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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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dobmisterdobster
52 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'd say late 2022-2023 sounds about right but if it were up to me the independence parties would be putting UDI in their manifestos, winning the election and declaring independence.

But that's just me.

 

The Uk government and therefore the international community would never recognise such a move. Hence why the SNP doesn't do it.

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Roxy Hearts
4 hours ago, Candy said:

Your 1st paragraph is your opinion, not fact.  It's a common one though; the poor - downtrodden by the English - Scottish attitude that many independence supporters display.

 

Your 2nd paragraph - excellent.  I'm genuinely pleased to hear it 👍

I never said anything about the English. I have English family and friends. 

 

The 3 parties I mentioned take orders from the main ones at Westminster. Are you denying that, being naive or obtuse?

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48 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I never said anything about the English. I have English family and friends. 

 

The 3 parties I mentioned take orders from the main ones at Westminster. Are you denying that, being naive or obtuse?

It's your opinion. I have a different one.  We can agree to differ.

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Governor Tarkin
2 hours ago, Smithee said:

I'd say late 2022-2023 sounds about right but if it were up to me the independence parties would be putting UDI in their manifestos, winning the election and declaring independence.

But that's just me.

 

Ooft. I'm not a mad keen seperatist for reasons we've discussed before, but this is the kind of revolutionary shit I could really get behind. 

 

It could be the catalyst for the type of shakedown that these Isles really need, to the benefit of all of us. 

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I never said anything about the English. I have English family and friends. 

 

The 3 parties I mentioned take orders from the main ones at Westminster. Are you denying that, being naive or obtuse?

What's wrong with taking orders from London? London is a global hub and hundreds of thousands of Scots work for companies who "take orders from London ".  In other news, Shetlanders "take orders" from Edinburgh. Independence or not, anyone with career ambitions will head South if they want to improve themselves.  It's happened for decades and is a natural progression.   

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More Barnett funded bribes. Free teeth for the oldies and a laptop and tinternet fur the wains. Walk away from that gravy train and see what happens. A £5k per skull deficit and lucky white heather. In Nicoliar they trust.

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Governor Tarkin
38 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What's wrong with taking orders from London? London is a global hub and hundreds of thousands of Scots work for companies who "take orders from London ".  In other news, Shetlanders "take orders" from Edinburgh. Independence or not, anyone with career ambitions will head South if they want to improve themselves.  It's happened for decades and is a natural progression.   

 

It was only the Hearts that kept me from the Big Smoke, Enzo. I too could've been a contender for captial's rich rewards. :(

 

Plenty of clubs down there, obviously, but none with that heady mixture of working class ignorance beneath a veneer of establishment superiority that drew an idealistic young pup like me to Tynecastle like a moth to a flame. 

 

 

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

 

Plenty of clubs down there, obviously, but none with that heady mixture of working class bigotry beneath a veneer of establishment superiority that drew me to Tynecastle like a moth to a flame. 

 

 

You sound like a natural for Chelsea. 

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Governor Tarkin
Just now, Tazio said:

You sound like a natural for Chelsea. 

 

The only good thing about Chelsea is the tractor I drive the nippers to nursery in, Taz. 

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3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The only good thing about Chelsea is the tractor I drive the nippers to nursery in, Taz. 

Is the correct answer. 

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Enzo Chiefo
5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It was only the Hearts that kept me from the Big Smoke, Enzo. I too could've been a contender for captial's rich rewards. :(

 

Plenty of clubs down there, obviously, but none with that heady mixture of working class bigotry beneath a veneer of establishment superiority that drew me to Tynecastle like a moth to a flame. 

 

 

Great description of our club and support base, Guv'nr.👍 we've always had that mix. I remember back in the early 80s, possibly during the Miners Strike??, that the Great Waldo, a Tory and an establishment pillar, offered free admission to UB40 card holders. Probably now, and given our proud, shared WW1 history, I would follow the lead of that PHM, Nelly Terraces, and follow the fortunes of Orient  - The O's.  I visited their memorial, as part of the Footballers Batallion, near to Contalmaison back in 2016.

