The rise and fall of The SNP.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, XB52 said:

For the avoidance of doubt I think that quote from her is scandalous and it doesn't matter one bit what party she used to be part of. It is a terrible attempt to equate lgbt groups and the SG with encouraging paedophilea. No surprise that it originated from the homophobic bigot at WoS. 

Well said.  Yes he seems to be a real ^^^^ . the guy running WoS . He is showing his true colours now. Disgusting man

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Not really , it’s all relative.

no matter where I moved/ lived etc I would continue to be well off.

in the same manner that people with little skills would remain poor.

nations and borders don’t change that and never have.

therein lies the problem.

Politics is about convincing people to think they can have what others have, or to have more than they do, despite the fact their skills are not worth the same as someone else’s .

the REAL goal would be persuading kids to work at school and try their hardest.

but they don’t .

the greatest difference to educational achievement is parental attitude to education .

do poorly at school and chances are your earnings will be lower.

Scotgov have had full power over education, and have done f-all.

Its easier to blame others than yourself

Very true and insightful. I was " wide " enough to know as a child that coming from a poor background I had zero chances in life if 

 

1.  Buckle down at school . Get qualifications and get out of that environment Get to university 

2. Turn to a life of crime with hopefully  only brief episodes of prison or just never get caught ( unrealistic)

3. Have a talent of some sort which could earn money, acting . singing , footballer etc

4 Marry or at least be in a relationship with someone with money

5. Win the lottery or the like

6. Settle in a mundane low paid job for the rest of my life 

 

I choose number 1 and it worked 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by JamesM48

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Nonsense. I understood it from the day I started school. 15th of April 1968. When I was off with measles, my dad went round the school and got my school work for me to do in bed. My sums, my spellings(words kept in an old empty tobacco tin), then my dad when I was coming up for 8yrs old used to get me to read the Daily Express( broadsheet in those days) to him. A good education was drummed into me from the start.

Similar to me John. My parents knew i was " bright" and I got encouraged.  Sadly some kids dont get that same level of encouragement and dont have any aspirations to do better in life. I dont mean material things as such I met a more holistic happier and healthier life. 

[doctor jambo]

57 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Of the 20 or so people that are still in my workplace after redundancies due to COVID nearly every person has a degree of some sort. 

In other words, do your homework , stick in at education and get qualifications , and you are more likely to be in work.

Scotland should NOT level down as the greens want.

Middle class parents WONT stop driving their kids just because scotgov cancels homework , or works online or closes schools.

Or even if the schools burnt down .

you need to make less “advantaged kids” realise the importance and stop trying to hobble success.

 

[coconut doug]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

For the avoidance of doubt I think that quote from her is scandalous and it doesn't matter one bit what party she used to be part of. It is a terrible attempt to equate lgbt groups and the SG with encouraging paedophilea. No surprise that it originated from the homophobic bigot at WoS. 

 

Nothing in this story originated with WOS. He is the messenger. He also went out of his way to state that he did not consider the SNP were in any way advocating for a reduction in the age of consent nor did he think that they wanted to do so. 

 

 He was also at pains to point out that he did not think there was any link between LGBT people and paedophilia and that he had never seen any research to suggest that there was. Campbell must be one of the few people in our society who has been taken to court accused of being homophobic and being specifically informed afterwards by a judge that he was not.

 

What he did say was that two organisations who were in receipt of scotgov funding did were signatories to a charter that did support the lowering of the age of consent. He also produced some evidence to show that some people involved with these groups had a dodgy past and had some dubious associations with the PIE, which you might remember was a Labour party vehicle supporting adults having sex with children.

 

Margaret Lynch, the woman who brought some of this to the attention of the Alba party's womens group. She's not homophobic. She has a testimony from a gay man who tells us she showed immense courage in defending him against homophobes. You can see his account on his twitter feed (Malcolm Clark). You should do this and you should read the wings stuff too then shoot it down if you are not convinced. What i'm convinced of is that the Rule Britannia, north britons are terrified of Alba and Alex Salmond and in their typical style they are happy to try and smear anybody and anything that might associate themselves with either. 

