Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

So those restaurants should have been closed for breaking the rules. The environmental health officers, parking attendants and other council and government staff who were suddenly less busy could have been re-purposed to ensure premises were compliant but no, just **** the lot of them for the greater good. All in it together type pish is hollow as **** if your unemployed with 6 weeks till Christmas. Shameful scapegoating.

I’m not sure if there’s that many to go round the near 4K licence premises and restaurants in Edinburgh for example. 

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’m not sure if there’s that many to go round the near 4K licence premises and restaurants in Edinburgh for example. 

But enough to shut down a fair number of the minority of offenders. I think the message would soon have got round.

 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’m not sure if there’s that many to go round the near 4K licence premises and restaurants in Edinburgh for example. 

I don’t think you’d need to comprehensively cover it. When word went round that a few had been shut for non compliance I’d imagine a helluva lot more would either close till they had measures in place or make sure they complied. 
 

Whether that is true or not, I personally would have liked some sort of enforcement to be attempted while numbers were low. 

[ArcticJambo]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

But enough to shut down a fair number of the minority of offenders. I think the message would soon have got round.

 

This, and it's so obviously the right answer.

[the general]

10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

As someone who works in hospitality I can assure we did almost everything we could at my work, nothing is full proof though and you’re relying on staff and customers to do the right things. 
Ive been in other establishments and not been impressed with their measures, and heard horror stories of other pubs. 
I have no real problem with them being closed at this stage. 

 

I would not eat or drink in any place that was not 100pc safe

[Weakened Offender]

26 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Too many for what? It’s peoples jobs at stake here. Broad strokes on one hand and micromanagement on the other is clearly double standards. 

 

People's jobs are at stake everywhere. I know a fair few folk who have been paid off, a couple very close to me. I understand that. 

 

A lot of pubs didn't give a flying **** though, and that's an unfortunate fact. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Weakened Offender said:

 

People's jobs are at stake everywhere. I know a fair few folk who have been paid off, a couple very close to me. I understand that. 

 

A lot of pubs didn't give a flying **** though, and that's an unfortunate fact. 

Couldn’t agree more. Not sure what industry you work in but if your company was forced to close because of the non compliant behaviour of other companies and indirectly because there was no attempt to enforce regulations, would you be ok with that?

[Nucky Thompson]

It won't be much longer until we are able to go out without obeying rules and restrictions.

 

Hopefully loads of pubs can survive for a bit longer. 

At least the Furlough extension will have helped

[Governor Tarkin]

22 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’m not sure if there’s that many to go round the near 4K licence premises and restaurants in Edinburgh for example. 

 

No problem. It'll be 2k by the new year and easier to police.

[Weakened Offender]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Couldn’t agree more. Not sure what industry you work in but if your company was forced to close because of the non compliant behaviour of other companies and indirectly because there was no attempt to enforce regulations, would you be ok with that?

 

No, I wouldn't.

 

I don't know how you enforce regulations on such a grand scale though. What would you suggest? 

 

There was so many different industries and sectors being asked to comply with new and in some cases complicated guidance, you need businesses to be responsible. 

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

No, I wouldn't.

 

I don't know how you enforce regulations on such a grand scale though. What would you suggest? 

 

There was so many different industries and sectors being asked to comply with new and in some cases complicated guidance, you need businesses to be responsible. 

I’d suggest trying to find a way of enforcement before sacrificing an entire industry. Made a few comments on it in an earlier post. 
 

If I was sending thousands of people to the dole queue I’d be damn sure I knew that I had done everything I could to avoid it.  The lack of empathy because it’s happening to someone else is quite a widespread attitude as well 

Edited November 9, 2020 by GinRummy

[Bongo 1874]

What are people's thoughts then?, do they think we can go back to how things were. 

 

Can covid 19 be eradicated?. 

 

Do you have faith and trust in the governments?. 

