the pathetic rate in England.

 

And against the backdrop of what? £30+ billion disappeared to mates on Track-and-Trace, billions more siphoned off to donors, trillions in tax cuts and offshoring for the already rich. Quite possibly worse corruption to benefit the wealthy than even the United States, and that takes some doing.

 

Now contrast that to what Scotland could've had at its disposal to deal with Covid instead, if it had not been in the Union for the past half century: a trillion dollar oil fund like Norway, who used a fraction of that to not just maintain but increase their already far higher public services spending during an emergency like Covid. Or an outcome like New Zealand's, an independent Commonwealth island nation: 26 deaths in total. Jacinda Ardern, another highly accomplished woman world leader, called every family personally to apologise.

 

Amidst the incomplete arguments about what a benefit being in the Union has been for Covid (or anything else), is the reality of what opportunity Scotland has already lost by being chained to it. What's next? Well for many, many people, they don't want to risk it anymore. Go on ignoring this reality and instead keep squealing at rational supporters of independence that they think you are a quisling—please—and you will get pumped rotten at the ballot box when the time comes.

 

Ffs, do you actually believe any of this stuff? It's scary to think the views that have ended up in people's heads. And they can vote, which scares the fecking daylights out of me🤣. Where do you think the extra funding comes from? When Sturgeon talks about spending x amount more per head on the NHS, she's arguing FOR the union. The Barnett formula gives us £2k per head more in public spending than the rUK gets. You didn't think Scotland "magics" that money up itself did you?

[Justin Z]

16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ffs, do you actually believe any of this stuff? It's scary to think the views that have ended up in people's heads. And they can vote, which scares the fecking daylights out of me🤣. Where do you think the extra funding comes from? When Sturgeon talks about spending x amount more per head on the NHS, she's arguing FOR the union. The Barnett formula gives us £2k per head more in public spending than the rUK gets. You didn't think Scotland "magics" that money up itself did you?

 

Unless countries like the Nordic ones, New Zealand, most of western Europe—basically anywhere with higher public services spending than England—are doing magic, then no. You knew that, of course.

 

And no, no she's not, since Scotland only receives a fraction of its own money back to spend under the Barnett formula. Of course, no one's ever been allowed by Westminster to see the figures, wonder why that is.

 

That the Scottish government has able to pull off what it has in spite of the limitations imposed on it by having a chunk of its own budget whiled away by an external force every year, is really quite an accomplishment, and testament to how much better the politics and governance are here.

 

Let me know if you'd like to actually engage with the information in the previous post instead of laughing off things that kick on your cognitive dissonance. You admit that it's scary to you that people might argue things like this, and it's because of beliefs you already hold, that you've never seriously challenged. You've always taken them for granted. Maybe it's time to exercise that ol' grey matter, eh?

 

But then, that post wasn't for the benefit of you or any other arch-unionist type who already know everything. It's for folks who are after a sober assessment of the situation.

 

Edited March 31 by Justin Z

[Enzo Chiefo]

56 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Unless countries like the Nordic ones, New Zealand, most of western Europe—basically anywhere with higher public services spending than England—are doing magic, then no. You knew that, of course.

 

And no, no she's not, since Scotland only receives a fraction of its own money back to spend under the Barnett formula. Of course, no one's ever been allowed by Westminster to see the figures, wonder why that is.

 

That the Scottish government has able to pull off what it has in spite of the limitations imposed on it by having a chunk of its own budget whiled away by an external force every year, is really quite an accomplishment, and testament to how much better the politics and governance are here.

 

Let me know if you'd like to actually engage with the information in the previous post instead of laughing off things that kick on your cognitive dissonance. You admit that it's scary to you that people might argue things like this, and it's because of beliefs you already hold, that you've never seriously challenged. You've always taken them for granted. Maybe it's time to exercise that ol' grey matter, eh?

 

But then, that post wasn't for the benefit of you or any other arch-unionist type who already know everything. It's for folks who are after a sober assessment of the situation.

 

You are far too deluded to debate with. You have no understanding of economics, politics or real life. "External forces"?🤣

[manaliveits105]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You are far too deluded to debate with. You have no understanding of economics, politics or real life. "External forces"?🤣

To be fair its never held the Scottish cabinet back

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

So in saying folk are brainwashed  you might not realize that it is you that are in fact brainwashed?

[Pans Jambo]

So what I'm getting after 195 pages of this shite is that Scotland should stay in the union because it cannot go it alone.

 

JUST CANNAE DAE IT.

 

Any positive cases for staying part of the union????? Anyone????? Anything?????

[Justin Z]

14 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You are far too deluded to debate with. You have no understanding of economics, politics or real life. "External forces"?🤣

 

And strike two!