 

[jambostuart]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

Of course I'm not suggesting that tradesmen are less valuable, knowledgeable or skilled than those in other careers. I'm not even sure how you would get that from my point about stopping homework for primary school children, might  send out the wrong message to the young?

By calling Tazio's career "vocational" you were making a point his experience with education is somehow missing a point. Apologies if I misread the intention of your post, but I am unsure why you pointed out his career somehow makes his point on education and high school less valid?

 

I have a degree in Technical Theatre which I obtained, which aided me in gaining jobs during the Fringe and other gigs, and currently have a good career with a bank. I flunked high school and my only "qualifications" are in Theatre. I still have gainful employment in the finance sector and have developed the skills to make an extra living throughout the year when I can. 

My point is there is too much impetus given to "traditional" education methods. Many who do not have high academic results in primary or high school are no less educated if they pick up other skills and this should he looked at by the government.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

Nothing in this story originated with WOS. He is the messenger. He also went out of his way to state that he did not consider the SNP were in any way advocating for a reduction in the age of consent nor did he think that they wanted to do so. 

 

 He was also at pains to point out that he did not think there was any link between LGBT people and paedophilia and that he had never seen any research to suggest that there was. Campbell must be one of the few people in our society who has been taken to court accused of being homophobic and being specifically informed afterwards by a judge that he was not.

 

What he did say was that two organisations who were in receipt of scotgov funding did were signatories to a charter that did support the lowering of the age of consent. He also produced some evidence to show that some people involved with these groups had a dodgy past and had some dubious associations with the PIE, which you might remember was a Labour party vehicle supporting adults having sex with children.

 

Margaret Lynch, the woman who brought some of this to the attention of the Alba party's womens group. She's not homophobic. She has a testimony from a gay man who tells us she showed immense courage in defending him against homophobes. You can see his account on his twitter feed (Malcolm Clark). You should do this and you should read the wings stuff too then shoot it down if you are not convinced. What i'm convinced of is that the Rule Britannia, north britons are terrified of Alba and Alex Salmond and in their typical style they are happy to try and smear anybody and anything that might associate themselves with either. 

 

That’s as bad as a racist saying “ I’m not racist I have black friends “ pathetic 

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

In other words, do your homework , stick in at education and get qualifications , and you are more likely to be in work.

Scotland should NOT level down as the greens want.

Middle class parents WONT stop driving their kids just because scotgov cancels homework , or works online or closes schools.

Or even if the schools burnt down .

you need to make less “advantaged kids” realise the importance and stop trying to hobble success.

 

You're a GP I assume - surely of many professions you'll be very aware of the deleterious effects of poverty and lack of hope.

Everything you say just fails to recognize that it is not always a person's fault that their circumstances drag them down. Disadvantaged doesn't just mean not being driven to school in a Range Rover - it means lack of food, lack of equipment, tired, stressed parents, lack of food or self-esteem. What if they are born to uneducated parents who work hard, love them but can barely read or help them with homework? What about the kid across the street here, living in a single parent house, who had no internet and didn't have a PC until I built one for them - and had to come over here to print off assignments and homework sheets? Why do I get the feeling that you'd be quick to complain about the SNP ensuring all school age kids get a laptop/tablet - "something for nothing" culture?

Living in a sink estate attending a school where they don't even measure results is not going to afford even the hardest working kid with the same opportunities as someone sent to Eton. Addresses and schools attended still mean people miss the cut when 50% of CVs for a position are binned. 

With all due respect, whilst I don't doubt you worked hard and made the most of your oppportunities you could still do with being a bit more empathetic to those who, due to no crime beyond living in some of our worst communities, will never have the same opportunities many of us are lucky enough to take advantage of. It's not easy out there - instead of the lazy trope of "work harder" we could maybe look to our politicians to even the playing field to provide these kids with more chances to succeed.  

[dobmisterdobster]

On 12/04/2021 at 20:50, dobmisterdobster said:

 

It's just a legal challenge not a veto. Anyone can take the Scottish government to court. Nothing special about the UK government doing it.

 

 

Update: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/973000/Letter.pdf

 

Looks like the SNP's legal team aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

[coconut doug]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

That’s as bad as a racist saying “ I’m not racist I have black friends “ pathetic 

 

Not being a racist is the same as not being a homophobe unless you can show me where the homophobia is.