[The Mighty Thor]

To contextualise the hospitality discussion the number of pupils self isolating in Scotland trebled last week to over 23,000 along with more than 2,000 teachers who are also self isolating. 

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

It’s gone a bit quiet in here, could you just go to the pub as group of mates and sit at the same table with very little maybe even no social distancing and it was considered safe because you didn’t mix with other tables?

 

You weren't supposed to, but that's what people did.

 

 

[the general]

16 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

People's jobs are at stake everywhere. I know a fair few folk who have been paid off, a couple very close to me. I understand that. 

 

A lot of pubs didn't give a flying **** though, and that's an unfortunate fact. 

 

I see people saying that but is anyone willing to name and shame? Every pub i was in was scrupulous in observing the rules

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, the general said:

 

I see people saying that but is anyone willing to name and shame? Every pub i was in was scrupulous in observing the rules

 

Aren't you the poster who was asking about beer gardens in Tier 2 Fife when the pubs in Tier 3 Edinburgh shut? 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Weakened Offender

[Ray Gin]

 

7 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

What are people's thoughts then?, do they think we can go back to how things were. 

 

Can covid 19 be eradicated?. 

 

Do you have faith and trust in the governments?. 

 

If this vaccine is as effective as it sounds, things will hopefully be pretty much normal again by the summer, provided they have enough vaccine to go around.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, the general said:

 

I see people saying that but is anyone willing to name and shame? Every pub i was in was scrupulous in observing the rules

Same as me, although was only in 2. Same in all restaurants as well. I have If I hadn't felt safe, I would have left. Always rumour and innuendo about nameless pubs &  restaurants. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

12 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

What are people's thoughts then?, do they think we can go back to how things were. 

 

Can covid 19 be eradicated?. 

 

Do you have faith and trust in the governments?. 

Given the number of people who require vaccination, it will take months/years to inoculate all those who require it. 

 

No, we can't eradicate it, just live with it. 

 

No, don't trust any of these politicians, especially Scottish and UK ones we currently have. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Malinga the Swinga

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Same as me, although was only in 2. Same in all restaurants as well. I have If I hadn't felt safe, I would have left. Always rumour and innuendo about nameless pubs &  restaurants. 

 

We've went from having a pop at people for having a lack of empathy regarding job losses in the pub sector to calling them out for not grassing up the ones that didn't give a **** in about 6 posts. 😁

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

If this vaccine is as effective as it sounds, things will hopefully be pretty much normal again by the summer, provided they have enough vaccine to go around.

The govt allegedly have a contract for 40m doses. It takes 2 per person to be effective, so potentially 20m people could be vaccinated. Scaling up will take a long time as will the infrastructure to administer. You'll be lucky if the initial 40m doses are in play by this time next year.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, Weakened Offender said:

 

We've went from having a pop at people for having a lack of empathy regarding job losses in the pub sector to calling them out for not grassing up the ones that didn't give a **** in about 6 posts. 😁

Don't want them grassed up, authorities could and should have policed it properly but they took easy way out. Same as government doing now. Lazy ineffectual use of system they designed. 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Any idea of the ages of the pupils and how many isolating actually tested positive?

I'd reckon they'll be aged between 5 and 18. The article (BBC/HERALD) did not give numbers of infections I'm afraid.

 

Over 25,000 people isolating from one sector? They should shut them down as they're clearly not following the covid protocols. 

 

Of course SG could publicly release the data of outbreak/infection by setting and put all this to bed.

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

School prelims in place in next month or so. Schools have been told to take them seriously in case they are needed again as 'evidence'  of pupils work as exams still may be cancelled. That means exams being based on about 3 months of work and yet some want the schools to close. That will penalise future generations, especially in poorer areas, who have seen their educational prospects decimated through poor investment by govt for years. 

