Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[The Real Maroonblood]

20 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Fecking Nicola Sturgeon! 

Haters going hate.

[OmiyaHearts]

10 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Can folk not work out in the hoose, FFS. A bunch of moaning faced *£/&s. I'm a big gym fanatic, but I can wait til they're opened. I'll train in the hoose or run outside on the street if I need to. 

Boo hoo! 

What a thoroughly mature response and really took peoples circumstances into consideration. Thank you.

[Don Dan]

The number of new Covid-19 infections has risen by more than a third in just two days - but the government today said it will not be releasing a daily death toll.

The Department for Health and Social Care revealed that 846 people tested positive in the 24 hours to 9am this morning - up from 763 yesterday.

On Tuesday 581 cases were identified.

But the government said it has paused releasing new death figures because of question marks over their accuracy.

 

I thought they decided the figures needed looking into a couple of weeks ago.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Boy Daniel

[Nucky Thompson]

27 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Can folk not work out in the hoose, FFS. A bunch of moaning faced *£/&s. I'm a big gym fanatic, but I can wait til they're opened. I'll train in the hoose or run outside on the street if I need to. 

Boo hoo! 

You just accept everything she says without questioning it. It was the same when she stopped you from working on site.

 

You're allowed to disagree with some of her decisions 

[graygo]

Maybe not the thread for it but Jackson Carlaw has just resigned.

 

75% of the shite spouted in the Scottish parliament wiped out in one fell swoop. 😁

Edited July 30, 2020 by graygo

[Governor Tarkin]

33 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Can folk not work out in the hoose, FFS. A bunch of moaning faced *£/&s. I'm a big gym fanatic, but I can wait til they're opened. I'll train in the hoose or run outside on the street if I need to. 

Boo hoo! 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, graygo said:

Maybe not the thread for it but Jackson Carlaw has just resigned.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, graygo said:

Maybe not the thread for it but Jackson Carlaw has just resigned.

 

75% of the shite spouted in the Scottish parliament wiped out in one fell swoop. 😁

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Anyone returning from Luxembourg to Scotland will now need to quarantine for 14 days.

https://www.gov.scot/news/quarantine-rules-imposed-on-travellers-from-luxembourg/

[Ray Gin]

14 minutes ago, graygo said:

Maybe not the thread for it but Jackson Carlaw has just resigned.

 

75% of the shite spouted in the Scottish parliament wiped out in one fell swoop. 😁

 

 

Scottish Tories in turmoil

[Francis Albert]

6 hours ago, graygo said:

 

Nothing will tell the full story, at least no single measure will but as you yourself point out, it's generally considered the best measure. Not sure how all the other causes of death that you mention can't be attributed to Covid-19 when they are all directly linked to the disease in that none of them would happen without it.

 

Edit: I wasn't championing the Guardian, the figures are from the ONS and widely reported on by various media outlets.

You can't just attribute all the these related deaths to Coronavirus. Otherwise you can kill as many people as you like with the cure of or control of Coronavirus and just show bigger and bigger numbers of Coronavirus deaths. As one small example, the inability of people currently to see their doctors will result in deaths. Those deaths are not due to  Coronavirus but to the  fact that today you can make an appointment with your hairdresser but not in person with your GP and despite spare capacity the NHS has stopped treating many people with non-Covid illnesses..

Excess deaths may at certain phases and in certain circumstances be a useful measure. But not always. The excess death figures since the beginning of July would suggest Coronavirus is saving lives in the UK and most of Europe which would be an absurd conclusion. . Looking ahead the collapse of economies in rich countries will likely kill many more people than Coronavirus kills but will those be "coronavirus" deaths or the price of protecting people in rich countries by shutting down their economies?

[Francis Albert]

Nicolas rating seems based on a survey of a total for all leaders of a mere 100 hours of press conference footage. Must have been a very small sample of Nicola's work!

Edited July 30, 2020 by Francis Albert

[graygo]

If people are dying because they can't see their doctor due to Coronavirus then that death is linked to Coronavirus, not sure how you can try to argue that it isn't.