 

You haven't read it, have you?

[Mysterion]

6 hours ago, pablo said:

 

As a wee build on your last point, I noticed that the Scottish Greens are proposing to end homework for primary school children as they believe it disadvantages children who live in an environment where motivation to work hard is not present. They believe it contributes to the growing attainment gap.

 

I actually despair about some of the nonsense politicians come out with around education and wonder how many of them are even parents themselves. 

 

Perhaps the message is wrong from the politicians but there is a new outlook in the teaching fraternity that homework in primary schools has little tangible benefit. There are schools in and around where i live that have scrapped homework. 

 

The demographic of the schools are mixed. 

 

It goes against what we were lead to believe - it's just surprising.

[Costanza]

Finland has one of the best ranked education systems in the world, and they hardly do any homework.

Maybe investigating what works well in other countries and seeing if it could be replicated here would be a better idea than just dismissing ideas out of hand.

 

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Not even joking here, but have you alerted any governments around the world about your miracle solution?

Being a smartarse doesn’t really help anyone. 

[Costanza]

16 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Not even joking here, but have you alerted any governments around the world about your miracle solution?

My miracle solution?

It was a clearly a response to folk dismissing the idea out of hand on this thread.

Anyway,  I'm available for consultation on internet searches and reading posts correctly.

 

 

[Costanza]

Just now, Zlatanable said:

Do you charge people money for 'Internet searches and rescinding posts correctly?'

(like how might a person, on say a football forum, make a claim for a refund from you?)

I make no charge. Not for any egalitarian reasons.

Just for anonymity and people finding out I'm not as clever as I make out.

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, Costanza said:

My miracle solution?

It was a clearly a response to folk dismissing the idea out of hand on this thread.

Anyway,  I'm available for consultation on internet searches and reading posts correctly.

 

 

 

If I might offer a thoughtful response to your post, Finland does indeed have a highly ranked education system - envied in many education ministries around the world - and their experts don't consider homework to be a major contributor to learning and academic performance.  I happen to know many people who work in the areas of pedagogy and educational psychology.  I can't say that all of them think that homework should be reduced or eliminated, but most do, and I certainly have never heard anyone actively advocate for it to stay at its current levels or be increased.

[Tazio]

8 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Thank you for your smartarse watch over the last 205 pages. 

The concept of 'being a smartarse' under your watch has been a tale of such freedom of speech. 

And another smartarse answer. I’m sure in your head this is a hilarious and witty reply. 

[Ulysses]

If the last set of polls is to be believed, the SNP certainly don't look like losing any seats at the Scottish Parliament election, and may even gain 2 or 3.  That's something a lot of governing parties in Europe would envy.

[Tazio]

Just now, Zlatanable said:

yah, @Tazio, you don't seem to get the longer game. 

You are fine to have your clawing away at me. 

 

 

What the hell are you on about? Someone made a very good and relevant post relating to what people were talking about and you tried to mock him. What that has to do with the long game and me “clawing away at you”. I’m not even sure I’ve interacted with you on a thread before. 

[Ulysses]

4 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

If only life was that simple. 

 

Right now, the best available indicators say that the SNP won't lost seats at the next election, and may even gain them.  Where's this fall of which you speak?

[Costanza]

10 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

If I might offer a thoughtful response to your post, Finland does indeed have a highly ranked education system - envied in many education ministries around the world - and their experts don't consider homework to be a major contributor to learning and academic performance.  I happen to know many people who work in the areas of pedagogy and educational psychology.  I can't say that all of them think that homework should be reduced or eliminated, but most do, and I certainly have never heard anyone actively advocate for it to stay at its current levels or be increased.

Cheers. You clearly know more about this subject than me and to be honest, I was really only aware of the more holistic approach that Finland take to education, fairly recently (had some dealings through work with a Finnish client and for sheer curiousness, started reading up on the country as didn't know much about it).

I daresay the level of homework is only one of many factors but it does seem to stand out as something radically different to what we do in the UK, hence why I didn't think the greens suggestion was one to be just dismissed out of hand

 

 

 

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

The 'which I speak' stuff, is about how the SNP have given up their honesty and decency, and they know they have. 