 

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

In other words, you've got nothing, as per. Cheers.

 

Not a bad day's work already, tbf.

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

To be fair its never held the Scottish cabinet back

🤣. Wedded to an ideology that involves dodging or changing the facts, to arrive at the desired outcome. No matter the problem or the question, Independence always has to be the answer. 

We get comparisons with Ireland or Norway but no mention of there not being an NHS and paying to see a GP in Ireland or the sky high taxes in Norway. How people in power get away with attempting to pull the wool over the eyes of the population is beyond belief. Thankfully,  the majority can see through the lies and obfuscation. 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

So what I'm getting after 195 pages of this shite is that Scotland should stay in the union because it cannot go it alone.

 

JUST CANNAE DAE IT.

 

Any positive cases for staying part of the union????? Anyone????? Anything?????

Apart from the economic, security, cultural, trade, political, social reasons, no, can't think of any off hand.

Ask Nicola Sturgeon why, even now, she wants to join the discredited, corrupt, EU??  Just one credible reason would be good.

[Pans Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

🤣. Wedded to an ideology that involves dodging or changing the facts, to arrive at the desired outcome. No matter the problem or the question, Independence always has to be the answer. 

We get comparisons with Ireland or Norway but no mention of there not being an NHS and paying to see a GP in Ireland or the sky high taxes in Norway. How people in power get away with attempting to pull the wool over the eyes of the population is beyond belief. Thankfully,  the majority can see through the lies and obfuscation. 

 

Perfect.

Focus on what YOU think are the negatives. What else is negative in Ireland or Norway or is that it? Lots of foodbanks perhaps? High child mortality? Huge unemployment? Brutal public transport? Bad pensions? What else???????

 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Apart from the economic, security, cultural, trade, political, social reasons, no, can't think of any off hand.

Ask Nicola Sturgeon why, even now, she wants to join the discredited, corrupt, EU??  Just one credible reason would be good.

Economic? explain the positive case for that?

Cultural? Explain the positive case for that?

Trade? Not sure what you mean. Do independent countries not trade with each other? Ruk doesnt sell anything at all to Scotland then?

Political? WTF?

Social reasons? Are they switching off the mobile signals again?

[manaliveits105]

Although Enzo and many other people have already its not up to the good Scotish people who are happy to remain in the union at the moment after indyref1 - brexit and covid and let things settle - its up to separatists to convince them otherwise and apart from Tories bad the snp are firing blanks - 7 years on they still cant answer any of the important questions that they couldnt answer in 2014 .Their record on many aspects of government has been dreadful not to mention the lies smoke and mirrors - they can  the for the forseeable - RAM IT 

[Dazo]

Must be amazing to be a SNP politician. Blame Westminster for everything with zero accountability given or asked for by their supporters. Wtf these people will do if they ever get independence, who will they blame ? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

10 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Perfect.

Focus on what YOU think are the negatives. What else is negative in Ireland or Norway or is that it? Lots of foodbanks perhaps? High child mortality? Huge unemployment? Brutal public transport? Bad pensions? What else???????

 

All cured by Independence.  Great news. Where do I sign up?

It's incumbent on those proposing constitutional change to lay out the facts, warts and all that make them think we would be better off. They won't though, because, it is all about an ideology that only involves woolly ideas like creating a "fairer society", whatever that is. Fairer to whom? Who decides? How do you achieve it? And "decisions made by the people of Scotland ". By the same people who are making them now? It's good decision making we need. You can argue about better decisions being made at a local level. Fair enough. Why then do Scot Gov centralise the powers in Edinburgh instead of devolving them to local level?? We have a stack load of powers already. Why move them from Westminster to Edinburgh? Then give them away to Brussels? 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Must be amazing to be a SNP politician. Blame Westminster for everything with zero accountability given or asked for by their supporters. Wtf these people will do if they ever get independence, who will they blame ? 

I was playing Boris Johnson Bingo last night. Had a full house after Sturgeon's first couple of answers, aided and abetted by that shouty, Green nutter. Like Mrs Thatcher before him, if they hadn't existed, they would have to have invented them. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

27 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Although Enzo and many other people have already its not up to the good Scotish people who are happy to remain in the union at the moment after indyref1 - brexit and covid and let things settle - its up to separatists to convince them otherwise and apart from Tories bad the snp are firing blanks - 7 years on they still cant answer any of the important questions that they couldnt answer in 2014 .Their record on many aspects of government has been dreadful not to mention the lies smoke and mirrors - they can  the for the forseeable - RAM IT 

Well said M105. More or less what the audience were telling Sturgeon last night.  No wonder she looked punch drunk.

