jake Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, graygo said: Cheers. I was saying that all those things are a result of Covid, they wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for Covid. I can't see how anyone can argue against that. I'm not suggesting that they be counted in as Covid deaths just that they are a result of Covid. Yes they are. But are they a result of covid virus or covid response. That's not semantics. It's really the heart of the matter. At risk of repeating myself the effects of the "cure" might be worse than the virus. We need to examine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, jake said: Yes they are. But are they a result of covid virus or covid response. That's not semantics. It's really the heart of the matter. At risk of repeating myself the effects of the "cure" might be worse than the virus. We need to examine that. I agree with the highlighted part, the first part is semantics with regards to my original point in that all these things are related to Covid-19. You could really have stopped after typing "Yes they are" because that is quite literally all I was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 minute ago, graygo said: I agree with the highlighted part, the first part is semantics with regards to my original point in that all these things are related to Covid-19. You could really have stopped after typing "Yes they are" because that is quite literally all I was saying. Sorry I just read from where I quoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Did I just see that Scotland is one of the worst countries in terms of death from covid? I'd that's the case I believe we really are in mass hysteria given the casualty figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, jake said: Did I just see that Scotland is one of the worst countries in terms of death from covid? I'd that's the case I believe we really are in mass hysteria given the casualty figures. 3rd worse in regards to excess deaths in Europe Jan-June I think it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, graygo said: 3rd worse in regards to excess deaths in Europe Jan-June I think it was. And yet of all my friends family workmates I know of one suspected casualty who was in her 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 19 minutes ago, jake said: And yet of all my friends family workmates I know of one suspected casualty who was in her 80s. Like you say, lots of people dying with non Covid issues that they might not have if Covid wasn't around. That plus the slaughter of our care home residents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, graygo said: Pure semantics as I said. You keep saying this. Semantics means "The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning" Why do think "pure semantics " is an adequate or even slam dunk dismissal of any distinction between the meaning of words (in context) like "connected to" and "attributed to". Or dismissal of logic in use of these words for that matter? Let me try another example. Our local buses have restrictions on numbers so if the bus I am waiting for is full and I decide to walk instead and am killed when crossing the road is my death attributable to Covid19? On the excess deaths sum I guess yes. And on the principle that but for Covid19 I would in all probabilty still be alive it would I suppose be "linked" to or "connected to" Covid19. But "attributable" to Covid19? Really? And is the distinction really just "pure semantics"? Edited July 30, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: You keep saying this. Semantics means "The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning" Why do think "pure semantics " is an adequate or even slam dunk dismissal of any distinction between the meaning of words (in context) like "connected to" and "attributed to". Or dismissal of logic in use of these words for that matter? Let me try another example. Our local buses have restrictions on numbers so if the bus I am waiting for is full and I decide to walk instead and am killed when crossing the road is my death attributable to Covid19? On the excess deaths sum I guess yes. And on the principle that but for Covid19 I would in all probabilty still be alive it would I suppose be "linked" to or "connected to" Covid19. But "attributable" to Covid19? Really? And is the distinction really just "pure semantics"? You're splitting hairs between the meaning of linked to/connected to and attributable, that to me is semantics. Spare me any more random examples and just say that I don't understand the meaning of the word semantics and we can move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) Question - If you deduct the number of Covid-19 confirmed (not linked to/attributable to) from the total deaths Jan-June, how does that number compare to the normal death number? Edit: Having thought about that a bit more I suppose quite a number of Covid-19 deaths would have occurred anyway, age related illnesses and comorbidity. Edited July 30, 2020 by graygo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Parts of Greater Manchester and Yorkshire back in full lockdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 hours ago, ri Alban said: Parts of Greater Manchester and Yorkshire back in full lockdown. No they aren’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dazo said: No they aren’t. They are. Stupid couldn't keep their distance. No more meeting anyone else for a while. No doubt stay at home will follow. Muslims can't catch covid, apparently. So they've told me. Edited July 31, 2020 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, ri Alban said: They are. Stupid couldn't keep their distance. No