Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[OmiyaHearts]

12 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Not surprised. It's not just Glaswegians. It's human nature for most people in northern European cultures - congregate, socialise, drink.

 

Closing the pubs was probably the daftest move of many throughout this farce. 

I agree, not just Glaswegians but I imagine with the number of non-foreign students in Glasgow has contributed to high numbers.

 

I loved getting back out to pubs etc when lockdown was lifted and I can genuinely say, every pub I went in had a fantastic set up in terms of cleanliness and safety. Same with restaurants and cafes. I know the huge effort my wife put in to keep her café safe and secure (while at the same time taking and increase in abuse due to track and trace restrictions).

 

Staff were flat out but knew they had to keep going, just to keep a job. 

 

In my opinion, the ScotGov thought it would be easier to sacrifice hospitality staff, as they consider them 'unskilled', which boils my blood. NS & ScotGov don't see these jobs as important and treat hospitality staff as expendable, they can go find another 'unskilled' job. Whereas the reality is pubs and restaurants we're helping the government by keeping people safe. But the Schools and Uni's re-opened and everything went to pot, but instead of blaming education they sacrificed hospitality workers. 

 

It's the schools. It's so obvious, it's unreal that they kept them open.

Edited November 9, 2020 by OmiyaHearts

[redjambo]

Latest 7-day case rates per 100,000 population (https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview)

 

Glasgow City 305.9

S. Lanarkshire 288.0

Renfrewshire 285.9

N. Lanarkshire 267.5

...

West Lothian 180.2

Midlothian 83.3

Edinburgh City 82.3

East Lothian 68.2

...

Edited November 9, 2020 by redjambo

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Sorry, going to have to disagree.  At best they were misleading the public, at worst outright liars.

 

The tier system isn't being applied fairly - it should be applied based on the data without political interference which is going on with Edinburgh.

 

What this appears like is they don't know what they are doing and have lost the plot.

Exactly what’s the use of having this tier system if not used as intended ? 

[Victorian]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

Sorry, going to have to disagree.  At best they were misleading the public, at worst outright liars.

 

The tier system isn't being applied fairly - it should be applied based on the data without political interference which is going on with Edinburgh.

 

It only appears 'unfair' when viewed as a scale that should react to the limited data and analysis one chooses to apply.  When viewed as a less reactive scale then there's no unfairness.  It needs to be understood that changes downwards will only occur in reaction to more than one would wish.  

 

Areas moving down and up too often will ruin it's purpose.  Downward moves will need to meet a tougher criteria.  Sustainability is the key criteria.  

[Victorian]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Exactly what’s the use of having this tier system if not used as intended ? 

 

Misunderstanding it's intention is the root of the complaints.

[AlimOzturk]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

There are a lot of doom and gloom merchants on here today, focusing on the restrictions and levels, when there is the great news about the vaccine!!

 

If a vaccine is coming then it makes restrictions worthwhile, kick the can down the road a wee bit then we’ll be done with them. 
 

Stay positive!!

You are of course correct about the vaccine being good news. However I have become so sceptical of everything the governments do that i simply can’t trust that even with a vaccine they will release us from our collective cages anytime soon. 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

34 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

My view is that tier 3 clearly has quite a wide scope with Edinburgh being right at the lower end and Glasgow being right at the upper end. There's been no significant shift in numbers for either city from 2 weeks ago.

Strange that people spend months berating Sturgeon for being overly draconian yet are now greeting because some parts of the country aren't being hit with the harshest measures possible.

 

As I need to keep repeating, Glasgow has already suffered a local lockdown whereas Edinburgh has not. I know this doesn't fit your agenda but it is an undeniable fact.

So they shouldn't face restrictions because they faced them before. What has that got to do with the hear and now. No wonder their numbers don't change. 

19 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Joviality aside,  what's the point in having restrictions if they're rolled back prematurely?  It needs given a chance to do what's intended to do.  It's bloody obvious that the mindset is only to move areas down a tier if it's very likely to be a sustainable move.  Areas jumping up and down too often will do nothing of any use.

 

An area will only move down the tiers if it can stick.

It's bloody obvious that NS has politics in mind. She is determined to protect her core support heartland and being honest and fair doesn't enter into her thoughts. At least a few journalists are beginning to question her and you can see from the look on her face she isn't happy that people not just accepting her BS. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Malinga the Swinga

[Ray Gin]

"It's just political now" bleet people utterly determined to make it political. 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Unbelievable that you still maintain a 

 

It's bloody obvious that NS has politics in mind. She is determined to protect her core support heartland and being honest and fair doesn't enter into her thoughts. At least a few journalists are beginning to question her and you can see from the look on her face she isn't happy that people not just accepting her BS. 