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Governor Tarkin
3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Great description of our club and support base, Guv'nr.👍 we've always had that mix. I remember back in the early 80s, possibly during the Miners Strike??, that the Great Waldo, a Tory and an establishment pillar, offered free admission to UB40 card holders. Probably now, and given our proud, shared WW1 history, I would follow the lead of that PHM, Nelly Terraces, and follow the fortunes of Orient  - The O's.  I visited their memorial, as part of the Footballers Batallion, near to Contalmaison back in 2016.

 

A visit to the battlefields and war cemeteries of Northern France and the low countries is a sobering endeavour, Enzo. Such a tragic waste on all sides, I'm sure we agree. A loss that on human terms should trancend all ephemeral, mortal allegiances. May such folly never be repeated. 

 

PHM NT does us all a good service each year at Haymarket. 

 

 

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Enzo Chiefo
3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

A visit to the battlefields and war cemeteries of Northern France and the low countries is a sobering endeavour, Enzo. Such a tragic waste on all sides, I'm sure we agree. A loss that on human terms should trancend all ephemeral, mortal allegiances. May such folly never be repeated. 

 

PHM NT does us all a good service each year at Haymarket. 

 

 

Great post, Guv. Completely agree. 👍

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JudyJudyJudy
27 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

I agree (which is why you often see the Scotland flag+ the EU flag together in SNP language e.g. on twitter profiles, on the SNP lapel badge).

 

My understanding of the situation is that people who wanted Scotland to become an independent country in 2014, thought that the UK referendum result in 2016 would effectively *bounce* ppl who live in Scotland into becoming supporters of Scotland becoming independent. 

I have a lot of screenshots of Twitter that night, and the two groups of people who were noticeably happy and jubilant, were people from the two separatist political ideologies. 

 

Which, in yet another of a mountain of discrepencies, now means, I think, an independent Scotland might not have a referendum on attempting to join the EU, we have all been pound into brain jelly mince.

 

Maybe an indy Scotland wouldn't even negotiate with the EU, it would just be pure acceptance.

 

And then we would all be fully independent and free.

 

(just checking, are you an alien who is drinking my brain as a cocktail?)

If Scotland became independent we could then have a ref to re join the EU I believe . It’s the only fair thing to do . No party should have re joining the EU as a pledge when we aren’t even independent yet . It just muddies the waters 

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JudyJudyJudy
7 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

That might be the alien scooping your brains out with a straw taking affect. Or maybe the pain-killing drug that is part of the alien scooping your brains out hasn't taken affect yet.

 

But as far I I know, an independent Scotland is going right back into the EU* (cos it's magic, miracle money plus progressive righteous identity politics). 

I don't think I have heard a single thing about an independent Scotland asking it's people for a referendum about it. 

 

*Obviously an independent Scotland wouldn't just, within days, rejoin the EU, it would maybe, take , more than a month?

Are u on drugs ? 

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JudyJudyJudy
7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

I have drunk some red wine. So yes.

 

Are we not allowed, by you, Livia avatar bloke, to run with a little imagination and metaphor?

Thought so ! Unlike livia soprano I have a sense of humour but I share her world view that “ it’s all a big nothing “ I’ll know  re read that comment since I had had a few wines when I replied 😂

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coconut doug
11 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Great post, Guv. Completely agree. 👍

 

Whilst simultaneously posting this on another thread - I'm heading over the border for a week at the end of May, regardless of advice, instructions or laws emanating from Frau Sturgeon.  Seems to me you are desperately trying to dig the trenches for the north british resistance but as yet you haven't scratched the surface. I'm sure you'll let us all know what your latest instructions are when you get back from the motherland.

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2 hours ago, Dazo said:

So have I got this right, no referendum on rejoining the EU for an independent Scotland ? 😂

There should be a Referendum on Scotlands future relationship with the EU. Thankfully, at this moment in time, that isn't anyone's decision to make. 

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9 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

There should be a Referendum on Scotlands future relationship with the EU. Thankfully, at this moment in time, that isn't anyone's decision to make. 


