Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[graygo]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

It was nice to have the German football on today to get a wee break from Covid for a few hours at least.

 

It was good, I watched the Dortmund v Shalke game. Not the same to be fair, I know there was no crowd but give me a rocking Tynecastle any day of the week.

First accie and lost by one game as usual. ☹️

Edited May 17, 2020 by graygo

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I could show you hundreds of them. Those were the first three. Most folk who know anything agree the Gers figures are an incomplete estimate that has no bearing on what an Independent Scotland would look like. You’re 2k per head is like most of what you say, absolute nonsense.

I know you hate folk called Craig but this guy is the exact opposite of ours.

https://thecommongreen.scot/2019/08/22/we-need-to-talk-about-gers-2018-19-edition/

You can argue legitimately about being able to make different decisions under independence but the facts are out there : Scotland raises less per capita in tax than and benefits per capita in public spending.  The difference is £2k per head. Those are factual figures contained in the latest GERS report, produced by the Scottish Government themselves.  You can argue that back in the 70s , we raised more per capita with oil revenues included, fair enough but the figures I quoted you are the most up to date, factual indication of the position we would be in on Day 1 of independence.  Attaching numerous articles espousing conspiracy theories from a selection  of flat earthers does not change that. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Did the SNP bad thread get closed?

 

If not take all your moon howling shite over there and circle jerk till your wee hearts are content. 👍

[The Mighty Thor]

12 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The herd immunity theory is well established over centuries. Chris Whitty and Jason Leitch both publicly supported this plan before Ferguson revealed his customary cataclysmic forecast. Given how wrong he was with his modelling on Foot & Mouth, SARS and Swine Flu , I don't think he's worth listening to tbh. The Swedes ran his modelling and ditched it. They've subsequently been vindicated.  Tory bashing is far easier than looking at the facts though.

Its not really. The dithering hokey cokey of herd immunity or not means we've got over 60,000 excess deaths all cause mortality. 

Stopping test track and trace was another major error as was emptying elderly hospital patients into care homes without testing. Catastrophic. 

 

Its far easier to look at the facts. 

[The Mighty Thor]

9 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Dream on. Using the Scottish people as pawns in her political game against Westminster and flexing her devolved muscles.

Construction workers dying to get back to work using social distancing measuring like England.

Golfers playing in pairs like England, which is considered unsafe up here although the courses are full of groups of dog walkers, joggers and family playing sports.

The only people who can't see her playing games are her cult members.

She is committing political suicide 

Alternatively Johnson is dragging England out of lockdown too quickly and without the test track and trace in place. Thats playing games with people for you. 

Was it 84% of Scottish people that think she's (and of course, her cult) are handling this crisis competently?

 

Have the Scottish Government made mistakes in this? Too right they have.

 

In the main though she has been up in front of the public and media every single day giving the nation updates as to where we are and what the advice is. I'll take that over the clown show down the road all day long.  

[John Gentleman]

8 hours ago, Cade said:

AS I've pointed out before, national governments cannot run out of money.

They can always borrow more from international lenders.

Or instead of that, they can simply print more and spin money out of thin air.

This then devalues the money in circulation and pushes up inflation.

Interest rates and taxation is then used to counter this effect.

 

All things are relative. As all developed nations are in (roughly) equal depths of merde, 'quantitive easing' (money 'printing') is no big deal, particularly as demand for goods and services remain low, thus having minimal impact on inflation or asset values. We don't have a 'gold standard' currency any longer; nor does anyone else. They're all fiat. We can't go back to bartering cabbages for cauliflower.

Keynesiasism lives on......

 

 

[hughesie27]

On 15/05/2020 at 16:32, redjambo said:

 

No Jab No Pay is a good example of how pressure can be applied.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Jab_No_Pay

Compulsory vaccines should never be a thing. Presumably the only people who would be infected by it would be those not wanting to get the vaccine. That's their choice, let them kill themselves off. But vaccines should never be compulsory. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Shared debt is surely shared responsibilty, no?

The Union means that Scotland has been just at good as shouldering the responsibility of having to raise cash as the rest of the UK.