 

A complete wild goose chase of a notion.  Trying to achieve a pan-Scotland 'success' of managing the emergency will bring much more political capital.  

[Taffin]

I was worried the impact of lockdowns and restrictions would outweigh the effects of the virus. Now I'm worried the future absence of lockdowns and restrictions are going to cause some serious stockholm syndrome 😱

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

I was worried the impact of lockdowns and restrictions would outweigh the effects of the virus. Now I'm worried the future absence of lockdowns and restrictions are going to cause some serious stockholm syndrome 😱

 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

I was worried the impact of lockdowns and restrictions would outweigh the effects of the virus. Now I'm worried the future absence of lockdowns and restrictions are going to cause some serious stockholm syndrome 😱

 

 

 

[AlimOzturk]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

There is light at the end of the tunnel now, have some faith for a few more weeks!!

We will see. 

 

Just now, Ray Gin said:

"It's just political now" bleet people utterly determined to make it political. 

It is ****ing political. Every decision she has  made has been political. Don’t be so completely blinded by loyalty and naive. She is a politician with an agenda to get Scotland independence. She will do everything and anything to get what she wants. Including using this pandemic as a way of gaining popularity. 

[frankblack]

11 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

I agree, not just Glaswegians but I imagine with the number of non-foreign students in Glasgow has contributed to high numbers.

 

I loved getting back out to pubs etc when lockdown was lifted and I can genuinely say, every pub I went in had a fantastic set up in terms of cleanliness and safety. Same with restaurants and cafes. I know the huge effort my wife put in to keep her café safe and secure (while at the same time taking and increase in abuse due to track and trace restrictions).

 

Staff were flat out but knew they had to keep going, just to keep a job. 

 

In my opinion, the ScotGov thought it would be easier to sacrifice hospitality staff, as they consider them 'unskilled', which boils my blood. NS & ScotGov don't see these jobs as important and treat hospitality staff as expendable, they can go find another 'unskilled' job. Whereas the reality is pubs and restaurants we're helping the government by keeping people safe. But the Schools and Uni's re-opened and everything went to pot, but instead of blaming education they sacrificed hospitality workers. 

 

It's the schools. It's so obvious, it's unreal that they kept them open.

 

I've been getting shot down on here for months for saying this but I've believed that Schools and Universities were the perfect breeding ground for the virus.

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

A complete wild goose chase of a notion.  Trying to achieve a pan-Scotland 'success' of managing the emergency will bring much more political capital.  

NS hasn't done anything to bring about a success, its the people who have made sacrifices and continue to do so. Her and her husband continue to keep their noses firmly in the trough and hoover up cash. She works for us, not the other way round. 

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I was worried the impact of lockdowns and restrictions would outweigh the effects of the virus. Now I'm worried the future absence of lockdowns and restrictions are going to cause some serious stockholm syndrome 😱

 

Subscriptions to Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Disney+ are going to take a hit next year.

[Victorian]

Nah.  People are content to sit it out long enough for the recovery to be more sustainable.  Instead of wailing Are we there yet? Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?

[frankblack]

7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

"It's just political now" bleet people utterly determined to make it political. 

 

That is a deflection response if ever I've seen one from you.

[redjambo]

Personally, I don't think that the decision (yet) not to place the Lothians and the West in different tiers is due to political considerations. I reckon it's more due to the desire to have all the Lothians placed in the same tier combined with West Lothian's poorer showing, plus the concern that folk from the west would head east to pubs etc. Tiers are easy to enforce when it's the Western Isles or Moray, far more difficult when areas are closer together.

[frankblack]

Just now, Victorian said:

Nah.  People are content to sit it out long enough for the recovery to be more sustainable.  Instead of wailing Are we there yet? Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?

 

And what then.  Relax it just in time for Christmas then lock us down again?

[AlimOzturk]

 

3 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

There are going to be some who are scared to get back to normal and they will need help. Most will be running outside to feel the relief, like a huge metaphorical mask removal. 

Fwiw even if the vaccine is proven to be successful i very much doubt it’ll be a case of turning the tap back on and letting everyone get back to what was before. 
 

it’ll be done in stages.  

