Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Francis Albert]

31 minutes ago, graygo said:

Still no answer to the question.

To be honest I don't know where you are going on this. As I have said I assumed a mask worn "properly" ie as advised is more effective than one worn improperly. As I said I assumed there was some science behind the advice on how to wear the things. In fact I recall a study that showed masks reduced the spread of droplets expelled from the nose and mouth or perhaps some other droplet producing device.  Presumably that was based on the droplets hitting the mask not dispersed freely to air as for example they would be if the mask was improperly worn eg around the chin.

If this doesn't answer your question try rephrasing it rather than just saying it doesn't answer the question. I have tried my best.

 

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, luckydug said:

What do you make of the French government now making masks compulsory everywhere ? 

Makes the UK look carefree 😁

I think it makes the French government look insane.

[doctor jambo]

21 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

What would you do, difficult times with difficult decisions.

shield the vulnerable, keep calm and carry on.

There needs to be pragmatism and realism, not be governed by fear.

This may not go away, nor a solution found for years, if ever.

There is no such thing as "risk free"

you can manage and mitigate risk, but at some point the costs of it outweigh the benefits.

Surgeons in England are running at 50 % capacity- think of the lives lost/pain and misery from that.

All societal decisions have a cost/benefit analysis.

Economic growth extends life expectancy and lower all rate mortality, and the current collapse will shorten lives and cost lives.

Failure to normalise will do immeasurable harm.

Austerity cost 130,000 excess lives.

This will be worse.

[The Internet]

You make 'shield the vulnerable' sound like a really easy thing to do. 

[Don Dan]

Sturgeon, Chief Constable, Prof Leitch on now.

 

0 deaths again👍

Edited August 28, 2020 by Boy Daniel

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

To be honest I don't know where you are going on this. As I have said I assumed a mask worn "properly" ie as advised is more effective than one worn improperly. As I said I assumed there was some science behind the advice on how to wear the things. In fact I recall a study that showed masks reduced the spread of droplets expelled from the nose and mouth or perhaps some other droplet producing device.  Presumably that was based on the droplets hitting the mask not dispersed freely to air as for example they would be if the mask was improperly worn eg around the chin.

If this doesn't answer your question try rephrasing it rather than just saying it doesn't answer the question. I have tried my best.

 

Finally, so you agree that wearing a mask is helpful in preventing the spread of Covid. Why not advocate wearing them properly rather than banging on about how science says they do more harm than good?

 

 

[luckydug]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

Finally, so you agree that wearing a mask is helpful in preventing the spread of Covid. Why not advocate wearing them properly rather than banging on about how science says they do more harm than good?

 

 

There would be no fun in that. 😁 

Enjoys a good debate does Francis. 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

There would be no fun in that. 😁 

Enjoys a good debate does Francis. 

 

Retirement can be a lonely existed.

[Don Dan]

Sturgeon not so subtlety sticking  the boot into Bojo over going back to office  working rather than working from home. She has him on the ropes 🤛🏼

Edited August 28, 2020 by Boy Daniel

[Enzo Chiefo]

15 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Sturgeon not so subtlety sticking  the boot into Bojo over going back to office  working rather than working from home. She has him on the ropes 🤛🏼

But WFH is costing the jobs of those in city centres who rely on  office workers;  retail workers, taxi drivers, pubs, restaurants, dry cleaners etc. WFH is not an entitlement so Boris should set the ball rolling and order all civil servants back to work by mid September. Those who choose not to,  unless they have a doctor's line,  can expect a P45

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

But WFH is costing the jobs of those in city centres who rely on  office workers;  retail workers, taxi drivers, pubs, restaurants, dry cleaners etc. WFH is not an entitlement so Boris should set the ball rolling and order all civil servants back to work by mid September. Those who choose not to,  unless they have a doctor's line,  can expect a P45

They will need to rely on other things for employment in the future. Once this pandemic is over we will see a different working environment. Pubs and restaurants etc will adapt to satisfy the market forces. Things change and we adapt to suit. That’s life. 

[TheOak88]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

But WFH is costing the jobs of those in city centres who rely on  office workers;  retail workers, taxi drivers, pubs, restaurants, dry cleaners etc. WFH is not an entitlement so Boris should set the ball rolling and order all civil servants back to work by mid September. Those who choose not to,  unless they have a doctor's line,  can expect a P45

 

It is not the responsibility of office workers (and their employers) to keep taxi drivers and sandwich shops in business. 