 

And that is their fall. 

 

Is that it?  The SNP are in government, and all across Europe that is an open invitation for voters to stick the boot in.  Yet there's no evidence of that happening in Scotland.  The SNP have had a horrendous few months in the news since Christmas, and genuinely made a bollix of the Salmond thing, yet they are still on course to at least hold what they have or even gain.  That simply would not compute almost anywhere else.  Of course there's a possibility that things will change between now and the count, but right now you have to hand it to the SNP and admit that whatever else they are, they're not unpopular.

 

Does that mean that if they win 65 seats in the election, you'll say they've fallen because, well, that's your opinion?

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but being realistic that opinion - no matter how passionately felt or how frequently expressed - is not worth a whole lot when put beside the evidence, which is that the SNP have risen and are staying afloat, or aloft, or whatever the right metaphor is.

 

That, as they say, is democracy.

[Ulysses]

4 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Cheers. You clearly know more about this subject than me and to be honest, I was really only aware of the more holistic approach that Finland take to education, fairly recently (had some dealings through work with a Finnish client and for sheer curiousness, started reading up on the country as didn't know much about it).

I daresay the level of homework is only one of many factors but it does seem to stand out as something radically different to what we do in the UK, hence why I didn't think the greens suggestion was one to be just dismissed out of hand

 

 

 

 

I'd agree with you, and as it happens so would a lot of experts in the field.  I know a couple of people who run an after school care operation.  Children spend some of their time in the setup doing homework, but these people limit that time in favour of socialising and play.  The parents of some kids don't like that, but it's based on expert advice. 

[JackLadd]

SNP are swindlers and charlatans fronted by a proven brazen liar. If the block grant was taken away tomorrow and they had to find the missing 15bn to keep the lights on their credulous Scumdee and Weegian base wouldn't know what hit them. Taking away their jellies level stress. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by JackLadd

[Ulysses]

45 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

That was too many words. 

 

 

Surrender accepted.  Thanks.

[Ulysses]

22 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

SNP are swindlers and charlatans fronted by a proven brazen liar. If the block grant was taken away tomorrow and they had to find the missing 15bn to keep the lights on their credulous Scumdee and Weegian base wouldn't know what hit them. Taking away their jellies level stress. 

 

The election is scheduled for 22 days from now.  Which party campaign are you taking part in?

[XB52]

If anyone was still in doubt about the anti SG bias shown by BBC Scotland, just watch the the 5 minute news this morning. When pubs opened for outdoor drinking in England the news was full of happy people delighted with being able to drink again; both punters and publicans. Today bbc Scotland starts with publicans moaning that lots of pubs won't be able to open. It's so blatant now

[XB52]

11 hours ago, Gizmo said:

You're a GP I assume - surely of many professions you'll be very aware of the deleterious effects of poverty and lack of hope.

Everything you say just fails to recognize that it is not always a person's fault that their circumstances drag them down. Disadvantaged doesn't just mean not being driven to school in a Range Rover - it means lack of food, lack of equipment, tired, stressed parents, lack of food or self-esteem. What if they are born to uneducated parents who work hard, love them but can barely read or help them with homework? What about the kid across the street here, living in a single parent house, who had no internet and didn't have a PC until I built one for them - and had to come over here to print off assignments and homework sheets? Why do I get the feeling that you'd be quick to complain about the SNP ensuring all school age kids get a laptop/tablet - "something for nothing" culture?

Living in a sink estate attending a school where they don't even measure results is not going to afford even the hardest working kid with the same opportunities as someone sent to Eton. Addresses and schools attended still mean people miss the cut when 50% of CVs for a position are binned. 

With all due respect, whilst I don't doubt you worked hard and made the most of your oppportunities you could still do with being a bit more empathetic to those who, due to no crime beyond living in some of our worst communities, will never have the same opportunities many of us are lucky enough to take advantage of. It's not easy out there - instead of the lazy trope of "work harder" we could maybe look to our politicians to even the playing field to provide these kids with more chances to succeed.  

Not a hope in hell that he's a doctor. Anyone showing so much disdain for less well off people has no business being anywhere near health care

[XB52]

9 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Not being a racist is the same as not being a homophobe unless you can show me where the homophobia is.