Nowhere have I said that deaths that wouldn't have occurred without the pandemic be counted as "coronavirus" deaths, just that they are linked.

[DETTY29]

56 minutes ago, graygo said:

Maybe not the thread for it but Jackson Carlaw has just resigned.

 

75% of the shite spouted in the Scottish parliament wiped out in one fell swoop. 😁

Douglas Ross touted as new leader.

 

Tory leader running lines at Scottish football games and not being able to do FMQs because on Uefa - FIFA duty.

 

Not saying there is a great deal of talent below Sturgeon in the SNP but Ross is probably the barely capable politician left in the Scottish Tories.

 

I'd like to see Murdo Fraser have a bash at it though.  Actually no.  Whatever political leanings, for the overall good of the coutry-nation it is vital to have an effective and credible opposition. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by DETTY29

[TheOak88]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Can folk not work out in the hoose, FFS. A bunch of moaning faced *£/&s. I'm a big gym fanatic, but I can wait til they're opened. I'll train in the hoose or run outside on the street if I need to. 

Boo hoo! 

 

I haven’t got weights in the house. 

[Francis Albert]

41 minutes ago, graygo said:

If people are dying because they can't see their doctor due to Coronavirus then that death is linked to Coronavirus, not sure how you can try to argue that it isn't.

Nowhere have I said that deaths that wouldn't have occurred without the pandemic be counted as "coronavirus" deaths, just that they are linked.

You said attributed to covid 19 not linked to. If people die because their doctor won't see them when Coronavirus is virtually absent  that death cannot imo reasonably be attributed to Covid19.

[Tommy Brown]

4 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Going to the pub helps my mental health.

For a wee while,

then it starts distorting your mental ability 

[graygo]

Attributed to, linked to. You tell me the difference and maybe then what you are saying will make sense.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

14 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

For a wee while,

then it starts distorting your mental ability 

🍺

[Governor Tarkin]

26 minutes ago, graygo said:

Attributed to, linked to. You tell me the difference and maybe then what you are saying will make sense.

 

 

 

I'd go with something like this:

 

Have coronavirus and die of it = covid death.

 

Don't have coronavirus but die because you can't get the treatment you need in order not to die because resources are allocated elsewhere = non covid death.

 

Die due to some other mental, social, financial, etc effect of the pandemic = non covid death.

 

Otherwise it looks like the virus itself is kiling more folk than it is, which is not to say it hasn't killed a lot of folk.

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I'd go with something like this:

 

Have coronavirus and die of it = covid death.

 

Don't have coronavirus but die because you can't get the treatment you need in order not to die because resources are allocated elsewhere = non covid death.

 

Otherwise it looks like the virus is kiling mote folk than it is, which is not to say it hasn't killed a lot of folk. 

 

I agree with that when you are talking about counting Covid and non Covid deaths if that's what you want to do but those non Covid deaths are still attributed/linked/associated/facilitated to Covid.

It's semantics to deny that imo.

Straight out of the Neil Doncaster school of semantics. "Nah, can't do a loan in lieu of the money we're due you, can do an advance though" 😁

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

Isn’t the death because of ‘can’t get treatment’ a result of lockdown strategy, as opposed to COVID.

 

Now you could argue lockdown is a result of COVID but that not true its a choice the government choose to make. They could have taken alternate strategies to keep health service up and running etc. 

 

To me when the inquest starts we will need to look at whether lockdown was or wasn’t not the right route. I’m not prejudging anything but just pointing out the nuance. 

 

Would we have had a lockdown if Covid hadn't come along?

No - lockdown was a result of Covid.

[Enzo Chiefo]

If someone dies of cirrhosis of the liver due to alcohol abuse, then that is the cause of death. You don't put the reason why they were drinking, financial/marital problems for example, as the cause.

You can't register a death as Covid unless they have had the disease and it caused their demise. Any other tenuous link is not the actual cause. 

[graygo]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If someone dies of cirrhosis of the liver due to alcohol abuse, then that is the cause of death. You don't put the reason why they were drinking, financial/marital problems for example, as the cause.