 

If it is preferable for city employers and their employees to keep flexible working/home working in place, they are perfectly within their rights to do so.   

[The Internet]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

It is not the responsibility of office workers (and their employers) to keep taxi drivers and sandwich shops in business. 

 

If it is preferable for city employers and their employees to keep flexible working/home working in place, they are perfectly within their rights to do so.   

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

It is not the responsibility of office workers (and their employers) to keep taxi drivers and sandwich shops in business. 

 

If it is preferable for city employers and their employees to keep flexible working/home working in place, they are perfectly within their rights to do so.   

Employers are within their rights but they should too be leading by example and ordering their staff back. Employees have to work where they are told or look for alternative employment.  The service sector is a huge part of the UK economy so if that sector suffers, there will be less customers for the banks, insurance companies and other financial institutions   whose staff are WFH. Eventually, they too will be shedding jobs. It's all interlinked.

[The Internet]

No employer who cares about their workers will be ordering them back to the office if they're able to do their job from home. Thankfully things almost seem to be changing and companies might be realising that they get more from a happy employee. Flexibility will be key, there will be a lot of people who want to go back to the office. 

[doctor jambo]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Employers are within their rights but they should too be leading by example and ordering their staff back. Employees have to work where they are told or look for alternative employment.  The service sector is a huge part of the UK economy so if that sector suffers, there will be less customers for the banks, insurance companies and other financial institutions   whose staff are WFH. Eventually, they too will be shedding jobs. It's all interlinked.

I cannot get why people are so willing and ready to throw peoples businesses under the bus.

they would think differently if it were theirs.

are there not enough jobs being lost?

Do we really need an even bigger jobs bonfire than is already happening?

In addition, there are other benefits from a place of work- human interaction being one.

Actual physical contact with other people is a  positive thing.

Do we want everyone isolated in their little rooms at home all the time?

[The Internet]

Sorry but being stuck in an office with the same shit people every day does not equate to positive human interaction. It might for some, not for all. 

[luckydug]

29 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

But WFH is costing the jobs of those in city centres who rely on  office workers;  retail workers, taxi drivers, pubs, restaurants, dry cleaners etc. WFH is not an entitlement so Boris should set the ball rolling and order all civil servants back to work by mid September. Those who choose not to,  unless they have a doctor's line,  can expect a P45

Thought all you Tories believed in freedom of choice. 

Forcing people to work from offices to help other workers seems a bit Socialist. 

 

[TheOak88]

15 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Employers are within their rights but they should too be leading by example and ordering their staff back. Employees have to work where they are told or look for alternative employment.  The service sector is a huge part of the UK economy so if that sector suffers, there will be less customers for the banks, insurance companies and other financial institutions   whose staff are WFH. Eventually, they too will be shedding jobs. It's all interlinked.

 

Why should they be ordering their staff back to the office?

 

If the work is getting done and the company is continuing to hit profit targets, why would they care whether their employees are sitting in an office or a spare bedroom in their house?. Employers want to keep their employees happy and get the most out of them, so why not just leave it up the individual employee what their preference is as to where they work. 

 

The idea we should continue with this outdated system of forcing millions of people across the UK to all converge on city centres every morning, to sit in a massive glass box for 8 hours just so we can keep wee John’s independent sandwich shop in business is laughable. 

 

As they say in business “adapt or die”. Like all businesses you have to adapt to the needs and requirements of your customers.

 

If your customers are now spending part of their week WFH, then adapt your business. Set up your sandwich shop on a local high street near a massive housing estate and set up a delivery system, for example. Just because people are WFH does not mean they will never buy a sandwich for lunch ever again. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I drive to work and take my lunch in with me. Is it ok for me to continue WFH then?

 

If anything, I've spent more money in local shops round about me on lunches etc than I would if I was in the office I think. Quick nip out for some fresh air and I'll pick up a sandwich from the local cafe. 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

He either needs the work or wants less. Either way, thank feck he's not my Doctor. And my Doctor is worse than fecking useless. She's as much use to me as a cock flavoured lollipop. 

Strange choice of lollipop flavour you have 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Ma Roon

[DETTY29]

There was a professor from University of Dundee on Radio Scotland in June-ish time saying that 40% of mild symptoners (?) hayfever going back to doctors with respiratory problems after recovering and many with permanent lung damage.