more meeting anyone else for a while. No doubt stay at home will follow. Muslims can't catch covid, apparently. So they've told me. They aren’t. Restrictions tightened but not full lockdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 8 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said: Spoke to my gaffer this morning, Nucky. Order book is empty and jobs are being cancelled at the 11th hour. Looks like most of my squad will be laid off at the end of furlough as we feared. Back to opportunist crime and burglary for me. You'll be fine mate. If all else fails, you can go back to carving and lifting heavy stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Mancock quick out the blocks to blame the people for not following the governments crystal clear social distancing rules in the North West. Nothing to do with easing way too quickly to chase the dollar, no siree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 9 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: Fingers crossed it doesn't get to that mate🤞 Cheers It's outwith our control so no point in worrying too much just now, but there must be thousands up and down the country who are facing something similar. November could be carnage. 9 hours ago, Furious Styles said: My parents don’t lock their front door. I’ll pm you their address. Roger. 60/40 split. 36 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said: You'll be fine mate. If all else fails, you can go back to carving and lifting heavy stone Cannae beat a bit tenement bashing. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 The whole thing is becoming farcical. The UK Government are now obsessed with Covid-19. It was all about saving the NHS and flattening the curve. The NHS never needed saved and the curve flattened weeks ago. We were told Increased testing was the key to getting out of this, Yet now we are back in complete panic mode because we are testing more people,the majority without symptoms! As a result we are finding more positive cases, mostly asymptomatic which we dont even have confirmed data to show if they can pass it on!! It appears positive cases have now become the new deaths! This is all about control, we will be wearing goggles and earmuffs next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: The whole thing is becoming farcical. The UK Government are now obsessed with Covid-19. It was all about saving the NHS and flattening the curve. The NHS never needed saved and the curve flattened weeks ago. We were told Increased testing was the key to getting out of this, Yet now we are back in complete panic mode because we are testing more people,the majority without symptoms! As a result we are finding more positive cases, mostly asymptomatic which we dont even have confirmed data to show if they can pass it on!! It appears positive cases have now become the new deaths! This is all about control, we will be wearing goggles and earmuffs next! And tinfoil hats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) Edited July 31, 2020 by Walter Bishop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: And tinfoil hats Would probably be more useful than masks to be fair. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: The whole thing is becoming farcical. The UK Government are now obsessed with Covid-19. It was all about saving the NHS and flattening the curve. The NHS never needed saved and the curve flattened weeks ago. We were told Increased testing was the key to getting out of this, Yet now we are back in complete panic mode because we are testing more people,the majority without symptoms! As a result we are finding more positive cases, mostly asymptomatic which we dont even have confirmed data to show if they can pass it on!! It appears positive cases have now become the new deaths! This is all about control, we will be wearing goggles and earmuffs next! So much stupid in one post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: So much stupid in one post. Really, it's only 6 words. Don't be too hard on yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Walter Bishop said: Really, it's only 6 words. Don't be too hard on yourself. Have you calmed down yet, Karen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said: Have you calmed down yet, Karen? 👏👏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 43 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: So much stupid in one post. To be fair there was no links in the post which I found quite refreshing. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 8 hours ago, graygo said: Question - If you deduct the number of Covid-19 confirmed (not linked to/attributable to) from the total deaths Jan-June, how does that number compare to the normal death number? Edit: Having thought about that a bit more I suppose quite a number of Covid-19 deaths would have occurred anyway, age related illnesses and comorbidity. Finally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 51 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: To be fair there was no links in the post which I found quite refreshing. 😀 I think the mods should have two Covid 19 threads. One for the regular kids, and one for the half-dozen dipsticks 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Francis should definitely have his own thread where he can whinge about the blacks and young people and tie himself in knots with really boring straw man arguments and weird meaningless comparisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 36 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: I think the mods should have two Covid 19 threads. One for the regular kids, and one for the half-dozen dipsticks 😁 Totally agree. You and your 5 pals could share all your data from behind your couches. 