You can't register a death as Covid unless they have had the disease and it caused their demise. Any other tenuous link is not the actual cause. 

 

Nobody said it was the cause.

 

In your example would you say that the cirrhosis of the liver could be attributed to or linked to the drinking?

 

Arguing semantics is pointless.

Edited July 30, 2020 by graygo

[GinRummy]

15 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If someone dies of cirrhosis of the liver due to alcohol abuse, then that is the cause of death. You don't put the reason why they were drinking, financial/marital problems for example, as the cause.

You can't register a death as Covid unless they have had the disease and it caused their demise. Any other tenuous link is not the actual cause. 

Aye but it’s not as simple as that. Covid can quicken someone’s death if they have serious medical conditions. Very difficult to find a balance and that doesn’t even factor someone with a serious condition that recovers from Covid but suffers long term effects from the initial infection. Long term effects currently a grey area.

[Walter Bishop]

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Same for me. Gym keeps my anxiety in check and stops me from using drink and weed to suppress it (which then has other negative effects on my health).

 

Really gutted at this decision.

Yes i always have to push myself to go to the gym after getting home from work but I always feel great after I have had a workout ! Yes weed and alcohol are depressants . Not at all helpful if you have depression or mental health issues 

[graygo]

10 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Think your missing the point.

 

I’ll use a shit analogy. If you said said Hearts were shite and I punched in the face. 

 

The punch in the face isn’t a result of Hearts being shit its a result of choice I made to punch you in the face.

 

Lockdown was a choice not it was not caused by COVID. It has never been something that needed to be done as many other countries have demonstrated.

 

It was my point that is being debated so not sure how I can be missing it. 🥴

 

Let's play though, so if you punch me in the face and I then went to town on you and battered seven shades of shite out of you my actions wouldn't have been a result of what you did to me? Really?

[Governor Tarkin]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

It was my point that is being debated so not sure how I can be missing it. 🥴

 

Let's play though, so if you punch me in the face and I then went to town on you and battered seven shades of shite out of you my actions wouldn't have been a result of what you did to me? Really?

 

So if @The Real Maroonblood waded in with a bar stool on Lord BJ's behalf would that be down to Hearts being shite?

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

So if @The Real Maroonblood waded in with a bar stool on Lord BJ's behalf would that be down to Hearts being shite?

We’ve stopped being shite anyway. We’re going to be good from now on so it’s drinks all round and hurrah for robbie Neilson. No bar room brawls next season 😀

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

So if @The Real Maroonblood waded in with a bar stool on Lord BJ's behalf would that be down to Hearts being shite?

 

No but it would be a result of the original punch.

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

We’ve stopped being shite anyway. We’re going to be good from now on so it’s drinks all round and hurrah for robbie Neilson. No bar room brawls next season 😀

 

If that doesn't happen your getting a punch in the face. 😁

[GinRummy]

Just now, graygo said:

 

If that doesn't happen your getting a punch in the face. 😁

😂

[The Real Maroonblood]

10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

So if @The Real Maroonblood waded in with a bar stool on Lord BJ's behalf would that be down to Hearts being shite?

[Mikey1874]

 

[JFK-1]

• 

[graygo]

12 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Well you actually responding to my point about nuance. So yes you are most certainly missing it.😃

 

No that would be a result of your choice to batter seven bells out of me. You would have lots of other choices you could have ignored me, you could have run away, you could restrain me etc.

 

You’re not a child no one forces you do anything. That would be a choice you make.

 

A bit like COVID didn’t force the governments to shut down health care services. It was choice they made all on their own.

 

They will need to deal with the consequences with that and make no mistake they will be grave as will be trashing the economy.

 

 

 

Pure semantics as I said.

[XB52]

Those stating that the stats show Scotland was almost as bad as England are missing the fact that, until early June we were following more or less the lead of Westminster. Scotland then took a different path, much to the chagrin of the unionists on here that said it was just wee nippy being political for the sake of it. The stats since then show Scotland has fared much much better than England. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

Pure semantics as I said.

