Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[graygo]

10 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

So is this the new thing then, a positive test isn't a case? 

 

A test can pick up traces of the virus that could be up to 47 days old and non-infectious, I would not class that as a case. Others do, as is their right.

 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectious-positive-pcr-test-result-covid-19/

[Governor Tarkin]

16 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

He's actually becoming more of an attention seeking dullard than that Tarkin fella. 🙄

 

Hiya Weakened.

Hiya pal. ✋

[graygo]

25 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Taking the piss out of dead people, classy

It was a bit flippant and I shouldn't have posted it.

[graygo]

25 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Sums the twit up

 

Not "acting like" now?

[Robbofan99]

Shes mad.  Shes talking just now about how we got the virus " really down to low levels " in " the summer"...Yes that's true.  But she forgot to mention the heavy price we paid for it with a full lockdown for part of the summer and businesses closed , etc . 

[redjambo]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

As trolling goes it's not clever at all, but his ability to stay in character for so long is certainly admirable. Unless...

 

Ah yes, that would be a better description if it, Governor. The cleverness is in the character construction and development. Irritating all the same though, and I say that as someone who is generally on the same side of the train tracks as he is regarding the pandemic.

[Governor Tarkin]

8 minutes ago, Costanza said:

On the other treatments,  cancer screenings etc. are the same issues happening abroad for other countries who went into lockdown?

 

i.e. is it an inevitable impact of lockdown or a reflection on the public health systems in the UK?

 

It certainly seems worrying the backlogs,  particularly with cancer treatments, so you would hope the UK and Scottish governments would be making this a top priority to try and get through the backlog,although very easy for me to say that.

 

I don't know the answer to that, sorry, but in countries with a larger private healthcare system things may well be different. It's not comparable in terms of seriousness but when I was at the dentist for a checkup the other day he said he couldn't do the regular scale and polish as it was on the NHS forbidden list but he could offer it to me privately there and then for a hundred quid or so.

 

Hopefully these policies are under constant review and people don't suffer unnecessarily.

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

A test can pick up traces of the virus that could be up to 47 days old and non-infectious, I would not class that as a case. Others do, as is their right.

 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectious-positive-pcr-test-result-covid-19/

 

I agree with you that we should be developing better tests in that respect, ones that only produce a positive result for live virus (and I hope we are doing exactly that). However, based on precaution, it is probably better to err on the side of false positives than false negatives. It's certainly not a perfect situation by any means.

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I don't watch the briefings often, but I have seen this acknowledged on many many occasions that I have caught bits if it

 

Maybe she needs to start doing more. 2 a day? 

[Governor Tarkin]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

I say that as someone who is generally on the same side of the train tracks as he is regarding the pandemic.

 

Tied to the train tracks would be a more fitting position for JiH imo.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

There's also a significant minority of pro/keen cyclists who have done their own research and have found irregularities in the stats used to encourage the use of helmets. 

 

Also, I'm barking mad, so any head knock might actually improve things.

A load of nonsense 

Like I said any sensible person would wear a helmet when cycling 

 

[Robbofan99]

Well done to that woman  at the briefing who's the health secretary ?  She explained clearly about treatments and spoke optimistically about this.  This is what people need to hear not scaremongering stuff about what might happen.  Thats all maybe and possibles. 

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Yes, but given we are using the word "case" in a particular way to report the statistics for this particular epidemic, and the use of that word is not intended to mislead, it would be stupid to argue semantics. That sort of waste of time is more suited to others, graygo - you surely have the intelligence to counter the Scottish government's advice, and our approach to the pandemic, rather than getting sucked in to Trump-like meme territory.

 

It's a comfort blanket for me, if someone says "there's 500 cases" my immediate thought is "how many are infectious?".  It's maybe selfish but that is the number that matters to me.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Tied to the train tracks would be a more fitting position imo.

 

Wearing a helmet or not?

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

Sure she could fit in three if she really tried

 

She can fit in more than three if the recent rumours are to be believed.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

There's also a significant minority of pro/keen cyclists who have done their own research and have found irregularities in the stats used to encourage the use of helmets. 

 

Also, I'm barking mad, so any head knock might actually improve things.

I'm a bit late to the party here but you falling off your bike and scrambling your own brains doesn't affect my health in the slightest. I'm not seeing the equivalence with wearing a face covering in a time of  global pandemic? 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Wearing a helmet or not?

Don’t encourage him mate

[Robbofan99]

18 minutes ago, redjambo said:

I think it would be very difficult to split the stats up into the severity of symptoms. I personally would prefer to know more information about cases, particularly those in my local area, as they happen. Are they in care homes, among students, age ranges, symptoms, etc. That way I would be able to make better decisions for my safety and the safety of my family. It's a good point that you make in that respect, that greater information is useful.

