Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Lots of Gammonites at the protests today, unsurprisingly.

 

David Samson, 50, a finance worker, who attended the protests told the Press Association news agency:

“I never thought I’d see in my generation the suppressing of civil rights over a fake virus. This is nothing compared to what’s coming.”

 

62-year-old Catharine Harvey, said she was defying the rules to highlight the “devastation this lockdown has caused”.

The shop owner said: “Developing countries will have no trade, no tourism. I have had to close my shop on Columbia Road flower market."

 

These people have the vote

 

I think this one's judgement is compromised.    But there's no accounting for the other one's assertion of the virus being fake.    

 

Fake virus.    A heady mix of no self awareness and rancid sociopathy.

[Victorian]

Corbyn's brother arrested.   Also drooled about 5G linked to the virus.    Sturgeon described as a traitor in Glasgow.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

Corbyn's brother arrested.   Also drooled about 5G linked to the virus.    Sturgeon described as a traitor in Glasgow.

 

 

Big turnouts in Edinburgh and Glasgow 

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, weehammy said:

That’s only because of those white high heels.

Yeah that outfit was unusually mis matching. Love the signers too 😃

[Pasquale for King]

18 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Locked down too late and ignored care homes just like UK in general. People might also remember that the UK government financed a hugely expensive furlough scheme to save jobs.

Couldn’t have locked down any quicker as they don’t have the power. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The herd immunity theory is well established over centuries. Chris Whitty and Jason Leitch both publicly supported this plan before Ferguson revealed his customary cataclysmic forecast. Given how wrong he was with his modelling on Foot & Mouth, SARS and Swine Flu , I don't think he's worth listening to tbh. The Swedes ran his modelling and ditched it. They've subsequently been vindicated.  Tory bashing is far easier than looking at the facts though.

It is but you need to know if you can become immune and it appears a few folk have caught it twice. So you believe they should’ve let the virus run wild? Over run the NHS? The Swedes tried herd immunity and then ditched it, how is that being vindicated? Tory bashing us easy because they’re a bunch of incompetent useless ***** that only care about money.

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Scotland’s stats are nothing to celebrate, especially in care homes. But don’t let that get in the way of your political message.

Deaths in any country are nothing to celebrate, as I said up there Sturgeon makes mistakes and has the grace to admit it.

[Pasquale for King]

49 minutes ago, BudgeUp said:

The coronavirus, and Sturgeon's handling of it, will be the single biggest factor when we look back and wonder what changed and why people voted for independence. 

🤞🙏

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Why? I've put plenty of money into the system, and taken very little out, surely that entitles me to a vote?

That’s bailouts you’re thinking of.

[Francis Albert]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Couldn’t have locked down any quicker as they don’t have the power. 

When was the power transferred?

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It is but you need to know if you can become immune and it appears a few folk have caught it twice. So you believe they should’ve let the virus run wild? Over run the NHS? The Swedes tried herd immunity and then ditched it, how is that being vindicated? Tory bashing us easy because they’re a bunch of incompetent useless ***** that only care about money.

When did the Swedes change their policy of mild or very soft lockdown leaving bars and restaurants and schools etc open? I missed that news. 

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

When did the Swedes change their policy of mild or very soft lockdown leaving bars and restaurants and schools etc open? I missed that news. 

You’re right they’re only thinking about it because of higher death rates than Denmark and Norway,  those damned headlines. 
https://www.ft.com/content/22302f60-95fb-11ea-af4b-499244625ac4

[coconut doug]

48 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Locked down too late and ignored care homes just like UK in general. People might also remember that the UK government financed a hugely expensive furlough scheme to save jobs.

 

Scotland, if independent, like most other countries would most likely have produced a similar if not better scheme.

 

You seem to be suggesting that Scotland is not part of the UK and so not entitled to benefit from the furlough scheme. 