[Pans Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

All cured by Independence.  Great news. Where do I sign up?

It's incumbent on those proposing constitutional change to lay out the facts, warts and all that make them think we would be better off. They won't though, because, it is all about an ideology that only involves woolly ideas like creating a "fairer society", whatever that is. Fairer to whom? Who decides? How do you achieve it? And "decisions made by the people of Scotland ". By the same people who are making them now? It's good decision making we need. You can argue about better decisions being made at a local level. Fair enough. Why then do Scot Gov centralise the powers in Edinburgh instead of devolving them to local level?? We have a stack load of powers already. Why move them from Westminster to Edinburgh? Then give them away to Brussels? 

 

That a rabble of shite.

Especially your last part. Westminster controls near on 70% of everything Scotland decides and its encroaching on that as we speak. Brussels would be what? 15% or something.

 

Think we would need another referendum to decide if we wanted to rejoin anyway. And we will.

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I was playing Boris Johnson Bingo last night. Had a full house after Sturgeon's first couple of answers, aided and abetted by that shouty, Green nutter. Like Mrs Thatcher before him, if they hadn't existed, they would have to have invented them. 

It’s embarrassing, mumping about with a chip on their shoulders. Blame, blame blame then promise the end of the rainbow. You see the types lapping it up as well wasting their life away blaming other people instead of getting on with life. Scaffs most of them trying to drag the country to its knees for some sort of freedom. I’ve no idea what being part of the union is stopping them doing. 

[Pans Jambo]

Delusional wee souls.

 

Flag waving wee brits (now TOLD to fly the apron from all government buildings and they've got the cheek to call Scots "Nationalists . What's next, accusing jonnie foreigner of stealing our jobs...oh wait!)

 

The one sided union is OVER.

 

Dry yer eyes lads. Boris hibsed it!

 

 

[AlimOzturk]

10 minutes ago, Dazo said:

It’s embarrassing, mumping about with a chip on their shoulders. Blame, blame blame then promise the end of the rainbow. You see the types lapping it up as well wasting their life away blaming other people instead of getting on with life. Scaffs most of them trying to drag the country to its knees for some sort of freedom. I’ve no idea what being part of the union is stopping them doing. 

How about moving or living anywhere in the EU without needing a Visa? 

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Economic? explain the positive case for that?

Cultural? Explain the positive case for that?

Trade? Not sure what you mean. Do independent countries not trade with each other? Ruk doesnt sell anything at all to Scotland then?

Political? WTF?

Social reasons? Are they switching off the mobile signals again?

STILL WAITING!!!

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Perfect.

Focus on what YOU think are the negatives. What else is negative in Ireland or Norway or is that it? Lots of foodbanks perhaps? High child mortality? Huge unemployment? Brutal public transport? Bad pensions? What else???????

 

WAITING ON A POSITIVE REASON>>>>>>STILL!!!

[Gizmo]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ffs, do you actually believe any of this stuff? It's scary to think the views that have ended up in people's heads. And they can vote, which scares the fecking daylights out of me🤣. Where do you think the extra funding comes from? When Sturgeon talks about spending x amount more per head on the NHS, she's arguing FOR the union. The Barnett formula gives us £2k per head more in public spending than the rUK gets. You didn't think Scotland "magics" that money up itself did you?

"Scares me these people can vote" says one of the most zealous and hyperbolic posters on this thread. You don't possess a shred of self-awareness to your own zealotry which clouds your ability to think critically. 🙄

Where do you think Westminster gets this money from - it couldnae be from Scottish taxpayers, per chance? The treasury used to publish an annual table showing the difference between income and spend in Scotland - and it was always more in than came back. Then they stopped publishing it - wonder why...

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We get comparisons with Ireland or Norway but no mention of there not being an NHS and paying to see a GP in Ireland or the sky high taxes in Norway.

 

Ah yes, that sky high top tax rate in Norway of... er, 38%, which is towers over England's top rate of... what, 45%? That can't be right.

 

Silly me thinking you'd attempted to engage with the facts for a moment there.

[Enzo Chiefo]

16 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

How about moving or living anywhere in the EU without needing a Visa? 

Without needing a Visa or being able to get a Vaccine.

[Dazo]

19 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

How about moving or living anywhere in the EU without needing a Visa? 

So a few more hurdles to jump through. If it’s something important to you or you want to do then you get a visa, is that a big deal ? Do we need spoon fed to get on with things ? 

[AlimOzturk]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Without needing a Visa or being able to get a Vaccine.