 

You haven't read it, have you?

It is an attempt to link a gay rights group with paedophilia

[manaliveits105]

At least the snp leaflet is short as they have no achievements 

[coconut doug]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

It is an attempt to link a gay rights group with paedophilia

 

A successful one too. They are linked, they are signatories to a claim that wants to lower the age of consent and decriminalise sex with children. Did you read the article?

[SE16 3LN]

20 hours ago, XB52 said:

For the avoidance of doubt I think that quote from her is scandalous and it doesn't matter one bit what party she used to be part of. It is a terrible attempt to equate lgbt groups and the SG with encouraging paedophilea. No surprise that it originated from the homophobic bigot at WoS. 

Thanks for that XB, I originally thought your "living in London" comment meant you weren't taking the issue seriously. Apologies.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, XB52 said:

If anyone was still in doubt about the anti SG bias shown by BBC Scotland, just watch the the 5 minute news this morning. When pubs opened for outdoor drinking in England the news was full of happy people delighted with being able to drink again; both punters and publicans. Today bbc Scotland starts with publicans moaning that lots of pubs won't be able to open. It's so blatant now

Its accurate though . There was a poor woman on the news desperate for her cafe to open and almost begging Sturgeon to just open up now. But she doesnt give a flying f&&&

[Cruyff]

12 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Its accurate though . There was a poor woman on the news desperate for her cafe to open and almost begging Sturgeon to just open up now. But she doesnt give a flying f&&&

Aye, just wait until England go into lockdown again in the summer. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Aye, just wait until England go into lockdown again in the summer. 

Tragic comment really . Typical nasty vindictive SNP divisive rhetoric really. It sounds like you are hoping for that and not just making a statement which is even more concerning. 

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Tragic comment really . Typical nasty vindictive SNP divisive rhetoric really. It sounds like you are hoping for that and not just making a statement which is even more concerning. 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Tragic comment really . Typical nasty vindictive SNP divisive rhetoric really. It sounds like you are hoping for that and not just making a statement which is even more concerning. 

He's clearly saying that he prefers a cautious approach, you need to have a word if that's what you're reading into it mate

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

He's clearly saying that he prefers a cautious approach, you need to have a word if that's what you're reading into it mate

OK aye right 

[manaliveits105]

3 hours ago, XB52 said:

If anyone was still in doubt about the anti SG bias shown by BBC Scotland, just watch the the 5 minute news this morning. When pubs opened for outdoor drinking in England the news was full of happy people delighted with being able to drink again; both punters and publicans. Today bbc Scotland starts with publicans moaning that lots of pubs won't be able to open. It's so blatant now

14 years of snp administration have turned us into an unhappy divided race in general

[SE16 3LN]

16 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Nothing in this story originated with WOS. He is the messenger. He also went out of his way to state that he did not consider the SNP were in any way advocating for a reduction in the age of consent nor did he think that they wanted to do so. 

 

 He was also at pains to point out that he did not think there was any link between LGBT people and paedophilia and that he had never seen any research to suggest that there was. Campbell must be one of the few people in our society who has been taken to court accused of being homophobic and being specifically informed afterwards by a judge that he was not.

 

What he did say was that two organisations who were in receipt of scotgov funding did were signatories to a charter that did support the lowering of the age of consent. He also produced some evidence to show that some people involved with these groups had a dodgy past and had some dubious associations with the PIE, which you might remember was a Labour party vehicle supporting adults having sex with children.

 

Margaret Lynch, the woman who brought some of this to the attention of the Alba party's womens group. She's not homophobic. She has a testimony from a gay man who tells us she showed immense courage in defending him against homophobes. You can see his account on his twitter feed (Malcolm Clark). You should do this and you should read the wings stuff too then shoot it down if you are not convinced. What i'm convinced of is that the Rule Britannia, north britons are terrified of Alba and Alex Salmond and in their typical style they are happy to try and smear anybody and anything that might associate themselves with either. 

 

 CD, this is why WOS is dangerous. Like WOS I had never heard of LGBT World until now. The two paragraphs (in a 200 page document)which are used to "prove" the point about Pedophiles, don't say anything about the age of consent. As far as I can see the Feminist Declaration (which I haven't read) is an attempt to defend girls as young as 9 from forced marriage to men sometimes in their 60's and 70's and 80's.