 

If we'd been independent we could have prepared more thoroughly, locked down more quickly, produced a more equable financial support and taken a different approach to tackling the virus. Our stats are almost as bad because we didn't have the guts to choose our own path. Had we done so the fall out would have been massive but the loss of life considerably smaller.

[Weakened Offender]

5 hours ago, jake said:

 

As for IVF as an example there is lots of moral and ethical issues surrounding that that's impossible for everyone to agree on.

 

 

 

Such as? 😊

[Pasquale for King]

32 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

When was the power transferred?

It wasn’t, the new laws were put in place, you know the three week ones that everyone talks about when you have to extend lockdown or ease it?

[Weakened Offender]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's like a cult. She can do no wrong. 

Fecking scary and weird 

 

Nothing ironic to see hear.... 😁

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The herd immunity theory is well established over centuries. Chris Whitty and Jason Leitch both publicly supported this plan before Ferguson revealed his customary cataclysmic forecast. Given how wrong he was with his modelling on Foot & Mouth, SARS and Swine Flu , I don't think he's worth listening to tbh. The Swedes ran his modelling and ditched it. They've subsequently been vindicated.  Tory bashing is far easier than looking at the facts though.

 

Fact: Sweden currently has the 8th highest death rate per capita in the world from Covid-19, the 6th if you discount San Marino and Andorra. Denmark and Germany have experienced a quarter of their mortality rate, while Finland has experienced about a seventh and Norway a ninth. I don't think that their strategy has been a resounding success.

 

Note: The above is not related to any argument about modelling or individuals. It's purely related to the fallacy that Sweden somehow have got things right.

 

All data from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ on 16 May 2020.

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

Locked down too late and ignored care homes just like UK in general. People might also remember that the UK government financed a hugely expensive furlough scheme to save jobs.

I am sure they will 

[Cade]

Indeed.

When you look at Sweden's performance on a per-capita basis and especially when compared to all the other northern European nations around them, they've handled this very poorly.

Most of Sweden's population have locked themselves down in the absence of government regulation.

Anybody actually thinking that Sweden are doing well is deluded.

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Indeed.

When you look at Sweden's performance on a per-capita basis and especially when compared to all the other northern European nations around them, they've handled this very poorly.

Most of Sweden's population have locked themselves down in the absence of government regulation.

Anybody actually thinking that Sweden are doing well is deluded.

Not as deluded as Prof Ferguson who forecast 40k deaths by 1st May in Sweden without lockdown. . Anyone who thinks govt policy and decision making is the only factor in analysing the number of deaths is deluded.  It's not as simple as looking at a league table. With 33% of the population in the UK obese, that has also proved to be a major factor here.

[jambogaza]

44 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Scotland, if independent, like most other countries would most likely have produced a similar if not better scheme.

 

You seem to be suggesting that Scotland is not part of the UK and so not entitled to benefit from the furlough scheme. 

 

If we'd been independent we could have prepared more thoroughly, locked down more quickly, produced a more equable financial support and taken a different approach to tackling the virus. Our stats are almost as bad because we didn't have the guts to choose our own path. Had we done so the fall out would have been massive but the loss of life considerably smaller.

 

Scotland would have done what every other country has done - borrow. Incidentally talk of deficit and debt seems rather hollow now given the astronomical levels that the UK is at now.

 

With that said, credit where credit is due - furlough has saved jobs. But the real impact will be seen from August onwards, and we'll likely get a first taste of how the UK government plans on picking up the pieces.

 

One thing is for sure, Holyrood will need to find its way out of the tight jacket it is in in order to resuscitate Scotland's economy. A start would be significant borrowing powers, something even the likes of Alastair Darling agrees

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

 

Scotland would have done what every other country has done - borrow. Incidentally talk of deficit and debt seems rather hollow now given the astronomical levels that the UK is at now.

 

With that said, credit where credit is due - furlough has saved jobs. But the real impact will be seen from August onwards, and we'll likely get a first taste of how the UK government plans on picking up the pieces.