👍 Leaves the rest of us to get on with our lives whilst discussing an illness that will likely have no effect on 99.94% of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: Leaves the rest of us to get on with our lives whilst discussing an illness that will likely have no effect on 99.94% of us. You don't seem to understand the ramifications of a contagion loose in hospitals and the impact on key services. Until we have a treatment or vaccine then there is a big risk at hospitals. So if there is a big spike in cases, even if they are mostly asymptotic, it's a concern that needs monitoring to ensure hospitals do not end up with loads going into ICU again. We're not seeing that, thankfully, but doesn't mean the governments shouldn't tread lightly. All you're doing in this thread is posting controversial claims and are keen to reduce the virus to nothing more than a cold when this is an entirely new thing and is behaving differently. If you wear a seatbelt and you get to your destination without crashing, do you say "ah what a waste of time wearing this seatbelt is, I didn't crash therefore it is just a waste of time and no one should need to wear them!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, kila said: Until we have a treatment or vaccine then there is a big risk at hospitals. So if there is a big spike in cases, even if they are mostly asymptotic, it's a concern that needs monitoring to ensure hospitals do not end up with loads going into ICU again. We're not seeing that, thankfully, but doesn't mean the governments shouldn't tread lightly. WE have had our " big spike" in cases...it was late March and most of April. The NHS coped well with it but at the expense of other illnesses. There will be " spikes" and " surges" that should be managed by track and trace. I'm not unduly worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Worrying that it's come down to 99.94%, used to be 99.99% that folk said wouldn't be affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Салатные палочки Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Walter Bishop said: The whole thing is becoming farcical. The UK Government are now obsessed with Covid-19. It was all about saving the NHS and flattening the curve. The NHS never needed saved and the curve flattened weeks ago. We were told Increased testing was the key to getting out of this, Yet now we are back in complete panic mode because we are testing more people,the majority without symptoms! As a result we are finding more positive cases, mostly asymptomatic which we dont even have confirmed data to show if they can pass it on!! It appears positive cases have now become the new deaths! This is all about control, we will be wearing goggles and earmuffs next! The worrying thing for me is the power to lockdown has now shifted to local government, meaning they can pick and choose when to impose a lockdown on the local area. Wont be long until it's happening up here and I imagine it would be Glasgow given 11 (eleven) people have recently tested positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishguy Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 13 hours ago, jake said: 400 people laid off affecting how many more. Its stacking up badly. And its only gonna get worse mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 But these spikes are just down to places in the country that hadn't previously had an outbreak just getting their first cases now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 33 minutes ago, kila said: You don't seem to understand the ramifications of a contagion loose in hospitals and the impact on key services. Until we have a treatment or vaccine then there is a big risk at hospitals. So if there is a big spike in cases, even if they are mostly asymptotic, it's a concern that needs monitoring to ensure hospitals do not end up with loads going into ICU again. We're not seeing that, thankfully, but doesn't mean the governments shouldn't tread lightly. All you're doing in this thread is posting controversial claims and are keen to reduce the virus to nothing more than a cold when this is an entirely new thing and is behaving differently. If you wear a seatbelt and you get to your destination without crashing, do you say "ah what a waste of time wearing this seatbelt is, I didn't crash therefore it is just a waste of time and no one should need to wear them!" Hardly controversial claims, all based on data that is readily available if you want to look for it. Another thing i don't understand, Why would you be so scared of this virus that you refuse to get on with life but would happily take a vaccine that has been rushed through and skipped passed many stringent security protocols in the hope of making everything alright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: But these spikes are just down to places in the country that hadn't previously had an outbreak just getting their first cases now All these graphs do is show how much of a joke these lockdowns are. I`ll give the government another 3 or 4 of these lockdowns before the people start to totally dismiss them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said: All these graphs do is show how much of a joke these lockdowns are. I`ll give the government another 3 or 4 of these lockdowns before the people start to totally dismiss them. No, they show how much utter drivel you come out with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: Hardly controversial claims, all based on data that is readily available if you want to look for it. Another thing i don't understand, Why would you be so scared of this virus