Absolutely there should be. What does that say about the person who thinks there doesn’t need to be.  

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Do snp voters understand the spare uk billions Sturgeon has found down the back of the sofa will vanish overnight in an impoverished iScotland. 5k a skull per year she has to find. That's probably 15k for us tax payers. It's like living in an episode of the Twilight Zone with this cult.

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6 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Absolutely there should be. What does that say about the person who thinks there doesn’t need to be.  

That's their personal opinion. It won't be upto them when if it comes down to it. 

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Enzo Chiefo
9 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Do snp voters understand the spare uk billions Sturgeon has found down the back of the sofa will vanish overnight in an impoverished iScotland. 5k a skull per year she has to find. That's probably 15k for us tax payers. It's like living in an episode of the Twilight Zone with this cult.

So, free bikes, laptops, lunches and bus travel for youngsters? No income tax rises for 5 years and we'll throw in a 4 day week. Anyone with even an ounce of common sense or intelligence would realise that is unadulterated,  student union garbage. Completely undeliverable and unaffordable,  even with the 14% Barnett hike she is banking on receiving. The same largesse that she wants to turn her back on with separation.  The woman is deranged.

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Enzo Chiefo
48 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Whilst simultaneously posting this on another thread - I'm heading over the border for a week at the end of May, regardless of advice, instructions or laws emanating from Frau Sturgeon.  Seems to me you are desperately trying to dig the trenches for the north british resistance but as yet you haven't scratched the surface. I'm sure you'll let us all know what your latest instructions are when you get back from the motherland.

Wtf are you talking about?  Even in East Germany, the people eventually railed against being imprisoned within their own borders. Thankfully, as I alluded to in my reply to GT, our forefathers fought against that threat to our freedom. Which is why you are able to post freely on sites like this.

 

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3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

So, free bikes, laptops, lunches and bus travel for youngsters? No income tax rises for 5 years and we'll throw in a 4 day week. Anyone with even an ounce of common sense or intelligence would realise that is unadulterated,  student union garbage. Completely undeliverable and unaffordable,  even with the 14% Barnett hike she is banking on receiving. The same largesse that she wants to turn her back on with separation.  The woman is deranged.

 

And pretty terrifying for sane thinking Scots. No income tax rise for 5 years but she wants out of the UK in two. Think about the whopper that will be if this lying - manifesto written on the back of a fag packet - militant gets her way.  We've got a gun at our heads held by her, her cult and school kid vote.

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coconut doug
On 14/04/2021 at 11:42, SE16 3LN said:

 CD, this is why WOS is dangerous. Like WOS I had never heard of LGBT World until now. The two paragraphs (in a 200 page document)which are used to "prove" the point about Pedophiles, don't say anything about the age of consent. As far as I can see the Feminist Declaration (which I haven't read) is an attempt to defend girls as young as 9 from forced marriage to men sometimes in their 60's and 70's and 80's.

 

It may or may not surprise you that in many of the 71 countries where Homosexuality is illegal, young boys are abused and raped by men in power and because its illegal to be gay, these boys have no rights in law when they are raped. I believe the paragraphs in the declaration refer to boys and girls right to chose not to be married/raped and abused in other ways. 

 

To jump from this to accusing the SNP of funding a pedophile organisation (Stonewall Scotland) is astonishing and I am surprised that Margaret Lynch has picked up this ball and run with it given her previous record on Gay issues. I'm not surprised at WOS however. They then pick up the fact that a member of Stonewall Scotland in the 70's was a member of the PIE in the 70's. Its the same tactic you then use to attack the Labour party, claiming the PIE was their vehicle for supporting adults having sex with children (it took me a while to realise you are actually serious about this).

 

The "gays are pedophiles slur" is disgusting and people with a high public profile have a serious responsibility not to perpetuate this myth. After all the vast majority of pedophiles are Heterosexual men and there are more female pedophiles than gay pedophiles. What should we take from that CD?