 

One thing is for sure, Holyrood will need to find its way out of the tight jacket it is in in order to resuscitate Scotland's economy. A start would be significant borrowing powers, something even the likes of Alastair Darling agrees

You talk as if Scotland does not have any responsibility for debt and raises money from our own resources. Scotland wouldn't have survived this crisis without the UK furlough funding. As a country,  Scotland,  thankfully has been furloughed and it's a good job we are still part of the UK. We haven't even been able to take on the full suit of powers that we were awarded several years ago. Time for a bit of humility on the part of Sturgeon.

[Nucky Thompson]

2 hours ago, BudgeUp said:

The coronavirus, and Sturgeon's handling of it, will be the single biggest factor when we look back and wonder what changed and why people voted for independence. 

Dream on. Using the Scottish people as pawns in her political game against Westminster and flexing her devolved muscles.

Construction workers dying to get back to work using social distancing measuring like England.

Golfers playing in pairs like England, which is considered unsafe up here although the courses are full of groups of dog walkers, joggers and family playing sports.

The only people who can't see her playing games are her cult members.

She is committing political suicide 

[jambogaza]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You talk as if Scotland does not have any responsibility for debt and raises money from our own resources. Scotland wouldn't have survived this crisis without the UK furlough funding. As a country,  Scotland,  thankfully has been furloughed and it's a good job we are still part of the UK. We haven't even been able to take on the full suit of powers that we were awarded several years ago. Time for a bit of humility on the part of Sturgeon.

 

We'd accumulate debt like every other country. To suggest Scotland would have perished is hysterical. Do you know the UK paid off its ww2 debt just a few years ago? Thank God for the radical labour government that implemented what it did following ww2 - imagine austerity back then. 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

In keeping with lockdown I would appear the types that couldn't be arsed going to protest in Edinburgh or Glasgow have rocked up on here. 

A zoomer party if you like. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by The Mighty Thor

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

 

We'd accumulate debt like every other country. To suggest Scotland would have perished is hysterical. Do you know the UK paid off its ww2 debt just a few years ago? Thank God for the radical labour government that implemented what it did following ww2 - imagine austerity back then. 

 

Uk debt includes Scottish debt. Scotland has been good over many years at spending money without the responsibility of having to raise it. 

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

In keeping with lockdown I would appear the types that couldn't be arsed going to protest in Edinburgh or Glasgow have rocked up on here. 

A zoomer party if you like. 

What idiots would protest against lockdown? Right wing they said. Jeremy Corbyn's brother 

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Uk debt includes Scottish debt. Scotland has been good over many years at spending money without the responsibility of having to raise it. 

UK bad, Scotland good. Reminds me of the old English sports commentators who said the good Scottish sportsmen were British and the bad were Scottish. The Nats on here are getting just as bad as those English twat commentators 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

It wasn’t, the new laws were put in place, you know the three week ones that everyone talks about when you have to extend lockdown or ease it?

Ok. Before then the Scottish  Government was powerless to offer advice.

[Francis Albert]

55 minutes ago, Cade said:

Indeed.

When you look at Sweden's performance on a per-capita basis and especially when compared to all the other northern European nations around them, they've handled this very poorly.

Most of Sweden's population have locked themselves down in the absence of government regulation.

Anybody actually thinking that Sweden are doing well is deluded.

Why do you compare Sweden only with their near neighbours who in many ways are  more  different  than other countries like the UK France Italy and Spain or Belgium? Who have similar or greater levels of industrialisation and urbanisation for example. In a decade or more we may be able to judge Sweden taking account of the longer term efects of lockdown. 

 

 

[jambogaza]

21 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Uk debt includes Scottish debt. Scotland has been good over many years at spending money without the responsibility of having to raise it. 

 

Yes that's right, the money that comes out of our payslip at the end of each month rises from the sheet and evaporates into thin air. 