 

This has gone quiet so do we assume this was wrong or scaremongering?

 

Anyway if there was some truth in it, what would the impact be in kids if we let covid damage through the youth and not mitigate against?

[Don Dan]

Good discussion this.
There are pro and cons from where you choose to work from. 
One of the biggest gains from working home is reduced pollution from travelling to and from work. Less traffic at peak times in my opinion is a bonus. You can also save on travel time. Depending on where your office base is the time you save from travelling to and from work is yours. 

 

[westbow]

14 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

Strange choice of lollipop flavour you have 

Been watching Dodgeball.

[Nucky Thompson]

Wait until next month and all the people who work from home will have their heating on all day along with all the lecky they're burning.

 

They'll be gaging to get back to the office just to save on their bills

[GBJambo]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Wait until next month and all the people who work from home will have their heating on all day along with all the lecky they're burning.

 

They'll be gaging to get back to the office just to save on their bills

Saving on travel costs though. 
Im saving nearly £200 per month on train fares. 

[Don Dan]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

Wait until next month and all the people who work from home will have their heating on all day along with all the lecky they're burning.

 

They'll be gaging to get back to the office just to save on their bills

They can claim allowances for these costs from the company or the taxman. 
It will be cheaper for the company to pay a few quid for electricity for home working rather the the upkeep and rent for an office. 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

Finally, so you agree that wearing a mask is helpful in preventing the spread of Covid. Why not advocate wearing them properly rather than banging on about how science says they do more harm than good?

 

 

What I said, which kicked off this bizarre interrogation, is that "the science" said for many months that it may not be helpful, may do more harm than good. In fact "the science" still says that,  if people relax as a result of wearing the things about hand washing and social distancing and think it doesn't matter how they wear them. 

But if you think you have won some great victory ... well done, congratulations.

[doctor jambo]

Is it our futures to all work alone, in our little home cages and never mingle anymore?

Humans are social animals.

We need company for our mental well being

[Jambo 4 Ever]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Is it our futures to all work alone, in our little home cages and never mingle anymore?

Humans are social animals.

We need company for our mental well being

There’s video calls 

[Shanks]

Imagine the state of the average office worker if they don’t even need to leave their homes for work.

 

The two minute walk to the bus stop is the only exercise some of them get.

 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

3 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Be a selfish manchild and not care about vulnerable people who could die, by the looks of things. 

Yup and there seems to be a number of twits who think similar 

[Enzo Chiefo]

25 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Good discussion this.
There are pro and cons from where you choose to work from. 
One of the biggest gains from working home is reduced pollution from travelling to and from work. Less traffic at peak times in my opinion is a bonus. You can also save on travel time. Depending on where your office base is the time you save from travelling to and from work is yours. 

 

I agree. The reduction in pollution, travel costs, employee stress levels from the morning commute are all undoubted positives from WFH. On the flip side though, the lack of social interaction, , being stuck at home all day every day and possibly lower productivity levels/connectivity issues, mental health issues are all negatives imo. Medium to long term, I think the social distancing measures will be phased out as we move to Phase 4 where the virus is not considered a threat to public health. Then, perhaps the best solution would be a hybrid of WFH and showing face in the office to catch up with colleagues, team meetings, reviews , training etc

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 hour ago, Boy Daniel said:

They will need to rely on other things for employment in the future. Once this pandemic is over we will see a different working environment. Pubs and restaurants etc will adapt to satisfy the market forces. Things change and we adapt to suit. That’s life. 

Exactly 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Just now, Shanks said:

Imagine the state of the average office worker if they don’t even need to leave their homes for work.

 

The two minute walk to the bus stop is the only exercise some of them get.

 

 

Bit of a sweeping generalisation is it not? I've started running on my lunch break and doing video PT sessions before work as I don't have an hour commute anymore. I'm arguably fitter than I was working in the office. 

[graygo]

8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What I said, which kicked off this bizarre interrogation, is that "the science" said for many months that it may not be helpful, may do more harm than good. In fact "the science" still says that,  if people relax as a result of wearing the things about hand washing and social distancing and think it doesn't matter how they wear them. 

But if you think you have won some great victory ... well done, congratulations.