 The EU have utterly ****ed up the vaccine roll out. UK have blitzed it. Not sure wtf that has to do with Visas or freedom of movement however. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

15 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

"Scares me these people can vote" says one of the most zealous and hyperbolic posters on this thread. You don't possess a shred of self-awareness to your own zealotry which clouds your ability to think critically. 🙄

Where do you think Westminster gets this money from - it couldnae be from Scottish taxpayers, per chance? The treasury used to publish an annual table showing the difference between income and spend in Scotland - and it was always more in than came back. Then they stopped publishing it - wonder why...

Some comes from Scottish taxpayers of course, topped up by 15bn each year by rUK taxpayers. Based on latest, Scot Gov, figures we raise 66m and spend 81m👍

[AlimOzturk]

6 minutes ago, Dazo said:

So a few more hurdles to jump through. If it’s something important to you or you want to do then you get a visa, is that a big deal ? Do we need spoon fed to get on with things ? 

Not just a few more hurdles though is it? I can’t just say **** it I fancy travelling round Spain next year then go live in Italy for 6 months without significant hurdles in between. The whole point of freedom of movement is to stop all that shite. Why do humans need barriers in their way?

 

Know how many amazing experiences I have had travelling Europe without a care in the world. I feel sorry for my kids who can’t just do that. 
 

The union and the split in the Tory party did that. Not Scotland who overwhelmingly voted against it. 

Edited March 31 by AlimOzturk

[OTT]

 

Alba candidates announced. Quite pleased with most of them. Irshad Ahmed was (IMO) completely ****ed over by the SNP for Graham Campbell who is a Glasgow councillor and the partner of Anne McLaughlin MP...  Would be quiet funny to see Irshad elected despite the underhandedness to get Campbell in ahead of him. Seems like quite a good mix. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Elections are definitely a good thing. Seems things Governments never considered or were too expensive suddenly get given.

 

Laptops for every school pupil, 18 to 20 year olds no longer paying council tax, more housing. Lots of promises by other parties too. And that's before the manifestos are published. 

 

All presumably not possible previously. 

Depends if the promises are fulfilled, at least one party have promised to build more houses at every election since WWI. 
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/05/tories-broke-pledge-on-starter-homes-in-2015-manifesto-report-says

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Alba candidates announced. Quite pleased with most of them. Irshad Ahmed was (IMO) completely ****ed over by the SNP for Graham Campbell who is a Glasgow councillor and the partner of Anne McLaughlin MP...  Would be quiet funny to see Irshad elected despite the underhandedness to get Campbell in ahead of him. Seems like quite a good mix. 

Graham is a great person, as is Ann. Will take your word for it that there was something amiss. 
Craig Berry is also a good guy. 
Alex Arthur is a thick racist Hibs *****. 

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Some comes from Scottish taxpayers of course, topped up by 15bn each year by rUK taxpayers. Based on latest, Scot Gov, figures we raise 66m and spend 81m👍

Could you show us these figures please. Not the laughable Gers ones though. The difference between £66m and £81m is not £15b. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Could you show us these figures please. Not the laughable Gers ones though. The difference between £66m and £81m is not £15b. 

Haha.  I think you knew that was a typo, PfK. The difference between 66bn and 81bn is indeed 15bn though. Do you want a breakdown of where the money is spent? Off the top of my patch,  it's 30% on the ever fashionable "social protection", 17% on health, only 4.5% on defence,  reserved to WM of course but something an independent Scotland would be responsible for, 8% on crime prevention,  policing etc. 

[Gizmo]

7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Some comes from Scottish taxpayers of course, topped up by 15bn each year by rUK taxpayers. Based on latest, Scot Gov, figures we raise 66m and spend 81m👍

Did you factor in that the majority of our exports leave English ports and are accordingly counted as English revenue?

Or the fact we paid more in per head of population, than anywhere else in the UK - at least up until 2013 when the figures stopped being recorded. Currently, we are probably only lower than the S.East, which is skewed by the revenues raised in the City.  

So, on that basis, we are more than well equipped to thrive because:

a) we can borrow easily at the current low interest rates, with our currency backed by our oil reserves and our excellent GDP. 
b) all our exports will be counted as Scottish revenue
c) we can choose not to spend on preposterous investments that we are currently charged for - Trident, High Speed rail systems that stop at Birmingham but supposedly benefit Scotland, etc etc - allowing money to be spent where it is needed, not given to tory donators' ficticious companies by a hideously corrupt government. 

So, to sum up, any additional spending over GDP (which is currently not correctly calculated), comes from Westminster as borrowing, not from rUK taxpayers. An independent Scotland could leverage similar funding sources backed by our diverse economy, and choose to spend it much more effectively on health, education, infrastructure etc and less on lining tory donors pockets, vanity projects that don't benefit us or unethical WMDs.

Good to know.