Completely agree. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Wearing a helmet or not?

 

Helmet exposed.

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I agree with you that we should be developing better tests in that respect, ones that only produce a positive result for live virus (and I hope we are doing exactly that). However, based on precaution, it is probably better to err on the side of false positives than false negatives. It's certainly not a perfect situation by any means.

 

I should add that I am following the rules/guidelines to the letter regardless of how many "cases" there are, I'm just an opinionated arsehole at times 

[Bull's-eye]

6 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Tied to the train tracks would be a more fitting position for JiH imo.

 

That's outrageous mate, absolutely outrageous.

 

Do you realise how many people that would effect going about their daily business, late trains, cancelled trains, it's just not on. Unless trains run overnight? 

[redjambo]

Just now, graygo said:

 

It's a comfort blanket for me, if someone says "there's 500 cases" my immediate thought is "how many are infectious?".  It's maybe selfish but that is the number that matters to me.

 

Fair enough. I don't want to take anything away from your comfort blanket but those are only the cases which have been identified - there will be others going round who are Covid-positive but due to symptoms, are infectious and don't know it. So the way I approach it is that "500 cases" is just a figure. As long as we try to keep testing and reporting as stable as possible, it's the *changes* in the stats that concern me. If we have a sudden, or worse sustained, rise in cases then that means something is awry. If it adds anything to your comfort blanket, however, I personally concentrate on my local council area infection stats (available on the Travelling Tabby site) - it doesn't matter if there are 500 cases nationally if there is a sustained level of low stats for my area. I still feel that the approach to the coronavirus should be more locally-focussed than it currently is. Of course, ignore that advice at the moment if you live in the Glasgow area.

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I should add that I am following the rules/guidelines to the letter regardless of how many "cases" there are, I'm just an opinionated arsehole at times 

 

I didn't doubt it.

 

We're all opinionated arseholes on here, graygo. That's what makes the conversations interesting.

[Robbofan99]

15 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Not long ago,  you were one of the people ridiculing others for saying we had to wait and see,  etc.     Is it allowed now then?

Yeah but that was  3 plus weeks ago ( ive just checked ) and still no massive deaths rates like March / April or even infections.  

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Robbofan99 said:

Yeah but that was  3 plus weeks ago ( ive just checked ) and still no massive deaths rates like March / April or even infections.  

 

7 today mate, so heading in the wrong direction.

 

Boy two doors down from me has just tested positive so that's the first person I actually know who has it. He's got a 4 week old baby in the house. Fingers crossed they're all ok.

[Robbofan99]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

7 today mate, so heading in the wrong direction.

 

Boy two doors down from me has just tested positive so that's the first person I actually know who has it. He's got a 4 week old baby in the house. Fingers crossed they're all ok.

I've known a few people who have had it. 

[Governor Tarkin]

11 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

That's outrageous mate, absolutely outrageous.

 

Do you realise how many people that would effect going about their daily business, late trains, cancelled trains, it's just not on. Unless trains run overnight? 

 

Worth it imo.

 

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Yeah but that was  3 plus weeks ago ( ive just checked ) and still no massive deaths rates like March / April or even infections.  

 

Righto.   So it is allowed now then?   To wait and see how things progress.    Just checking 'cos it was ridiculed before.    

 

Sound.

[Robbofan99]

There were 15 people in intensive care yesterday and 15 today. So  i assume the 7 deaths were from care homes or in houses? 

[CavySlaveJambo]

2 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

There were 15 people in intensive care yesterday and 15 today. So  i assume the 7 deaths were from care homes or in houses? 

Or people being admitted to ICU. 

[Taffin]

51 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Governments make decisions that people can credibly say are having bad consequences for others.   Economic consequences,  businesses and jobs.   Health consequences for non-CV illnesses.    Individual people playing their part in reasonable social distancing aren't causing harm to others.    Opting out does.    The cooperation or non cooperation of individuals has a completely different set of consequences to that resulting from governmental policies.

 

In short,   a widespread societal effort is required.   Opting out on the basis of the government getting stuff wrong is a misplaced notion.

 

I'm only saying why people are likely to be behaving like that. It's not acceptable to you and others to not wear a mask/socially distance as it may have health implications for others but it's okay to drive a car, order shopping online and take flights despite air pollution causing 800,000 deaths per year in Europe?

 

It's the inconsistency that's hard to fathom. Why is a widespread societal effort required for covid deaths but not pollution deaths? Is it only right to try to reduce those deaths if the government tells you to? Do you do any of the above (fly, drive, order online?) If so, are you opting out of some moral/societal duty or do you only feel you need to 'shoulder the burden' when the government asked you to?