 

All the debt that is held has been created by the UK government, much of which Scotland has been paying interest on. Yet, despite that, we have no borrowing powers in our own right. The unitary state is dead.

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

47 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You talk as if Scotland does not have any responsibility for debt and raises money from our own resources. Scotland wouldn't have survived this crisis without the UK furlough funding. As a country,  Scotland,  thankfully has been furloughed and it's a good job we are still part of the UK. We haven't even been able to take on the full suit of powers that we were awarded several years ago. Time for a bit of humility on the part of Sturgeon.

Scotland can’t borrow money, it’s resources are pooled and we get back a fraction of that. Where do you think the money the UK has used has come from? Borrowing on a level unseen before, making an already huge debt even bigger. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, jambogaza said:

 

Yes that's right, the money that comes out of our payslip at the end of each month rises from the sheet and evaporates into thin air. 

 

All the debt that is held has been created by the UK government, much of which Scotland has been paying interest on. Yet, despite that, we have no borrowing powers in our own right. The unitary state is dead.

 

 

 

Where exactly do you think the £2k per head extra public spending in Scotland comes from?? That is over and above every penny we raise in tax. Of course we should pay the interest...we would be paying a hell of a lot more interest if independent. It still amazes me that large swathes of the population that vote SNP don't understand the economics

[Pasquale for King]

54 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Dream on. Using the Scottish people as pawns in her political game against Westminster and flexing her devolved muscles.

Construction workers dying to get back to work using social distancing measuring like England.

Golfers playing in pairs like England, which is considered unsafe up here although the courses are full of groups of dog walkers, joggers and family playing sports.

The only people who can't see her playing games are her cult members.

She is committing political suicide 

Can you provide any links, no pun intended, showing people using golf course in this manner. Most are private and inaccessible to the general public. Political suicide you say?

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/evening-tele-poll-indicates-96-of-scots-happy-with-coronavirus-lockdown-rules/

Edited May 16, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Scotland can’t borrow money, it’s resources are pooled and we get back a fraction of that. Where do you think the money the UK has used has come from? Borrowing on a level unseen before, making an already huge debt even bigger. 

The fraction being 130/100. Given our propensity for freebies, I'm thankful we don't have any borrowing powers.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Where exactly do you think the £2k per head extra public spending in Scotland comes from?? That is over and above every penny we raise in tax. Of course we should pay the interest...we would be paying a hell of a lot more interest if independent. It still amazes me that large swathes of the population that vote SNP don't understand the economics

https://www.businessforscotland.com/where-does-scotlands-wealth-go/

 

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/08/21/the-gers-data-is-ludicrous-scotland-does-not-generate-60-of-the-uks-net-fiscal-deficit/

https://sourcenews.scot/ben-wray-10-things-about-the-deficit-the-no-campaign-wont-tell-you/

 

[Pasquale for King]

30 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Ok. Before then the Scottish  Government was powerless to offer advice.

Advice is not a lockdown is it? You would’ve criticised them for locking down too early!!!

[Cade]

AS I've pointed out before, national governments cannot run out of money.

They can always borrow more from international lenders.

Or instead of that, they can simply print more and spin money out of thin air.

This then devalues the money in circulation and pushes up inflation.

Interest rates and taxation is then used to counter this effect.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

https://www.businessforscotland.com/where-does-scotlands-wealth-go/

 

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/08/21/the-gers-data-is-ludicrous-scotland-does-not-generate-60-of-the-uks-net-fiscal-deficit/

https://sourcenews.scot/ben-wray-10-things-about-the-deficit-the-no-campaign-wont-tell-you/

 

Seriously, you are attaching an article from 2015 with out of date figures that only cover one side of the equation....and by the discredited Gordon Macintyre- kemp too.  Have a look at the most recent GERS figures and come back if you disagree that Scotland raises LESS money per capita and receives MORE in public spending.  A union dividend of £2k per head.