While some teachers will do a lot of online work, others won't. What about kids who don't have online facilities. Do we just ignore them and move on? Not easy but should we not protect younger people with years ahead of them as priority? 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The govt allegedly have a contract for 40m doses. It takes 2 per person to be effective, so potentially 20m people could be vaccinated. Scaling up will take a long time as will the infrastructure to administer. You'll be lucky if the initial 40m doses are in play by this time next year.

 

Were saying on the news that Pfizer can provide 10m doses by the end of this year.

The 40m on order from Pfizer is just part of some 340m doses the UK has on order with several other potential vaccine makers, of course one or two may never come to market, so that number can not be relied on.

https://www.ft.com/content/1e928cb6-57fb-4384-9c2c-9000c44eacc0

 

The Pfizer vaccine seemingly can be produced much quicker than traditional vaccines can, it's something to do with the type of vaccine it is, so they were saying on the news.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, the general said:

 

I would not eat or drink in any place that was not 100pc safe

How can anywhere be 100% sure that it’s safe, any customer could unwittingly bring it in and spread it, look at the guy in Aberdeen who got the whole city shut down. 
Do you have some military Infra red glasses that shows Covid on surfaces or in the air General?

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Brian Dundas said:

In my scenario they are all from different households. 
 

Also it was obvious when I was out that they were from different households. 

Fair enough, if you’re asked and you lie then that’s on you, the establishment have done their bit by asking. If they don’t ask and I know plenty of places who don’t then is it any wonder hospitality can’t serve alcohol?
The amount of times we heard “ ah dinnae huv tae dae that in other pubs”, funnily enough bring told to **** off back there doesn’t always go down well. Cuntstomers eh. 

 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Brian Dundas said:

It’s gone a bit quiet in here, could you just go to the pub as group of mates and sit at the same table with very little maybe even no social distancing and it was considered safe because you didn’t mix with other tables?

 

Not that safe sounding to me, but I might have it all wrong. 
 

Hopefully we will be back to normal soon. 

Most pubs would have some sort of screens in them, separating you and your mates from other groups. If they were one of the ones taking bookings they should ask if your group fitted in with the restrictions at that time. Again if not then they can’t complain about being closed. 

[Pasquale for King]

52 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Don't want them grassed up, authorities could and should have policed it properly but they took easy way out. Same as government doing now. Lazy ineffectual use of system they designed. 

There’s just not the people to do it, Edinburgh Council has about 3 LSOs who go round pubs checking them out. They would’ve had to have thrown a lot of money at it to do it properly. 

[the general]

21 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

How can anywhere be 100% sure that it’s safe, any customer could unwittingly bring it in and spread it, look at the guy in Aberdeen who got the whole city shut down. 
Do you have some military Infra red glasses that shows Covid on surfaces or in the air General?

 

Och you know what i meant .. as safe as anything can be this weather.

[Francis Albert]

BBC news leads with an advert for Pfizer with someone from Pfizer claiming this is the biggest medical breakthrough in a hundred years.

I mean ... come on!

[Weakened Offender]

17 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Most pubs would have some sort of screens in them, separating you and your mates from other groups. If they were one of the ones taking bookings they should ask if your group fitted in with the restrictions at that time. Again if not then they can’t complain about being closed.  

 

I think I've been in around 20 pubs since they opened back up and I've seen screens in two. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, the general said:

 

Och you know what i meant .. as safe as anything can be this weather.

The thing is you can’t really tell until you are in somewhere, I couldn’t relax when I was in socialising at my work because of noticing stuff that everyone was doing wrong. The more drunk I got I would forget to do the right thing too, chatting to other groups etc. I totally understand why places that sell alcohol can’t at the moment. 

[Francis Albert]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

There’s just not the people to do it, Edinburgh Council has about 3 LSOs who go round pubs checking them out. They would’ve had to have thrown a lot of money at it to do it properly. 

9 months after the virus surfaced and 6 months after the first lockdown  could the Council maybe have employed or redeployed a few more to protect the hospitalty sector  one of if not the biggest industries  in the city?