Edited November 9, 2020 by AlimOzturk

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I was worried the impact of lockdowns and restrictions would outweigh the effects of the virus. Now I'm worried the future absence of lockdowns and restrictions are going to cause some serious stockholm syndrome 😱

Pretty sure those who tune into daily broadcasts will find another crisis to latch onto. After all, thousands die each year so plenty of sources for them to get their daily fix of gloom and doom. 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

NS hasn't done anything to bring about a success, its the people who have made sacrifices and continue to do so. Her and her husband continue to keep their noses firmly in the trough and hoover up cash. She works for us, not the other way round. 

 

you'll get an unpleasant surprise come polling day then.

[OmiyaHearts]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I've been getting shot down on here for months for saying this but I've believed that Schools and Universities were the perfect breeding ground for the virus.

It's so blatantly obvious.

[frankblack]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

Pretty sure those who tune into daily broadcasts will find another crisis to latch onto. After all, thousands die each year so plenty of sources for them to get their daily fix of gloom and doom. 

 

Like the looming unemployment crisis? 😬

[AlimOzturk]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

you'll get an unpleasant surprise come polling day then.

Easy when you have a hard core support who will support her no matter how shite a job she does. 
 

 

[Victorian]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

And what then.  Relax it just in time for Christmas then lock us down again?

 

I think it's all to do with sustainability.  It's extremely obvious that they want to avoid the situation of areas moving down and then back up.  Especially relatively quickly.  

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

There are going to be some who are scared to get back to normal and they will need help. Most will be running outside to feel the relief, like a huge metaphorical mask removal. 

 

I've even seen it just with the introduction of 'lockdown' down here already. Wednesday and everyone is cutting about fine in our tier 1 area with their masks on in the shops etc bar a few who've obviously been scared witless. Come Friday and folk have the plastic gloves out again and giving about big 5m body swerves to people. The risk never changed from Wednesday to Friday but people mentality is shot and completely driven by the status of 'lockdown'. I hope people can enjoy the freedom when it comes rather than continue to live in fear.

 

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Subscriptions to Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Disney+ are going to take a hit next year.

 

Tell me about it, mine will all be getting the axe. It's been a great respite though during this time.

[frankblack]

Just now, AlimOzturk said:

Easy when you have a hard core support who will support her no matter how shite a job she does. 
 

 

 

There might be enough switching away after the way they have been treated to cancel out the nationalist majority at Holyrood.

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Personally, I don't think that the decision (yet) not to place the Lothians and the West in different tiers is due to political considerations. I reckon it's more due to the desire to have all the Lothians placed in the same tier combined with West Lothian's poorer showing, plus the concern that folk from the west would head east to pubs etc. Tiers are easy to enforce when it's the Western Isles or Moray, far more difficult when areas are closer together.

If that is the case, then why design the system in first place. 

[Dazo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

I think it's all to do with sustainability.  It's extremely obvious that they want to avoid the situation of areas moving down and then back up.  Especially relatively quickly.  

 
If you believe that’s the case the 2 week review dates are pointless then. 

[redjambo]

8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I've been getting shot down on here for months for saying this but I've believed that Schools and Universities were the perfect breeding ground for the virus.

 

Have you? I've expressed my opinion often on here that one of the most biggest mistakes made by the government was to allow students to physically go back to colleges and universities rather than have distance learning, where possible, and the only thing I've seen on here is almost universal agreement on that point.

Edited November 9, 2020 by redjambo

[redjambo]

DP.

Edited November 9, 2020 by redjambo

[theshed]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Fwiw even if the vaccine is proven to be successful i very much doubt it’ll be a case of turning the tap back on and letting everyone get back to what was before. 
 

it’ll be done in stages.  

Sturgeon will be gutted at hearing this vaccine news. They will have to drag her from these lunch time briefings 

 

Whatever happens regards the vaccine we will be last to open up places and only on her terms 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

Easy when you have a hard core support who will support her no matter how shite a job she does. 
 

 

 

Just wait until you see the level of support in the areas that are supposedly being treated unfairly.  

 

Of course,  the naive explanation will be to dismiss it as unquestioning support.  In the absence of anything more substantial,  it will need to do I suppose.

[OmiyaHearts]

3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Easy when you have a hard core support who will support her no matter how shite a job she does. 
 