Enzo mate, there's plenty of good stuff you can chuck at the nationalists in your Tory crusade, but that was a swing a miss, buddy. 👎

I look forward to an improvement in your next few posts.

 

 

 

😂. Cheers Guvnor. I'm always aiming to improve. Yes, probably badly worded but some posters seem to think Scotland spends money that comes from thin air. I was pointing out that part of the UK debt arises from additional spending in Scotland.  But, I agree, shared liabilities also means a share of assets too.

[ri Alban]

11 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

When was the power transferred?

25th

[John Gentleman]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Compulsory vaccines should never be a thing. Presumably the only people who would be infected by it would be those not wanting to get the vaccine. That's their choice, let them kill themselves off. But vaccines should never be compulsory. 

I can't, for the life of me, understand why people refuse to be vaccinated against anything where a vaccine exists. I reckon they're just scared of needles.

Born in 1953, I suffered the twin horrors of Measles and German Measles because vaccines weren't available. The former (Measles), caused scarring for life in many youngsters. Luckily, I was just old enough to receive the first of the polio vaccines. I don't think many people on this board have 'memory' of the devastatiing effects which polio caused.

Incidentally, I have a colleague at work - only a couple of years younger than myself - who year on year refused to get the annual flu vaccine. "Never had it (the flu), don't need the jab" etc. All bullshit bravado. Guess what? Two months later he came down with a nasty dose of the flu, which developed into multiple bacterial infections which landed him in hospital.

Stay safe folks, and get all your jabs. Every single one which is available to you.

 

[ri Alban]

10 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Uk debt includes Scottish debt. Scotland has been good over many years at spending money without the responsibility of having to raise it. 

If you think that, you're thick. But I expect you don't, do you.

[Realzaragoza]

50 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Did the SNP bad thread get closed?

 

If not take all your moon howling shite over there and circle jerk till your wee hearts are content. 👍

I'm new here . Is there a The SNP can do no wrong thread ?

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

I can't, for the life of me, understand why people refuse to be vaccinated against anything where a vaccine exists. I reckon they're just scared of needles.

Born in 1953, I suffered the twin horrors of Measles and German Measles because vaccines weren't available. The former (Measles), caused scarring for life in many youngsters. Luckily, I was just old enough to receive the first of the polio vaccines. I don't think many people on this board have 'memory' of the devastatiing effects which polio caused.

Incidentally, I have a colleague at work - only a couple of years younger than myself - who year on year refused to get the annual flu vaccine. "Never had it (the flu), don't need the jab" etc. All bullshit bravado. Guess what? Two months later he came down with a nasty dose of the flu, which developed into multiple bacterial infections which landed him in hospital.

Stay safe folks, and get all your jabs. Every single one which is available to you.

 

If you think I'd put a vaccine conjured up in weeks or months into my body, you're very much mistaken.

 

Nurse "There you go, Covid19 free"

 

Me" Yes, but my eyebaws have just fallen oot"

 

 

[hughesie27]

2 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

I can't, for the life of me, understand why people refuse to be vaccinated against anything where a vaccine exists. I reckon they're just scared of needles.

Born in 1953, I suffered the twin horrors of Measles and German Measles because vaccines weren't available. The former (Measles), caused scarring for life in many youngsters. Luckily, I was just old enough to receive the first of the polio vaccines. I don't think many people on this board have 'memory' of the devastatiing effects which polio caused.

Incidentally, I have a colleague at work - only a couple of years younger than myself - who year on year refused to get the annual flu vaccine. "Never had it (the flu), don't need the jab" etc. All bullshit bravado. Guess what? Two months later he came down with a nasty dose of the flu, which developed into multiple bacterial infections which landed him in hospital.

Stay safe folks, and get all your jabs. Every single one which is available to you.

 

To an extent I agree the only bit I differ from is that I don't get the flu jab, pretty much just through lack of effort. But not understanding why people choose not to get vaccines doesn't mean they should be made to. If they want to put themselves at risk then let them. You could chuck me in that group with regards to the flu vaccine.