 

It may or may not surprise you that in many of the 71 countries where Homosexuality is illegal, young boys are abused and raped by men in power and because its illegal to be gay, these boys have no rights in law when they are raped. I believe the paragraphs in the declaration refer to boys and girls right to chose not to be married/raped and abused in other ways. 

 

To jump from this to accusing the SNP of funding a pedophile organisation (Stonewall Scotland) is astonishing and I am surprised that Margaret Lynch has picked up this ball and run with it given her previous record on Gay issues. I'm not surprised at WOS however. They then pick up the fact that a member of Stonewall Scotland in the 70's was a member of the PIE in the 70's. Its the same tactic you then use to attack the Labour party, claiming the PIE was their vehicle for supporting adults having sex with children (it took me a while to realise you are actually serious about this).

 

The "gays are pedophiles slur" is disgusting and people with a high public profile have a serious responsibility not to perpetuate this myth. After all the vast majority of pedophiles are Heterosexual men and there are more female pedophiles than gay pedophiles. What should we take from that CD?

[XB52]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

Thanks for that XB, I originally thought your "living in London" comment meant you weren't taking the issue seriously. Apologies.

👍

[XB52]

7 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

 CD, this is why WOS is dangerous. Like WOS I had never heard of LGBT World until now. The two paragraphs (in a 200 page document)which are used to "prove" the point about Pedophiles, don't say anything about the age of consent. As far as I can see the Feminist Declaration (which I haven't read) is an attempt to defend girls as young as 9 from forced marriage to men sometimes in their 60's and 70's and 80's.

 

It may or may not surprise you that in many of the 71 countries where Homosexuality is illegal, young boys are abused and raped by men in power and because its illegal to be gay, these boys have no rights in law when they are raped. I believe the paragraphs in the declaration refer to boys and girls right to chose not to be married/raped and abused in other ways. 

 

To jump from this to accusing the SNP of funding a pedophile organisation (Stonewall Scotland) is astonishing and I am surprised that Margaret Lynch has picked up this ball and run with it given her previous record on Gay issues. I'm not surprised at WOS however. They then pick up the fact that a member of Stonewall Scotland in the 70's was a member of the PIE in the 70's. Its the same tactic you then use to attack the Labour party, claiming the PIE was their vehicle for supporting adults having sex with children (it took me a while to realise you are actually serious about this).

 

The "gays are pedophiles slur" is disgusting and people with a high public profile have a serious responsibility not to perpetuate this myth. After all the vast majority of pedophiles are Heterosexual men and there are more female pedophiles than gay pedophiles. What should we take from that CD?

Great post

[XB52]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Its accurate though . There was a poor woman on the news desperate for her cafe to open and almost begging Sturgeon to just open up now. But she doesnt give a flying f&&&

As usual you totally ignore the point and just go on another anti-snp rant. Pubs open for outdoor drinking in England; great news. Pubs open for outdoor drinking in Scotland; terrible news. 

[Cruyff]

36 minutes ago, Smithee said:

He's clearly saying that he prefers a cautious approach, you need to have a word if that's what you're reading into it mate

Correct. I actually thought he was taking the piss because he came back with that. 

[XB52]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

A successful one too. They are linked, they are signatories to a claim that wants to lower the age of consent and decriminalise sex with children. Did you read the article?

To save me bothering see SE16 reply below. Your hatred of the snp/love for AS is blinding you and is showing you in a very poor light

[Justin Z]

On 13/04/2021 at 11:28, Malinga the Swinga said:

Deal with the facts, not what might have been. You, I and everyone have no idea of what we would have done if independence had been achieved earlier. It's all hypothetical, as is the current plan.

 

Indeed. What's not hypothetical is what's been lost by Scotland's continued membership in the Union over that period, which was the greater point of the post... and which perhaps unsurprisingly, you chose not to engage with.

 

On 13/04/2021 at 11:28, Malinga the Swinga said:

I don’t want whataboutery as excuse, I know what Westminster is like.

 

It's not whataboutery, nor is it an excuse. It's the reality of the lost potential of the past half century.