Edited November 9, 2020 by Francis Albert

[N Lincs Jambo]

Quick reminder: vaccine is supposedly 90% effective. Immune system currently 99.8% effective. Wake up, smell the coffee, get yer masks off, stop shiting yourself over made up nonsense if you actually, genuinely, want things to return to how they were before. There is absolutely no chance of that happening by following the narrative.

 

BJ has already admitted PCR tests show false positives are at 93%. Christ sakes are you so committed to the narrative as to want to dismiss what even the Downing St toad is saying in what for him is a very rare occasion of telling the truth??

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

9 months after the virus surfaced and 6 months after the first lock could the Council maybe have employed or redeployed a few more to protect the hospitality sector  one of if not the biggest industries  in the city?

 

[Taffin]

The guy on the BBC news just said the vaccine would achieve herd immunity. I thought herd immunity was a no go with over 99% surviving it without a vaccine. Why does a 90% successful vaccine now make herd immunity possible?

[N Lincs Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

The guy on the BBC news just said the vaccine would achieve herd immunity. I thought herd immunity was a no go with over 99% surviving it without a vaccine. Why does a 90% successful vaccine now make herd immunity possible?

It’s not supposed to make sense Taffin, none of it is. If you doubt me just look at all the official reactions over the last 8 months and ask yourself which ones did??

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

It’s not supposed to make sense Taffin, none of it is. If you doubt me just look at all the official reactions over the last 8 months and ask yourself which ones did??

 

I'd just like honesty and not to be treated with kid gloves. Yes, I'm sure some of the truths may be unpalatable etc, but let us process that ourselves. I appreciate that previously a poster advised that naturally not enough people would get it to deliver herd immunity, which makes sense. But that also  then makes me question how infectious it really is if that's the case, or how giving a vaccine to a relatively small number of people will now bump that up enough. 

 

I just don't know what to think or believe any more. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Taffin

[graygo]

18 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

Quick reminder: vaccine is supposedly 90% effective. Immune system currently 99.8% effective. Wake up, smell the coffee, get yer masks off, stop shiting yourself over made up nonsense if you actually, genuinely, want things to return to how they were before. There is absolutely no chance of that happening by following the narrative.

 

BJ has already admitted PCR tests show false positives are at 93%. Christ sakes are you so committed to the narrative as to want to dismiss what even the Downing St toad is saying in what for him is a very rare occasion of telling the truth??

 

Are you suggesting that a vaccine needs to have a success rate greater than 99.8% to be better than having no vaccine? Seriously?

 

As for your last paragraph, it wasn't BJ who it was claimed said that, it was DR and it was made up shite. A bit like your post.

 

https://fullfact.org/online/dominic-raab-93-percent/

[N Lincs Jambo]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

I'd just like honesty. I appreciate that previously a poster advised that naturally not enough people would get it to deliver her immunity. But that also makes me question how infectious it really is then, or how giving a vaccine to a relatively small number of people will now bump that up enough. 

 

I just don't know what to think or believe any more. 

No worries m8. There’s a whole lot of misinformation going on. Imo research is the best remedy. I could point you on the way but that would show my own personal bias. Best if you deep hard and deep into each position and then come to your own conclusion 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

No worries m8. There’s a whole lot of misinformation going on. Imo research is the best remedy. I could point you on the way but that would show my own personal bias. Best if you deep hard and deep into each position and then come to your own conclusion 

 

Let me try to explain what you seem to be missing.

 

In Scotland 74,355 have tested positive and 3,040 of them have died.

 

With a vaccine with a 90% success rate that 74,355 would be less than 7,500 and the death number would be about 300.

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Using your figures that’s 100,000 lives saved in the UK. 1m hospital beds freed up. 

 

He's not getting it.

[Pasquale for King]

34 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I think I've been in around 20 pubs since they opened back up and I've seen screens in two. 