Edited September 30, 2020 by Taffin

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm only saying why people are likely to be behaving like that. It's not acceptable to you and others to not wear a mask/socially distance as it may have health implications for others but it's okay to drive a car, order shopping online and take flights despite air pollution causing 800,000 deaths per year in Europe?

 

It's the inconsistency that's hard to fathom. Why is a widespread societal effort required for covid deaths but not pollution deaths? Is it only right to try to reduce those deaths if the government tells you to? Do you do any of the above (fly, drive, order online?) If so, are you opting out of some moral/societal duty or do you only feel you need to 'shoulder the burden' when the government asked you to?

 

What you're saying is not without merit but they're hardly comparible in terms of an immediate response.    Some of what you're saying are already issues that people do care about and are trying very hard to address.

[Robbofan99]

25 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Righto.   So it is allowed now then?   To wait and see how things progress.    Just checking 'cos it was ridiculed before.    

 

Sound.

Is it allowed if only to illustrate and prove your predictions were wrong. 

[Robbofan99]

1 minute ago, Robbofan99 said:

Is it allowed if only to illustrate and prove your predictions were wrong. 

and ofcourse it can work the other way too. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Robbofan99 said:

Is it allowed if only to illustrate and prove your predictions were wrong. 

 

Right.   Ok.    So it wasn't allowed to say we should wait and see if the ICU and deaths numbers climbed.    But now it is allowed to wait and see if they do not climb after all,   in order to debunk the idea that we should have waited to see if the numbers climbed.

 

Cheers.   Got it now.

[Taffin]

11 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

What you're saying is not without merit but they're hardly comparible in terms of an immediate response.    Some of what you're saying are already issues that people do care about and are trying very hard to address.

 

Why are they not comparable in terms of an immediate response? 

 

A similar amount of people will die from Covid as air pollution in Europe this year. Why does covid require an immediate response but the other doesn't? 

 

If we all acted 'altruistically', rather than selfishly, and with disregard for people's jobs and social lives as we are doing for covid we could slash air pollution and the accompanying deaths over night. In fact, if we care about saving lives as a de facto must then I'd argue given that air pollution isn't contagious we'd be better focusing our aims/efforts/resources on that instead as we'd likely nett out with more lives saved per annum as it's long hanging fruit to solve. We know the solution, but selfishness and economy prevent it...yet that's okay in this instance it seems.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Taffin

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

No worries, Thor. Another poster raised the helmet analogy (oo-er!) last night. Just a wee tangent.

Pages to catch up on, scan reading and limited intelligence. I must've fell off my bike as a kid 😉

[Governor Tarkin]

38 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Hopefully they are all ok in a few days, it is a worry though.

 

Says he felt shit on Monday so didn't go in to work and went for a test yesterday despite feeling a lot better. Got a shock when it came back positive. Wee cough and the sniffles today, his Mrs and the baby are tip top so far.

 

This thing's going to rip through all of us at some point. 😣

[Adam_the_legend]

4 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

As a big fatty former smoker that is a worry. 

the odds are still well in your favour tbf. 

[heartstastic]

In regards to the few posts above, an interesting read.

 

https://dreddymd.com/2018/03/10/louis-pasteur-vs-antoine-bechamp-know-the-true-causes-of-disease/

[Enzo Chiefo]

34 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Why are they not comparable in terms of an immediate response? 

 

A similar amount of people will die from Covid as air pollution in Europe this year. Why does covid require an immediate response but the other doesn't? 

 

If we all acted 'altruistically', rather than selfishly, and with disregard for people's jobs and social lives as we are doing for covid we could slash air pollution and the accompanying deaths over night. In fact, if we care about saving lives as a de facto must then I'd argue given that air pollution isn't contagious we'd be better focusing our aims/efforts/resources on that instead as we'd likely nett out with more lives saved per annum as it's long hanging fruit to solve. We know the solution, but selfishness and economy prevent it...yet that's okay in this instance it seems.

And as, based on weekly figures in England, flu deaths are running at 10 times the rate of Covid deaths, why have we never masked-up, socially distanced or locked down to prevent the spread of flu, hospitals being "overwhelmed " or to save lives?? There is something that simply does not add up, in the reaction and response to Covid. The public inquiry will be interesting. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

7 today mate, so heading in the wrong direction.

 

Boy two doors down from me has just tested positive so that's the first person I actually know who has it. He's got a 4 week old baby in the house. Fingers crossed they're all ok.

Exactly why we must all take it seriously 

[Robbofan99]

5 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

The real irony is I gave up smoking the week before lockdown as I thought this lung disease thing could be bad for me, I should've lost weight instead

Around 47% of those who have died of Covid have been defined as obese.  Smoking apparently helps in the short term but then the Big c always catching up eventually. May as well be as depressing as some others on here as apparently we are all gonna get the Covid. 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, heartstastic said:

In regards to the few posts above, an interesting read.