 

Fortunately it appears a majority of Scots now both acknowledge that and don't want a part of it any longer.

[Malinga the Swinga]

5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Indeed. What's not hypothetical is what's been lost by Scotland's continued membership in the Union over that period, which was the greater point of the post... and which perhaps unsurprisingly, you chose not to engage with.

 

 

It's not whataboutery, nor is it an excuse. It's the reality of the lost potential of the past half century.

 

Fortunately it appears a majority of Scots now both acknowledge that and don't want a part of it any longer.

You have no idea what Scotland has lost by being part of union for last 50 years. Lost potential my arse. It didn't happen, it never occurred, but you choose, with no factual evidence, to believe that Unicorns and Rainbows would have poured over Scotland and everything would have turned out for the better. It could have been a crippling disaster. We will never know. 

Its the same argument being used now. Trust SNP and everything will be fine. We'll I don't trust them as they have shown nothing to deserve my trust. 

They have ****ed up education, they have ****ed up health, they promised to get rid of Council Tax and they haven't and all they ever do is blame Westminster and the 'Toaries'. FFS, they have been in charge long enough but they take no responsibility for anything that is wrong, but want credit for anything that is good. 

Let's see what election results are, and then if we have referendum, let's see what results are. 

You speak as if its a foregone conclusion independence will win, but the majority of Scots, the ones who think with heads, chose to decline before and there is every chance they will do so again. 

They are called silent majority for a reason. They, and I, don't like being called traitors, Housejocks, Yooninists or a multitude of different names, just because we believe something different than the noisy majority who scream and shout about Freedom. We will take our time, cast our votes, and when result is known, we will accept it, whatever way it falls. Something the Nationalists are incapable of doing. 

[Mars plastic]

11 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

You have no idea what Scotland has lost by being part of union for last 50 years. Lost potential my arse. It didn't happen, it never occurred, but you choose, with no factual evidence, to believe that Unicorns and Rainbows would have poured over Scotland and everything would have turned out for the better. It could have been a crippling disaster. We will never know. 

Its the same argument being used now. Trust SNP and everything will be fine. We'll I don't trust them as they have shown nothing to deserve my trust. 

They have ****ed up education, they have ****ed up health, they promised to get rid of Council Tax and they haven't and all they ever do is blame Westminster and the 'Toaries'. FFS, they have been in charge long enough but they take no responsibility for anything that is wrong, but want credit for anything that is good. 

Let's see what election results are, and then if we have referendum, let's see what results are. 

You speak as if its a foregone conclusion independence will win, but the majority of Scots, the ones who think with heads, chose to decline before and there is every chance they will do so again. 

They are called silent majority for a reason. They, and I, don't like being called traitors, Housejocks, Yooninists or a multitude of different names, just because we believe something different than the noisy majority who scream and shout about Freedom. We will take our time, cast our votes, and when result is known, we will accept it, whatever way it falls. Something the Nationalists are incapable of doing. 

To say this chap gets it would be somewhat of an understatement. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

You have no idea what Scotland has lost by being part of union for last 50 years. Lost potential my arse. It didn't happen, it never occurred, but you choose, with no factual evidence, to believe that Unicorns and Rainbows would have poured over Scotland and everything would have turned out for the better. It could have been a crippling disaster. We will never know. 

Its the same argument being used now. Trust SNP and everything will be fine. We'll I don't trust them as they have shown nothing to deserve my trust. 

They have ****ed up education, they have ****ed up health, they promised to get rid of Council Tax and they haven't and all they ever do is blame Westminster and the 'Toaries'. FFS, they have been in charge long enough but they take no responsibility for anything that is wrong, but want credit for anything that is good. 

Let's see what election results are, and then if we have referendum, let's see what results are. 

You speak as if its a foregone conclusion independence will win, but the majority of Scots, the ones who think with heads, chose to decline before and there is every chance they will do so again. 

They are called silent majority for a reason. They, and I, don't like being called traitors, Housejocks, Yooninists or a multitude of different names, just because we believe something different than the noisy majority who scream and shout about Freedom. We will take our time, cast our votes, and when result is known, we will accept it, whatever way it falls. Something the Nationalists are incapable of doing. 

[Unknown user]

Lold