That’s awful, and why they’re currently closed. I’ve been in around 6 and apart from Tynecastle and Akva I wasn’t that impressed with measures put in place. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Are you suggesting that a vaccine needs to have a success rate greater than 99.8% to be better than having no vaccine? Seriously?

 

As for your last paragraph, it wasn't BJ who it was claimed said that, it was DR and it was made up shite. A bit like your post.

 

https://fullfact.org/online/dominic-raab-93-percent/

No mate, I’m doing the simple maths. It’s just shy of 11pm so on my phone not my computer (so can’t do links) but according to WHO stats deaths to infections is at about 0.16% with about 10% of the world’s population having been infected (that is from Dr Michael Ryan of the WHO in October). 
 

I’ll post the links in the morning. 
 

I will also post the vid of BJ stating 93% false positives which, as you correctly state, had previously been announced by Deputy PM Dominic Raab.

 

Btw, do me a favour and don’t use FullFact as a credible resource. Bought and paid for for this very purpose 

[Pasquale for King]

35 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

9 months after the virus surfaced and 6 months after the first lockdown  could the Council maybe have employed or redeployed a few more to protect the hospitalty sector  one of if not the biggest industries  in the city?

I’m sure they could’ve but you’re talking about a lot more people to go round all the licensed premises checking their measures, that weren’t actually laws just guidelines so I’m not sure what they could’ve done anyway? 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

No mate, I’m doing the simple maths. It’s just shy of 11pm so on my phone not my computer (so can’t do links) but according to WHO stats deaths to infections is at about 0.16% with about 10% of the world’s population having been infected (that is from Dr Michael Ryan of the WHO in October). 
 

I’ll post the links in the morning. 
 

I will also post the vid of BJ stating 93% false positives which, as you correctly state, had previously been announced by Deputy PM Dominic Raab.

 

Btw, do me a favour and don’t use FullFact as a credible resource. Bought and paid for for this very purpose 

 

Deaths to infections rate will not change with a vaccine, treatments do that.

A vaccine lowers the number of infections so obviously the number of deaths also falls. 

I say obviously, maybe it isn't.

 

I don't know who pays FullFact or why.

 

How about this report in the Lancet which estimates between 0.8 and 4%.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext

 

The current rate of operational false-positive swab tests in the UK is unknown; preliminary estimates show it could be somewhere between 0·8% and 4·0%

 

This, as it says is an estimate as there is no way of knowing for sure.

 

[Francis Albert]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

I’m sure they could’ve but you’re talking about a lot more people to go round all the licensed premises checking their measures, that weren’t actually laws just guidelines so I’m not sure what they could’ve done anyway? 

No need to go around all the licensed premises as I have already posted. Go around say 100 and close the 10 or 20 that are not complying and the message would quickly get to the rest of the licensed premises. 

Alternatively don't bother and just shut them all down.

In.my part of the world I'd say 80% were compliant with the rules or guidelines.p

[graygo]

10 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

No mate, I’m doing the simple maths. It’s just shy of 11pm so on my phone not my computer (so can’t do links) but according to WHO stats deaths to infections is at about 0.16% with about 10% of the world’s population having been infected (that is from Dr Michael Ryan of the WHO in October). 
 

I’ll post the links in the morning. 
 

I will also post the vid of BJ stating 93% false positives which, as you correctly state, had previously been announced by Deputy PM Dominic Raab.

 

Btw, do me a favour and don’t use FullFact as a credible resource. Bought and paid for for this very purpose 

 

How about Reuters?

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-testing-idUSKBN27525R

 

Huffington Post?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/false-positives-coronavirus_uk_5f686da4c5b6de79b677e909

[coconut doug]

2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Same as me, although was only in 2. Same in all restaurants as well. I have If I hadn't felt safe, I would have left. Always rumour and innuendo about nameless pubs &  restaurants. 

 

I don't think it is sensible to  name pubs but I was in Leith and there had been no attempt to protect their customers. However if you want to believe it's rumour and innuendo, that's up to you.