[ri Alban]

Just now, Realzaragoza said:

I'm new here . Is there a The SNP can do no wrong thread ?

New! 🤣

[Realzaragoza]

31 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Alternatively Johnson is dragging England out of lockdown too quickly and without the test track and trace in place. Thats playing games with people for you. 

Was it 84% of Scottish people that think she's (and of course, her cult) are handling this crisis competently?

 

Have the Scottish Government made mistakes in this? Too right they have.

 

In the main though she has been up in front of the public and media every single day giving the nation updates as to where we are and what the advice is. I'll take that over the clown show down the road all day long.  

But denying any cover up regarding the Nike conference in Edinburgh .

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, Realzaragoza said:

But denying any cover up regarding the Nike conference in Edinburgh .

Cover up. February 26/27 was the conference. First Covid19 case march 1st. Mega cover-up. Aw well, listen to Boris and Matt, they'll show how to catch it.

 

As for the Nike conference, they were all rested and traced. End of.

Edited May 17, 2020 by ri Alban

[John Gentleman]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

If you think I'd put a vaccine conjured up in weeks or months into my body, you're very much mistaken.

 

Nurse "There you go, Covid19 free"

 

Me" Yes, but my eyebaws have just fallen oot"

 

 

I didn't mention any Covid-19 potential vaccine in my post.

There are a cohort of people, through generosity of human spirit, are undergoing double-blind clinical trials of the proto-Oxford Covid-19 vaccine. None of their eyeballs have fallen out.

You really don't understand this, do you?

[doctor jambo]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Anyhoo before the Mods tell us off. 
The British Medical Association has said it’s not safe to send kids back to school, surely that’s the end of that for now.

Ok last one. They have, where have you been the last ten years?  

They are also being challenged for data misrepresentation. 
The crisis is pretty much over.

My kids education has been grossly compromised.

Time to reclassify teachers as key workers and get them back to work.

Kids are more in danger from peanuts than covid, and certainly more vulnerable children will lose out , than if they returned.

Teachers have no right to stay off vs supermarket workers, bus drivers, posties.

 

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

I didn't mention any Covid-19 potential vaccine in my post.

There are a cohort of people, through generosity of human spirit, are undergoing double-blind clinical trials of the proto-Oxford Covid-19 vaccine. None of their eyeballs have fallen out.

You really don't understand this, do you?

If you pressure people to take it , then they have NOT consented.

Hell mend any government that removes the necessity of freely given consent for medical treatment

[John Gentleman]

14 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

If they want to put themselves at risk then let them. You could chuck me in that group with regards to the flu vaccine.

Except they're just not putting themselves at risk, are they? They're also putting at risk people of a similar mindset, but also people who take immunosuppresive medications for a wide range of conditions (my daughter's one of those).

I could come up with stronger nouns, but feckless will do for now.

[Nucky Thompson]

15 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Cover up. February 26/27 was the conference. First Covid19 case march 1st. Mega cover-up. Aw well, listen to Boris and Matt, they'll show how to catch it.

 

As for the Nike conference, they were all rested and traced. End of.

As I said the SNP can do no wrong 

 

You're a construction worker, you must be chocking to get back on site?

[John Gentleman]

12 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Hell mend any government that removes the necessity of freely given consent for medical treatment

Why? What's the worst thing that could happen if a clinically proven vaccine is made compulsory? Especially if all political parties take the same stance. 

Parents certainly weren't given 'consent' options when the first polio vaccine was approved. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by John Gentleman

[Beni]

3 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

Except they're just not putting themselves at risk, are they? They're also putting at risk people of a similar mindset, but also people who take immunosuppresive medications for a wide range of conditions (my daughter's one of those).

I could come up with stronger nouns, but feckless will do for now.

 

I'd happily take a vaccine that's successfully been through clinical trials, but I wouldn't like to see it made compulsory. What would you do with refuseniks? 

[John Gentleman]

3 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I'd happily take a vaccine that's successfully been through clinical trials, but I wouldn't like to see it made compulsory. What would you do with refuseniks? 

Why not?