 

You would have to question the sanity of any hospitality worker or small business owner that votes for SNP next year. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Have you? I've expressed my opinion often on here that one of the most biggest mistakes made by the government was to allow students to physically go back to colleges and universities rather than have distance learning, where possible, and the only thing I've seen on here is almost universal agreement.

 

All I've ever got back were responses claiming no evidence that outbreaks originated in schools.  It is convenient when we don't get the data breaking down the track and trace locations.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

If that is the case, then why design the system in first place. 

 

That is a very good question to which I don't have an answer.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 
If you believe that’s the case the 2 week review dates are pointless then. 

 

Not really.  It's only right that it's under constant review.  Upwards changes will be more reactive to data.  Downwards changes will need to meet a tougher test.  

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Have you? I've expressed my opinion often on here that one of the most biggest mistakes made by the government was to allow students to physically go back to colleges and universities rather than have distance learning, where possible, and the only thing I've seen on here is almost universal agreement.

That's because a lot of government advisors work for Universities and they needed student money to subsidise their obscene wages. Universities and governments couldn't give a shit about students, they just hung them out to take blame. 

Well, that and the even more callous decision to send infected patients to care homes. Government refusing to accept blame for that as well. 

[AlimOzturk]

1 minute ago, OmiyaHearts said:

You would have to question the sanity of any hospitality worker or small business owner that votes for SNP next year. 

Or anyone in the travel industry. These industries have been lambs to the slaughter. 

[theshed]

19 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

So they shouldn't face restrictions because they faced them before. What has that got to do with the hear and now. No wonder their numbers don't change. 

It's bloody obvious that NS has politics in mind. She is determined to protect her core support heartland and being honest and fair doesn't enter into her thoughts. At least a few journalists are beginning to question her and you can see from the look on her face she isn't happy that people not just accepting her BS. 

Get the guy Andrew Neil to ask her a few questions 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Not really.  It's only right that it's under constant review.  Upwards changes will be more reactive to data.  Downwards changes will need to meet a tougher test.  

A test of course that no one is allowed to see or question. System designed on the hood with no transparency or thought. 

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Not really.  It's only right that it's under constant review.  Upwards changes will be more reactive to data.  Downwards changes will need to meet a tougher test.  

 

Isn't any upward shift as likely/unlikely to be representative of a larger trend than any downward shift in numbers?

 

That's an actual question, not a rhetorical one based on my opinion.

[Victorian]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

A test of course that no one is allowed to see or question. System designed on the hood with no transparency or thought. 

 

It's questioned or open to question on a daily basis,  from journalists or in Holyrood.  The full transparency will come to bear come the public inquiries.  The over-arching strategy is obvious and will probably yield success.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

A test of course that no one is allowed to see or question. System designed on the hood with no transparency or thought. 

 

The rationale behind the original placement in tiers was published for each council area (you should find it on the web). It wasn't perfect, but it did show the reasoning behind each decision. I assume and hope that similar reasoning will be published for any decisions made this week.

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, theshed said:

Get the guy Andrew Neil to ask her a few questions 

She won't agree to answer any difficult questions. Much prefers preaching to believers at daily 12.30 service. Same as pet Jason. Goes on football show and gets easy time. If they are asked difficult questions, they lose temper and get threatening. Puerile behaviour from people who believe that we work for them instead of the other way round. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

It's questioned or open to question on a daily basis,  from journalists or in Holyrood.  The full transparency will come to bear come the public inquiries.  The over-arching strategy is obvious and will probably yield success.

 

You don't sound very convincing either.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Isn't any upward shift as likely/unlikely to be representative of a larger trend than any downward shift in numbers?

 

That's an actual question, not a rhetorical one based on my opinion.

 

An upwards shift has to be more reactive to data.  That's an obvious and natural thing.  If numbers are increasing then action needs done immediately.  Downwards moves will always need to pass a different set of tests.  It should be blindingly obvious.

[AlimOzturk]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Just wait until you see the level of support in the areas that are supposedly being treated unfairly.  

 

Of course,  the naive explanation will be to dismiss it as unquestioning support.  In the absence of anything more substantial,  it will need to do I suppose.

People are gullible. She made herself look slightly more competent than a bunch of utter roasters of politicians. I mean it isn’t hard to do when the competition is Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Cummings ect... she is also getting a free ride when considering her competition is that pathetic  turd Richard Leonard and the Tory puppet Ross (where the **** is he btw?) 

 

She has the easiest hot seat in the world. She may as well be running unimposed due to the sheer incompetence of the other Scottish parties.