[Weakened Offender]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

https://www.businessforscotland.com/where-does-scotlands-wealth-go/

 

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/08/21/the-gers-data-is-ludicrous-scotland-does-not-generate-60-of-the-uks-net-fiscal-deficit/

https://sourcenews.scot/ben-wray-10-things-about-the-deficit-the-no-campaign-wont-tell-you/

 

 

Facts are wasted on these plebs. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Weakened Offender said:

 

Facts are wasted on these plebs. 

😆Has anyone told you that you have a wonderful way with words, an excellent turn of phrase etc 👍🏽👏🏾.

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, Cade said:

AS I've pointed out before, national governments cannot run out of money.

They can always borrow more from international lenders.

Or instead of that, they can simply print more and spin money out of thin air.

This then devalues the money in circulation and pushes up inflation.

Interest rates and taxation is then used to counter this effect.

 

Basics, they’re not used to facts though.

[Pasquale for King]

34 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The fraction being 130/100. Given our propensity for freebies, I'm thankful we don't have any borrowing powers.

Not quite, Scotland’s contributions the UK treasury has far outweighed what it gets back. Imagine free prescriptions and bus passes for old folks, glad there’s a disease wiping them out though 👍🏽👏🏾. 

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Seriously, you are attaching an article from 2015 with out of date figures that only cover one side of the equation....and by the discredited Gordon Macintyre- kemp too.  Have a look at the most recent GERS figures and come back if you disagree that Scotland raises LESS money per capita and receives MORE in public spending.  A union dividend of £2k per head.

I could show you hundreds of them. Those were the first three. Most folk who know anything agree the Gers figures are an incomplete estimate that has no bearing on what an Independent Scotland would look like. You’re 2k per head is like most of what you say, absolute nonsense.

I know you hate folk called Craig but this guy is the exact opposite of ours.

https://thecommongreen.scot/2019/08/22/we-need-to-talk-about-gers-2018-19-edition/

[Francis Albert]

36 minutes ago, Cade said:

AS I've pointed out before, national governments cannot run out of money.

They can always borrow more from international lenders.

Or instead of that, they can simply print more and spin money out of thin air.

This then devalues the money in circulation and pushes up inflation.

Interest rates and taxation is then used to counter this effect.

 

All of those things have consequences which impact on peoples lives. Potentially disastrously.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Uk debt includes Scottish debt. Scotland has been good over many years at spending money without the responsibility of having to raise it. 

 

Shared debt is surely shared responsibilty, no?

The Union means that Scotland has been just at good as shouldering the responsibility of having to raise cash as the rest of the UK.

Enzo mate, there's plenty of good stuff you can chuck at the nationalists in your Tory crusade, but that was a swing a miss, buddy. 👎

I look forward to an improvement in your next few posts.

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

Anyhoo before the Mods tell us off. 
The British Medical Association has said it’s not safe to send kids back to school, surely that’s the end of that for now.

31 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

All of those things have consequences which impact on peoples lives. Potentially disastrously.

Ok last one. They have, where have you been the last ten years?  

[Cade]

WATCH OOT

THE REVOLUTION IS HERE

 

This is the full scale of the anti-lockdown protest in Edinburgh today.

What a riddy.

[132goals1958]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

AS I've pointed out before, national governments cannot run out of money.

They can always borrow more from international lenders.

Or instead of that, they can simply print more and spin money out of thin air.

This then devalues the money in circulation and pushes up inflation.

Interest rates and taxation is then used to counter this effect.

 

 

Classical Milton Friedman monetarism policy which overtook Keynesiasm . You could argue about it until the cows come home.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by 132goals1958

[Pasquale for King]

24 minutes ago, Cade said:

WATCH OOT

THE REVOLUTION IS HERE

 

This is the full scale of the anti-lockdown protest in Edinburgh today.

What a riddy.

15 people apparently.