[ri Alban]

21 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

I didn't mention any Covid-19 potential vaccine in my post.

There are a cohort of people, through generosity of human spirit, are undergoing double-blind clinical trials of the proto-Oxford Covid-19 vaccine. None of their eyeballs have fallen out.

You really don't understand this, do you?

I understand perfectly. I don't have, I've been running a taxi for about a month and I still don't have. I won't be putting anything in my body until I need to. You can , I'm sure you'll mind your eyeballs falling out, as the blind don't need them.

 

 

[The Internet]

Folk buying into the media propaganda against teachers. 

 

[Taffin]

I don't know which is worse, anti-vaxxers or compulsory-vaxxers.

 

Probably compulsory vaxxers as they're trying to force their opinion/agenda/beliefs on others rather than just being a bit dim/paranoid.

[ri Alban]

12 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

As I said the SNP can do no wrong 

 

You're a construction worker, you must be chocking to get back on site?

Construction? No. Trade yes. I'll go when it's safe. I'll just work as something else. You?

 

The SNP do plenty wrong, but compared to devastation of the Tories, don't make me laugh.

[John Gentleman]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I understand perfectly. I don't have, I've been running a taxi for about a month and I still don't have. I won't be putting anything in my body until I need to. You can , I'm sure you'll mind your eyeballs falling out, as the blind don't need them.

 

 

Your post is incomprehensible.

Edited May 17, 2020 by John Gentleman

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I don't know which is worse, anti-vaxxers or compulsory-vaxxers.

 

Probably compulsory vaxxers as they're trying to force their opinion/agenda/beliefs on others rather than just being a bit dim/paranoid.

Who's anti vaccine. There's a difference between anti Vax and putting a very quickly conjured up vaccine without the years of data to back up it's safety.

I'll take it when it proven itself.

[The Mighty Thor]

42 minutes ago, Realzaragoza said:

I'm new here . Is there a The SNP can do no wrong thread ?

Yes mate. Its in the stickies beside the Hearts FC Champions League winners 2020 👍

[Taffin]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Who's anti vaccine. There's a difference between anti Vax and putting a very quickly conjured up vaccine without the years of data to back up it's safety.

I'll take it when it proven itself.

 

I wasn't meaning you. I meant anti-vaxxers in general. I agree with your view on it, I'm in the same boat 👍

[Beni]

5 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

Why not?

 

Because I don't believe the government should mandate what people put in their bodies. I ask again, what would you do to people that refused?

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

Your post is incomprehensible.

Sitting in-between jobs. I forgot to put in a word and a couple of spaces.

 

I don't have Covid19, thou I've been driving a taxi for about a month. So if you don't mind, I'll not be putting non proven vaccines into my system. 

 

 

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I wasn't meaning you. I meant anti-vaxxers in general. I agree with your view on it, I'm in the same boat 👍

👍 Sorry, bud.

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

👍 Sorry, bud.

 

No worries 👍👍

[John Gentleman]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I don't know which is worse, anti-vaxxers or compulsory-vaxxers.

 

Probably compulsory vaxxers as they're trying to force their opinion/agenda/beliefs on others rather than just being a bit dim/paranoid.

Disagree. Anti-vaxxers (and associated far-right libertarian nutters) are responsible for the exponential rate of infections in the US. Despite the absence of a vaccine/effective treament they've railed against any mitigation measures. Now we are seeing the results.

The textbook for Covid-19 hasn't been written yet, but it hasn't stopped that cohort, armed with guns, urging a return to business as usual, with devastating results. 

[Victorian]

The snake Gove on the Marr show.    Hawking a load of utter shite about decisions that are indefensible.    Schools will be incredibly safe for teachers and if they catch covid,   they'll have caught it in the supermarket.    

Edited May 17, 2020 by Victorian

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The snake Gove on the Marr show.    Hawking a load of utter shite about decisions that are indefensible.    Schools will be incredibly safe for teachers and if they catch covid,   they'll have caught it in the supermarket.    

[Victorian]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

 

Not in so many words but that was the underlying message.   Should have been clearer.    