I like to see it as a great loss for you but thanks anyway. 👍

[theshed]

All these people who are happy to work from home I understand but I’d be shocked if company’s don’t sit down in coming months and see if they can make further savings by make staff redundant 
 

Also understand people happy to work from home at the moment but when the winter kicks in and they can’t sit out the back with a coffee in the morning enjoying the sun before they start and then being stuck in house all day would drive me nuts 

 

No good for mental health or keeping weight down by not coming out the house all winter 

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I agree. The reduction in pollution, travel costs, employee stress levels from the morning commute are all undoubted positives from WFH. On the flip side though, the lack of social interaction, , being stuck at home all day every day and possibly lower productivity levels/connectivity issues, mental health issues are all negatives imo. Medium to long term, I think the social distancing measures will be phased out as we move to Phase 4 where the virus is not considered a threat to public health. Then, perhaps the best solution would be a hybrid of WFH and showing face in the office to catch up with colleagues, team meetings, reviews , training etc

 

Flexibility is key. I certainly think this has been a massive eye opener though.

[The Internet]

28 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Wait until next month and all the people who work from home will have their heating on all day along with all the lecky they're burning.

 

They'll be gaging to get back to the office just to save on their bills

 

My electricity has gone up by about a fiver a month and I'm saving 55 on my bus pass as is my wife. 

[westbow]

I suppose no office christmas parties this year means divorce rates will plummet. Anybody thought about the poor lawyers?

[Shanks]

2 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

Bit of a sweeping generalisation is it not? I've started running on my lunch break and doing video PT sessions before work as I don't have an hour commute anymore. I'm arguably fitter than I was working in the office. 

I said average office worker, some will be like yourself.  A lot will be even lazier than they already are.  
 

Although I would hope that one of the benefits of this virus is that it gives some people a wake up call.  People can’t just treat their bodies like trash and expect the NHS to save them.  In the long run we should have a healthier country as people take a look at their lifestyles and realise they have to take responsibility for their own health. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

3 minutes ago, Shanks said:

I said average office worker, some will be like yourself.  A lot will be even lazier than they already are.  
 

Although I would hope that one of the benefits of this virus is that it gives some people a wake up call.  People can’t just treat their bodies like trash and expect the NHS to save them.  In the long run we should have a healthier country as people take a look at their lifestyles and realise they have to take responsibility for their own health. 

 

Yeah that's a good point. It certainly has for me. 

[Nucky Thompson]

5 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

My electricity has gone up by about a fiver a month and I'm saving 55 on my bus pass as is my wife. 

The both of you are working from home? You'll be wanting to kill each other before the year is out 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

Thought all you Tories believed in freedom of choice. 

Forcing people to work from offices to help other workers seems a bit Socialist. 

 

We understand the importance of small businesses thriving, growing, paying taxes, employing more staff etc, helping to fund our public services. Encouraging staff to lounge about in their jammies all day, losing the work ethic....that is anathema to all Tories👍

[graygo]

14 minutes ago, westbow said:

I suppose no office christmas parties this year means divorce rates will plummet. Anybody thought about the poor lawyers?

 

Cancelled out by both partners being stuck in the house together all day, every day.

[TheOak88]

46 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Wait until next month and all the people who work from home will have their heating on all day along with all the lecky they're burning.

 

They'll be gaging to get back to the office just to save on their bills

 

The savings people are making by way of not having to pay for bus passes, train tickets, petrol etc far outweighs an extra £10-£20 a month on heating bills. 

[Don Dan]

17 minutes ago, westbow said:

I suppose no office christmas parties this year means divorce rates will plummet. Anybody thought about the poor lawyers?

😂

[TheOak88]

30 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Is it our futures to all work alone, in our little home cages and never mingle anymore?

Humans are social animals.

We need company for our mental well being

 

Strawman argument. 

 

Nobody is arguing people should never meet a colleague face to face for the rest of their career. 

 

People are arguing for more flexibility. Say work from home 3 days a week, go into the office 2 days a week. Less commuting time, easier to fit work around family life etc. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

Thought all you Tories believed in freedom of choice. 

Forcing people to work from offices to help other workers seems a bit Socialist. 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

3 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

The savings people are making by way of not having to pay for bus passes, train tickets, petrol etc far outweighs an extra £10-£20 a month on heating bills. 

I'll need to change my utility provider to the same as you guys