 

 I appreciate the attempt to engage properly. I'm also very surprised at your staunch attempt to defend the SNP. Nobody though is suggesting that they are deliberately funding a paedohile supporting organisation as far as i can see. Your point about abuses in other countries is salient too but it is also true that the words used in the charter speak for themselves so it seems best if Margaret Lynch speaks for herself as well. https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/what-i-really-said-at-the-alba-party-conference-margaret-lynch-3202489 

 

The links LGBT Scotland had to convicted paedophiles are local to Edinburgh and only 12 years old. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/oct/29/courts-abuse-paedophile-ring-scotland It seems to me that if you wanted access to adolescents who may be experiencing difficulties and vulnerabilities then joining LGBT groups would be a good way to do that. LGBT Scotland were not too pleased either it seems. They said 

"LGBT Youth Scotland abhors any abuse of children and young people's rights. It is with a particular sense of betrayal of our organisational purpose and values that we learned of the crimes committed by James Rennie, and we are utterly appalled by his abuse and exploitation of children." Why would we not take that statement at face value? Nevertheless they were infiltrated.

 

Absolutely nobody is saying that "gays are paedophiles" including Wings.

 

On your other point re PIE you are totaly correct. It was not a vehicle for Labour. It was however supported by Patricia Hewitt (future cabinet minister) and others who advocated for a reduction in the age of consent to 10.

 

As for your assertion that gay people are underrepresented as paedophiles, then i can say i have no way of knowing. Presumably you have some research findings to prove your point. I am surprised though to find females are higher than gay men in this category. Do you think this might be because many of the females might be biological males? Even more so when you consider that females cant join the priesthood. 

 

  

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coconut doug
16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Wtf are you talking about?  Even in East Germany, the people eventually railed against being imprisoned within their own borders. Thankfully, as I alluded to in my reply to GT, our forefathers fought against that threat to our freedom. Which is why you are able to post freely on sites like this.

 

 

What threat to our freedom?     Who is imprisoning you within your own borders? Is it Frau Nicola on the advice of the dentist?

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Unknown user
57 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

What threat to our freedom?     Who is imprisoning you within your own borders? Is it Frau Nicola on the advice of the dentist?

 

There's a certain beautiful irony in loudly and repeatedly complaining about being muzzled.

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Enzo Chiefo
33 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There's a certain beautiful irony in loudly and repeatedly complaining about being muzzled.

Any regime that wants to legislate against private conversations within your own home, "offensive" or otherwise are, I would suggest, well worth the watching.  When future generations ask "but why didn't you do something ", I hope you have an answer to hand.

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

What threat to our freedom?     Who is imprisoning you within your own borders? Is it Frau Nicola on the advice of the dentist?

Had you read the post to which I replied, you would have known that I was responding to the suggestion that Sturgeon may "close" the border, should the WM govt not dance to her tume on foreign travel.

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Unknown user
5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Any regime that wants to legislate against private conversations within your own home, "offensive" or otherwise are, I would suggest, well worth the watching.  When future generations ask "but why didn't you do something ", I hope you have an answer to hand.

 

To be fair I doubt they'd be impressed with "I pished my frillies on a public forum on a daily basis" so I'm comfortable with my current course, thanks

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Roxy Hearts
2 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

And pretty terrifying for sane thinking Scots. No income tax rise for 5 years but she wants out of the UK in two. Think about the whopper that will be if this lying - manifesto written on the back of a fag packet - militant gets her way.  We've got a gun at our heads held by her, her cult and school kid vote.

Your posts are becoming more shrill. Calm down. Do you not like independent countries? Ever been on holiday? Where's Westminster's magic money tree?

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22 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Your posts are becoming more shrill. Calm down. Do you not like independent countries? Ever been on holiday? Where's Westminster's magic money tree?

 

 

You are proof that age and wisdom are not mutually inclusive.

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

To be fair I doubt they'd be impressed with "I pished my frillies on a public forum on a daily basis" so I'm comfortable with my current course, thanks

What, advocating UDI?? That would play well with the markets and the rest of the civilised world. Fill yer boots!

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Enzo Chiefo
1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

I think you'd need to be as thick as shite to vote snp, to be bluntly honest.