 

That seems to be the main trajectory now.    You can't prove where you caught it = we can deny all sorts of mistakes.

[John Gentleman]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Sitting in-between jobs. I forgot to put in a word and a couple of spaces.

I don't have Covid19, thou I've been driving a taxi for about a month. So if you don't mind, I'll not be putting non proven vaccines into my system.

I didn't suggest you should. All the vaccines I've mentioned have been through rigorous clinical trials and approvals. Excepting, of course, the proto-Oxford Covid-19. Only volunteers are going through the clinical trials for that.

Here's a selection of pathological diseases which have been eradicated (in the US anyway, and pretty much worldwide) due to vaccines:

Diphtheria, bacterial influenza, measles, mumps, rubella, and tetanus. Still some work to be done, particularly in the developing world, on polio, yaws, dracunculiasis and malaria.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The snake Gove on the Marr show.    Hawking a load of utter shite about decisions that are indefensible.    Schools will be incredibly safe for teachers and if they catch covid,   they'll have caught it in the supermarket.    

Risible. 

 

Hancock looked like he would rather have been eating his own shit when he read that speech at Friday's sermon. 

Sunday.....double down. 

They are in full attack mode now, the rags are pumping out on message and twitter is ablaze with bots. 

[Spellczech]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The snake Gove on the Marr show.    Hawking a load of utter shite about decisions that are indefensible.    Schools will be incredibly safe for teachers and if they catch covid,   they'll have caught it in the supermarket.    

Teachers are paid a lot more than nurses and Care workers. If the health workers can just get on with it then I think the teachers should too. At the end of the day being "safe" is impossible and if people want to hide in a bunker forever it is their choice but they should not get paid to do it. The Govt made its mistakes, now we all just have to get on with it as best we can whilst protecting the vulnerable in society as best we can.

[doctor jambo]

9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The snake Gove on the Marr show.    Hawking a load of utter shite about decisions that are indefensible.    Schools will be incredibly safe for teachers and if they catch covid,   they'll have caught it in the supermarket.    

Teachers have no more right to be protected from covid than any other profession.

They are key workers with a role in child protection.

The kids are at very low risk from the infection.

Refusal to open schools has nothing to do with the risks to children, and that is what this should be about- the children.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Not in so many words but that was the underlying message.   Should have been clearer.    

 

That seems to be the main trajectory now.    You can't prove where you caught it = we can deny all sorts of mistakes.

I get the gist of it.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Teachers are paid a lot more than nurses and Care workers. If the health workers can just get on with it then I think the teachers should too. At the end of the day being "safe" is impossible and if people want to hide in a bunker forever it is their choice but they should not get paid to do it. The Govt made its mistakes, now we all just have to get on with it as best we can whilst protecting the vulnerable in society as best we can.

 

Hospitals and care homes are absolutely essential things.    Schools are really important but not as essential as hospitals.    We will have to move out of lockdown but trying to do it while the reservoir of infection is still quite high and the test, trace and isolate system is nothing more than a promise is dumbfounding.

[vegas-voss]

19 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The snake Gove on the Marr show.    Hawking a load of utter shite about decisions that are indefensible.    Schools will be incredibly safe for teachers and if they catch covid,   they'll have caught it in the supermarket.    

Oh well that's all right.**** me where to even begin with that statement.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Teachers have no more right to be protected from covid than any other profession.

They are key workers with a role in child protection.

The kids are at very low risk from the infection.

Refusal to open schools has nothing to do with the risks to children, and that is what this should be about- the children.

 

We know how important schools are but there is not enough known re how children can spread the virus around.    The potential for supercharged infection transmission is there.    It should be done after the community infection levels have been driven down a bit more.    They need headroom to cope with a spike.    There is no headroom.

 

The other aspect is that the clamour to get schools back is a Trojan Horse.    It's all about paving the way for parents going back to work. 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

 

The kids are at very low risk from the infection.

they may well be, but they are supreme champions at spreading everything from the cold to head lice to chicken pox etc. 

 

Good for them, not good if you're the 50 year old teacher in a room with 30 5 year old biological bombs.