that you refuse to get on with life but would happily take a vaccine that has been rushed through and skipped passed many stringent security protocols in the hope of making everything alright? Folk are feart of the day they've never seen. I think about covid twice a day. Once when I nip out to the shops and clock everyone cutting about in masks like a scene from some dystopian nightmare, and second when I log on here for a scan at the to-and-fro between the panic merchants and the wind up merchants. Doesn't even cross my mind in the boozer or the restaurant as the extra space is actually quite pleasant. I'd assume plenty of folk are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 39 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: WE have had our " big spike" in cases...it was late March and most of April. The NHS coped well with it but at the expense of other illnesses. There will be " spikes" and " surges" that should be managed by track and trace. I'm not unduly worried. At the expense of other illnesses? Are you suggesting the NHS should've kept its services on full and let those with other illnesses also catch CV19 to really finish them off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, kila said: Are you suggesting the NHS should've kept its services on full and let those with other illnesses also catch CV19 to really finish them off? Might've solved a few problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: Hardly controversial claims, all based on data that is readily available if you want to look for it. Another thing i don't understand, Why would you be so scared of this virus that you refuse to get on with life but would happily take a vaccine that has been rushed through and skipped passed many stringent security protocols in the hope of making everything alright? Which vaccine are you referring to and which corners are being cut with the UK ones? It's every country for themselves with the vaccine it seems and the US are definitely cutting corners. Treatments will be more important though. If folk get it bad and get prescribed an inhaler and told to recover at home then a vaccine is less needed. And those who'd be on the list to get the vaccine will be those who get the flu jag. It's not as if the entire population is going to be vaccinated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: No, they show how much utter drivel you come out with. Nope, they don`t. You are the biggest slaverer on this thread, Constantly scaremongering. Your family must love living with you at the moment, Locked in room each, eating and washing separately, haz mat suits in the house. Enjoy. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, kila said: At the expense of other illnesses? Are you suggesting the NHS should've kept its services on full and let those with other illnesses also catch CV19 to really finish them off? No, the NHS should have had better measures in place to contain the spread in hospitals, such as those they have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Walter Bishop said: Nope, they don`t. You are the biggest slaverer on this thread, Constantly scaremongering. Your family must love living with you at the moment, Locked in room each, eating and washing separately, haz mat suits in the house. Enjoy. 👍 I don't do any of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said: Nope, they don`t. You are the biggest slaverer on this thread, Constantly scaremongering. Your family must love living with you at the moment, Locked in room each, eating and washing separately, haz mat suits in the house. Enjoy. 👍 To be fair, mate, we've no idea of Ray's personal circumstances, so it's a bit unfair to be too harsh. 👍 On the other hand he could be successfully yanking your chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said: No, the NHS should have had better measures in place to contain the spread in hospitals, such as those they have now. Better hospital measures to prevent the spread of a new contagion we had little understanding and have no treatment for? Mmhmmm... It's bonkers to suggest all hospital services should've kept going as normal when ICU was full and more makeshift ICU wards were being created. Then there is the staff who catch CV19 who'd have to isolate so there'd be disruption regardless. Your idea of 'business as usual' just wouldn't work for hospitals during a pandemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, kila said: Which vaccine are you referring to and which corners are being cut with the UK ones? It's every country for themselves with the vaccine it seems and the US are definitely cutting corners. Treatments will be more important though. If folk get it bad and get prescribed an inhaler and told to recover at home then a vaccine is less needed. And those who'd be on the list to get the vaccine will be those who get the flu jag. It's not as if the entire population is going to be vaccinated. Do you read any press? Vaccines are being developed years quicker than they would be normally, why? I agree on treatments, this is the key along with T-cell research and Data. Ive already said on here, i know 2 people who on leaving hospital were given steroid inhalers despite never having asthma or anything associated with it before. These treatments which many are receiving should be publicised and used to stop the spread of constant fear. Again, agree that those who require flu jab will be those who get the "covid jag", Reason being those that wont get it, dont need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: I don't do any of this In my head you do. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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