Harsh but true 

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Unknown user
26 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What, advocating UDI?? That would play well with the markets and the rest of the civilised world. Fill yer boots!

 

Like I said, if it was up to me that's what I'd do, so what?

 

What answer will you give when future generations ask about your contribution enzo? **** all but at least I whined?

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Enzo Chiefo
23 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Like I said, if it was up to me that's what I'd do, so what?

 

What answer will you give when future generations ask about your contribution enzo? **** all but at least I whined?

I'm not whining, I'm lamenting the fact that Scottish politics has reached such a nadir. To quote one famous lady, infinitely more sensible and knowledgeable than any modern  politician , "i hope people think very carefully before voting ".

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coconut doug
3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Had you read the post to which I replied, you would have known that I was responding to the suggestion that Sturgeon may "close" the border, should the WM govt not dance to her tume on foreign travel.

 

Dance to her tune! I suppose we'll have to accept what the PM says then and dance to his tune instead.

 

Sturgeon hasn't and wont close the border irrespective of the merits in so doing. She dances to their tune same as you do.

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1 hour ago, Mars plastic said:

I think you'd need to be as thick as shite to vote snp, to be bluntly honest.

Thanks for your considered input to the discussion. 

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Unknown user
1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I'm not whining, I'm lamenting the fact that Scottish politics has reached such a nadir. To quote one famous lady, infinitely more sensible and knowledgeable than any modern  politician , "i hope people think very carefully before voting ".

 

What answer will you have ready when asked But why didn't you do something?

 

I don't think it's a big issue, you do. Yet we're both doing exactly the same about it. **** all.

 

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2 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

I think you'd need to be as thick as shite to vote snp, to be bluntly honest.

 

I think you'd need to be thick as shit to vote tory 🤷‍♂️

 

Unless you're already stinking rich and want more of course. Which after the new stand fit out costs, you very well could be.

 

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SNP: Clearly defined long term goals. Been in power for donkey's years. Proven track record in government, even if that track record is of a merely basic level of competence.

Far from perfect.

 

Tories: A single issue party of protest who's one and only policy is "indypendunce nivvur". Nothing positive to offer.

 

Labour: Exist. Can't tell you anything other than that.

 

LibDems: Also exist. Not a scoobie what any of their policies are.

 

Greens: Slowly toning back their extremist stance of the last few decades. Having been a partner in Government for a while has tempered them.

 

Everybody else: Extremist bams.

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coconut doug
27 minutes ago, Cade said:

SNP: Clearly defined long term goals. Been in power for donkey's years. Proven track record in government, even if that track record is of a merely basic level of competence.

Far from perfect.

 

Tories: A single issue party of protest who's one and only policy is "indypendunce nivvur". Nothing positive to offer.

 

Labour: Exist. Can't tell you anything other than that.

 

LibDems: Also exist. Not a scoobie what any of their policies are.

 

Greens: Slowly toning back their extremist stance of the last few decades. Having been a partner in Government for a while has tempered them.

 

Everybody else: Extremist bams.

 

Is there not a party that supports independence?

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1 hour ago, Cade said:

SNP: Clearly defined long term goals. Been in power for donkey's years. Proven track record in government, even if that track record is of a merely basic level of competence.

Far from perfect.

 

Tories: A single issue party of protest who's one and only policy is "indypendunce nivvur". Nothing positive to offer.

 

Labour: Exist. Can't tell you anything other than that.

 

LibDems: Also exist. Not a scoobie what any of their policies are.

 

Greens: Slowly toning back their extremist stance of the last few decades. Having been a partner in Government for a while has tempered them.

 

Everybody else: Extremist bams.

I was talking to someone about the Greens and how they've toned down some of their more mental policies. He did point out though that over the years what was considered to be loony Green policies, 10-15 years later, tended to be mainstream party policies. They're always just a bit too ahead of the curve. 

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jack D and coke

Look at the way you’re mocked....Look how they perceive you...

You scrounging, whingeing jocks! 
Get off your knees!! 

30726CD0-32BC-482F-AAAC-1E95C1C00058.jpeg

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