 

I'm a well known anti-semantic.

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[Rudi Skacel]

I hope im off till september. Another month on the golf course awaits! (I work in a leisure centre) 😎

[Nucky Thompson]

16 minutes ago, Rudi Skacel said:

I hope im off till september. Another month on the golf course awaits! (I work in a leisure centre) 😎

You might have a couple of years on the golf course with no income. Furlough is just masking the job losses to come

[Governor Tarkin]

6 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

You might have a couple of years on the golf course with no income. Furlough is just masking the job losses to come

 

Spoke to my gaffer this morning, Nucky. Order book is empty and jobs are being cancelled at the 11th hour. Looks like most of my squad will be laid off at the end of furlough as we feared.

 

Back to opportunist crime and burglary for me.

 

 

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Spoke to my gaffer this morning, Nucky. Order book is empty and jobs are being cancelled at the 11th hour. Looks like most of my squad will be laid off at the end of furlough as we feared.

 

Back to opportunist crime and burglary for me.

 

 

Fingers crossed it doesn't get to that mate🤞

[William H. Bonney]

11 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Spoke to my gaffer this morning, Nucky. Order book is empty and jobs are being cancelled at the 11th hour. Looks like most of my squad will be laid off at the end of furlough as we feared.

 

Back to opportunist crime and burglary for me.

 

 

My parents don’t lock their front door. I’ll pm you their address. 

[scottishguy]

Had been on furlough since this all started. Volunteered for nightshift 2 weeks ago. Glad that I did, as workforce will be cut massively when furlough ends and most people who haven't taken the chance of shift work, rather than the normal day shift, will be getting laid off. Over 1100 employees where I work, probably be cut back to under 700. Not looking good for us muppets in Livingston.

[jake]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

Pure semantics as I said.

No it's not goes to the heart of the matter.

Covid death from the virus counts.

It's what I've been posting for a while.

Needs looked at .

Covid related means measures taken ti beat the virus have resulted in deaths I'll health job loss.

That's policy.

 

10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Spoke to my gaffer this morning, Nucky. Order book is empty and jobs are being cancelled at the 11th hour. Looks like most of my squad will be laid off at the end of furlough as we feared.

 

Back to opportunist crime and burglary for me.

 

 

And heres the fall out.

Not much money in HB mate unless high end .

No doubt you will get by but loads wont.

 

 

Not sure of the way forward but some posters on here come across as flag wavers for lockdown.

Any hint of dissent and it's a rage.

 

What a frantic mess

[jake]

2 minutes ago, scottishguy said:

Had been on furlough since this all started. Volunteered for nightshift 2 weeks ago. Glad that I did, as workforce will be cut massively when furlough ends and most people who haven't taken the chance of shift work, rather than the normal day shift, will be getting laid off. Over 1100 employees where I work, probably be cut back to under 700. Not looking good for us muppets in Livingston.

400 people laid off affecting how many more.

Its stacking up badly.

 

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, jake said:

No it's not goes to the heart of the matter.

Covid death from the virus counts.

It's what I've been posting for a while.

Needs looked at .

Covid related means measures taken ti beat the virus have resulted in deaths I'll health job loss.

That's policy.

 

 

I've no idea what you're saying here, the bit in bold isn't helping.

[jake]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

I've no idea what you're saying here, the bit in bold isn't helping.

Sorry.

Covid related deaths means I think not from the virus but from the measures taken to beat it.

Job loss

Ill health

Collateral damage to children

Mental well being

The most vulnerable taking the hit.

So semantics is what you say it is and its everything but that 

[graygo]

Just now, jake said:

Sorry.

Covid related deaths means I think not from the virus but from the measures taken to beat it.

Job loss

Ill health

Collateral damage to children

Mental well being

The most vulnerable taking the hit.

So semantics is what you say it is and its everything but that 

 

Cheers.

 

I was saying that all those things are a result of Covid, they wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for Covid. I can't see how anyone can argue against that.

I'm not suggesting that they be counted in as Covid deaths just that they are a result of Covid.