 

https://dreddymd.com/2018/03/10/louis-pasteur-vs-antoine-bechamp-know-the-true-causes-of-disease/

 

Yeah, and here's him talking about how 5g makes covid worse. He's a snake oil ****, encouraging people to link to his page for advertising revenue. 

 

https://dreddymd.com/2020/04/09/can-5g-exposure-alter-the-structure-and-function-of-hemoglobin-causing-coronavirus-patients-to-die-from-oxygen-deprivation/

 

No matter what you believe there's some radge with a BSc out there who'll back you up for the price of your click, and this guy's one of them. His sources for the article you posted are Wikipedia and a blank website with links and nothing more FFS.

 

Pseudoscience bollocks.

[Governor Tarkin]

16 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

The real irony is I gave up smoking the week before lockdown as I thought this lung disease thing could be bad for me, I should've lost weight instead

 

Don't worry, Brian, there's time yet. If you die of covid you'll lose plenty of weight then.

 

10 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Exactly why we must all take it seriously 

 

Everything should be taken seriously, mate, except for my reply to Brian above.

[Taffin]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And as, based on weekly figures in England, flu deaths are running at 10 times the rate of Covid deaths, why have we never masked-up, socially distanced or locked down to prevent the spread of flu, hospitals being "overwhelmed " or to save lives?? There is something that simply does not add up, in the reaction and response to Covid. The public inquiry will be interesting. 

 

I'm not intending to be drawn on some kind of conspiracy or anything.

 

I just find it odd that we've decided people who don't wear masks and social distance are selfish monsters because they are placing others in danger but people who place others in danger by contributing happily to something like air pollution are not viewed in the same light. I'd wager those calling out the people who are against the covid restrictions as selfish and worse all contribute their part to something like air pollution without a hint of recognising their hypocrisy.

 

Contributes to the spread of covid? Selfish 

 

Contributes to air pollution? Who cares

 

This is largely driven by the lack of press coverage over something like the deaths attributable to air pollution. There's no 24 hour news on the topic, no death toll ticker and no measures from government that risk commerce in a serious way.

 

It's no wonder some people struggle to see the merit of shouldering some kind of collective responsibility to others well being, when up until covid, governments, individuals and society have in the main completely turned a blind eye to other 'selfish' behaviours that contribute to similar death tolls.

 

That said, just because we can't (won't) save everybody, it doesn't mean we shouldn't save anybody. It is akin to whataboutery, I accept that, I'm merely trying to profess the reason why some likely don't feel a collective responsibility and why it's silly to label those people as selfish when the people doing the labelling are more than likely doing it themselves...just in another sphere because of how we've all been conditioned to think and live our lives up until this year.

[heartstastic]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Yeah, and here's him talking about how 5g makes covid worse. He's a snake oil ****, encouraging people to link to his page for advertising revenue. 

 

https://dreddymd.com/2020/04/09/can-5g-exposure-alter-the-structure-and-function-of-hemoglobin-causing-coronavirus-patients-to-die-from-oxygen-deprivation/

 

No matter what you believe there's some radge with a BSc out there who'll back you up for the price of your click, and this guy's one of them. His sources for the article you posted are Wikipedia and a blank website with links and nothing more FFS.

 

Pseudoscience bollocks.

You are entilted to your opinion. You do you man.

[AlimOzturk]

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm not intending to be drawn on some kind of conspiracy or anything.

 

I just find it odd that we've decided people who don't wear masks and social distance are selfish monsters because they are placing others in danger but people who place others in danger by contributing happily to something like air pollution are not viewed in the same light. I'd wager those calling out the people who are against the covid restrictions as selfish and worse all contribute their part to something like air pollution without a hint of recognising their hypocrisy.

 

Contributes to the spread of covid? Selfish 

 

Contributes to air pollution? Who cares

 

This is largely driven by the lack of press coverage over something like the deaths attributable to air pollution. There's no 24 hour news on the topic, no death toll ticker and no measures from government that risk commerce in a serious way.

 

It's no wonder some people struggle to see the merit of shouldering some kind of collective responsibility to others well being, when up until covid, governments, individuals and society have in the main completely turned a blind eye to other 'selfish' behaviours that contribute to similar death tolls.

 

That said, just because we can't (won't) save everybody, it doesn't mean we shouldn't save anybody. It is akin to whataboutery, I accept that, I'm merely trying to profess the reason why some likely don't feel a collective responsibility and why it's silly to label those people as selfish when the people doing the labelling are more than likely doing it themselves...just in another sphere because of how we've all been conditioned to think and live our lives up until this year.

 

I suspect that the majority of non-compliers haven't thought about it that deeply, Taffin.

[Norm]

Taffin utterly nailing it the last few pages.